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Don Taylor goes off on poker, on air... LOL

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Old
08-03-2009, 06:13 PM
  #26
Swedish Puck Mafia
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Are you kidding? Sitting is probably the most intense physical activity since laying down.

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Old
08-03-2009, 06:17 PM
  #27
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This guy needs to get off the couch. But that was hilarious, the guy lost it.

Edit: All the other guy had to say was "has anyone ever collapsed due to exhaustion during a poker tourney?" That would have been point, set and match.

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Old
08-03-2009, 06:20 PM
  #28
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"In 2002, at the age of 41, Igor Larionov won his first Stanley Cup."

Uh, Larionov was also on the Wings in 1997 and 1998.


"Boy you had me there right up until you brought up the poker player."
"Dave Pratt, the first guy to use the word 'sitting' and 'slugging it out' in the same sentence."



Last edited by Vomiting Kermit*: 08-03-2009 at 06:26 PM.
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Old
08-03-2009, 06:32 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Oil Gauge View Post
The Tour De france only has 180 riders, to be the best of 6000+ is a greater feet than to be the best of 180.

The World cup is only a 32 team event...

As for the olympics, you could make the argument that everyone in the world has a chance to compete at the Olympics. Though once you make it to the Olympics there are no where near 6000 people in any given event, it would me more like 30-40 athletes in any given event.

I'm not saying that the winner of the WSOP is the most amazing athlete there is because in reality a 300 pound man could win the WSOP, he would have no chance at winning the Tour De France.

All i'm saying is that sitting down at the beginning of the WOSP, and sitting at the starting line of the Tour De France. You are far more likely to win the Tour De France than you are a bracelet. So it is harder to win the Main event at the WSOP than it is to win the Tour De France. (not based on physical demands of the events at all)
I understand what you are saying, but I kinda disagree.

Ya, the WSOP is long and grueling mentally but I have as much chance as almost anyone else to win it. The odds are even for everyone. In fact, I may have even more of a chance since I have played a number of tournaments in Vegas and have won more than I lost.

Even if there is only 180 bikers in the TDF I have ZERO chance of winning that even though I do bike quite a bit. (mountain bike...non of that nancy-boy road riding ) 0 chance to win is worse odds than 1 in 6000 to win.

Besides, how many thousands of cyclists did these guys have to beat out in qualifying and other events just to make it to the TDF?

Same with golf, how many people did all the pros on tour have to beat out in qualifying tournaments before they got their card?

I think making it to the top level of a real sport has far, far higher odds against it.

However, with the right amount of luck and the cash to pay the entrance fee, there is a chance I could win any poker tourney in the world.

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Old
08-03-2009, 06:41 PM
  #30
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Poker is a game, with a sporting element to it. Thats all.

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Old
08-03-2009, 07:20 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lobotomizer View Post
I understand what you are saying, but I kinda disagree.

Ya, the WSOP is long and grueling mentally but I have as much chance as almost anyone else to win it. The odds are even for everyone. In fact, I may have even more of a chance since I have played a number of tournaments in Vegas and have won more than I lost.

Even if there is only 180 bikers in the TDF I have ZERO chance of winning that even though I do bike quite a bit. (mountain bike...non of that nancy-boy road riding ) 0 chance to win is worse odds than 1 in 6000 to win.

Besides, how many thousands of cyclists did these guys have to beat out in qualifying and other events just to make it to the TDF?

Same with golf, how many people did all the pros on tour have to beat out in qualifying tournaments before they got their card?

I think making it to the top level of a real sport has far, far higher odds against it.

However, with the right amount of luck and the cash to pay the entrance fee, there is a chance I could win any poker tourney in the world.
I'm curious as to how many poker tourny's you have played in in Vegas and have won more than half of them? that is a rather amazing accomplishment. Unless you are talking about small 1-table tournaments and stuff like that.

Yes making it to the TDF has a lot lower odds then simply buying into a tournament which anyone can do. but once you are at that point i say it is harder to win the WSOP Main event than it is to win the TDF. and by harder I don't mean physically harder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abused Catatonically View Post
To me your argument fails by the FACT that anyone in the world can buy in to the WSOP. All the other events I mentioned take years of qualifying to even be in that elite field to be allowed to compete in that sport. You can not at any point in the preliminaries buy back in to the world cup of soccer if you get knocked out. You can't just pay your way back into the lead of the Tour De France if you get dropped in one of the climbs in the Alps. You not knowing this FACT shows me where your opinion is coming from. Winning a big international chess tournament alone is much much harder then WSOP, and that is not considered a sporting event. Sitting at the starting line of the Tour De France and not knowing how to ride a bike makes your odds Zero because it's impossible for you to do it. By that same token as insanely small as the odds would be that you could win the WSOP without knowing how to play poker it could happen. Someone deals you all your cards you bet the maximum luck does the rest and you get a gold bracelet. Pretty simple if ridiculously unlikely though technically possible.
I'm not sure what you mean by the bolded part. Me apparently not knowing that you can't rebuy into a cycling race? or back into a soccer tournament? If so, i think that is a rather obvious well known fact, and i'm sure i was aware of it. But I don't see the relevance of you bringing this up. Its like just randomly stating that water is wet, or that english speaking people speak english...

Like i said, it obviously is harder to get to the TDF or to get to the World cup, i'm not arguing that. But to go from that point to becoming a champion is harder to do at the WSOP.

And the odds that you could survive the main event at the WSOP solely on going all in every hand for 13 days and win the WSOP are probably less than you winning the TDF on luck. I think its more likely for the rest of the racers to be attacked by some random animal, or for them all to become deathly ill, or even more likely for them all to test positive for doping.

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Old
08-03-2009, 07:23 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by SeriousBusiness View Post
LOL

Taylor is completely right. No idea why it's on TSN and Sportsnet, hell The Score too.

I think poker takes a lot of mental skill. That doesn't make it a sport.
Same reason "professional" wrestling is on those stations -- the viewers. They make their money selling advertising, after all.

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Old
08-03-2009, 09:10 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oil Gauge View Post
I'm curious as to how many poker tourny's you have played in in Vegas and have won more than half of them? that is a rather amazing accomplishment. Unless you are talking about small 1-table tournaments and stuff like that.

Yes making it to the TDF has a lot lower odds then simply buying into a tournament which anyone can do. but once you are at that point i say it is harder to win the WSOP Main event than it is to win the TDF. and by harder I don't mean physically harder.



I'm not sure what you mean by the bolded part. Me apparently not knowing that you can't rebuy into a cycling race? or back into a soccer tournament? If so, i think that is a rather obvious well known fact, and i'm sure i was aware of it. But I don't see the relevance of you bringing this up. Its like just randomly stating that water is wet, or that english speaking people speak english...

Like i said, it obviously is harder to get to the TDF or to get to the World cup, i'm not arguing that. But to go from that point to becoming a champion is harder to do at the WSOP.

And the odds that you could survive the main event at the WSOP solely on going all in every hand for 13 days and win the WSOP are probably less than you winning the TDF on luck. I think its more likely for the rest of the racers to be attacked by some random animal, or for them all to become deathly ill, or even more likely for them all to test positive for doping.



The TDF shouldn't just be looked at as the final race. If you're including all 6000 players in the WSOP, then include every cyclist who tried to get into the TDF. Either that or the TDF itself should only be compared to the final table at a poker tournament. Before that, it's just qualifying.

The odds of winning the TDF is a lot worse than winning at the final table.

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Old
08-03-2009, 09:11 PM
  #34
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I 1nce did shots with Dawnie T...he dies.

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Old
08-03-2009, 10:03 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oil Gauge View Post

And the odds that you could survive the main event at the WSOP solely on going all in every hand for 13 days and win the WSOP are probably less than you winning the TDF on luck. I think its more likely for the rest of the racers to be attacked by some random animal, or for them all to become deathly ill, or even more likely for them all to test positive for doping.
Who has won the TDF on luck? There are 5 guys every year that have a hope in hell of winning the thing, and those guys are known before hand because they are the best of the best. The only reason they have a hope is that they've worked for decades at becoming the best cyclists in the world.

Poker has random internet qualifiers winning bracelets. The reason they can win occasionally is because they are lucky.

How do you think a qualifier would do at the TDF? Win it? LOL.

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Old
08-03-2009, 10:18 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by jfhlbuffy View Post
The TDF shouldn't just be looked at as the final race. If you're including all 6000 players in the WSOP, then include every cyclist who tried to get into the TDF. Either that or the TDF itself should only be compared to the final table at a poker tournament. Before that, it's just qualifying.

The odds of winning the TDF is a lot worse than winning at the final table.
I'm not that familiar with the TDF but the way I understand it is that the cyclists are there in teams and attend by invitation.

There is no doubt that getting to the TDF is harder than getting to the Main event. Which one is harder to get to between the TDF and the final table is a completely different question. And obviously winning once you get to the final table is easier than winning the TDF. But why would you disregard the rest of a the tournament? I can see why you would want to cut down the # of people in the tourny as anyone over 21 is allowed to enter. To take it down to 9 people is a little extreme. Even if you cut it down to the people who get into the money you are looking at approx 650 people. The TDF had 180 riders in 09.

Lance Armstrong has won the TDF 7 times. Stu Ungar is the only player to legitimately win 3 Main Events. This will probably never be seen again since when Unger won these there were 73 75 and 312. Now there are 6000+ so the chances of even a pro repeating a win are a lot less than they used to be. But i can guarantee you that we will see a repeat winner at the TDF again.

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Old
08-03-2009, 10:42 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by oil slick View Post
Who has won the TDF on luck? There are 5 guys every year that have a hope in hell of winning the thing, and those guys are known before hand because they are the best of the best. The only reason they have a hope is that they've worked for decades at becoming the best cyclists in the world.

Poker has random internet qualifiers winning bracelets. The reason they can win occasionally is because they are lucky.

How do you think a qualifier would do at the TDF? Win it? LOL.
Random internet qualifiers winning on luck? Chris Moneymakers road to his bracelet was not luck. He is a very good poker player.

taken from an overview of his book.
Quote:
Chris Moneymaker was just a regular guy working as an accountant in Tennessee, who enjoyed playing online poker - and winning. On a fluke he decided to enter the World Series of Poker, paid the $40 application fee, and, with only three years' experience playing the game, won it all: $2.5 million. Merging Chris' amazing story with actual tools to help the average Joe become a poker star, this is the must-have poker book for online dreamers and budding young amateurs alike.
http://books.google.com/books?id=KX_...BAz1s#PPA99,M1

I have never said that an average joe would be able to win the TDF. Where as an average joe could win the main event. But that average joe is likely also a very good poker player. Out lasting 6000+ other players over a 13 day event can not be done on luck. Luck helps but name me a sport where luck does not play a factor.

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Old
08-03-2009, 10:55 PM
  #38
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If poker is a sport, then shouldn't math contests, spelling bees, and debates, also count? Kind of sounds ridiculous. Hey I survived sitting though University and that was mentally grueling... I guess I'm an athlete.

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08-03-2009, 11:12 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Oil Gauge View Post
I'm not that familiar with the TDF but the way I understand it is that the cyclists are there in teams and attend by invitation.

There is no doubt that getting to the TDF is harder than getting to the Main event. Which one is harder to get to between the TDF and the final table is a completely different question. And obviously winning once you get to the final table is easier than winning the TDF. But why would you disregard the rest of a the tournament? I can see why you would want to cut down the # of people in the tourny as anyone over 21 is allowed to enter. To take it down to 9 people is a little extreme. Even if you cut it down to the people who get into the money you are looking at approx 650 people. The TDF had 180 riders in 09.

Lance Armstrong has won the TDF 7 times. Stu Ungar is the only player to legitimately win 3 Main Events. This will probably never be seen again since when Unger won these there were 73 75 and 312. Now there are 6000+ so the chances of even a pro repeating a win are a lot less than they used to be. But i can guarantee you that we will see a repeat winner at the TDF again.


Uh... your last paragraph is actually an argument AGAINST you. If poker weren't based on luck, you'd see repeat winners, as skill will always triumph. Since you claim there will never be another repeat winner, that basically completely admits that each winner only does it on luck.


I don't know why you're still comparing the two. It's like me saying I channel surfed through every channel in 30 seconds, and that that's a more impressive feat than winning the Art Ross trophy.

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Old
08-04-2009, 12:35 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by jfhlbuffy View Post
Uh... your last paragraph is actually an argument AGAINST you. If poker weren't based on luck, you'd see repeat winners, as skill will always triumph. Since you claim there will never be another repeat winner, that basically completely admits that each winner only does it on luck.


I don't know why you're still comparing the two. It's like me saying I channel surfed through every channel in 30 seconds, and that that's a more impressive feat than winning the Art Ross trophy.
Well i'm comparing the 2 because you quoted me and made a comment about the 2, so i responded to it..... i think that's the basic objective of a message board.

as for there likely not being repeat winners again. It could happen but it is less likely now since the amount of high quality poker players that attend that tournament has gone up significantly, so the odds that someone will win more than once are lesser. it doesn't mean that the winner has no poker skills and got lucky.

There is a certain amount of luck involved in poker but like you said skill will always prevail, especially over 13 days of poker. Anyone could go to a casino one night and have a good night for 4 or 5 hours, but you need skill to do it for 13 days.

I have never said that winning at the WSOP is a more impressive feat than biking 3,500 kilometers and coming up ahead of the rest of the field. Because that is clearly a more physically grueling than winning a poker tournament. And hey if you could flip through all the channels in 30 seconds and do it faster than 6000 other people, then that pretty impressive too, don't you think?

I think you are missing the point of what I have been saying though. All I am saying is that going into the WSOP Main Event a poker player has to beat out over 6000 more people than a cyclist to win their respective titles. And if you cut it down to just the money winners at the WSOP Main Event to weed out the players who shouldn't be there. Then you are still talking over 450 more participants than the TDF that have a legitimate chance of winning the tournament based on their skill. I'm not saying that winning the main event is more impressive, its just harder to do based on the size of the field.

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Old
08-04-2009, 02:33 AM
  #41
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Doyle Brunson is old and fat, he is able to concentrate for a long time but it is nothing like a real sport.

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Old
08-04-2009, 03:41 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oil Gauge View Post
Random internet qualifiers winning on luck? Chris Moneymakers road to his bracelet was not luck. He is a very good poker player.

taken from an overview of his book.

http://books.google.com/books?id=KX_...BAz1s#PPA99,M1

I have never said that an average joe would be able to win the TDF. Where as an average joe could win the main event. But that average joe is likely also a very good poker player. Out lasting 6000+ other players over a 13 day event can not be done on luck. Luck helps but name me a sport where luck does not play a factor.
No, he's actually not a very good poker player. He's really nothing more than a random donk who (thank god for the poker world though) luckboxed a tournament at the exactly right time.

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Old
08-04-2009, 03:52 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Oil Gauge View Post
The Tour De france only has 180 riders, to be the best of 6000+ is a greater feet than to be the best of 180.

The World cup is only a 32 team event...

As for the olympics, you could make the argument that everyone in the world has a chance to compete at the Olympics. Though once you make it to the Olympics there are no where near 6000 people in any given event, it would me more like 30-40 athletes in any given event.

I'm not saying that the winner of the WSOP is the most amazing athlete there is because in reality a 300 pound man could win the WSOP, he would have no chance at winning the Tour De France.

All i'm saying is that sitting down at the beginning of the WOSP, and sitting at the starting line of the Tour De France. You are far more likely to win the Tour De France than you are a bracelet. So it is harder to win the Main event at the WSOP than it is to win the Tour De France. (not based on physical demands of the events at all)

For the record over 200 teams compete in the world cup process. Only 32 make the finals. Poker 8000 people compete in but only 9 people make the finals using your logic its easy with a 1 in 9 chance.

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08-04-2009, 04:04 AM
  #44
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Guitar Hero is closer to a sport than poker... The only reason why it's on a sports channel is because sports and gambling very often go hand-in-hand, especially in the US, and because it shares a big part of demographics.

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08-04-2009, 04:05 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Oil Gauge View Post
Well i'm comparing the 2 because you quoted me and made a comment about the 2, so i responded to it..... i think that's the basic objective of a message board.

as for there likely not being repeat winners again. It could happen but it is less likely now since the amount of high quality poker players that attend that tournament has gone up significantly, so the odds that someone will win more than once are lesser. it doesn't mean that the winner has no poker skills and got lucky.

There is a certain amount of luck involved in poker but like you said skill will always prevail, especially over 13 days of poker. Anyone could go to a casino one night and have a good night for 4 or 5 hours, but you need skill to do it for 13 days.

I have never said that winning at the WSOP is a more impressive feat than biking 3,500 kilometers and coming up ahead of the rest of the field. Because that is clearly a more physically grueling than winning a poker tournament. And hey if you could flip through all the channels in 30 seconds and do it faster than 6000 other people, then that pretty impressive too, don't you think?

I think you are missing the point of what I have been saying though. All I am saying is that going into the WSOP Main Event a poker player has to beat out over 6000 more people than a cyclist to win their respective titles. And if you cut it down to just the money winners at the WSOP Main Event to weed out the players who shouldn't be there. Then you are still talking over 450 more participants than the TDF that have a legitimate chance of winning the tournament based on their skill. I'm not saying that winning the main event is more impressive, its just harder to do based on the size of the field.
I'm about as pro-poker as they come and even I think you're being absolutely ridiculous right now. Here is the fact of the matter: one person in the world wins the WSOP, one person in the world wins the TDF. Cyclists need to train mind AND body, poker players need to train mind.

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08-04-2009, 04:44 AM
  #46
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I agree with Taylor, where's the physical element? As long as your brain still works, you can play poker. Yeah sure there's some stress involved but if you're a hockey player, your mind has to be sharp (like in poker) but your body has to be strong and agile too (unlike poker or any other card game).

Pratt's an idiot!

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08-04-2009, 05:55 AM
  #47
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Funny that Taylor should bring up age and poker. American sports shows were discussing the same thing: how bad it looked for golf that a 59 year old might win the British Open. "We're trying to sell this as a sport, and Grandpa is leading a major?"

But really, poker is in the same league as spelling bees for me. Except spelling bees actually make it onto Sportscenter once a year. I'd rather watch e-sports high lites like some places in Europe and Asia.

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Old
08-04-2009, 07:54 AM
  #48
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If sitting down for hours on end qualifies something as a sport, then you should consider all those WoW addicts athletes when they go on raids that last hours. Maybe tv addicsts can be athletes too since they sit there and watch tv for hours on end. Oh, let's not forget sleeping! It takes years of practice to be able to sleep for 16 hours and not have to get up to go piss.

Poker is less of a sport than hacky sack. That at least takes coordination.

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08-04-2009, 09:32 AM
  #49
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For the 2009 year the WSOP will be handing out 54 bracelets. 54!!!!!!!!!! There is 1 world cup every 4 years 1 stanley cup every year. Its not that hard to win a bracelet look up any professional poker player and they probably have a bracelet. Look at how many professional athletes in their specific sport have never won the major trophy. Poker is not a sport. Its a hobby. Would you ever consider Roulette or slots a sport even though playing the slots is a more physical activity.

Ive done some research and poker is considered a mind sport but actually WOW is as well so i guess those 2 actually do make a good compairable. I think its tougher to be thw WOW supreme geek then to win a bracelet in the WSOP as they are now handing our 54 a year.

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08-04-2009, 10:00 AM
  #50
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That was hilarious.



Yeah, sitting can be grueling. I'm sure a radio guy like Taylor wouldn't know it. But those of us whose "jobsite" is a chair in front of a computer and sometimes have to put in 10 hour days working on a design or a document can definitely understand that maintaining focus and alertness for that length of time can be extremely difficult.

But no, I don't think championship poker is a sport, any more than championship chess, championship Monopoly, or championship Scrabble. If you can make the argument that the challenge of maintaining mental alertness for that length of time makes poker a sport, you can say the same thing for competitive chess or competitive Scrabble, and I'm just not prepared to go that far. That's a slippery slope we should all be weary of.

I think Jim Rome once had a bit where he argues that any activity you can do without putting down your beer is a "leisure activity" as opposed to a "sport." That's usually the definition I go with.

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