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Ottawa - Philly

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Old
08-01-2009, 07:59 PM
  #51
phlocky
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Originally Posted by Kaleta36 View Post
This actually isn't that bad. Philly would probably have to add something else (2010 2nd rounder possibly) for Ottawa to take back Briere, but JVR has Heatley-type potential and could fill that role sooner rather than later. This deal would make Philly's top 6 so scary, and they parlay Briere into one of the top wingers in the game, though he certainly has his issues. I still don't think Ottawa would do it because Briere makes very little sense for them, but JVR is an attractive piece.
if that is true then why does Philly do this deal??? Briere is still a pretty damned good player and his contract isn't nearly as bad as everyone on HF makes it out to be. You do realize that the Flyers were 4th in the league in scoring last year and that was without Briere for almost the entire season and Giroux playing only half the year (and really only having the restraints taken off for the last 25 games or so). They can MORE than make up for the 52 goals that we lost with Knuble and Lupul leaving. The year before we were 6th in the leavue in scoring and that was with our #1 scoring winger, Simon Gagne being out for almost the entire season.

Scoring isn't a problem for the Flyers. We don't NEED Heatley, that's the point. Would he be an upgrade of Briere, certainly. However the flyers don't NEED Heatley to be legit cup contenders, we are right now without him. We've sold enough of our future to win now, there is no reason to trade JVR for player that is NOT going to be the player that puts us over the top.

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Old
08-01-2009, 09:16 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil Patrick Harris View Post
I'd rather have Heatley. The guy who has a decent contract and puts up great numbers.
Ottawa doesn't really have a choice. Heatley asked for a trade. Do you really think he's going to put up great numbers on a team he doesn't want to play for?

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Old
08-02-2009, 01:14 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by LEIFey View Post
Ottawa doesn't really have a choice. Heatley asked for a trade. Do you really think he's going to put up great numbers on a team he doesn't want to play for?
We saw Yashin do it, after holding out and being forced to play while being booed constantly.

And although Heatley spot on team Canada is somewhat secure he will have to play well to solidify his stance

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Old
08-02-2009, 01:46 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
if that is true then why does Philly do this deal??? Briere is still a pretty damned good player and his contract isn't nearly as bad as everyone on HF makes it out to be. You do realize that the Flyers were 4th in the league in scoring last year and that was without Briere for almost the entire season and Giroux playing only half the year (and really only having the restraints taken off for the last 25 games or so). They can MORE than make up for the 52 goals that we lost with Knuble and Lupul leaving. The year before we were 6th in the leavue in scoring and that was with our #1 scoring winger, Simon Gagne being out for almost the entire season.

Scoring isn't a problem for the Flyers. We don't NEED Heatley, that's the point. Would he be an upgrade of Briere, certainly. However the flyers don't NEED Heatley to be legit cup contenders, we are right now without him. We've sold enough of our future to win now, there is no reason to trade JVR for player that is NOT going to be the player that puts us over the top.
Sorry, as a Flyers fan I must respectfully disagree. You are right in saying that briere's contract isn't as bad as everyone says it is, and that JVR has massive potential. That being said, if Brian Murray offered us Heatley, I would pack both their bags. Heatley is the type of pure talent that you work to get. As for his character, he asked for a trade...big deal! The guy wants a chance to win with a new team, its not like this has never happened before (and before you blame Heatley for going public, with a deadline like his 4-mil bonus presented, this deal would have been public in two seconds flat).

From a Flyers perspective, such a trade would allow us to fully transition to two top scoring lines, a gritty line, and a checking line instead of the mess that there is right now (Don't tell me I'm wrong on this one....if you can come up with a coherent set of lines, I'll be surprised...and yes, that means a line of lappy-briere-giroux makes zero sense to me, or sticking lappy up with richards and gagne.) A top six of Gagne-Richards-Heatley and Hartnell-Carter-Giroux would scare the pants off any team...let the energy and grinders work themselves out into whatever lineup works. If Danny boy stays with this team, he should be paired with giroux, but then that leaves us with three question marks in our lineup (namely RW for Gagne-Cannon, RW for Harts-Carter and LW for Giroux-Briere). Trading Briere would answer all those questions for us and get us a premiere (true) winger in this league. Sadly, this will never happen as Brian Murray will want far more than Briere/JVR. Even if we threw in Randy Jones, this would never work....

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Old
08-02-2009, 01:52 AM
  #55
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Good deal for Ottawa, not so much for Philly.

Briere is still a 70-75 point theat when healthy and has better all around game than Heatley, is cheaper than him, and JVR's got insane potential. Ottawa's top 6 for 2010-2011 could be

Fisher Spezza Alfredsson
JVR Briere Kovalev

Which is just insane. Plus one of the best young defensive cores in the league.

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Old
08-02-2009, 02:17 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by VanFan101 View Post
My couch is always telling me to sit down and chill out. I don't know why Heatley has such a problem with his. They're pretty easy to get along with I find...
This couch is pretty welcoming

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Old
08-02-2009, 03:15 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by flyersfan75 View Post
Sorry, as a Flyers fan I must respectfully disagree. You are right in saying that briere's contract isn't as bad as everyone says it is, and that JVR has massive potential. That being said, if Brian Murray offered us Heatley, I would pack both their bags. Heatley is the type of pure talent that you work to get. As for his character, he asked for a trade...big deal! The guy wants a chance to win with a new team, its not like this has never happened before (and before you blame Heatley for going public, with a deadline like his 4-mil bonus presented, this deal would have been public in two seconds flat).

From a Flyers perspective, such a trade would allow us to fully transition to two top scoring lines, a gritty line, and a checking line instead of the mess that there is right now (Don't tell me I'm wrong on this one....if you can come up with a coherent set of lines, I'll be surprised...and yes, that means a line of lappy-briere-giroux makes zero sense to me, or sticking lappy up with richards and gagne.) A top six of Gagne-Richards-Heatley and Hartnell-Carter-Giroux would scare the pants off any team...let the energy and grinders work themselves out into whatever lineup works. If Danny boy stays with this team, he should be paired with giroux, but then that leaves us with three question marks in our lineup (namely RW for Gagne-Cannon, RW for Harts-Carter and LW for Giroux-Briere). Trading Briere would answer all those questions for us and get us a premiere (true) winger in this league. Sadly, this will never happen as Brian Murray will want far more than Briere/JVR. Even if we threw in Randy Jones, this would never work....

I have to disagree with your assessment. Briere is basically a hometown boy for Ottawa, and JVR is one of the best prospects in the game. Also, doesn't this work?

Gagne-Richards-Briere
Hartnell-Carter-Giroux


We have a ton of bottom 6 guys who will be playing for jobs. Also, one of Carle or Jones could be moved and another forward brought in (Bertuzzi, Bonk, Malhotra, Afinogenov, whomever).

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Old
08-02-2009, 03:29 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by flyersfan75 View Post
Sorry, as a Flyers fan I must respectfully disagree. You are right in saying that briere's contract isn't as bad as everyone says it is, and that JVR has massive potential. That being said, if Brian Murray offered us Heatley, I would pack both their bags. Heatley is the type of pure talent that you work to get. As for his character, he asked for a trade...big deal! The guy wants a chance to win with a new team, its not like this has never happened before (and before you blame Heatley for going public, with a deadline like his 4-mil bonus presented, this deal would have been public in two seconds flat).

From a Flyers perspective, such a trade would allow us to fully transition to two top scoring lines, a gritty line, and a checking line instead of the mess that there is right now (Don't tell me I'm wrong on this one....if you can come up with a coherent set of lines, I'll be surprised...and yes, that means a line of lappy-briere-giroux makes zero sense to me, or sticking lappy up with richards and gagne.) A top six of Gagne-Richards-Heatley and Hartnell-Carter-Giroux would scare the pants off any team...let the energy and grinders work themselves out into whatever lineup works. If Danny boy stays with this team, he should be paired with giroux, but then that leaves us with three question marks in our lineup (namely RW for Gagne-Cannon, RW for Harts-Carter and LW for Giroux-Briere). Trading Briere would answer all those questions for us and get us a premiere (true) winger in this league. Sadly, this will never happen as Brian Murray will want far more than Briere/JVR. Even if we threw in Randy Jones, this would never work....
Why shouldn't I tell you that you are wrong, because you ARE wrong, dead wrong. I've said this so many times I feel like I'm talking to 3-year olds who can't remember things from one day to the next.

You want 2 line with Richards and Carter being our top 2 lines??? FINE, then you are going withjust once scoring line. How many times do I have to tell you, RICHARDS LINE IS NOT A SCORING LINE!!!!!! Get that through your thick skull. His line is a shut down line that plays a good 2-way game.

You say that you want 2 goal scorers and that we don't have the man-power to field 2 scoring lines now??? Then why the hell would you want to take 2 scorers and trade them for just one scorer???

Briere + JVR > Heatley. I think that most people would agree that Pronger is better, more vaualbe, more of an impact player, and has a bigger impact in winning a cup than Heatley does. If Holmgren wouldn't trade Anaheim JVR to get Pronger I think it's safe to say that he won't trade JVR to get Heatley. It would seem to me that the one person in all of this who actually matters seems to believe that JVR is going to be exceptional and that he's untouchable even for someone like Pronger or Heatley.

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Old
08-02-2009, 09:02 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
Heatley is also 2 mil more. The Flyers pass n this deal without even thinking twice. Ottowa may not want Briere but we DO. We DON'T want Heatley because we have a much much better team without him.
LOLZZZZ Briere didn't even really play last season, and you say Heatley wouldn't help. bahahahah and like always you are over valuing JVR http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...php?pid=105417 Garbage as a Phantom, just barely a PPG player with NH (LOL) we have just as good if not better NCAA prsopects in our system (See 3 of the top 6 Hobey baker finalists) Caporusso, Condra and Wiercioch..

How did Pronger come into this conversation.. wow you are digging

Thanks for comign out though,.

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Old
08-02-2009, 09:37 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Kaleta36 View Post
This actually isn't that bad. Philly would probably have to add something else (2010 2nd rounder possibly) for Ottawa to take back Briere, but JVR has Heatley-type potential and could fill that role sooner rather than later. This deal would make Philly's top 6 so scary, and they parlay Briere into one of the top wingers in the game, though he certainly has his issues. I still don't think Ottawa would do it because Briere makes very little sense for them, but JVR is an attractive piece.
It amaze me how everytime there is a Heatley proposal, other teams fans always say no THX like they get fleeced in every deal. At 1 point, i was proposing like Heatley + Schubert for Cheechoo + Ehrhoff + Murray (a couple weeks before the rumour) and most Sharks fans still didn't like it. Gosh, that's Ehrhof and 2 guys who looks overpaid for a league-wide top-3 goal scorer in the last 4 seasons, right there with Ovechkin and Kovalchuk...

I understand that Heatley has a bad reputation actually but it doesn't change the fact that he is a lethal threat on the ice. There was absolutely no problem with him in the last 4 seasons. He was a key player that made Ottawa a very dangerous team (except last season). If he is happy, he's not complaining and all he do is score goals (and assists).

I'm sure Flyers management would seriously think about a Heatley + Zubov for Briere + JVR. Only 1 million in difference between the 2. Actually, i'm not even sure Ottawa would do that. Briere's contract doesn't look attractive actually, less than Heatley's at least...

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Spanky View Post
I hope so too, but you have to be realistic. The chances of Heatley apologizing seem very slim to me.
Don't worry i'm a realist, i know the chance that Heatley is coming back is very slim (i'd say 2%) and i know that considering the situation (Heatley hurted his value himself by asking a trade publicly), it is impossible to have fair value for him in a trade. Then, a Cogliano-Penner-Smid ain't that bad. If it can just have slightly better value (i'd say 15-20% more value) i would be fine with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan75 View Post
Sorry, as a Flyers fan I must respectfully disagree. You are right in saying that briere's contract isn't as bad as everyone says it is, and that JVR has massive potential. That being said, if Brian Murray offered us Heatley, I would pack both their bags. Heatley is the type of pure talent that you work to get. As for his character, he asked for a trade...big deal! The guy wants a chance to win with a new team, its not like this has never happened before (and before you blame Heatley for going public, with a deadline like his 4-mil bonus presented, this deal would have been public in two seconds flat)...
Good post. Yes Heatley asked for a trade but it's not that big of a deal like people makes it out to be. It sucks FOR THE SENS because he signed a long-term extension not long ago. He is a quitter for THIS team, he abandon the ship because he doesn't like what is going on (particulary his new boss Clouston)...

I totally disagree with Heatley and but put yourself in his shoes. If there are changes at the company you work for and things weren't going well in the last 2 years, AND it happens that you don't like your new boss (Clouston in this case) and don't share his philosophy and direction, you'd probably want to find another job. I know i would.

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Old
08-02-2009, 11:37 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by flyersfan75 View Post
Sorry, as a Flyers fan I must respectfully disagree. You are right in saying that briere's contract isn't as bad as everyone says it is, and that JVR has massive potential. That being said, if Brian Murray offered us Heatley, I would pack both their bags. Heatley is the type of pure talent that you work to get. As for his character, he asked for a trade...big deal! The guy wants a chance to win with a new team, its not like this has never happened before (and before you blame Heatley for going public, with a deadline like his 4-mil bonus presented, this deal would have been public in two seconds flat).

From a Flyers perspective, such a trade would allow us to fully transition to two top scoring lines, a gritty line, and a checking line instead of the mess that there is right now (Don't tell me I'm wrong on this one....if you can come up with a coherent set of lines, I'll be surprised...and yes, that means a line of lappy-briere-giroux makes zero sense to me, or sticking lappy up with richards and gagne.) A top six of Gagne-Richards-Heatley and Hartnell-Carter-Giroux would scare the pants off any team...let the energy and grinders work themselves out into whatever lineup works. If Danny boy stays with this team, he should be paired with giroux, but then that leaves us with three question marks in our lineup (namely RW for Gagne-Cannon, RW for Harts-Carter and LW for Giroux-Briere). Trading Briere would answer all those questions for us and get us a premiere (true) winger in this league. Sadly, this will never happen as Brian Murray will want far more than Briere/JVR. Even if we threw in Randy Jones, this would never work....
briere is an rw u know, as a true flyers fan, u should know that by now...

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08-02-2009, 11:41 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
Why shouldn't I tell you that you are wrong, because you ARE wrong, dead wrong. I've said this so many times I feel like I'm talking to 3-year olds who can't remember things from one day to the next.

You want 2 line with Richards and Carter being our top 2 lines??? FINE, then you are going withjust once scoring line. How many times do I have to tell you, RICHARDS LINE IS NOT A SCORING LINE!!!!!! Get that through your thick skull. His line is a shut down line that plays a good 2-way game.

You say that you want 2 goal scorers and that we don't have the man-power to field 2 scoring lines now??? Then why the hell would you want to take 2 scorers and trade them for just one scorer???

Briere + JVR > Heatley. I think that most people would agree that Pronger is better, more vaualbe, more of an impact player, and has a bigger impact in winning a cup than Heatley does. If Holmgren wouldn't trade Anaheim JVR to get Pronger I think it's safe to say that he won't trade JVR to get Heatley. It would seem to me that the one person in all of this who actually matters seems to believe that JVR is going to be exceptional and that he's untouchable even for someone like Pronger or Heatley.
richards line not a scoring line? 80 points one season, third line with lappy and carcillo next season? wouldn't think so. richards gagne and knuble was a pretty good scoring line imo and richards gagne briere should be pretty good too

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08-02-2009, 12:49 PM
  #63
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LOLZZZZ Briere didn't even really play last season, and you say Heatley wouldn't help. bahahahah and like always you are over valuing JVR http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...php?pid=105417 Garbage as a Phantom, just barely a PPG player with NH (LOL) we have just as good if not better NCAA prsopects in our system (See 3 of the top 6 Hobey baker finalists) Caporusso, Condra and Wiercioch..

How did Pronger come into this conversation.. wow you are digging

Thanks for comign out though,.
JVR garbage as a Phantom? Wow. Way to throw that one out there.....he barely has his foot in the AHL door. Chill out.

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08-02-2009, 12:50 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by trikotomas View Post
briere is an rw u know, as a true flyers fan, u should know that by now...
Briere switches around. Mostly RW, but he plays C still sometimes.

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08-02-2009, 02:01 PM
  #65
phlocky
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Originally Posted by Stassino View Post
LOLZZZZ Briere didn't even really play last season, and you say Heatley wouldn't help. bahahahah and like always you are over valuing JVR http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...php?pid=105417 Garbage as a Phantom, just barely a PPG player with NH (LOL) we have just as good if not better NCAA prsopects in our system (See 3 of the top 6 Hobey baker finalists) Caporusso, Condra and Wiercioch..

How did Pronger come into this conversation.. wow you are digging

Thanks for comign out though,.
Another person who doesn't read the entire thread, has never watched a player play, reads stats, and thinks they are a genius. Congrats mister wizard, you win the prize. What that prize is I'm not allowed to say on here but I thik you might be able to figure it out.

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08-02-2009, 02:21 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by trikotomas View Post
richards line not a scoring line? 80 points one season, third line with lappy and carcillo next season? wouldn't think so. richards gagne and knuble was a pretty good scoring line imo and richards gagne briere should be pretty good too
OMG, anopther freaking idiot. Richards had 80 points yes, but 42 of those points came on special teams. He had 38 points at ES. He has ALWAYS scored about half his points on special teams. He does NOT focus on scoring at ES, his focus is on shutting down the other teams top line. Carter had 85 points last year and about 75% of them were at ES, THAT'S a scoring line. Hartnell had about 75% of his points at ES with Carter as his center. Gagne went from about 70% of his points at ES when he WAS on a scoring line to just over 50% of his points at ES when he was put on Richards line as a shutdown line.

Lets look at the top scorers in the league and how many points they had at ES:
Malkin - 113 pts, 70 pts @ ES
AO - 110 pts, 63 pts @ ES
Crosby - 103 pts, 62 @ ES
Datsyuk - 97 pts, 59 @ ES
Parise - 94 pts, 61 @ ES
Kovy - 91 pts, 57 @ ES

Lets drop down to guys right around where Richards was
Nash - 79 pts, 54 @ ES (ps, that's almost 70%)
StL - 80 pts, 52 @ ES, (65%)
Semin - 79 pts, 47 @ ES, (60%)
H Sedin - 82 ps, 56 @ ES (68%)
D Sedin - 82 pts, 58 @ ES (70%)

I could go on but why, you are CLEARLY WRONG!!!!

Please, I watch EVERY game that Richards plays, don't try to tell me that his line is a "scoring line" it just isn't true and if you actually watched the Flyers games you might just figure that out. I don't know, maybe coaching for more than 25 year I see things better than most people but honestly people, I don't think it's that hard to see when you watch him on the ice against guys like Crosby.

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08-02-2009, 02:29 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by trikotomas View Post
richards line not a scoring line? 80 points one season, third line with lappy and carcillo next season? wouldn't think so. richards gagne and knuble was a pretty good scoring line imo and richards gagne briere should be pretty good too

Oh, and in case you were wondering about this possibility, these 3 WERE together for the first 5 games of last season. At even strneght, Gagne had just 2 points, Briere 2 points, and Richards just one point. That projects out to 33 points at ES for Briere and Gagne and 16 ES points for Richards over a full 82 games. When they put Briere with Richards and Gagne last year THEY WERE STILL A SHUT DOWN LINE FIRST!!!!!!!!!!!

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08-02-2009, 02:36 PM
  #68
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I have to disagree with your assessment. Briere is basically a hometown boy for Ottawa, and JVR is one of the best prospects in the game. Also, doesn't this work?

Gagne-Richards-Briere
Hartnell-Carter-Giroux
Actually I quite like that, however, I think between playing a true C at RW, and getting arguably the best RW in the game....I'll take my chances on the top RWer (no offense to Iginla...they both have arguments to be the top RW in the league) Plus Briere and Giroux seemed to have great chemistry together, but that leaves our lines in shambles if we try and do that...hence my willingness to make this trade

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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
Why shouldn't I tell you that you are wrong, because you ARE wrong, dead wrong. I've said this so many times I feel like I'm talking to 3-year olds who can't remember things from one day to the next.

You want 2 line with Richards and Carter being our top 2 lines??? FINE, then you are going withjust once scoring line. How many times do I have to tell you, RICHARDS LINE IS NOT A SCORING LINE!!!!!! Get that through your thick skull. His line is a shut down line that plays a good 2-way game.

You say that you want 2 goal scorers and that we don't have the man-power to field 2 scoring lines now??? Then why the hell would you want to take 2 scorers and trade them for just one scorer???
Well for one, JVR hasnt even suited up in an NHL game. Sure I love the guys potential, but its just that, potential. You can't go talking like you KNOW the guy is gonna go out and score 50 goals in the future. Then again I don't know that Danny Heatley would score 50 ever again either, but between the two, I'll take the guy who's done it before...twice...and who has hit 40 goals....twice...

As for your one scoring line tirade, you show me a lineup thats better! If we try to roll three lines, like we did last year, you end up weakening your overall product so badly. Seriously, lets play fill in the blanks here

Gagne-Richards-________
Hartnell-Carter-________
_______-Giroux-Briere

To fill in these blanks youve got the following forwards: Lappy, Carcillo, Nodl, Asham, Cote, Powe (and yes, I'm making this difficult for you by not including JVR...because I think if you ask most people, he's gonna need some seasoning, especially since he didnt exactly light it up with the phantoms during his tryout at the end of last season and their playoffs) Lets see what you can come up with, because when I play that game, You can only put nodl on one line, and the other two lines get stuck with grinders or low-scoring energy guys that will bring their scoring down... This team is a much stronger team with two scoring lines, NOW THAT WE HAVE ONLY SIX TOP SIX FORWARDS...we got away with rolling three lines last year because we had EIGHT top six forwards, now two are gone, and we roll two top lines, like every other team out there....

As for your argument about Richie's line being a shut down line...Your arguments are based on a premise that vastly undervalue the talent that both Gagne and Richard's possess offensively. The point of a two-way player is one that can play BOTH WAYS. To call that line a shut-down line is silly, sure they might get matched up against the other team's top line, but their purpose out there is not solely to shut that opposing teams line...they're out there to score...every shift, if possible. Gagne is a fantastic finisher and Cannon has averaged a point a game the last two years...pretty offensive minded...no? You most likely also think Datsyuk's line is a shutdown line too, I mean he gets matched up against opposing line's top players, even beat Richie for the Selke voting! The guy must just luck into so many points!

JVR, unless he completely impresses in camp, Is not gonna make this team right now...so in reality, all we're doing to our current roster is trading one forward for another... I dont know about you, but I think that Heatley is kinda just a bit of an upgrade over Danny playing out of his natural position...just me...

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Originally Posted by trikotomas View Post
briere is an rw u know, as a true flyers fan, u should know that by now...
Oh I know that's where we seem to want to put him, and where he played some last year (though he and Giroux both seemed in indicate on that line that it was pretty free form and they switched positions during the course of play quite often).

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richards line not a scoring line? 80 points one season, third line with lappy and carcillo next season? wouldn't think so. richards gagne and knuble was a pretty good scoring line imo and richards gagne briere should be pretty good too
Exactly, there's nothing wrong with richards-gagne-briere and harts-carter-giroux (well other than throwing out the chemistry between briere and giroux from last year, but thats OK with me). I think people misunderstand my argument here, I think Briere is fine on the wing, and he'll play quite well there this season...but if we've got a chance to get one of the top wingers in the game for Briere....we take it, and run, Its just such a no brainer to me...my opinion thought

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08-02-2009, 02:44 PM
  #69
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You said that by putting Heatley on Richards line would make it a scoring line and that you weren't wrong. Well, you ARE wrong, it would STILL be a shut down line at ES. Gagne being placed with Richards didn't magically transform Richards line from a shutdown line into a scoring line. Pairig Gagne AND Briere with Richards didn't magically transform his line from a shutdown line to a scoring line. Replacing Briere with Heatley on that line ALSO would NOT magically transform that line from a shutdown line into a scoring line.

The ONLY thing that it might do is to make it much less effective against the other teams top lines. You do realize that during the regular season for the past 2 years, Richards is a plus player when going head to head against Crosby, Malkin AND Ovechkin. Richards is a damned good 2-wa forward but his first responsibility at ES is to shut down the other teams top line, not score himself.

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08-02-2009, 02:45 PM
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Oh, and in case you were wondering about this possibility, these 3 WERE together for the first 5 games of last season. At even strneght, Gagne had just 2 points, Briere 2 points, and Richards just one point. That projects out to 33 points at ES for Briere and Gagne and 16 ES points for Richards over a full 82 games. When they put Briere with Richards and Gagne last year THEY WERE STILL A SHUT DOWN LINE FIRST!!!!!!!!!!!
Ok, now youre just being silly...If the purpose of that line was to be a shutdown line...would Danny Briere be ANYWHERE NEAR that line? I love Danny, but the Maginot Line provided better defense for France than Danny has ever provided for his team. Btw, taking a 5 game sample, and extrapolating it out to prove your point makes you look really foolish...JVR had two points in seven games with the Phantoms, and zero points in four playoff games....that guy has no scoring touch whatsoever and he'll never amount to anything! Pretty foolish, no?

Anyways we've gotten away from the original topic of this thread... Danny Briere + JVR for Heatley is a fundamentally fair trade, and as a Flyers fan, I'd do it in a heartbeat and never look back. You differ from that opinion...thats perfectly fine, I can see the other side of the coin, but dont try and talk down to us because it reflects poorly on you and weakens your arguments down to pedantic rambling.

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08-02-2009, 02:47 PM
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There is a HUGE discussion regarding our lines on the Flyers board. Thisis not the place to discuss it. If you want my opinion and those of others, go to our board and open the thread "Line Combinations" (at least that's what I think it's called, it should be pretty close to that though). I've explained very clearly what I'd personally do AND what I think actually WILL happen with the lines.

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08-02-2009, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by flyersfan75 View Post
Ok, now youre just being silly...If the purpose of that line was to be a shutdown line...would Danny Briere be ANYWHERE NEAR that line? I love Danny, but the Maginot Line provided better defense for France than Danny has ever provided for his team. Btw, taking a 5 game sample, and extrapolating it out to prove your point makes you look really foolish...JVR had two points in seven games with the Phantoms, and zero points in four playoff games....that guy has no scoring touch whatsoever and he'll never amount to anything! Pretty foolish, no?

Anyways we've gotten away from the original topic of this thread... Danny Briere + JVR for Heatley is a fundamentally fair trade, and as a Flyers fan, I'd do it in a heartbeat and never look back. You differ from that opinion...thats perfectly fine, I can see the other side of the coin, but dont try and talk down to us because it reflects poorly on you and weakens your arguments down to pedantic rambling.
What part of "they were together at the beginning of last year and they were still a shutdown line (5 combined ES ponts in 5 games) don't you understand??? We played the Pens in game 3 last season and Richards line was matched up against Crosbys line almost the entire night. The only goal scored at ES when these 2 linse were matched up was one by Gagne. We weren't putting Richards line out there to score against Crosby, thy were there to shut down Crosby AND THEY DID!!!! They were a shutdown line in game 3 against the Crosby line and they did their job, they shut them out at ES.

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08-02-2009, 05:48 PM
  #73
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OMG, anopther freaking idiot. Richards had 80 points yes, but 42 of those points came on special teams. He had 38 points at ES. He has ALWAYS scored about half his points on special teams. He does NOT focus on scoring at ES, his focus is on shutting down the other teams top line. Carter had 85 points last year and about 75% of them were at ES, THAT'S a scoring line. Hartnell had about 75% of his points at ES with Carter as his center. Gagne went from about 70% of his points at ES when he WAS on a scoring line to just over 50% of his points at ES when he was put on Richards line as a shutdown line.

Lets look at the top scorers in the league and how many points they had at ES:
Malkin - 113 pts, 70 pts @ ES
AO - 110 pts, 63 pts @ ES
Crosby - 103 pts, 62 @ ES
Datsyuk - 97 pts, 59 @ ES
Parise - 94 pts, 61 @ ES
Kovy - 91 pts, 57 @ ES

Lets drop down to guys right around where Richards was
Nash - 79 pts, 54 @ ES (ps, that's almost 70%)
StL - 80 pts, 52 @ ES, (65%)
Semin - 79 pts, 47 @ ES, (60%)
H Sedin - 82 ps, 56 @ ES (68%)
D Sedin - 82 pts, 58 @ ES (70%)

I could go on but why, you are CLEARLY WRONG!!!!

Please, I watch EVERY game that Richards plays, don't try to tell me that his line is a "scoring line" it just isn't true and if you actually watched the Flyers games you might just figure that out. I don't know, maybe coaching for more than 25 year I see things better than most people but honestly people, I don't think it's that hard to see when you watch him on the ice against guys like Crosby.
what do u mean? should we put richards (who is one of the top players in the team) in the third line to play with lappy and carcillo or whatsoever and sign bertuzzi to play with gagne and briere instead? don't think the best player in the team plays good in a third line (except if jvr finds his potential fast and pyorala fits his style to nhl rinks really fast because he was one of the top scorers in sweden the past two seasons)

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08-02-2009, 06:14 PM
  #74
LEIFey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trikotomas View Post
what do u mean? should we put richards (who is one of the top players in the team) in the third line to play with lappy and carcillo or whatsoever and sign bertuzzi to play with gagne and briere instead? don't think the best player in the team plays good in a third line (except if jvr finds his potential fast and pyorala fits his style to nhl rinks really fast because he was one of the top scorers in sweden the past two seasons)
i think the point is that richards lives and dies by the special teams and is a defensive player first and foremost in most other situations. we could put him on the 3rd line at even strength and he'll still produce well if we give him top minutes on the pp and pk. might not be the best asset management since he's definitely talented enough to be on the first line, but its not like he'd disappear in a more defensive role.

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08-02-2009, 06:20 PM
  #75
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Another person who doesn't read the entire thread, has never watched a player play, reads stats, and thinks they are a genius. Congrats mister wizard, you win the prize. What that prize is I'm not allowed to say on here but I thik you might be able to figure it out.
Actually superstar I watch nearly all of NH's game because my cousin plays there.. He never dominates the ice.. He's a floater to the nth degree.. but thanks again for trying..

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