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09-10-2009, 07:36 AM
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The Mouth
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4 questions I pose about Henrik Lundqvist

Ranger Crisis Radio tonight 9-11 PM EST w/ Rick Middleton who was dealt away in the worst trade in Ranger history bar none.

Tonight's Topic On Ranger Crisis Radio: 4 questions I pose about Henrik Lundqvist

1) Do you think Henrik is overworked ? If not why? And If so how many games would you like see him play this upcoming season in order to be more productive ?

2) Do you think Lundqvist experience winning a gold medal for Sweden factors into his ability to help the Rangers win a Stanley Cup ?

3) Henrik gets paid a ton of Cash almost 7 million per year, could the Rangers be better served with a 3 million dollar goalie and the 4 million spent elsewhere ?

4) Put the following Ranger goaltenders in order on pure ability. Give brief explanations why ?

Mike Richter
John Vanbiesbrouck
Henrik Lundqvist

Same deal as Last week i will be reading the answers left here on this Thread. All HF posters who answer all four questions will have their nickname announced and their HF board representation shouted from the mountain tops ! Or you can do it the old fashion way just call in and tell us !

Thanks.

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09-10-2009, 08:02 AM
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FromTheSide
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World class goalies don't come cheap.Even a standard "elite" goalie would look for AT LEAST 5mill in a long term contract.

Who would you sign for 3mill? jose theodore?

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09-10-2009, 08:19 AM
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gmsniper
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I'm bored at work so I will give out my opinions on the questions proposed.

1. In non olympic years I don't feel the Henrik is over worked. He has openly stated that he wants to play as many games as possible. This being a season with olypmics it will be interesting how it all pans out. During his rookie season he played the olympics and it clearly hurt him. He was tired and injured by the time the playoffs rolled around. I think he is in better condition to handle the extra games. Another factor is that he wants to win 40 games. Most people would agree getting 40 wins goes big time into factoring in for the Vezina. He wants to play the olympics and win 40, I think it is up to him how he handles that. I don't think he would be able to pull off both in the same season, but that would be some feat! I think he should play 70 games exactly.

2. I think winning the gold definantly taught him to be composed in the big game situations. There is no way it could hurt.

3. No Henrik is worth every penny of his contract. How many perrenial Vezenia finalist are there in the league? Henrik has the ability to keep us in games by himself, most goalies can't and 4 mill spread around won't keep us in games like Henrik can.

4.Richter, Henrik, Vanbeisbrouck. Richter is still the goalie all Rangers goalies will have to look up to. He won the cup, medals at the olympics, Rangers record holder, the man has it all. No one will forget his splits to stop Bure in the finals always the quickest post to post had a good glove. Henrik has had great success Henrik has tremendous athletic ability put with his glove being his weakest ability and clearly exploited he has to be ranked 2. Vanbeisbrouck was before my time when he was with the Rangers.

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09-10-2009, 08:59 AM
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DontStepanMe
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1) Do you think Henrik is overworked ? If not why? And If so how many games would you like see him play this upcoming season in order to be more productive ?

yes. I think under a normal season he should see only 65 games, and rarely should be used on back to back nights if ever at all. However this season with the condensed schedule I would not want him to play in over 60 games. It is especially important to not overwork him in the beginning months of october and november so we could potentially avoid is annual mid season slump.

2) Do you think Lundqvist experience winning a gold medal for Sweden factors into his ability to help the Rangers win a Stanley Cup ?

maybe... I'm not really sure how much if at all it will. Yes experience under pressure is good, but at the same time you still need a good team around you, and you still have to make the saves. you either have it in you to win the game and make the save or you don't.

3) Henrik gets paid a ton of Cash almost 7 million per year, could the Rangers be better served with a 3 million dollar goalie and the 4 million spent elsewhere ?

Absolutely. Henrik gets paid by himself more, than some teams two goalies combined. Absolutely ridiculous. A goalie is a product of his team, you can always make a goalie look better or worse than he really is by fielding a team in front. That said Hank is a great natural goalie, with absolutely remarkable pure abilities. But when all is said and done, this team would be much better off if hank had a Brodeur or nabakov type deal. I just don't believe that ANY goalie should make over $5mil per season. The money should be allocated better to create a more efficient team.

Look at the goalies in the past 4 cups. None of them were very high paid goalies at the time. All the money went into the players surrounding them.

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09-10-2009, 09:10 AM
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Lundqvist, Giacomin, Richter.

While Lundy is no magician with the puck on his stick, Richter was one of the worst I ever saw, which led to countless whistles in his own end. Still an excellent NHL goaltender on reflexes alone but Lundqvist has a chance to be an All-timer of the NHL.

Winning a Cup is not a fair indicator of the worth of a goaltender. If it were, Osgood would be one of the greatest ever and he is an ordinary goaltender. When you look at the list of goalies who have won a Cup, a lot of those goalies are good but far from great. Richter won because of who was in front of him, not the other way around.

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09-10-2009, 09:19 AM
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1) Only by a small amount. He has shown over his career that he is human, and even a little fragile by goaltender standards. So if we could get a better Henrik by playing him only 60 games a season, im all for it.

2) It certainly shows that he is not a choker. While the Stanley Cup playoffs and Olympics are very different, it speaks to Lundqvist's mental state that he did not choke and played very well in the goal-medal game.

3) Not considering how we have spent 4 million dollar chunks of cash since the lockout, no. That gets us what, maybe a 20 goal 50 point player? And we end up with some 1B scrub for 3 mil like Kevin Weekes. I'll take Hank.

4) Richter, Henrik, Beezer. Henrik has a long way to go before becoming in Richter's class. Im not saying he isnt as good a goalie, but he;s only 4 seasons into his career.

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09-10-2009, 09:52 AM
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reading the comments for question #4, it seems like alot of people are going by what they have accomplished.

the question asks: In terms of pure skill. This has nothing to do about what championships they have one... this just asks which people think had the most skill.

people really need to differentiate that.

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09-10-2009, 09:52 AM
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1)Too many by like 5 games, or 1 game a month. With the Olympics this season I would give him more rest but not a ton more. I don't think his play drops off from physical exhaustion and I'm not around him to make a claim that mental exhaustion is an issue. His skids are in December, then usually returns to stellar play in the last third of the season... hardly evidence of exhaustion.

2)I'm sure it was valuable experience. Basically I wouldn't discount it or overrate it. It was a confidence builder and a lesson in preparing for big games.

3)He's worth it. We win because of him, period. 4 straight playoffs, Lundqvist is the main reason each and every year. Maybe we can add a great piece with the extra $4m, but a $3m goalie is way too much of a gamble. I'm thinking of Theodore and the Caps, and he gets more than $3m.

4)Richter, Lundqvist, VBK. VBK was a solid, solid technical goalie. Always in the right place and the puck always hit him square in the chest, no rebound. He relied on positioning.

Lundqvist blends his natural abilities with a sound positional game. He plays deep because of his size and amazing leg game. He is usually in position and works on increasing his chances of making the first save... very good with rebounds when he's on his game.

Richter relied on his athletic ability the most, not to knock his technical game. But let's face it, he wouldn't have made so many acrobatic saves if his butt was in the right place. But on level of pure ability and talent, Richter has proven more so far and his highlight reel is more impressive.

I don't think ability/talent is the end all-be all in determining a goalie's worth, all three here have accomplished great things with different levels of talent, training and technique.

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09-10-2009, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Winning a Cup is not a fair indicator of the worth of a goaltender. If it were, Osgood would be one of the greatest ever and he is an ordinary goaltender. When you look at the list of goalies who have won a Cup, a lot of those goalies are good but far from great. Richter won because of who was in front of him, not the other way around.
You mean Dubinsky is not Messier, Redden is not Zubov, Staal is not Leetch, and Zherdev is not Kovalev? Why I never!

Seriously though, I think Hank is overworked by maybe about 5 games a season. I don't know if he still has knee problems, but it can't hurt to rest him a little more. On the other hand, down the stretch we almost always end up having to play him because of where we're at in the standings.

Also, I might take a 3 million dollar goalie over him if he had Detroit's roster... but we don't.

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09-10-2009, 10:08 AM
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WhipNash27
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Lundqvist should be playing high 60s, not 70+, especially with the amount of work he gets. Wasn't there a thing that said the he made the most quality saves in the league last year?

Winning big games is always important. Makes you more comfortable when you face similar situations in the future.

Franchise goalies don't come very often. They say you build from the net out. The money spent on Lundqvist was well spent. Just be glad he didn't sign a 15 year contract...

Lundqvist, Richter, Beezer. I think Lundqvist is more talented and has the potential to accomplish more than Richter. However, if that happens remains to be seen.


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09-10-2009, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by The Mouth View Post
Ranger Crisis Radio tonight 9-11 PM EST w/ Rick Middleton who was dealt away in the worst trade in Ranger history bar none.

Tonight's Topic On Ranger Crisis Radio: 4 questions I pose about Henrik Lundqvist

Quote:
1) Do you think Henrik is overworked ? If not why? And If so how many games would you like see him play this upcoming season in order to be more productive ?
No. I don't think he's overworked. He played great and stole Weeeks's job. After winning the Gold Medal his rookie year, I think psychologically he was a bit "burnt out." That cannot happen this year. We're not winning the Stanley Cup without "Hank." I'm not sure exactly how many games he should play before the Olympics. But I do think Vally is should play more games just to be safe. And imo, for obvious reasons, Vally's workload should become heavier as the Olympics are approaching.

Quote:
2) Do you think Lundqvist experience winning a gold medal for Sweden factors into his ability to help the Rangers win a Stanley Cup ?
No because he's playing under a different head coach and with a different team completely. The experience he gains from the playoffs factors in much more than the Olympic games. IMO, the Stanley Cup is much harder to win.

Quote:
3) Henrik gets paid a ton of Cash almost 7 million per year, could the Rangers be better served with a 3 million dollar goalie and the 4 million spent elsewhere ?
I
MO, Goaltending is the most important position in the game. To me. That's the difference between Washington and Pittsburgh. The latter has the better goaltending in Fleury. We stole one of the best goal tenders in the NHL in the later rounds. Lundqvist is still this team's biggest Super Star. He's worth every cent.

Quote:
4) Put the following Ranger goaltenders in order on pure ability. Give brief explanations why ?

Mike Richter
John Vanbiesbrouck
Henrik Lundqvist
Mike Richter was much more of an "ole fashion stand up goalie" type. Henrik Lundqvist plays a different style (the "butterfly). But I think both goalies are also capable of playing "hybrid." A style which made Martin Brodeur so successful.

Richter preferred to stray away from his net a bit more and come out to challenge the shooter. This was to cut off angles and give the shooter less net to look at.

I love both goaltenders and would build a team around either one. I'm going to give the edge to Lundqvist though. I'm taking into account that Richter played with teams in the early to mid/late 90's who were Stanley Cup Caliber teams (for the most part) and did win one in 94'. Also what Richter had, and Lundqvist does not (just yet but Staal is getting there) was a wall in front of the net in Jeff Beukeboom and he was a big (no pun intended) piece of the puzzle during that Cup year. Beukeboom also dropped the gloves, which was a bonus. He played along side and protected one of the greatest offensive defense men in the game (something else Lundqvist doesn't have) in Brian Leetch. "Beuk" also gave Leetch the freedom to carry the puck up the ice because he was strictly stay at home.

Mike Richter played on better teams (and of course, he was part of the reason why they were so good) but i have no doubt Lundqvist would have been able to mind the net during the 93'-94' season with the Rangers getting the same result.

I put Vanbiesbrouk last but he was far from a slouch. He won a Vezina trophy just before Patrik Roy came on the seen so that was some good timing. He and Richter were the perfect one-two punch in net for the Rangers in 91'-92'.

The only reason why the Rangers did not win the Cup that year was because of the "immortal" Mario Lemieux.

Twenty years earlier we had Ed Giacomin and Gilles Villemure which was again, a tremendous one-two punch in net. The only reason why the Rangers did not win the Cup that year was because of the "immortal Bobby Orr."

i know that's off topic a bit but that's amazing to me. The Rangers easily could have won another two Stanley Cups. And I think both of those teams were > than the 1994 Cup team. But twice the Rangers were stopped by arguably 2 of the 3 greatest players to ever play the game. That's some tough luck. Or a Curse

But I have Vanbiesbrouk 3rd because I think Lundqvist and Richter are/were more consistant. And not even from game to game. I'm talking about within a game. The "Beezer" was the kind of goalie that could drive you nuts. He would make one tremendous save and a few minutes later, let in a "softee."

But he still was a terrific goal tender in his own right and had his greatest season in 95'-96' when he lead the Florida Panthers to an Eastern Conference Championship. The Av's beat them for the Cup.

So my order is from best to least best:[LIST=1]
Henrik Lundqvist
Mike Richter (who stole Vanbiesbrouk's job)
John Vanbiesbrouk







Same deal as Last week i will be reading the answers left here on this Thread. All HF posters who answer all four questions will have their nickname announced and their HF board representation shouted from the mountain tops ! Or you can do it the old fashion way just call in and tell us !

Thanks.
Mouth. Can you let us know again when that new book comes out and will be available in stores. I'm talking about "the Rangers-100 greatest players."


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Old
09-10-2009, 10:23 AM
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1)At his age, he's fine, let the young stud run, thats why he gets the big bucks.

2)Gold medal & his Swedish championship tells you alot about his ability, focus and competitive drive, all pluses in my book.

3)Look at the Flyers playing it cheap with their goalies the last 15 years, hows that workin for them?

4)Lundqvist, Richter, Vanbies. Richter and Vanbies both gave the team the chance to win almost every night. Henke was the first NYR goalie I felt could win games on his own, dominating.

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09-10-2009, 10:24 AM
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Mouth, I have some work to do this evening, but I will try to call in again. If not, I'll post my response in here. I'll be listening either way.

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09-10-2009, 10:28 AM
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gravytrain6t
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ooops. sorry for the posting error.

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09-10-2009, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mouth View Post
Ranger Crisis Radio tonight 9-11 PM EST w/ Rick Middleton who was dealt away in the worst trade in Ranger history bar none.

Tonight's Topic On Ranger Crisis Radio: 4 questions I pose about Henrik Lundqvist

1) Do you think Henrik is overworked ? If not why? And If so how many games would you like see him play this upcoming season in order to be more productive ?

2) Do you think Lundqvist experience winning a gold medal for Sweden factors into his ability to help the Rangers win a Stanley Cup ?

3) Henrik gets paid a ton of Cash almost 7 million per year, could the Rangers be better served with a 3 million dollar goalie and the 4 million spent elsewhere ?

4) Put the following Ranger goaltenders in order on pure ability. Give brief explanations why ?

Mike Richter
John Vanbiesbrouck
Henrik Lundqvist

Same deal as Last week i will be reading the answers left here on this Thread. All HF posters who answer all four questions will have their nickname announced and their HF board representation shouted from the mountain tops ! Or you can do it the old fashion way just call in and tell us !

Thanks.
1. I think he might be slightly overworked, however at the same time I think he is fully capable of handling it. I think he has a great ability, whether fatigued or not to step up his game come playoff time, an attribute off all great goalies. I think they should keep him to around 65 games so they can maximize him becuase he always kind of starts off slowly and come December and January is when he becomes the same goalie we've come to know.

2. I think it does help that Henrik has won a gold medal. I mean think about it, especially as a goalie, you have the weight of the country on your shoulders. I think being able to go into that pressure, cope with it, and come out on top can do wonders for his confidence in big games. It also is a plus he played in many championship games with the Swedish Elite League Team he was on, Florunda.

3. No, I think he is worth every cent. To be a Championship caliber team, and to have won them in the past, you need a great goalie. Look at the Devils with Brodeur, Anahiem with Giguere, Pittsburgh with Fleury, Detriot with Osgood. I mean those are all quality goalies, and you always need a guy you can got to in the clutch that will make a big save when needed, or when your team has trouble scoring he can kick up his game and shut the other team down.

4. Highest to Lowest- Lundqvist, because he is one of the quickest I've seen go from post to post, and he is extremely athletic so he can make the great saves when out of position. Richter, becuase he too had the same abilities, but just not as well as Lundqvist, and you have to think of the era they were in, goalies now a days just have so much more flexibility; and both can make clutch saves. Lastly, Vanbiebrouck, mainly becuase I was too young to watch him play , but it's hard to imagine many old school goalies that had much more pure abilities and agility than the goalies of today's NHL.

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09-10-2009, 10:43 AM
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I will save my answers for my call this will get people talking

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09-10-2009, 10:44 AM
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In an interview with THN Ken Holland said that one of the main differences between the way he builds his team and the way others do it is that he'll sink about 3 million into goaltending and allocate the rest of the money elsewhere.

But that's Ken Holland and the Red Wings.

Lundqvist is the only thing seperating this team from the bottom of the conference. He more than earns every cent that he is paid. He's the reason why all the advocates of the "Rangers should tank for three or four seasons and stockpile high draft picks" strategy aren't living in reality.

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09-10-2009, 11:46 AM
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I will save my answers for my call this will get people talking
Haaaa I can't wait.

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09-10-2009, 12:02 PM
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For questions #4 - Lundqvist, Richter, Beezer

I grew up watching Beezer and had a Vanbiesbrouck poster on my wall when I was 7 or 8. He was a very good goaltender, but not on the same level as the other 2.

Richter was awesome...he had a very exciting style and was one of the best big-game goaltenders I'd ever seen. Forget about 1994 for a minute, his performance in the 1996 World Cup of Hockey was beyond amazing.

But with that said, Lundqvist is the best of the bunch in terms of ability. Hes like a machine, a polar opposite of Richter's acrobatic style. I think that makes him a bit more consistent. Hopefully one day Lundqvist adds that Stanley Cup ring, but thats really a team-wide accomplishment. From a pure goaltending standpoint, if he remains healthy, Lundqvist will go down as the best Ranger netminder ever.

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09-10-2009, 12:13 PM
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Mouth. Can you let us know again when that new book comes out and will be available in stores. I'm talking about "the Rangers-100 greatest players."

100 Ranger Greats will be released September 28. I've gotten an advanced copy and it is awesome. The photos are phenomenal, especially the older ones. I think it's a must have for a Ranger fan who is into the history of the team.

Thanks to all who have answered the four questions, keep em coming !


Thanks

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09-10-2009, 12:14 PM
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But with that said, Lundqvist is the best of the bunch in terms of ability. Hes like a machine, a polar opposite of Richter's acrobatic style. I think that makes him a bit more consistent. Hopefully one day Lundqvist adds that Stanley Cup ring, but thats really a team-wide accomplishment. From a pure goaltending standpoint, if he remains healthy, Lundqvist will go down as the best Ranger netminder ever.
This seems like a given, to me. In terms of raw talent, Lundqvist is definitely #1. If he had a team that was as stacked as the '94 team, we'd already have a post-lockout Cup.

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09-10-2009, 01:10 PM
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I am a first time poster here....when i read the replies to #4 i felt like i needed to chip in.

To the people that are saying that Richter had this great team in front of him...yes, in 1994 he did but in all the 14 or some odd years that he was with the Rangers, that was the ONLY year he had a good team in front of him. Richter was left out to dry so much more than any Ranger goalie it is ridiculous. Plus, when he was playing most teams were not playing the defensive game they are playing now so there were much more odd man rushes and offensive threats. Also, jump to 1997 where Richter carried that team through the regular season and the playoffs, (with the exception of only Gretzky). I can't believe that some people are saying that Lundqvist should already be ranked higher than Richter. Lundqivst hasn't proven anything yet. He has shown unbelievable skill that drops my jaw sometimes, but the fact that he can never be consistent with it is a big problem.
I love Lundqvist and I hope he can surpass Richter one day but to say that now, i think is way off base.

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09-10-2009, 01:21 PM
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Waiting for Lundqvist's Girl's reply.

By the way, my memory of Richter, remembers him being wildly inconsistent, in my opinion, far more so than Hank.

No one thinks Richter wasn't a very good goalie. Some of us just feel that Lundqvist is a special goaltender and the question wasn't in regards to their career accomplishments.

As to Richter performing in front of poor squads, they were more gifted than what Hank has had in front of him so far.

Anyone who knows the way I usually post, knows that I am an unduly harsh critic of players in general but Lundqvist is one of the most special goaltenders I have ever seen. He is not Hasek but he is operating on a higher plane than most.


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09-10-2009, 01:38 PM
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Lundqvisnt should not be ranked above Richter, or Giacomin, etc...but he will be when all things are finished. Odds are he will hold just about every statistical record for a goalie by the Rangers, which is remarkable...but he needs to stay healthy, and he probably needs to win a cup or 2.

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09-10-2009, 01:45 PM
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Inferno, i completely agree with you. Barring something awful happening to him i'm sure he will surpass Richter...etc.

But i have to disagree that Richter had better teams in front of him then Lundqvist has the past few years. In the early 2000's, the Rangers were the worst group of players i have ever seen, at least the past few years they have had actual chances to get somewhere and they had heart. Go back and watch some of the games from late 90's or early 2000's if you want to see some terrible teams.

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