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Toots for Zherdev still a good trade?

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Old
08-04-2009, 12:52 PM
  #26
94now
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No. I consider Tyutin on par or better than Staal. He will not be surpassed by any of our prospects any time soon, therefore. Zherdev was of equal value, he was worth every penny of 3.9 million. If we kept him, I'd be fine with the trade. Since we lost him, it is just terrible. Replacing Zherdev with Kotalik is a joke.

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08-04-2009, 12:54 PM
  #27
blue2noise
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chariot View Post
True but Redden, overpaaid as he is, is still capable of having a great year.

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08-04-2009, 12:55 PM
  #28
TomLaidlaw
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If everyone wants to get a good laugh, take a look at the reactions in the thread on the main board after we made the trade for Zherdev.

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=531459


Quote:
Originally Posted by TomLaidlaw
As for the issue of who won the trade, talk to me in 3 years. If Zherdev becomes a 30+ goal scorer who gives a consistent effort night in and night out and realizes his obscene potential then chances are we'll be happy with the trade as Ranger fans.

The reward might be greater from the Ranger POV but so is the risk. There is a lot less risk with Tyutin. I can pretty much guarantee that if we had a time machine and we went 3 years into the future Fedor will be logging important minutes for Columbus. He is a safe bet as a player. His ceiling may be limited, but he is and will most likely continue to be a very solid #3 - #4 NHL defenseman.
Two things should be learned from this....

1)Don't jump the gun after a trade declaring one team "*****" the other. It is better to actually let the players play first then make an assessment.

2)I rule

At the time of the trade it was a move we had to make because we had just lost Jagr and needed a talented winger. It ended up blowing up in our face and turned out to be a terrible move. Since we essentially have nothing to show for Toots now other than a first round playoff loss. Anyone who is saying they would go back and still do the trade after seeing how it played out are either a delusional optimist or on acid.

Also, can we officially retire the phrase "I'll worry about the cap when we actually lose a player because of it"? Well it happened. Does everyone see how everything is relative in the cap world now. Why the Redden contract is such a disaster. If we aren't tying up 6.5 mill in cap space in Redden there is no need to haggle over a few hundred thousand for a 24 year old top 2 line player. We accept the ruling and assess our options and keep him as an asset.

I think some are having a hard time separating their personal feelings about Zherdev from the fact that he was an asset we lost for nothing. Zherdev is a tough guy to like because he looked like a gutless puke in the playoffs and seems disinterested at times, I get that. What I don't get is that a 24 year old who is a top 2 line player has no value. I don't care if he tortures kittens in his free time. None of us know what happened behind closed doors. I am giving Sather the benefit of the doubt that he tried to trade him but perhaps he waited too long and teams knew they could just wait for him to be a UFA when we don't match. I wasn't hellbent on Nicky being a Ranger next year but I was hellbent on at least getting something for him if he wasn't going to be a Ranger.

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08-04-2009, 12:56 PM
  #29
I Am Chariot
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All trades are a gamble....the trade was fair for both teams straight up.

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08-04-2009, 01:10 PM
  #30
TomLaidlaw
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Sathers Summer of 2008:

-Redden - 6 Years - 6.5 Mill Cap Hit Per Year
-Rissmiller - 3 Years - 1Mill Cap Hit Per Year
-Voros - 3 Years - 1Mill Cap Hit Per Year
-Rozy - 4 Years - 5 Mill Cap Hit Per Year
-Zherdev and Dan Fritsche for Toots and Backman

Good times.

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08-04-2009, 01:12 PM
  #31
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the trade, on paper, was fair, true Chariot, but you can't measure the trade on paper and the day the trade is made. Now is a better time to measure the trade and the moves that enabled the trade to occur, mainly signing Redden, which made at least one defenseman expendable to fill a void that was left by the departure of Jagr, Straka, Avery and Shanny. And also, as I mentioned, could there have been a better trade out there which would've benefitted the Rangers in the long run? I don't know, that's Sather's job. And I agree with Laidlaw 100% in saying that a trade doesn't get measured the day it's done, but a couple years out, or perhaps even at this point since there's a measurable event. Sure we can all say we were for it at the time, but as I mentinoed before, GMs' successes are measured based on results, not the general consensus at the time of certain events. Currently, this seems like a mismanagement of assets at a time when assets need to be managed properly since they're not easily replaced.

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08-04-2009, 01:15 PM
  #32
BwayBshirt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
No. I consider Tyutin on par or better than Staal. He will not be surpassed by any of our prospects any time soon, therefore. Zherdev was of equal value, he was worth every penny of 3.9 million. If we kept him, I'd be fine with the trade. Since we lost him, it is just terrible. Replacing Zherdev with Kotalik is a joke.
You think Tyutin is as good as or better than Staal? Even right now?

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08-04-2009, 01:21 PM
  #33
BrianNYR
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People act like GM's have a crystal ball to tell the future when it comes to trades.

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08-04-2009, 01:33 PM
  #34
DontStepanMe
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Originally Posted by BWayBShirt View Post
You think Tyutin is as good as or better than Staal? Even right now?
I do as well. Staal is better defensively than Tyutin, but Tyutin is far superior so far offensively. Tyutin had 34 pts last year compared to Staals 15. In fact Tyutin only had one season in which he had less than 20 pts, and that was when he had 14 b/c he only played in 66 games.

Tyutin is a better all-around dman than Staal right now. Once Staal puts up some offense comparable to Tyutin (like within 7 pts) than I would consider Staal better all around.

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08-04-2009, 01:55 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomLaidlaw View Post
Sathers Summer of 2008:

-Redden - 6 Years - 6.5 Mill Cap Hit Per Year
-Rissmiller - 3 Years - 1Mill Cap Hit Per Year
-Voros - 3 Years - 1Mill Cap Hit Per Year
-Rozy - 4 Years - 5 Mill Cap Hit Per Year
-Zherdev and Dan Fritsche for Toots and Backman
-Naslund-2 yrs- 4 Mil cap hit per yr

Good times.
Luckily, he retired.

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Old
08-04-2009, 02:00 PM
  #36
Chimp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomLaidlaw View Post
... Also, can we officially retire the phrase "I'll worry about the cap when we actually lose a player because of it"? Well it happened. Does everyone see how everything is relative in the cap world now...
Something I've been crying and ranting on $ather for years about now. How the Dreary, Fumblez and Dreaden trio royally have, are and will screw us over in so many ways, we don't even know them all yet.

$ather magically managed to dump Gomez, but as things are, we are still royally screwed for brutal management decisions.

I've said we won't even have the chance to be a true Stanley Cup contender for at least another decade or so and I still believe so. Too many screw ups in a very fragile, artifical NHL world.

Zherdev is not the last asset we will lose in this mess.

Queue the next gamble: "Oh god why did we sign Gaborik for half a decade?!" thread next off-season, when it proves he's still made of glass. Please don't let this come true. The sad part is, there is a significant risk this will come true and we'll be the official laughing stock on this board.

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08-04-2009, 02:03 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianNYR View Post
People act like GM's have a crystal ball to tell the future when it comes to trades.
What on earth does that even mean? Some people didn't like the trade (a minority I grant you). Did they have a crystal balls? The Blue Jackets couldn't wait to get Zherdev on a plane out of Columbus. I hear the party continued for 7 days and 7 nights. Did they have a crystal ball? A GM is measured on his performance. Just like any job on earth where results are expected and paid for. Sometimes the decisions pay off and sometimes they don't. Thems the breaks. BUT "Oh well, it was a gamble" in no way, shape, or form relieves a GM of his responsibilities to build a winning team. You want to make high risk moves, you deal with the consequences good or bad.

And how big of a crystal ball do you need to realize that signing player after player to stupid inflated contracts in a cap environment might spell some trouble at some point?

It seems like there is an endless # of cliches out there designed to be apologetic for a GM's failures.

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Old
08-04-2009, 02:15 PM
  #38
TomLaidlaw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyBurd View Post

It seems like there is an endless # of cliches out there designed to be apologetic for a GM's failures.
Sather gives his minions some flashy new toys to distract them from our perpetual state of mediocrity. Who cares if we improve, there are new jerseys for us to buy!!!

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08-04-2009, 02:23 PM
  #39
HockeyBasedNYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomLaidlaw View Post
If everyone wants to get a good laugh, take a look at the reactions in the thread on the main board after we made the trade for Zherdev.

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=531459

my favorite from nyr2k2:

Quote:
This deal is insane. God I'm so happy.

If nothing else, I don't have to listen to my fellow Rags fans ***** and moan about how badly Sather sucks, and how he's "wasting time" signing depth players.
hahahaahaha, some things never change no matter what huh?

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08-04-2009, 02:25 PM
  #40
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It was a fine trade on paper........they took a chance and Zherdev would be still a Ranger if they wanted him at that price

sucks cause Toots would fit in nicely on the D

I just with Sather said no to signing Rozsival after they already signed Redden, kept Tyuyin and just signed a UFA winger

easier said than done I know, different circumstances

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08-04-2009, 02:26 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
We took a test drive, overall it didnt work out, now we have the money to spend on the vehicle most suited for the 2010 Rangers.

Now what do I have to do to get you into a new car today? Metallic pea?
Metallic pea?!?! I distinctly ordered the antartic blue super sportswagon with the CB and the optional Rally fun pack!

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Old
08-04-2009, 02:36 PM
  #42
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I think the interesting question is where would Tyutin rank on this team's defensive depth chart right now?

Tyutin was great in Columbus. He played about 24 minutes a night and had 34 points and the team made the playoffs for the first time in their history.

Forget about contract numbers and blah blah blah. Based off of pure merit I bet Tyutin would be on our first D pairing this season.

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08-04-2009, 02:44 PM
  #43
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I really don't think you can consider it a "good trade," but it was still a risk worth taking. With the Redden and Rozsival signings last summer, along with the D prospect depth the organization has, going for the homerun with Zherdev was a reasonable move especially with the loss of Jagr, Straka, and even Shanahan last summer.

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08-04-2009, 03:00 PM
  #44
TomLaidlaw
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Originally Posted by Shadowtron View Post
Metallic pea?!?! I distinctly ordered the antartic blue super sportswagon with the CB and the optional Rally fun pack!
You think you hate it now, but wait till you drive it.

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Old
08-04-2009, 03:07 PM
  #45
Burlington Bomb 26
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I was thinking about this the other day after watching Game 5 Rangers-Devils 2008.

Let's say the Rangers sign Straka for 1-1.25 mil. The domino effect on that wouldve been, JJ getting re-signed, That means no Redden due to it coming out to around the same $ amount. Then that would mean no Zherdev and Freetree for Toots and Mr Worthless. Mr Worthless would get waived for cap-relief and the Rangers sign Ryder/Naslund. Eh, hindsights 20/20 right?

2008 was probably Slats' worst off-season to date. He's lucky Naslund called quits.

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Old
08-04-2009, 03:11 PM
  #46
Burlington Bomb 26
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
I do as well. Staal is better defensively than Tyutin, but Tyutin is far superior so far offensively. Tyutin had 34 pts last year compared to Staals 15. In fact Tyutin only had one season in which he had less than 20 pts, and that was when he had 14 b/c he only played in 66 games.

Tyutin is a better all-around dman than Staal right now. Once Staal puts up some offense comparable to Tyutin (like within 7 pts) than I would consider Staal better all around.
1st half this year Tyutin was on pace for 42 points. Funny how like every single year he regressed in 2nd half and was pitiful in the playoffs yet again for the 3rd straight year. I'll take Staal the consistent defenseman every time.

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Old
08-04-2009, 03:13 PM
  #47
Burlington Bomb 26
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Another thing to think of, without this putrid off-season does that mean no Torts, and potentially Torts is coaching in NJ/MIN/MTL?

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Old
08-04-2009, 03:37 PM
  #48
DontStepanMe
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Originally Posted by GongShowHockeyNYR View Post
1st half this year Tyutin was on pace for 42 points. Funny how like every single year he regressed in 2nd half and was pitiful in the playoffs yet again for the 3rd straight year. I'll take Staal the consistent defenseman every time.
Staal also struggled for about a month. People act like he never does anything wrong at all on this board. Is he a good young dman. yes. Is he the second coming of God who never makes any mistakes. No. In December he (along w/ the rest of the team) struggled.

Tyutins brings just as much value to a team as Staal does right now b/c he does add offense. If Staal can open up his offense (maybe he does this year) than he will be more valuable than Toots. Right now though, Toots can man the pt on a PP (17 pts on PP good for seond on team), and still play above avg defense. He just does more than Staal right now b/c of the offensive aspect. Do I think that Staal will one day become better all around than Toots? Yes, b/c I do think that Staal can become a 30 pt dman.


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Old
08-04-2009, 03:40 PM
  #49
BigCanada77
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No. Even if we have more d-men. We gave up a young 1-2nd pair defensmen for 1 year, 58 points, 0 playoff points, and an offseason headache.

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Old
08-04-2009, 03:50 PM
  #50
94now
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We can sign Toots as UFA soon.

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