It seems to me that the Kostitsyn's are not only overrated (and I like them), but highly overrated by some here. Those are the same people who were raving about Komisarek but are now saying that he's a bum because he's no longer with us.
I do think that we're a better team with Clowe than with the Kostitsyn brothers, because he brings something we're lacking on our top two lines and that's not even counting the first round pick! The last time we traded for a first rounder acquired in a trade was also from San Jose and guess who we picked? Max Pacioretty. But I bet that just to save face, some will say that SK is a better prospect than MaxPac, right?
What kind of logic is that?
By the way i dont need scout reports on Clowe i already know his game pretty well, i've been following him since the last two seasons, he's one of the guys that the Habs should grab, but Ak and SK are more important to this team than a first and Clowe.
AK and SK are the two sole first line material that we have on our team and were drafted by the Habs, we must keep them and cash our investment. Clowe had a career year last season, have you seen the Sharks play in the regular season? They were all over the ice and played like offensive monsters. Let's not give him the first line title yet. And SK is worth more than a first or else he would have been traded a long time ago.
Everyone moving one of the Kostitsyn best include both because I have a suspicious feeling the other will perform poorly because of a dislike of no longer having his brother around, viewing it as distasteful. Nonetheless while I am still on the fence about Andrei, I would not trade him for San Jose's trash. Cheechoo? He has netted less points than Andrei and is I believe five years his senior.
This is a possibility I just thought up on the fly. So feel free to flame.
To Ottawa
Roman Hamrlik
Thomas Plekanec
Jonathan Cheechoo
To Montreal
Patrick Marleau
Christian Ehrhoff
To San Jose
Dany Heatley
Chris Kelly
Defensive prospect from Montreal not named Subban
Conditional draft pick (2nd unless Montreal passes into the 2nd round of the playoffs; at which time it becomes a 1st)
San Jose would likely have to offer something else to Ottawa, a draft pick perhaps and Ottawa still has some cap issues otherwise this sounds like a fair deal.
Ottawa improves on defense and adds to scorers, albeit taking a chance on Cheechoo (which is why I mentioned San Jose having to give them a draft pick.) Montreal has a huge improvement at centre, finally acquiring the big body centre they have always needed while upgrading significantly on Hamrlik and finally San Jose acquires one of the best goal scorer in the NHL and a defensive prospect with the possibility of another prospect depending how well Montreal fairs.
ottawa is giving kelly and heatley for hamrlik plekanec and cheechoo im sure senators fans will have some kind words for you
Everyone moving one of the Kostitsyn best include both because I have a suspicious feeling the other will perform poorly because of a dislike of no longer having his brother around, viewing it as distasteful. Nonetheless while I am still on the fence about Andrei, I would not trade him for San Jose's trash. Cheechoo? He has netted less points than Andrei and is I believe five years his senior.
This is a possibility I just thought up on the fly. So feel free to flame.
To Ottawa
Roman Hamrlik
Thomas Plekanec
Jonathan Cheechoo
To Montreal
Patrick Marleau
Christian Ehrhoff
To San Jose
Dany Heatley
Chris Kelly
Defensive prospect from Montreal not named Subban
Conditional draft pick (2nd unless Montreal passes into the 2nd round of the playoffs; at which time it becomes a 1st)
San Jose would likely have to offer something else to Ottawa, a draft pick perhaps and Ottawa still has some cap issues otherwise this sounds like a fair deal.
Ottawa improves on defense and adds to scorers, albeit taking a chance on Cheechoo (which is why I mentioned San Jose having to give them a draft pick.) Montreal has a huge improvement at centre, finally acquiring the big body centre they have always needed while upgrading significantly on Hamrlik and finally San Jose acquires one of the best goal scorer in the NHL and a defensive prospect with the possibility of another prospect depending how well Montreal fairs.
People are saying a 3 way trade wouldn't happen, especially with two rival teams involved. Not to say that it would happen, but Montreal has been involved in 3-way trades before:
Kyle McLaren from Boston to San Jose
Jeff Jillson from San Jose and Jeff Hackett from Montreal to Boston
Niklas Sundstrom to Montreal from San Jose
This happened in 2004, Gainey was GM for Montreal and Wilson was GM of San Jose. They have a history.
my father just tell me that on RDI they said, that the Habs want to land Marleau and that Plekanec and Gorges will be a part of the deal
So we traded Rivet + Plec for a 1st + Marleau? Kind of even up things, except i dont like Marleau at all, i seriously think that Plec is more competitive than him.
Max Pacioretty is the first round pick that we got for Craig Rivet when people were swearing at Gainey for that trade. In retrospect, now everyone says that it was a steal by the Habs with Josh Gorges in addition, which was believed at the time to be a throw-in.
I would hope that trading McDonagh HAS to mean that Subban is untouchable. It has unless Gainey is one of the biggest idiot ever. Which he's not. People were out of their minds when they learned about a McDo trade, can't believe what we'll hear if Subban is implicated. And actually the first insanities will come from me.
As far as trading AKost, well maybe, but clearly not to a division rival.
I would hope that trading McDonagh HAS to mean that Subban is untouchable. It has unless Gainey is one of the biggest idiot ever. Which he's not. People were out of their minds when they learned about a McDo trade, can't believe what we'll hear if Subban is implicated. And actually the first insanities will come from me.
As far as trading AKost, well maybe, but clearly not to a division rival.
Max Pacioretty isn't a first round pick; Max Pacioretty is Max Pacioretty.
Who would you give up between Hugh Jessiman and Sergei Kostitsyn?
And then there's the question of the draft year the first round pick is in. If it's the 2011 draft year (following this season's draft) the chances of landing a solid NHL player with a late first round draft pick will be very slim. Look back at the 1999 draft to get an idea what that draft is shaping up to be.
Max Pacioretty is the first round pick that we got for Craig Rivet when people were swearing at Gainey for that trade. In retrospect, now everyone says that it was a steal by the Habs with Josh Gorges in addition, which was believed at the time to be a throw-in.
I realy think you missed the point from Goldthrop.
Max Pacioretty is the first round pick that we got for Craig Rivet when people were swearing at Gainey for that trade. In retrospect, now everyone says that it was a steal by the Habs with Josh Gorges in addition, which was believed at the time to be a throw-in.
Good work truncating my sentence and missing the point, Asterix! You're one heck of a poster.
Yes, you're right, the value of all players is fixed the day they are drafted, and remain so for the rest of their career!
ottawa is giving kelly and heatley for hamrlik plekanec and cheechoo im sure senators fans will have some kind words for you
Oh I imagine they would, another reason I mentioned throwing in a draft pick or perhaps a prospect (Montreal has tons as we all know) however problem is they are in a difficult position and cannot argue for much more. Hmm, a bit of a alter, San Jose gives up their first round pick to Ottawa. That should balance things, although Ottawa still has to dump some salary.
I understand what you're saying but what does this team desperately needs? Grit and size up front on the top two lines. Yes, a bigger center would be nice but I truly believe, as you do obviously, that Plekanec can do the job if push comes to shove, as bigger top two centers are few and far between, let alone the ones that are available. Marleau is all fine and dandy but he has a NTC and if we believe the players who have commented recently about the reasons not to sign here, I doubt he'd waive it.
The proposal that I put forth was not AK for Clowe, but rather AK and SK for Clowe and a first. I am a ease thinking that value-wise, this is a fair deal and those who think that SK is worth more than a first live in a different world. Clowe had 135 hits last year while putting up 22 goals and 52 points. He's 6'2" and 225 lbs, and uses his big body, which would complement our smaller skilled forwards to a tee. Here's his scouting report:
ASSETS: Plays a solid up-and-down game, and is a throwback winger who loves to check and do the dirty work. Is versatile enough to line up on either wing.
It seems to me that the Kostitsyn's are not only overrated (and I like them), but highly overrated by some here. Those are the same people who were raving about Komisarek but are now saying that he's a bum because he's no longer with us.
I do think that we're a better team with Clowe than with the Kostitsyn brothers, because he brings something we're lacking on our top two lines and that's not even counting the first round pick! The last time we traded for a first rounder acquired in a trade was also from San Jose and guess who we picked? Max Pacioretty. But I bet that just to save face, some will say that SK is a better prospect than MaxPac, right?
I'd pull the trigger on that deal in a heart beat without looking back.
I agree that a 1st round pick is always attractive. Just remember that AK was one of them and that he's still very young.
I may still disagree with your deal but I appreciate your enthusiasm about Ryan Clowe.
I realy think you missed the point from Goldthrop.
Nope, didn't miss it. I was showing the other side of the medal. People saying that it's not worth while (see the Rivet trade) and now raving about that trade. Far from a miss, just adding a twist. But you missed that, did you?
Personnaly i always give an advantage to players we have drafted and developped, but SK is worth more than first, even without my drafting advantage.
Depends on which first round pick it is, and on the Draft's depth.
That isn't very fair though, the kid only has 121 Games played in the NHL.
Markov wasn't worth a 5th round pick after 121Games played.
If the deal is really good, I can see us moving the Kost broz, but ultimately I don't think there will be a great deal. I'd also wish for them to get a 2nd chance to bounce back because I expect them to be crucial players to us next year, especially Andrei.
Nope, didn't miss it. I was showing the other side of the medal. People saying that it's not worth while (see the Rivet trade) and now raving about that trade. Far from a miss, just adding a twist. But you missed that, did you?
Had Timmins drafted some smuck instead of Paciorrety, people wouldn't be as ecstatic.
Plus, Rivet was a upcoming UFA, not a cheap and young RFA like Sergei.
Plus, plenty of people were perfectly ok with the Rivet trade when it happened, including me.
Nope, didn't miss it. I was showing the other side of the medal. People saying that it's not worth while (see the Rivet trade) and now raving about that trade. Far from a miss, just adding a twist. But you missed that, did you?
The fact was that he said he didn't judge players from the drafting rank. I didn't see any hints in you post that would point out that you understood that. Or maybe like Goldtthrope pointed out, you didn't want to understand.
So you want me to accept a trade that i consider to be less valuable than what the Habs players are worth because in the end we might draft a good player with the pick and Clowe might be better than he is right now? Why not going for the right value and then still try to draft another Max Paciorety?
To Ottawa
Cheechoo
Hamrlik
Plekanec
Gorges
SJ first round pick
MTL first round pick
To MTL
Marleau
Vlassic
Lee
Ottawa would still be over the cap but hey!
1A Andrei-Gomez-Gionta
1B Sergei-Marleau-Cammalleri
6'2"A Latendresse-Lapierre-Pacioretty
6'2"B Stewart-Chipchura-Moen
X Metropolit-Laraque
Markov-Mara
Vlassic-Spacek
Gill-Lee
O'Byrne
Price
Sandford (weakest link)
A three way trade is hard enough to workout, but involving 11 roster players and 2 first rounders makes it even harder!
Why would Montreal give up 6 roster players and a 1st rounder in what is being called a deeper draft that the 2009 draft for a pending UFA in Marleau (NTC) and for Vlassic and unproven Lee???
