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Don Taylor goes off on poker, on air... LOL

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Old
08-04-2009, 10:36 AM
  #51
OntOilFan
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That other guy is a total moron.

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08-04-2009, 10:40 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oil Gauge View Post
I'm not saying that winning the main event is more impressive, its just harder to do based on the size of the field.
It's not harder, it's statistically less likely. By your logic winning the lottery is an amazing accomplishment because you have to "beat" millions of people. Note that I am not saying that poker is pure luck - I'm just pointing out that the size of the field doesn't automatically make it "harder". After all, SOMEONE has to win.

Another example: Usain Bolt could win a race against a billion people almost as easily as he could win in the finals of a major event. Why? Because 99.99999% of those people wouldn't have a chance against him on his worst day.

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08-04-2009, 11:15 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by syz View Post
Funny that Taylor should bring up age and poker. American sports shows were discussing the same thing: how bad it looked for golf that a 59 year old might win the British Open. "We're trying to sell this as a sport, and Grandpa is leading a major?"
He didnít win in the end and like what was made evident in the original clip posted is that in every sport there has always been older players that can still compete. Watson did it for one weekend but came short, and what became evident in that playoff is that both physical and mental inabilities set in.

Everyones argument against golf when saying its not a sport is that when they can play, you can drink beer, and fat guys can compete. Well us amateurs when we play will drink, ride in a golf cart, and Im sure most arenít in the best of shape. If you play 4 rounds in 4 days, walking a 8 km course your going to get a bit tired. I'm a guy thatís in pretty good shape and works out regularly, and I played 3 rounds in 3 days last weekend and I was a fairly tired by the end of the weekend. And is it any coincident that the best player in the world is probably one of the best in shape players on tour? And if you look at probably the top 25 players in the world, with the exception of Kenny Perry, all those guys are in pretty good shape. Its nearly on the same physical level as major sports, that cant be argued, but it still is a sport.

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08-04-2009, 11:18 AM
  #54
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He managed to slip in there "... to win the toughest prize in sports" while referencing a poker tournament... I can't believe the sane dude just let that one slip by.

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08-04-2009, 03:01 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Live from Rexall View Post
For the record over 200 teams compete in the world cup process. Only 32 make the finals. Poker 8000 people compete in but only 9 people make the finals using your logic its easy with a 1 in 9 chance.
They have 32 teams on the same field in the finals of the world cup? Must be crowded... Once again, like I have said it is obviously harder to get to the World Cup than it is to get to the WSOP Main Event. But once you get there you have a better chance at winning the World cup than you have of winning the main event.

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Originally Posted by JBell84 View Post
I'm about as pro-poker as they come and even I think you're being absolutely ridiculous right now. Here is the fact of the matter: one person in the world wins the WSOP, one person in the world wins the TDF. Cyclists need to train mind AND body, poker players need to train mind.
I totally agree with you. So does that mean that you are being absolutely ridiculous right now too?

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Originally Posted by Live from Rexall View Post
For the 2009 year the WSOP will be handing out 54 bracelets. 54!!!!!!!!!! There is 1 world cup every 4 years 1 stanley cup every year. Its not that hard to win a bracelet look up any professional poker player and they probably have a bracelet. Look at how many professional athletes in their specific sport have never won the major trophy. Poker is not a sport. Its a hobby. Would you ever consider Roulette or slots a sport even though playing the slots is a more physical activity.

Ive done some research and poker is considered a mind sport but actually WOW is as well so i guess those 2 actually do make a good compairable. I think its tougher to be thw WOW supreme geek then to win a bracelet in the WSOP as they are now handing our 54 a year.
I think the argument is more about the Main Event, not every other tournament at the WSOP... In Hockey there is also the calder cup, there is the Memorial cup, i'm sure the ECHL has a trophy, as well as the RBC Cup. The there are countless Jr B leagues across the continent, Jr C leagues, mens leagues, Minor hockey. Find me a pro hockey player who hasn't won a championship sometime in their life and i'll give you a cookie.

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Originally Posted by auaiomrn View Post
It's not harder, it's statistically less likely. By your logic winning the lottery is an amazing accomplishment because you have to "beat" millions of people. Note that I am not saying that poker is pure luck - I'm just pointing out that the size of the field doesn't automatically make it "harder". After all, SOMEONE has to win.

Another example: Usain Bolt could win a race against a billion people almost as easily as he could win in the finals of a major event. Why? Because 99.99999% of those people wouldn't have a chance against him on his worst day.
Winning the lotterly is 100% luck/your ability to buy every ticket. I'm not saying that it is physically harder to win the WSOP main event, i'm saying that you have more to overcome. You have to sit down and be better than 6000+ players who really you have no advantage over, aside from maybe experience. Your not stronger, your not faster, well maybe you are but I don't think its going to help you much.

The best poker player in the world can sit down at the WSOP, play the best poker he has ever played and still get beat because someone else played better on that day. Running 100 meters in under 10 seconds is something easily repeatable for Mr Bolt (who I had a few shots with on the weekend along with Mr. Wonderbomb). Winning the WSOP main event is not.


No where have I said that I have more respect for Stu Unger than I have for Lance Armstrong. No where have I said that a Champion poker player is a better athlete than a Stanley Cup championship. No where have i said that Poker is a sport or should be considered a sport. All I am saying is that sitting down and beating over 6000 people at anything that requires skill to win is an impressive accomplishment. Whether its a game of poker, a golf tournament, a chess tournament, a soccer tournament, a cycling race. I think everyone who is against me in this thread is misinterpreting what i am saying.

Looking at some of the other major prizes in "sport" you can look at the Boston Marathon. I think they have 20-30,000 participants who need to somehow qualify to run the race I believe. Winning that race is very impressive, but at the same time the best runner is going to be the best runner, and that's why you see back to back to back winners at the Boston marathon. The best poker player isn't always going to win at the main event.

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08-04-2009, 03:34 PM
  #56
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Some would say that phrasing every name as "The ________ian One" isn't broadcasting. Don Taylor and I beg to differ.

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08-04-2009, 08:01 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oil Gauge View Post
Winning the lotterly is 100% luck/your ability to buy every ticket. I'm not saying that it is physically harder to win the WSOP main event, i'm saying that you have more to overcome. You have to sit down and be better than 6000+ players who really you have no advantage over, aside from maybe experience. Your not stronger, your not faster, well maybe you are but I don't think its going to help you much.

The best poker player in the world can sit down at the WSOP, play the best poker he has ever played and still get beat because someone else played better on that day. This has never ever happened! That's called luck not skill! Running 100 meters in under 10 seconds is something easily repeatable for Mr Bolt (who I had a few shots with on the weekend along with Mr. Wonderbomb). Winning the WSOP main event is not.


Looking at some of the other major prizes in "sport" you can look at the Boston Marathon. I think they have 20-30,000 participants who need to somehow qualify to run the race I believe. Winning that race is very impressive, but at the same time the best runner is going to be the best runner, and that's why you see back to back to back winners at the Boston marathon. The best poker player isn't always going to win at the main event.
Again because there is luck involved. It's not like they can choose their cards, or get the same ones every time. If your argument is it's harder to get lucky,(that's what she said) then I agree because luck is a much larger component in WSOP then in any other competitive anything.


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Old
08-04-2009, 10:50 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Abused Catatonically View Post
Again because there is luck involved. It's not like they can choose their cards, or get the same ones every time. If your argument is it's harder to get lucky,(that's what she said) then I agree because luck is a much larger component in WSOP then in any other competetive anything.
Its not like you can choose your cards??? Sure you can, its called folding...

Good poker players don't use luck to win, because when you depend on luck you don't know what kind of luck you are going to get. Good luck is a part of poker, just like bad luck is. It evens out, being able to overcome the bad luck is part of what makes a good poker player. As much as Luck is a part of poker it also isn't because luck runs out, and skill and solid play prevail.

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Old
08-05-2009, 02:32 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oil Gauge View Post
Its not like you can choose your cards??? Sure you can, its called folding...

Good poker players don't use luck to win, because when you depend on luck you don't know what kind of luck you are going to get. Good luck is a part of poker, just like bad luck is. It evens out, being able to overcome the bad luck is part of what makes a good poker player. As much as Luck is a part of poker it also isn't because luck runs out, and skill and solid play prevail.
In tournaments you DO need "luck" to win. Even if you have AA every single time you're allin preflop, or have top set vs bottom set on the flop and get it in.

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Old
08-05-2009, 04:26 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Oil Gauge View Post
The Tour De france only has 180 riders, to be the best of 6000+ is a greater feet than to be the best of 180.

The World cup is only a 32 team event...

As for the olympics, you could make the argument that everyone in the world has a chance to compete at the Olympics. Though once you make it to the Olympics there are no where near 6000 people in any given event, it would me more like 30-40 athletes in any given event.

I'm not saying that the winner of the WSOP is the most amazing athlete there is because in reality a 300 pound man could win the WSOP, he would have no chance at winning the Tour De France.

All i'm saying is that sitting down at the beginning of the WOSP, and sitting at the starting line of the Tour De France. You are far more likely to win the Tour De France than you are a bracelet. So it is harder to win the Main event at the WSOP than it is to win the Tour De France. (not based on physical demands of the events at all)
You really have to keep in mind that while there aren't 6k cyclists in the Tour, there are tens of thousands of professional cyclists who can't even qualify. There are a lot more professional hockey players than the ones who actually make the NHL - 99% of the best never see one minute of ice time in the bigs. In the WSOP you can be a celebrity with cash and walk in. Lennox Lewis or Jose Canseco aren't walking into the Stanley Cup, Tour de France, or Wimbleton because they want to, or qualified online...

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08-05-2009, 04:28 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oil Gauge
I totally agree with you. So does that mean that you are being absolutely ridiculous right now too?
I think you're confused -_-

The winner of the TDF is the best cyclist of ~7 billion, not whatever field actually qualified to participate / was able to participate. Nothing about the WSOP makes it statistically, actually, or otherwise, "harder" to win.

edit: maybe next TDF, petition to let people qualify for it online? Maybe if we stuff 5800 randoms out there you'll be more impressed.


Last edited by JBell84: 08-05-2009 at 04:35 AM.
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Old
08-05-2009, 04:53 AM
  #62
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Same reason "professional" wrestling is on those stations -- the viewers. They make their money selling advertising, after all.
I really hope you are not comparing the athleticism of Wrestlers and Poker Players. If so, that is laughable.

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08-05-2009, 05:31 AM
  #63
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don taylor is THE WORST sports broadcaster of all time, yet i have to agree with him on this on. and i'm a poker player (unfortunately not professionally)

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08-05-2009, 06:40 AM
  #64
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I really hope you are not comparing the athleticism of Wrestlers and Poker Players. If so, that is laughable.
Wrestling is also not a sport, but for completely opposite reasons... fantastic athleticism, but it is not an actual competition. Like a ballet for children.

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08-05-2009, 12:30 PM
  #65
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Wrestling is also not a sport, but for completely opposite reasons... fantastic athleticism, but it is not an actual competition. Like a ballet for children.
I think big, sweaty soap opera is more apt

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08-05-2009, 02:51 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by JBell84 View Post
I think you're confused -_-

The winner of the TDF is the best cyclist of ~7 billion, not whatever field actually qualified to participate / was able to participate. Nothing about the WSOP makes it statistically, actually, or otherwise, "harder" to win.

edit: maybe next TDF, petition to let people qualify for it online? Maybe if we stuff 5800 randoms out there you'll be more impressed.
If you have read anything i've said then you know that I agree that winning the TDF is more impressive than winning the WSOP. I know that it is harder to get to the TDF than it is to get to the WSOP, i think that is a rather obvious fact.

If you want to have satellite races to bring more people from around the world to the TDF then go ahead, doing it online is kind of silly though as its pretty much impossible to test a cyclists skills online. But if you held a number of races in major cities around the world with 2000-4000 cyclists and sent the best cyclist from those to the TDF I would imagine that they probably wouldn't be too out of place. These internet qualifying tournaments are usually at least 1000 players, and very often you need to win 2 or 3 consecutive tournaments to actually get a seat at the Main Event. Its not easy to do.

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Originally Posted by Karamazov View Post
You really have to keep in mind that while there aren't 6k cyclists in the Tour, there are tens of thousands of professional cyclists who can't even qualify. There are a lot more professional hockey players than the ones who actually make the NHL - 99% of the best never see one minute of ice time in the bigs. In the WSOP you can be a celebrity with cash and walk in. Lennox Lewis or Jose Canseco aren't walking into the Stanley Cup, Tour de France, or Wimbleton because they want to, or qualified online...
I know this, and have stated it numerous times. I think that is what keeping something in mind is.

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Originally Posted by Vikke View Post
In tournaments you DO need "luck" to win. Even if you have AA every single time you're allin preflop, or have top set vs bottom set on the flop and get it in.
If you have AA every hand and go all in every hand then well i'll tell you right now that you will need luck, because the probability of the best hand pre-flop being the best hand after the river is not 100% so sooner or later someone is going to call you with another pocket pair and hit it and you are going to have no one to blame but yourself. If you go all in every time you think you have the best hand it is very dangerous especially before all the cards are on the table, because if someone is willing to call your all in it usually means that you aren't that far ahead of them, and with 1 or 2 more cards to come anything can happen. Same reason you never leave the crease on a delayed penalty until the puck is on its way out of the zone.

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08-05-2009, 03:04 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Oil Gauge View Post


If you have AA every hand and go all in every hand then well i'll tell you right now that you will need luck, because the probability of the best hand pre-flop being the best hand after the river is not 100% so sooner or later someone is going to call you with another pocket pair and hit it and you are going to have no one to blame but yourself. If you go all in every time you think you have the best hand it is very dangerous especially before all the cards are on the table, because if someone is willing to call your all in it usually means that you aren't that far ahead of them, and with 1 or 2 more cards to come anything can happen. Same reason you never leave the crease on a delayed penalty until the puck is on its way out of the zone.
Hey, thanks for the lesson.

I really don't know how to reply to that, haha.

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08-05-2009, 03:50 PM
  #68
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Hey, thanks for the lesson.

I really don't know how to reply to that, haha.
Hah no problem

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08-05-2009, 06:31 PM
  #69
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If you have read anything i've said then you know that I agree that winning the TDF is more impressive than winning the WSOP. I know that it is harder to get to the TDF than it is to get to the WSOP, i think that is a rather obvious fact.

If you want to have satellite races to bring more people from around the world to the TDF then go ahead, doing it online is kind of silly though as its pretty much impossible to test a cyclists skills online. But if you held a number of races in major cities around the world with 2000-4000 cyclists and sent the best cyclist from those to the TDF I would imagine that they probably wouldn't be too out of place. These internet qualifying tournaments are usually at least 1000 players, and very often you need to win 2 or 3 consecutive tournaments to actually get a seat at the Main Event. Its not easy to do.
It's just that you explicitly stated that winning the WSOP was harder than the TDF because of the number of participants. You argued that through several posts.

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08-06-2009, 12:11 AM
  #70
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It's just that you explicitly stated that winning the WSOP was harder than the TDF because of the number of participants. You argued that through several posts.
In a way it is. Disregarding the actual psychical accomplishment of winning the TDF.

In the WSOP you sit down with 6000 other people who have no distinct advantage over you and you have to beat them all. Knocking out the first person can be just as hard as knocking out the 2nd place finisher. If you let your guard down for a second you can be knocked out of the tournament.

If I entered the WSOP and the TDF, Phil Ivey would take me way more seriously in the WSOP than Lance Armstrong would take me in the TDF. Because if Phil Ivey is not careful I could knock him out, There's no chance I beat Lance Armstrong.

I don't care if its a card game or a physically demanding grueling race, the amount of people that you have to beat is a huge factor in the difficulty of becoming the champion. Especially in a game like poker where everyone starts with a chip and a chair and everyone has a legitimate chance at winning. At the TDF there are probably several riders who know they will not win based on their actual physical abilities.

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08-06-2009, 02:45 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Oil Gauge View Post
In a way it is. Disregarding the actual psychical accomplishment of winning the TDF.

In the WSOP you sit down with 6000 other people who have no distinct advantage over you and you have to beat them all. Knocking out the first person can be just as hard as knocking out the 2nd place finisher. If you let your guard down for a second you can be knocked out of the tournament.

If I entered the WSOP and the TDF, Phil Ivey would take me way more seriously in the WSOP than Lance Armstrong would take me in the TDF. Because if Phil Ivey is not careful I could knock him out, There's no chance I beat Lance Armstrong.

I don't care if its a card game or a physically demanding grueling race, the amount of people that you have to beat is a huge factor in the difficulty of becoming the champion. Especially in a game like poker where everyone starts with a chip and a chair and everyone has a legitimate chance at winning. At the TDF there are probably several riders who know they will not win based on their actual physical abilities.
More than several, better to go the opposite way and say that several riders believe they may win. The vast majority are domestiques that have glorious jobs like waiting on the side while their team leader takes a leak and then drafts him back to the peleton.

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08-06-2009, 03:00 AM
  #72
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08-06-2009, 08:48 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Oil Gauge View Post
In a way it is. Disregarding the actual psychical accomplishment of winning the TDF.

In the WSOP you sit down with 6000 other people who have no distinct advantage over you and you have to beat them all. Knocking out the first person can be just as hard as knocking out the 2nd place finisher. If you let your guard down for a second you can be knocked out of the tournament.

If I entered the WSOP and the TDF, Phil Ivey would take me way more seriously in the WSOP than Lance Armstrong would take me in the TDF. Because if Phil Ivey is not careful I could knock him out, There's no chance I beat Lance Armstrong.

I don't care if its a card game or a physically demanding grueling race, the amount of people that you have to beat is a huge factor in the difficulty of becoming the champion. Especially in a game like poker where everyone starts with a chip and a chair and everyone has a legitimate chance at winning. At the TDF there are probably several riders who know they will not win based on their actual physical abilities.
Under no circumstances will I agree with you that the TDF is easier to win than the WSOP, regardless of all the voodoo twisted logic you throw around. The very fact that damn near no one in the world has a "chance of beating Lance Armstrong," but anyone with poker sense can ride the waves to the final table of the WSOP, by your own admission, is counter to your entire argument.

and why are we disregarding the physical accomplishment of winning the TDF? That is the ENTIRE purpose of it, after all.

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08-06-2009, 09:39 AM
  #74
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Just listened again, and it's still funny. I love the part where he slams down his microphone and leaves.

"the toughest prize in sports"

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08-06-2009, 11:22 AM
  #75
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Poker is not a sport no. But the main event at the WSOP is a very grueling event. And for a 76 year old man to play in it and demand the kind of respect that Brunson demands is truly an outstanding accomplishment.

I find it funny though that golf is the sport of choice to prove that the WSOP is not physically grueling. Golf is the least physically grueling sport there is. 4 rounds in 4 days, that's a nice holiday.
Dave? Is that you?

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