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Heatley and Thornton?

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Old
08-02-2009, 01:26 PM
  #51
Anksun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcons93 View Post
Although I agree this isn't a good deal for Montreal, Heatley is clearly the best player in this deal.
I might be alone, but i'm not trading Markov for Heatley 1 on 1. (considering needs for my team... obviously).

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08-02-2009, 01:29 PM
  #52
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gainey could pull a genius move if he could make Hamrlik go away in this kind of deal.

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08-02-2009, 01:31 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Pierre Dagenais View Post
you wouldn't want Markov?

Markov got 64 points last year, which is equivalent to a 2nd liner, top 6 forward.
There's a slight problem in your thinking; Andrei Markov, while a good defender, is not a top 6 forward, which is what Ottawa requires in any trade.

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08-02-2009, 01:32 PM
  #54
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First of all, no to the initial proposal. The Sens do not want Andrei Markov. He may be a good defenseman, but Dany Heatley is a much better player. So he asked to be traded. Oh well.

At the end of the day, he's more valuable to our franchise than Markov would be, being a two time 50g scorer (with 180 goals in 4 years here).

People also keep assuming Montreal would be heavily involved or doing it for Ottawa's sake... they obviously wouldn't. There probably is a player or two on San Joses roster that Montreal wants, and San Jose is offering to flip player X (that Montreal is dangling) for Heatley.

I suspect the deal will be for one of Montreal's forwards, if that happens. I hope its not the Kostitsyns, but there isn't really that much of interest (as a Sens fan) that's also tradeable... so I don't know.

I don't see why the Sharks wouldn't just include Mihalek or Vlasic if they were trading away assets to the Habs anyway... I'd much rather either of those players over anyone on the habs roster of comparable value.

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Old
08-02-2009, 01:33 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1927 View Post
Montreal is not trading for Dany Heatley, so the package from Montreal would not be overly substantial. Based on what is being written in the article, it states the following:

''If the Sharks don't have what the Senators want, then (GM) Doug Wilson might have to go get it from another team,'' a league executive told Sun Media on Saturday. ''The Senators want a proven scoring winger in return and that means you might have to get a third team involved.''

From the statement above, all San Jose has to do is acquire a winger that has an upside and track record for scoring. The only winger from Montreal that could possibly intrigue Ottawa for (one trading chip) is Andrei Kostitsyn. Andrei is only 24 years old and scored 23 goals last year. He has the potential to be a regular 25 goal scorer easy, and this could intrigue Ottawa to take on Andrei Kostitsyn.

San Jose would have to make a deal with Montreal as an example:

To Montreal: Roster player, 2nd round pick, and prospect
To San Jose: Andrei Kostitsyn

....to have Bob Gainey look at sending Andrei Kostitsyn to San Jose. Of course the deal can be worked out differently with picks, players, etc.

Then, San Jose could do the trade with Ottawa for:

To Ottawa: Andrei Kostitsyn, Jonathan Cheechoo, Christian Erhoff + 1st round pick 2010
To San Jose: Dany Heatley.

That would make Bryan Murray consider a possible trade with San Jose by getting the scoring depth he needs for his team. Something along those parameters could be feasible, but we would have to see what Gainey would want for Andrei Kostitsyn to see if Doug Wilson could pull a deal of this nature involving another team.
So to get Heatley San Jose would give up a roster player, second round pick, and prospect plus Cheechoo and Erhoff and a first.

Three roster players, two picks, and a prospect? No thanks.

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Old
08-02-2009, 01:33 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilfan22 View Post
It's amazing how much homers overate their own players...
How did he overrate him? Some people just need to watch some Sharks games. Ehrhoff is an amazing talent.

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08-02-2009, 01:34 PM
  #57
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I can see Ottawa wanting Plekanec(he has some chemistry with Kovalev , right?) and getting Erhoff + another Sharks prospect

SJ getting Heatley

Habs getting Cheechoo + San Jose 1st

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08-02-2009, 01:35 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamz View Post
Ehrhoff racked up points last year, but he was -12 on a great team, and it's not like he's really young at 27...
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08-02-2009, 01:36 PM
  #59
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Why on earth would Montreal want to help Ottawa unload their cancer? We'd be much better off if Heatley stayed in Ottawa and continued to poison their locker room.

Any proposal involving Montreal needs to favour the Habs significantly. Otherwise, their involvement in these negotiations is completely absurd.

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08-02-2009, 01:37 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogbert View Post
Why on earth would Montreal want to help Ottawa unload their cancer? We'd be much better off if Heatley stayed in Ottawa and continued to poison their locker room.

Any proposal involving Montreal needs to favour the Habs significantly. Otherwise, their involvement in these negotiations is completely absurd.
Whenever a team needs help they call Gainey.

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Old
08-02-2009, 01:37 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by masterandy View Post
Our team struggled mightily last year up front, we basically have the same core forwards and Kovalev is a downgrade from Heatley.

Markov does bring many intangibles but I don't think it is what we need right now, a one for one trade.
Markov would make your forwards better.

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Old
08-02-2009, 01:37 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Caseman View Post
He's a defenseman who plays questionable defense. No thanks. Have fun with that.
BS, his defense isn't questionable at all. He makes stupid mistakes now and then, as pretty much all offensive defensemen do.
Anyone who thinks that Ehrhoff is overpaid has absolutely no idea what he is talking about.

I don't know why there is even a discussion about this. The article doesn't offer anything new. It takes useless speculation by Garrioch, which is based on even more useless speculation by other people, and somehow it's noteworthy again.
Having those three teams in a deal makes no sense, as non of them can take on salary. Having the Sharks throw away lots of roster-players and prospects to acquire Heatley makes no sense either, they would have no depth and no money to replace those players. Not to mention Wilson all but saying that you won't see any big changes.

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Old
08-02-2009, 01:39 PM
  #63
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Proposal:

To San Jose: Dany Heatley (7.50M), Josh Gorges (1.10M), Chris Campoli (0.633M), Greg Stewart (RFA)

To Montreal: Jonathan Cheechoo (3.00M), Douglas Murray (2.50M)

To Ottawa: Andrei Kostitsyn (3.25M), Christian Erhoff (3.10M), Jody Shelley (0.725M), San Jose 1st round pick

SJ loses 0.092M Cap Space
OTT loses 1.058M Cap Space
MTL gains 1.15M Cap Space

MTL gains cap, but with their core signed for 2 or more years they can take the cap hit (I think), they downgrade offensively but upgrade defensively.

Ottawa gets a top 6 forward that can play with Kovalev. Major downgrade offensively, major upgrade defensively and they get a 1st round pick

SJ loses 2 defensemen for cheaper 2 D man in Lee, and Gorges (returns to SJ), and they get their all important Dany Heatley and shake-up of the team.

---------------

Personally I think Ottawa giving up Campoli is too much, but it makes the cap work and Erhoff is that much better.

Thoughts? please don't kill me too much on this!

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Old
08-02-2009, 01:40 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogbert View Post
Why on earth would Montreal want to help Ottawa unload their cancer? We'd be much better off if Heatley stayed in Ottawa and continued to poison their locker room.

Any proposal involving Montreal needs to favour the Habs significantly. Otherwise, their involvement in these negotiations is completely absurd.
It doesn't matter if Heatley's in the dressing room or not, Ottawa will still win at least 5 of 6 this year against Montreal.

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08-02-2009, 01:40 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Patty Ice View Post
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I'm saying it's not like we would get a great young player for years to come, Ehrhoff plays offensively and is unreliable on defense. In about 3 years his speed and agility will decline and I don't see him becoming amazing defensively in that period.

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08-02-2009, 01:41 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caseman View Post
He's a defenseman who plays questionable defense. No thanks. Have fun with that.
Don't worry...we will. There is a good reason why the majority of Sharks fan (the worthwhile ones) aren't in favor of trading him.

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Old
08-02-2009, 01:41 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by masterandy View Post
Proposal:

To San Jose: Dany Heatley (7.50M), Josh Gorges (1.10M), Chris Campoli (0.633M), Greg Stewart (RFA)

To Montreal: Jonathan Cheechoo (3.00M), Douglas Murray (2.50M)

To Ottawa: Andrei Kostitsyn (3.25M), Christian Erhoff (3.10M), Jody Shelley (0.725M), San Jose 1st round pick

SJ loses 0.092M Cap Space
OTT loses 1.058M Cap Space
MTL gains 1.15M Cap Space

MTL gains cap, but with their core signed for 2 or more years they can take the cap hit (I think), they downgrade offensively but upgrade defensively.

Ottawa gets a top 6 forward that can play with Kovalev. Major downgrade offensively, major upgrade defensively and they get a 1st round pick

SJ loses 2 defensemen for cheaper 2 D man in Lee, and Gorges (returns to SJ), and they get their all important Dany Heatley and shake-up of the team.

---------------

Personally I think Ottawa giving up Campoli is too much, but it makes the cap work and Erhoff is that much better.

Thoughts? please don't kill me too much on this!
So we lose Campoli, downgrade from Cheechoo to Coke-stitsyn, and get Shelley (useless)? And you originally said Lee in your deal too, which would make this even WORSE.

Also, didn't we give up a 1st round pick to GET Campoli less than a year ago? Why would we do this. This is a terrible trade for Ottawa.

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Old
08-02-2009, 01:42 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by masterandy View Post
Proposal:

To San Jose: Dany Heatley (7.50M), Josh Gorges (1.10M), Chris Campoli (0.633M), Greg Stewart (RFA)

To Montreal: Jonathan Cheechoo (3.00M), Douglas Murray (2.50M)

To Ottawa: Andrei Kostitsyn (3.25M), Christian Erhoff (3.10M), Jody Shelley (0.725M), San Jose 1st round pick

SJ loses 0.092M Cap Space
OTT loses 1.058M Cap Space
MTL gains 1.15M Cap Space

MTL gains cap, but with their core signed for 2 or more years they can take the cap hit (I think), they downgrade offensively but upgrade defensively.

Ottawa gets a top 6 forward that can play with Kovalev. Major downgrade offensively, major upgrade defensively and they get a 1st round pick

SJ loses 2 defensemen for cheaper 2 D man in Lee, and Gorges (returns to SJ), and they get their all important Dany Heatley and shake-up of the team.

---------------

Personally I think Ottawa giving up Campoli is too much, but it makes the cap work and Erhoff is that much better.

Thoughts? please don't kill me too much on this!
Kostitsyn, Gorges and Stewart for Cheechoo and Murray? Are you out of your mind?

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Old
08-02-2009, 01:42 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogbert View Post
Why on earth would Montreal want to help Ottawa unload their cancer? We'd be much better off if Heatley stayed in Ottawa and continued to poison their locker room.

Any proposal involving Montreal needs to favour the Habs significantly. Otherwise, their involvement in these negotiations is completely absurd.
Heatleys stats against Montreal over the past 4 seasons in Ottawa

6g 7 goals
6g 7 goals 5 assists
8g 3 goals 7 assists
8g 4 goals 5 assists

for a total of

28 games played
21 goals
17 assists
38pts

Yeah, Gainey would be beyond retarded to want to get Heatley out of his division. He should want to play against this cancer 6 times a year.

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Old
08-02-2009, 01:42 PM
  #70
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Markov is untouchable. Top 5 D man in the game on a great contract.

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Old
08-02-2009, 01:43 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by masterandy View Post
Proposal:

To San Jose: Dany Heatley (7.50M), Josh Gorges (1.10M), Chris Campoli (0.633M), Greg Stewart (RFA)

To Montreal: Jonathan Cheechoo (3.00M), Douglas Murray (2.50M)

To Ottawa: Andrei Kostitsyn (3.25M), Christian Erhoff (3.10M), Jody Shelley (0.725M), San Jose 1st round pick

SJ loses 0.092M Cap Space
OTT loses 1.058M Cap Space
MTL gains 1.15M Cap Space

MTL gains cap, but with their core signed for 2 or more years they can take the cap hit (I think), they downgrade offensively but upgrade defensively.

Ottawa gets a top 6 forward that can play with Kovalev. Major downgrade offensively, major upgrade defensively and they get a 1st round pick

SJ loses 2 defensemen for cheaper 2 D man in Lee, and Gorges (returns to SJ), and they get their all important Dany Heatley and shake-up of the team.

---------------

Personally I think Ottawa giving up Campoli is too much, but it makes the cap work and Erhoff is that much better.

Thoughts? please don't kill me too much on this!
I would take that, absolutely....Ottawa would have a great top-6

Foligno-Spezza-Alfredsson
Kostitsyn-Fisher-Kovalev

Erhoff upgrades our defense.....

Yes I like it..

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Old
08-02-2009, 01:43 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Patty Ice View Post
Don't worry...we will. There is a good reason why the majority of Sharks fan (the worthwhile ones) aren't in favor of trading him.
I'm a Sens (and Avs) fan and I like Erhoff.... I just don't like him + Cheechoo because I dislike Cheechoo.... Not as much as I dislike the Coke-brothers from Montreal, but still a fair bit.

Not crazy about a late first either. Rather a roster player.

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08-02-2009, 01:43 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Patty Ice View Post
Don't worry...we will. There is a good reason why the majority of Sharks fan (the worthwhile ones) aren't in favor of trading him.
The ones that disagree aren't worthwhile, is that what I'm reading here?

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Old
08-02-2009, 01:44 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by SenatorArmy View Post
I would take that, absolutely....Ottawa would have a great top-6

Foligno-Spezza-Alfredsson
Kostitsyn-Fisher-Kovalev

Erhoff upgrades our defense.....

Yes I like it..
Uhm, Kostitsyn is inconsistent and Foligno is hardly a top line forward. Our offense would be worse than last year, because Kostitsyn and Kovalev do not amount to Heatley individually, let alone Heatley + whoever we had fill in #6.

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Old
08-02-2009, 01:47 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamz View Post
I'm saying it's not like we would get a great young player for years to come, Ehrhoff plays offensively and is unreliable on defense. In about 3 years his speed and agility will decline and I don't see him becoming amazing defensively in that period.
Unreliable how? Ehrhoff has grown leaps and bounds since his days in Germany. Is he guilty of mishaps? Yes, but all defencemen are. I've been following him a long time...you are likely taking the words of others off this board.

Ehrhoff is in the prime age where defencemen only get better. Its the experience that is usually the trigger for a d-man to come into his own in the league and Ehrhoff is just now hitting that. He has more than a few years before he starts to decline.

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