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Old
08-04-2009, 08:57 AM
  #1
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Zherdev

Leaf fan here. Leaf fans on the other board want to sign Zherdev because of the lack of offence on the team. I don't want any part to do with him because I've seen the kind of player he is. Since he's been on your team for a while, what kind of player is he listing his pros, and cons, and character etc

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08-04-2009, 09:00 AM
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Skraut
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Nobody questions the skill, they question the heart, the drive, the willingness to be a team player.

Will he help the leafs score more goals, absolutely. Will he help them in a playoff run, questionable.

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08-04-2009, 09:40 AM
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plong123
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Will he make an end-to-end game winning goal rush that will drop your jaw as you jump for joy? Yes.

Will you curse his name the 4th-7th time he tries the same move against the same defender in the same game? Yes.

Will it work every now and again? Yes.

So will he keep going back to it over and over again? Yes.


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08-04-2009, 10:01 AM
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CBJSprague24
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If you get Zherdev in Toronto, you'll end up with one of two players, or a hybrid of both:

Good Nikki is a skilled, talented forward who will dazzle you with skill & make your jaw drop with pretty plays & passes to himself which lead to goals (he had one in a January game vs. STL in Jan 08). A great example of his ability is his 05-06 coast-to-coast game tying goal vs. Chicago (YouTube it). He's also decent in the shootout, which never is a bad thing to have on your team. Before his trade to the Rags, Good Nikki discovered his selfless, team player side. This included things like:
-Giving up a hat trick against Carolina by passing the puck to a wide-open Kris Beech who potted the EN goal & iced the game.
-Breaking from his previous shell of avoiding Jackets not named Alexander Svitov and socializing with other Jackets & becoming "one of the guys". (Wasn't there a story about him learning to play poker from other Jackets that season?)

But beware, Evil Nikki, on the other hand, is...well, evil. Evil Z is a player who, as Skraut said, is a selfish Primadonna both on and off the ice, who refuses to associate with teammates. As Plong pointed out, he has two or three different tricks which he uses over and over, sometimes to success. He'll carry the puck into the zone & try to take the shot himself despite having four other guys that have better scoring chances than he does, drawing the ire of fans and coaches alike. Despite his offensive potential, Z got Hitchcock so pissed at him that he kicked him out of practice one day & was scratched on several occasions.


Last edited by CBJSprague24: 08-04-2009 at 10:12 AM.
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08-04-2009, 10:06 AM
  #5
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I'm not sure I should bother, given your agenda and the history of Zherdev threads on this board. But I've avoided so many Nikki threads lately that I feel a compulsion.

Top talent. Excellent playmaker. Excellent puck carrier. Above average shooter (not the best finisher). Average to below average defensively.

When he's on, like he was for much of 07/08, he's a top 40 player in the NHL, and that might be a conservative estimate. He hasn't been able to maintain that level of play for an entire season. Much speculation as to why that is, mostly from Internet cardiologists.

He used to be described as a poor teammate off the ice, mostly because he was a distraction for some antics during practices and so on. But teammates and coaches were going out of their way to note the changes in Zherdev in his final season with the Jackets, and it looked like that improvement continued with the Rangers. I would imagine that any character issues with Zherdev should now only be seen internally.

Like the Jackets, I thought Nikki improved in most of his playoff games. His best game, also like the Jackets, came in the Rangers' final game. I'm not going to claim that means anything, but I did see progress.

Who knows what the future holds. If the Leafs acquire him, they will almost certainly get 55-60 points from him. They might also win the lottery.

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08-04-2009, 10:17 AM
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No one really questions his talent. He's exciting. Hitch got him to play some responsible hockey and he showed he can do it. The issue is that he disappears when things get tough. It really wasn't that surprising that he played "well" in the first half and faded down the stretch for the Rangers. That's what happened the previous year with us.

He came out of his shell some after his first year. He wasn't known as a great team guy.

Having said that, I'm not sure if the NHL should give up on this kid. If someone can get through to him, you could have a great player on your hands.

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08-04-2009, 10:29 AM
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KallioWeHardlyKnewYe
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Lover, not fighter.

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08-04-2009, 11:10 AM
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pete goegan
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I think Nik is an example of a "skilled" player who's not necessarily a "good" player. There's no question that he's one of the most skilled forwards we've ever had in Columbus, but he seems to lack hockey sense - when to pass, when to dump, when to shoot, etc. In that respect, he's like a very young player who has demonstrated th potential to be great but remains unpolished. Even at 25, Zherdev strikes me as a very immature player (on the ice, I've no way of knowing for certain how he is in the room). That said, there's no question he still retains enormous ability and could yet become a star in the NHL. The question, as it has often been, remains: is he willing to learn and who is capable of bringing the talent out of him? I don't see him being written off by every team in the NHL. Someone will believe they have the key to reaching him. I'd like to see it happen, but I'm still glad I'm not waiting for it here in Columbus.

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08-04-2009, 11:48 AM
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Ryan Van Horne
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Zherdev an unrestricted free agent

Rangers walk away from Zherdev award.

http://rangers.nhl.com/team/app/?ser...ticleid=463418

How are you guys liking that deal now?

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08-04-2009, 11:50 AM
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Timeless Winter
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I'm sure everyone will be jumping around high fiving, and that's fine.
It sure looks like a win.
I think the ultimate win would be to sign him back.

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08-04-2009, 12:00 PM
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plong123
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Originally Posted by Timeless Winter View Post
I think the ultimate win would be to sign him back.
...because we need to add an overpriced winger to our full stable of centers and offensive defensemen?

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08-04-2009, 12:14 PM
  #12
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...because we need to add an overpriced winger to our full stable of centers and offensive defensemen?
Hitch did try him at center once.

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08-04-2009, 12:18 PM
  #13
blahblah
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Originally Posted by Timeless Winter View Post
I'm sure everyone will be jumping around high fiving, and that's fine.
The only reason I am remotely happy is that we ended up with Tyutin. There's no reason to high five what is ultimately is another high round draft pick no longer on the team.

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08-04-2009, 12:35 PM
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Just goes to show you how bad the Wade Redden contract is and how lucky we are to have avoided it.

If Howson would have landed Redden instead of him going to the Rangers then Tyutin would have never become expendable for them and we might have been the team saddled with a $6.5 million dollar Redden and Z walking out the door. That would have crushed this team.

The future looks bright and its all thanks to Wade Redden choosing New York over Columbus.

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08-04-2009, 12:46 PM
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Skraut
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Originally Posted by dru View Post
Just goes to show you how bad the Wade Redden contract is and how lucky we are to have avoided it.

If Howson would have landed Redden instead of him going to the Rangers then Tyutin would have never become expendable for them and we might have been the team saddled with a $6.5 million dollar Redden and Z walking out the door. That would have crushed this team.

The future looks bright and its all thanks to Wade Redden choosing New York over Columbus.
Is this where I make a video of Wade Redden's highlights set to Garth Brooks' "Unanswered Prayers"?

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08-04-2009, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Timeless Winter View Post
I think the ultimate win would be to sign him back.
I'll assume that you want to sign him so we have something more to send to Toronto for Kaberle, right?

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08-04-2009, 01:38 PM
  #17
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The NYR Redden deal (as described by Arace in the Dispatch today) saved our butts..., not so much that it lead to Z getting traded but we didn't get stuck with Redden. As for Zherdev, he's a free bird now so we will see how the league feels about his alleged bad attitude. As I said in another thread I don't think he will get the money he is seeking so his future might be the Russian league.

To be honest the Jackets have moved past Zherdev; that said, if any coach in the league could bring him around it would be a slightly more understanding Hitchcock. But that will never happen.

Zherdev is one of the most skilled forwards I've ever seen, when he wants to be. He also showed some signs of effort toward his defensive game under Hitchcock.

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08-04-2009, 01:45 PM
  #18
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I don't understand how/why the Zherdev to Toronto rumors are so rampant. I really don't see Burke being interested. He didn't want Antropov, why would he want Zherdev?

I don't think Burke is as biased against Europeans as some would suggest and certainly not to Cherry-esque proportions. But I also don't see Zherdev as the type of European player Burke would have any interest in--i.e. guys like Modin and Pahlsson (which reminds me, of Burke's mancrush for Modin a couple years back and makes me wonder if a trade for Kaberle centered around Modin, Stefan Legein and a pick would be of interst to Burkie).

Zherdev's best fit would be in Washington where there is a critical mass of Russian talent. Or, if they could move Heatley, perhaps in Ottawa where he might fit well with Kovalev. Toronto would be a bad match, undoing the changes Burke has been trying to make in their style of play, and ultimately being a bad fit for Zherdev, particularly once Burke decides to get rid of Ponikarovsky.

The Rangers are idiots in all of this though, make no mistake. They spend the kind of money they did on Gaborik and Hemsky and then walk away from $3.9 million for Zherdev. Not sure they come out ahead considering they also shipped out Gomez. Beyond that, the Rags didn't do Zherdev any favors by taking him off a line that was working with Voros and Dubinsky and then playing musical lines most of the rest of the year with him.

I hope Zherdev finally finds somewhere that he can put it all together. Preferably not in the Central Division.

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08-04-2009, 02:30 PM
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dru
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I did it for the LULZ

I dug up the old Tyutin for Z thread on the trade board:

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=531459

Enjoy!

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08-04-2009, 03:03 PM
  #20
KallioWeHardlyKnewYe
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Originally Posted by dru View Post
I dug up the old Tyutin for Z thread on the trade board:

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=531459

Enjoy!
Ooooooh, good times.

We CBJ fans shouldn't gloat too much ... many of us reacted unfavorably to the deal when it first went down too. The Juice signing a few hours later seemed to sway some to the pro side (I was in that camp) but still plenty were down on it in the first few days.


Last edited by KallioWeHardlyKnewYe: 08-04-2009 at 03:10 PM.
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08-04-2009, 03:42 PM
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CapnCornelius
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dru View Post
I dug up the old Tyutin for Z thread on the trade board:

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=531459

Enjoy!
I still wouldn't say that this move was the stroke of genius that some now seem to believe. Tyutin still hasn't been able to help on the power play the way Howson might have hoped.

I really look at the combination of moves as follows:

Hainsey for Tyutin
Zherdev for Huselius
Fritsche for Backman

In the first swap we improved in the defensive zone and kept the same level of production on the power play. We saved $1.7 million assuming you think Hainsey would have wanted as much to stay...and I'm not sure he would have.

In the second swap, we got rid of one inconsistent player for another. Comparable points, although Huselius has 6 years on Z and has dropped off 20 points from his production in his career year of '06-'07. We're paying Huselius $750,000 more than Z's arbitration award and his contract goes for two more years after this one.

The throw ins on the Rangers deal is what made the deal bad economically in the short term. We added a player in Backman who was horrible. A $3.4 million #6/7 defenseman. We gave up a decent (when healthy) checker/grinder at a reasonable $875k.

In the long term, the salary and term on the Huselius deal may negate the benefit of Tyutin over Hainsey as far as cash outlay goes, and should Huselius continue to decline in productivity, we may have another Freddy Modin situation where the player is still getting paid for past performance even though he can no longer play to that level and is therefore untradeable. At which point, I think the end verdict on this combination of moves is good but not great. If Brassard is able to get Huselius' productivity back up, Howson looks like a genius.

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08-04-2009, 04:08 PM
  #22
pete goegan
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Good analysis, though I do think you are under-rating Tyutin, a bit. The key, I think, may be:

Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
If Brassard is able to get Huselius' productivity back up, Howson looks like a genius.

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08-04-2009, 04:34 PM
  #23
aRussian
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I dug up the old Tyutin for Z thread on the trade board:

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=531459

Enjoy!
I still remember the shock I felt when I read that title that day...
I never posted but I'll admit that my lack of knowledge on Tyuts left me believing that we did, in fact, get fleeced.
I'm glad that all of that proved wrong

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08-04-2009, 04:39 PM
  #24
FlaggerX
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I'll assume that you want to sign him so we have something more to send to Toronto for Kaberle, right?
An evil Idea has us resigning Zherdev and putting him on the fourth line with Filatov and Williams. Not exactly a classic fourth line, but they would prove interesting.

On the other hand, do I want them mixing? Not really.

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08-04-2009, 05:07 PM
  #25
3074326
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An evil Idea has us resigning Zherdev and putting him on the fourth line with Filatov and Williams. Not exactly a classic fourth line, but they would prove interesting.

On the other hand, do I want them mixing? Not really.
That would be interesting, I'll give it that.

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