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Trade: Colin Stuart + Anton Stralman to CGY for Wayne Primeau + CGY 2nd 2011 Part Two

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Old
08-02-2009, 04:29 PM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dimi78 View Post
In your eyes he's proven nothing but to people who have there heads out of there @ss they see a young 22 year with potential play limited minutes and not look out of place. Did he make mistakes sure he did so did every player on the team.

Just wait and see the mistakes Komisarek makes with the puck can you say McCabe. Wait to you see Exelby running around the zone out of position to make hits. What's Beauchemin going to do with out Pronger and Neidermieyer he did little before that. Maybe your blind to what Stralman does well that's your problem and for anybody that question's his ability did not see this kid play where he got the chance to play big minutes.

He was the best D men for the Marley's in the playoffs and if you saw him play at the worlds you would have been jumping with joy that the Leafs had a kid like this. People throw some lame @ss excuses about the differences of playing on the big ice to the NHL when in reality it's not that big of a difference hockey is hockey if it played such a big difference Canada would never win on the big ice at all levels.

Stralman displayed fantastic hockey at the worlds going head to head against some of the worlds best. He out played Kaberle for those who don't know. That was a result of him playing confident something that this organization is notorious for destroying youth of in the past.

It's simple really Stralman believed that he should be an NHL player and he took his career into his own hands by asking to be moved that's why he was traded. If it was based on Management not valuing him into future plans that's a gross miss read of talent and a big mistake.
Certainly hasn't show he belongs in the NHL, sorry

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08-02-2009, 06:24 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by dimi78 View Post

Stralman displayed fantastic hockey at the worlds going head to head against some of the worlds best. He out played Kaberle for those who don't know. That was a result of him playing confident something that this organization is notorious for destroying youth of in the past.
I'm not saying that I disagree with the notion that Stralman has promise, but people who are against the trade keep pointing back to his performances at the Worlds. That's fine and good, but he could never translate that into the NHL, or even the AHL at this stage of his career.

What he has done at the World's isn't important, it's what he does in the NHL. Which, to date, isn't anything to write home about.

He's still a young kid and may yet make his mark. Regardless, and even more importantly, Burke clearly didn't think he fit into his idea of what he wants this team to be. At the end of the day that's all that matters.

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08-03-2009, 12:30 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Volcanologist View Post
You're not paying attention. I just went through this, and DID look at every single move. Did you not read my post? I'm assuming you did since you quoted it.



Kubina is better than Komisarek
, and for the third time we didn't need to trade him sign Komisarek. The cap space argument is bogus in this case.



Kubina? The guy with the worst +/- on our team last year? The guy who is 6'4 but plays like hes 5'9? The guy who didnt hit anyone all season last year and yet is mentoring Schenn? Just the kinda guy you want making 5mil a season and tutoring Luke right?


Do you like watching your teams get plastered thru thee glass because your d-man are soft? Kubina cant play angles, had trouble learning to adjust to playing in front of forwards near the net(remember RW talking about dman with bad habits? yeah, Kubina) and the saddest thing about Kubina is he doesnt stick up for teammates. White is better than Kubina!

The Kubina trade was the best move the leafs made in years. If you ever post any praise for the AMAZING defence we are going to have this year I'm going to call you out.

Just watch Exelby, Komisarek and Beauchemin this season to see what a REAL defence should look like.

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08-03-2009, 12:58 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Crispz View Post



Kubina? The guy with the worst +/- on our team last year? The guy who is 6'4 but plays like hes 5'9? The guy who didnt hit anyone all season last year and yet is mentoring Schenn? Just the kinda guy you want making 5mil a season and tutoring Luke right?


Do you like watching your teams get plastered thru thee glass because your d-man are soft? Kubina cant play angles, had trouble learning to adjust to playing in front of forwards near the net(remember RW talking about dman with bad habits? yeah, Kubina) and the saddest thing about Kubina is he doesnt stick up for teammates. White is better than Kubina!

The Kubina trade was the best move the leafs made in years. If you ever post any praise for the AMAZING defence we are going to have this year I'm going to call you out.

Just watch Exelby, Komisarek and Beauchemin this season to see what a REAL defence should look like.
It's funny Kubina's +/- was bad last year, but in 07-08 he lead the d-core in that respect. The season before he was a plus player, and likely would've lead the D in +/- if not for his injury. He's a big, physical d-man who doesn't run out of position to make plays. He doesn't throw big hits, but he overpowers players and grinds them down. That's the type of D-man Schenn is, that's why they call him the eraser. Beauchemin actually plays a fairly similar game to Kubina, but more screw-ups and more speed.

As for the "bad habits" RW speaks of. He's been changing all of the D-men. Making them play with two hands on their stick (when you're taught all the way up to play with 1 unless your in an offensive position) and he's changing the angles for the nNHL. He wants the D-men to play inbetween the puck and the forward, not inbetween the forward and the net. Again, this is something EVERYONE is re-learning, since it goes against traditional defensive concepts.

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08-03-2009, 01:25 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by EazyB97 View Post
It's funny Kubina's +/- was bad last year, but in 07-08 he lead the d-core in that respect. The season before he was a plus player, and likely would've lead the D in +/- if not for his injury. He's a big, physical d-man who doesn't run out of position to make plays. He doesn't throw big hits, but he overpowers players and grinds them down. That's the type of D-man Schenn is, that's why they call him the eraser. Beauchemin actually plays a fairly similar game to Kubina, but more screw-ups and more speed.

As for the "bad habits" RW speaks of. He's been changing all of the D-men. Making them play with two hands on their stick (when you're taught all the way up to play with 1 unless your in an offensive position) and he's changing the angles for the nNHL. He wants the D-men to play inbetween the puck and the forward, not inbetween the forward and the net. Again, this is something EVERYONE is re-learning, since it goes against traditional defensive concepts.
This is not something everyone is learning. Schenn has been playing between the puck and forward, the entire Detroit d-core has been playing this way for a long team.

I'm sorry some people here have Kubina jerseys that are now dishrags but he was a poor dman at 3mil a season never mind 5mil.

The best things we did this year were.

1. Trading Kubina
2. Francois Allaire signed
3. The Monster signed



Kubina needed to go. He didn't show any thirst to win and was far too soft. If you dont have a great puck possession defence and a skilled team you better have a nasty defence that makes aggressive fore checkers pay the price. Our defence got better this off season and anyone who says otherwise is lost.

Bring on the new defence!

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08-03-2009, 01:32 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crispz View Post

Our defence got better this off season and anyone who says otherwise is lost.

Bring on the new defence!
Totally agree the defense is better.

Top 4:
Kaberle
Komisarek
Beauchemin
Van Ryn

Bottom 3:
Schenn
White
Finger

Playing a rookie 19 year old in the top 4 was a recipe for disaster ... and the proof was in the pudding.

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08-03-2009, 01:36 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Totally agree the defense is better.

Top 4:
Kaberle
Komisarek
Beauchemin
Van Ryn

Bottom 3:
Schenn
White
Finger

Playing a rookie 19 year old in the top 4 was a recipe for disaster ... and the proof was in the pudding.
i was surprised that wilson stuck with it so long. in all situtions, luke was thrown out there. you do have to agree that it was a great learning experience for schenn though.

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08-03-2009, 03:08 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Totally agree the defense is better.

Top 4:
Kaberle
Komisarek
Beauchemin
Van Ryn

Bottom 3:
Schenn
White
Finger

Playing a rookie 19 year old in the top 4 was a recipe for disaster ... and the proof was in the pudding.
Disaster is a harsh word considering that the team's goals last season were fairly modest.

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08-03-2009, 03:14 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by akiberg View Post
i was surprised that wilson stuck with it so long. in all situtions, luke was thrown out there. you do have to agree that it was a great learning experience for schenn though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
Disaster is a harsh word considering that the team's goals last season were fairly modest.
Seem to be complementary comments.

Teams goals were missing the playoffs, so RW wasn't jeopardizing team success by playing Schenn. Team success wasn't Fletcher's stated goal.

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08-03-2009, 03:19 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Totally agree the defense is better.

Playing a rookie 19 year old in the top 4 was a recipe for disaster ... and the proof was in the pudding.
Unless the goal of a rebuilding team, was to dress a team that was competing for a Lottery pick and wanted into the John Tavares derby sweepstakes.

If not for a needless win in Game #82 the lottery pick would have been obtained and they plan competed as desired.

Tanking is not allowed, but a GM positioning the team to benefit most from a missed playoff year, is something we see played out many times around the league over the years.

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08-03-2009, 03:23 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Unless the goal of a rebuilding team, was to dress a team that was competing for a Lottery pick and wanted into the John Tavares derby sweepstakes.

If not for a needless win in Game #82 the lottery pick would have been obtained and they plan competed as desired.

Tanking is not allowed, but a GM positioning the team to benefit most from a missed playoff year, is something we see played out many times around the league over the years.
Sorry Mess, Gerber had the biggest influence on our final position. Had the leafs finished off the season with Pogge/Cujo no doubt we would have selected at least 5th, probably higher.

Ridding out the rest of the season with youngsters is common practice so Burke wouldn't have been accused of "tanking it".

EDIT: 12 GP, 6 Wins, 6 Losses, .905%

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08-03-2009, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Seem to be complementary comments.

Teams goals were missing the playoffs, so RW wasn't jeopardizing team success by playing Schenn. Team success wasn't Fletcher's stated goal.
So in your mind, Schenn playing cost the team success last year. Its what I read here anyways.

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08-03-2009, 03:37 PM
  #63
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Sorry Mess, Gerber had the biggest influence on our final position. Had the leafs finished off the season with Pogge/Cujo no doubt we would have selected at least 5th, probably higher.

Ridding out the rest of the season with youngsters is common practice so Burke wouldn't have been accused of "tanking it".
Agreed, too bad Burke arrived when he did as it messed up a perfectly happy ending.. Fletcher was trying for Tavares during the season.. Burke realized he wanted him after the season was over, and announced it but then it was too late.

Rebuilding teams are usually sellers at the deadline and play their youth down the stretch when the season is lost, unfortunately we saw vets promoted from the AHL like Devo and vets acquired like Jeff Hamilton and Martin Gerber and Jay Harrison. All that have no part of our future now other then to have effected the outcome of our draft position.

Its easier to lose a game via not enough on ice talent then it is to trade back up after useless wins, as we found out the hard way last season.

This year Burke's veteran additions via UFA signings and trades have made it crystal clear from the start, and trading a 22 year old defender in Stralman emphasizes the point that youth is not the biggest concern as wins appear to be this year.

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08-03-2009, 03:42 PM
  #64
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Nothing says not trying to lose like bringing in Brad Devereaux, Jeff Hamilton, Martin Gerber and Jay Harrison. The opposition weeps.

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08-03-2009, 03:50 PM
  #65
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Agreed, too bad Burke arrived when he did as it messed up a perfectly happy ending.. Fletcher was trying for Tavares during the season.. Burke realized he wanted him after the season was over, and announced it but then it was too late.

Rebuilding teams are usually sellers at the deadline and play their youth down the stretch when the season is lost, unfortunately we saw vets promoted from the AHL like Devo and vets acquired like Jeff Hamilton and Martin Gerber and Jay Harrison. All that have no part of our future now other then to have effected the outcome of our draft position.

Its easier to lose a game via not enough on ice talent then it is to trade back up after useless wins, as we found out the hard way last season.

This year Burke's veteran additions via UFA signings and trades have made it crystal clear from the start, and trading a 22 year old defender in Stralman emphasizes the point that youth is not the biggest concern as wins appear to be this year.
We'll see.

I'm banking on a few youngsters cracking the lineup this year. Tlusty and Bozak being the front runners with Hanson and Stalberg having a legit shot.

My guess is Burke wanted to have enough vets to fill a top 12-13 IF the youngsters fail miserably at camp.

Lineup without the hopefuls:

Pony Grabs Kulemin
Stemp Stajan Blake
Hagman Primeau Mitchell
Mayers Wallin Orr

Leaving Tlusty, Bozak, Hanson, and Stalberg fighting for a roster spot. I can envision a few failing but not all of them.

EVEN IF they all fail now, I'll bet my left arm all four will become a regular in the lineup by next season. Essentially delaying this huge youth movement up front.

Bozak, Hanson, and Stalberg are 23 at the moment and will be 24 by the start of 10/11. Holding them back until 25 will stunt their development IMO.

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08-03-2009, 03:58 PM
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Burke has showed absolutely no fear of trading away vets to promote younger guys who are ready to take on bigger roles.

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08-03-2009, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Unless the goal of a rebuilding team, was to dress a team that was competing for a Lottery pick and wanted into the John Tavares derby sweepstakes.

If not for a needless win in Game #82 the lottery pick would have been obtained and they plan competed as desired.

Tanking is not allowed, but a GM positioning the team to benefit most from a missed playoff year, is something we see played out many times around the league over the years.
do you think if you make this infantile post 100 more times and add in some more it will get the desired effect?

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08-03-2009, 04:56 PM
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Its easier to lose a game via not enough on ice talent then it is to trade back up after useless wins, as we found out the hard way last season.
.
Burke has respect for the game, and the fans. Tanking the season by putting out the worst team, even if you cover it up by suggesting they are checking out young talent is a joke.

And I don't care that Pittsburgh just won the cup by doing it. I would rather watch a team play hard and finish 9-12th and have to draft 7th, than tank the season, finish 15th and draft 1st.

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08-03-2009, 05:13 PM
  #69
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So in your mind, Schenn playing cost the team success last year. Its what I read here anyways.
Are you asking if a 19 year old rookie defender playing over 20 minutes a night contributed to the worst goals against in the league?

If they had played Oreskovic more would they have been worse than worst?

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08-03-2009, 05:23 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Are you asking if a 19 year old rookie defender playing over 20 minutes a night contributed to the worst goals against in the league?

If they had played Oreskovic more would they have been worse than worst?
Let's not forget goaltending that combined to be below .900. It's hard to play D when the goalie lets over 10% of the shots in.

At best I would say it was a cumulative effort. I'd be more inclined to blame a hurt goalie before the 19 year old rookie.

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08-03-2009, 05:25 PM
  #71
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Let's not forget goaltending that combined to be below .900. It's hard to play D when the goalie lets over 10% of the shots in.

At best I would say it was a cumulative effort. I'd be more inclined to blame a hurt goalie before the 19 year old rookie.
Do you think Luongon would have made a difference?

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08-03-2009, 05:25 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Crispz View Post
This is not something everyone is learning. Schenn has been playing between the puck and forward, the entire Detroit d-core has been playing this way for a long team.
So Schenn was brought up wrong. Schenn commented on how difficult it was to re-learn these things, positioning and two hands on his stick being the main two. Detroit's been moving to it, but it had to be re-taught. It's a new NHL phenomenon, since the player can't battle with the forward like they used to be able to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crispz
Kubina needed to go. He didn't show any thirst to win and was far too soft. If you dont have a great puck possession defence and a skilled team you better have a nasty defence that makes aggressive fore checkers pay the price. Our defence got better this off season and anyone who says otherwise is lost.

Bring on the new defence!
I'm happy we've done our overhaul, but that doesn't make our 40 point, 20+ minute, every situation D-man useless. And you keep repeating that he was soft, which isn't true. He wasn't a bruising d-man, he would wear players down and win battles.

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08-03-2009, 05:36 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Totally agree the defense is better.

Top 4:
Kaberle
Komisarek
Beauchemin
Van Ryn

Bottom 3:
Schenn
White
Finger

Playing a rookie 19 year old in the top 4 was a recipe for disaster ... and the proof was in the pudding.
Pretty great analogy. Schenn was the tasty Cool Whip on top of some nasty Jello vanilla pudding.

WUT UP ALL-ROOKIE TEAM?!?!?!?!


Last edited by dubey: 08-03-2009 at 11:43 PM. Reason: vanilla pudding is more nasty than chocolate
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08-03-2009, 05:38 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Are you asking if a 19 year old rookie defender playing over 20 minutes a night contributed to the worst goals against in the league?

If they had played Oreskovic more would they have been worse than worst?
Are you saying that if Schenn hadn't played that many minutes that they wouldn't have had the worst goals against average?

He's better defensively than the others on the team last year.

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08-03-2009, 05:53 PM
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Do you think Luongon would have made a difference?
Considering he only played 54 games last year, no. But at the top of his game playing 70+ yes. I think you would have to be crazy to think that Luongo wouldn't have an impact on a league worst GAA compared to the squad of goalies we had in net last year.

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