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Coyotes Financial/Ownership Situation #6

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Old
08-06-2009, 02:58 AM
  #126
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Originally Posted by knowsthegame View Post
I think judge Baum has handled all the complex issues as well as can be expected.
His decision to allow any and all offers is his way of exposing all the potential bidders and eliminating Balsille. He is also showing that he is looking at all potential offers, which is his responsibility to the creditors.
Judge Baum is aware of all the issues that make relocation of the team through the bankrupcy court a virtual impossibility due to the Glendale claim, the NHL's rights and approvals and rejection of Balsille, the relocation fees, damages to the Leafs and Sabres, etc.
Have faith - this move is designed to get rid of Balsille. Watch and see!
I'd like to think that but I'm starting to lose confidence in Baum. The fact that he let the "accidental" releasing of confidential documents slide is disgusting. I don't know if he's a paper tiger or perhaps just enjoying the attention but every time he has the chance to put the smack down on the side show that is Moyes/BallSack he makes an excuse not to do so.

I'm just very very frustrated with this whole "process".

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Old
08-06-2009, 03:11 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by mouser View Post
Is that reported or your guess?
Both

It doesn't take a genius to deduce that the Leafs, Sabres and Coyotes would all abstain from voting, for obvious legal reasons. The 4th team is the only wild card and could be anybody.

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08-06-2009, 08:20 AM
  #128
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I assume that in order to decide which is the best offer on Sept. 10th Baum will need to have already decided the damages that would be paid to the City and to Aramark out of any relocation bid.

Any chance he would need to reveal those numbers ahead of then so that Balsillie's or any other relocation bid could contemplate what the total of the unsecured credit actually is, including those amounts?

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08-06-2009, 08:40 AM
  #129
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Wow, theres no doubt in my mind after hearing that the judge will allow Balsillie to throw in a new bid, that having a 7th team in Canada is getting closer to becoming a reality, good for him, im tired of people criticizing the man for trying to bring a failing franchise to Hamilton, until we all see the outcome we cant say Hamilton is not a profitable NHL market, sorry Yotes fans. Make it seven Jim!!.

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Old
08-06-2009, 09:14 AM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Sinurgy View Post
I'd like to think that but I'm starting to lose confidence in Baum. The fact that he let the "accidental" releasing of confidential documents slide is disgusting. I don't know if he's a paper tiger or perhaps just enjoying the attention but every time he has the chance to put the smack down on the side show that is Moyes/BallSack he makes an excuse not to do so.

I'm just very very frustrated with this whole "process".
He didn't let it slide, Moyes atty is supposed to file a brief in response either late yesterday/ today. Yesterdays hearing in effect existed just to say, "We will file that brief explaining our position, then assuming the COG isn't happy we can schedule a hearing." It's not a dead point by far.

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08-06-2009, 10:36 AM
  #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alberta Yote View Post
I assume that in order to decide which is the best offer on Sept. 10th Baum will need to have already decided the damages that would be paid to the City and to Aramark out of any relocation bid.

Any chance he would need to reveal those numbers ahead of then so that Balsillie's or any other relocation bid could contemplate what the total of the unsecured credit actually is, including those amounts?
It would seem that he would have to have those figures in advance... any bidder will have to include them in the total purchase price. The initial bid satifies the creditors, the relo fee to the NHL and the partial cure for harm goes to the City of Glendale... all seperate items that will have to be part of the total pay out amount. Its not just a bid for the team when bidding on the 'mobile' asset.

The relo fee is the 10ton elephant under the rug that everone has been tiptoeing around... the Judge will have to pull back that rug b4 too long if they expect anyone to bid... including PSE. (Balsillie's original bid was placed hoping that they could convince the Judge not to make them pay the relo, territorial rights and City penalty) now that it has been established by the court that the relo and some penalty has to be paid... all potential bidders need to know what that amount is.

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08-06-2009, 12:01 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Kovalchuk17 View Post
Wow, theres no doubt in my mind after hearing that the judge will allow Balsillie to throw in a new bid, that having a 7th team in Canada is getting closer to becoming a reality, good for him, im tired of people criticizing the man for trying to bring a failing franchise to Hamilton, until we all see the outcome we cant say Hamilton is not a profitable NHL market, sorry Yotes fans. Make it seven Jim!!.
You know, until now, I had hoped we would keep our team. After reading this post, though, I have truly seen the light. Thank you, sir. Make is seven Jim!!.

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Old
08-06-2009, 12:31 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by rt View Post
You know, until now, I had hoped we would keep our team. After reading this post, though, I have truly seen the light. Thank you, sir. Make is seven Jim!!.
Have I told you lately how much I adore you? ROFLMAO

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08-06-2009, 12:41 PM
  #134
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I am emotionally spent fighting for this team. I just want to know if this is going to be a lame duck season or if we have a team for the long haul. I talked to my ticket rep today and I can get my money back at any time because of this process, because I got my tickets after May 5th. So, screw it.

I want the team to stay. I want success, I wish I had the money to buy them, but at this point I have just about had enough.

BTW - I still have my tickets

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Old
08-06-2009, 12:52 PM
  #135
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I am emotionally spent fighting for this team. I just want to know if this is going to be a lame duck season or if we have a team for the long haul. I talked to my ticket rep today and I can get my money back at any time because of this process, because I got my tickets after May 5th. So, screw it.

I want the team to stay. I want success, I wish I had the money to buy them, but at this point I have just about had enough.

BTW - I still have my tickets
Yeah, if an out of town bidder gets the team especially JB and is forced to stay here for a year. I will get my money back. I will not give a dime to a lame duck team. This whole process is emotionally draining. I am distracted, I am constantly defending hockey in the desert and I am worried. The worrying is the worst. I just don't want to lose MY team.

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Old
08-06-2009, 12:56 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by PPD7952 View Post
I am emotionally spent fighting for this team. I just want to know if this is going to be a lame duck season or if we have a team for the long haul. I talked to my ticket rep today and I can get my money back at any time because of this process, because I got my tickets after May 5th. So, screw it.

I want the team to stay. I want success, I wish I had the money to buy them, but at this point I have just about had enough.

BTW - I still have my tickets
The team is not moving. People can think whatever they want. Most of them are misinformed.
I have read all the facts on this case. The NHL has made their position clear. The judge has already stated that he will not disrespect the rights of the NHL. Balsille has a dream -don't we all.
Dreams are not reality. Yotes fans please have faith. Let the Hamilton fans think the team is moving. Our team is staying put. For how long depends on the new owner's ability to be profitable.
The same applies to the future of all 30 teams.

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Old
08-06-2009, 01:01 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by ShootThePuckCoyotes View Post
Yeah, if an out of town bidder gets the team...
...I'll find a Canadian and punch him square in the face. My mom claims that her dog is an American Eskimo, but I have my doubts. That thing better watch out.

Tell me there's not some distinctly...Canadian...about this...


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Old
08-06-2009, 01:01 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by knowsthegame View Post
The team is not moving. People can think whatever they want. Most of them are misinformed.
I have read all the facts on this case. The NHL has made their position clear. The judge has already stated that he will not disrespect the rights of the NHL. Balsille has a dream -don't we all.
Dreams are not reality. Yotes fans please have faith. Let the Hamilton fans think the team is moving. Our team is staying put. For how long depends on the new owner's ability to be profitable.
The same applies to the future of all 30 teams.
When the judge opened up the bidding, it wasn't just to JB. Anyone now can bid on the team so there is no way to be sure the team won't be moving. The judge said there will be a new owner on 9/11 no matter what so if the City can't work out deals with prospective local bidders than we are pretty much out a team. It is naive to say the team is staying for good.

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08-06-2009, 01:01 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by knowsthegame View Post
The team is not moving. People can think whatever they want. Most of them are misinformed.
I have read all the facts on this case. The NHL has made their position clear. The judge has already stated that he will not disrespect the rights of the NHL. Balsille has a dream -don't we all.
Dreams are not reality. Yotes fans please have faith. Let the Hamilton fans think the team is moving. Our team is staying put. For how long depends on the new owner's ability to be profitable.
The same applies to the future of all 30 teams.
was that an e4?

I thought the NHL had an iron clad case early on with being in control & the proxy fight, but here we are.

I don't care, I'm cashing out the ST if Ballsie owns the team, no matter what I don't want that man seeing one penny from me.

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Old
08-06-2009, 01:10 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by TeamTurris View Post
was that an e4?

I thought the NHL had an iron clad case early on with being in control & the proxy fight, but here we are.

I don't care, I'm cashing out the ST if Ballsie owns the team, no matter what I don't want that man seeing one penny from me.
At this pace you're soon going to have trouble finding anywhere to spend your money.

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Old
08-06-2009, 01:26 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Z4dfence View Post
It would seem that he would have to have those figures in advance... any bidder will have to include them in the total purchase price. The initial bid satifies the creditors, the relo fee to the NHL and the partial cure for harm goes to the City of Glendale... all seperate items that will have to be part of the total pay out amount. Its not just a bid for the team when bidding on the 'mobile' asset.

The relo fee is the 10ton elephant under the rug that everone has been tiptoeing around... the Judge will have to pull back that rug b4 too long if they expect anyone to bid... including PSE. (Balsillie's original bid was placed hoping that they could convince the Judge not to make them pay the relo, territorial rights and City penalty) now that it has been established by the court that the relo and some penalty has to be paid... all potential bidders need to know what that amount is.
I know I said I was going to get out of all these speculative posts, but I can't stand sitting idly by!

Is Balsillie bound to his earlier $212.5M bid, or could he make a lower, all-cash, no contingency bid?

He knows the NHL is going to fight him anyway and he can always bid up at auction so that his bid is the highest, so why come in high if he doesn't have to? Why not take relocation off the table with a no-contingency bid since it is irrelevant until a higher court rules on the certain appeal challenging Balsillie's right to own an NHL team?

His chance of ultimately getting the team is still micro-razor slim to none, but on that slim chance he did why pay one penny more (or $5M, $10M or $50M) than he has to?

He certainly doesn't need Moyes anymore and can essentially kick him to the curb. He was able to use him to get in the door, but why pay Moyes significantly more than another bidder if he does not need to?

As Z said, the $212.5M was contingent on a lot of things, so remove those contingencies and bid lower, then bid up to the "winning" number, very likely to be less than $212.5M to satisfy creditors. And COG not an issue in the bidding at that point as it is not a relocation bid.

If the Judge awards him the team at whatever price, the NHL appeals. If the judge rejects his bid if it is the highest because he recognizes the league's authority to approve all owners, Balsillie appeals. Either way the "winning" or "high" bid will almost certainly be less than $212.5M to the creditors.

He didn't build RIM by wasting money, why start now? He's always been committed to the legal fight and spending what is necessary to break the NHL, but if he's not bound to that $212.5M bid, why go there unless he absolutely has to?

If he is bound to the $212.5M (can't go down, but can go up), than I just wasted my time typing this and yours in reading it. My apologies. But if the opportunity is there Balsillie has certainly demonstrated in the past that he is ruthless enough to go there for his benefit, and to h*** with everyone else.

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08-06-2009, 01:28 PM
  #142
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You know, until now, I had hoped we would keep our team. After reading this post, though, I have truly seen the light. Thank you, sir. Make is seven Jim!!.
I wanted so badly to respond to that post but chose not to, figuring someone could say it better than me. Well done, sir.

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08-06-2009, 01:29 PM
  #143
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Old
08-06-2009, 01:41 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by RousselRising View Post

As Z said, the $212.5M was contingent on a lot of things, so remove those contingencies and bid lower, then bid up to the "winning" number, very likely to be less than $212.5M to satisfy creditors. And COG not an issue in the bidding at that point as it is not a relocation bid.
On the bidding deadline Balsille changed his bid to the same amount but made it all cash with no contingencies.

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08-06-2009, 01:43 PM
  #145
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At this pace you're soon going to have trouble finding anywhere to spend your money.
yea your right, he already has $100 of mine for this Blackberry, and it pains me to say I love the phone.

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Old
08-06-2009, 02:08 PM
  #146
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On the bidding deadline Balsille changed his bid to the same amount but made it all cash with no contingencies.
Just for clarification there are still many contingencies in Balsillie's bid. He shuffled the $ around to remove some of the conditional payments like TGO's, but most of the conditions remain requiring that the court do things like overrule the NHL's consent, transfer, and indemnity rights for the bid to be accepted. Also grants Balsillie a walk-away right if he doesn't like the relocation $'s from the NHL.

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08-06-2009, 02:26 PM
  #147
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Bill Daly interviewed on XM...click on my blog and click link
Wow. Scott Laughlin has such an over the top radio voice. It's almost unbearable to listen to!

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08-06-2009, 02:27 PM
  #148
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Just for clarification there are still many contingencies in Balsillie's bid. He shuffled the $ around to remove some of the conditional payments like TGO's, but most of the conditions remain requiring that the court do things like overrule the NHL's consent, transfer, and indemnity rights for the bid to be accepted. Also grants Balsillie a walk-away right if he doesn't like the relocation $'s from the NHL.
So, he is bound to that bid and dollar amount until the day of the auction (can withdraw before, I assume) and can bid up, but not down?

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08-06-2009, 02:32 PM
  #149
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Just for clarification there are still many contingencies in Balsillie's bid. He shuffled the $ around to remove some of the conditional payments like TGO's, but most of the conditions remain requiring that the court do things like overrule the NHL's consent, transfer, and indemnity rights for the bid to be accepted. Also grants Balsillie a walk-away right if he doesn't like the relocation $'s from the NHL.
That's far from "no contingencies" as those rooting for his bid are contending. That's a lot of legal precedent for Judge Baum to set if he awards the team to JB. Knowing it will be appealed no matter what he decides, Mouser, why would the judge go there?

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08-06-2009, 02:42 PM
  #150
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The Balsillie bid is contingent on the team moving to Hamilton. Enough said. If you think his ownership was a non starter with the NHL Goervnors, moving the team is DOA.

I think that Baum had to make this move because of the unsettled situation with the largest secured creditor. Remember there are only two secured creditors -- The MSD and the NHL. If you are Reinsdorf or Ice Edge, you must make a deal with them to assume/extend/liquidate the debt. Once that is accomplished, you have the support of the two large secured creditors and attention turns to the Balsillie bid and all of the baggage that it brings.

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