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Rangers walk away from Zherdev arbitration ruling (Update: KHL Rumor False)

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Old
08-11-2009, 05:05 PM
  #526
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I trhink you guys made the right move. 3.9 million is a lot of money for someone as enigmatic and inconsistent as Zherdev. He was no where to be found in the playoffs. Pointless if I am not mistaken. Use that money better somehwere else. Didn't he just sign in the KHL? I guess 29 other teams agreed with you guys.

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08-11-2009, 05:06 PM
  #527
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I think the trade was decent in the short-term, but for the long-term, who knows?

There are so many "what ifs" in analyzing a trade. I thought Tyutin's development hit a plateau in the 2007-08 season, but then he had a career year once he was traded. If Tyutin was never traded, would he have played as well here as he did in Columbus? Who knows, maybe a change in scenery was needed. Maybe Hitchcock's coaching staff helped him develop his game in a way that the coaching staff here didn't do.

I have no regrets about the trade, it filled a need at the time.

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08-11-2009, 05:18 PM
  #528
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A lot of exaggeration here.

Despite his inconsistencies, Zherdev was probably as important as Tyutin to this team last season.

That said, Zherdev left so right now Columbus got the better end because they still have a player.

Regarding Tyutin: he has had really one solid season so far. When he was here he was a #3 defenseman at best, maybe a #4.

I have not watched him with Columbus, but he was not a PP QB here. That might be his role in Columbus now because of their lack of offensive defenseman, but imo he would never have been given that opportunity if he stayed here. He would have gotten some time on the second PP with Girardi, and would have probably finished with 20-25 points.

Tyutin's hockey sense is below average and his shot is erratic as heck. His cap hit is also not that insignificant. I believe it's around 3 million now (correct me if I'm wrong)

Anyway, he would have made this team better, but my feeling is that Sather has made up for this in a way by getting McDonagh. Imo McDonagh has a higher upside than Tyutin. With this teams depth at defense, Sather is probably hoping that one of Del Zotto, McDonagh, Sanguinetti, Gilroy or Sauer will be able to fill the hole left by Tyutin, and for about 2 million dollars cheaper.

We still lost the trade, but because of our defensive depth I doubt anyone will care in a year or two (or possibly less). Hopefully I'm right.

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08-11-2009, 05:23 PM
  #529
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdEye View Post
A lot of exaggeration here.

Despite his inconsistencies, Zherdev was probably as important as Tyutin to this team last season.

That said, Zherdev left so right now Columbus got the better end because they still have a player.

Regarding Tyutin: he has had really one solid season so far. When he was here he was a #3 defenseman at best, maybe a #4.

I have not watched him with Columbus, but he was not a PP QB here. That might be his role in Columbus now because of their lack of offensive defenseman, but imo he would never have been given that opportunity if he stayed here. He would have gotten some time on the second PP with Girardi, and would have probably finished with 20-25 points.

Tyutin's hockey sense is below average and his shot is erratic as heck. His cap hit is also not that insignificant. I believe it's around 3 million now (correct me if I'm wrong)

Anyway, he would have made this team better, but my feeling is that Sather has made up for this in a way by getting McDonagh. Imo McDonagh has a higher upside than Tyutin. With this teams depth at defense, Sather is probably hoping that one of Del Zotto, McDonagh, Sanguinetti, Gilroy or Sauer will be able to fill the hole left by Tyutin, and for about 2 million dollars cheaper.

We still lost the trade, but because of our defensive depth I doubt anyone will care in a year or two (or possibly less). Hopefully I'm right.
That's pretty much how I feel.... Just because some Columbus fans are happy with Tyutin, somehow that transformed him into this TERRIFIC defenseman in Ranger fans' eyes... He certainly wasn't that player his last 2 seasons with the Rangers... I didn't lose a wink of sleep after we traded him.... He didn't show much progress at all... That's probably why the Rangers were inclined to move him at the time... They didn't feel they were losing much and could afford to trade from a position of depth.

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08-11-2009, 05:29 PM
  #530
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Well, well, well... What if... it wasn't true...!?

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In an interview with Sovietsky Sport, Salavat Yulaev assistant coach Igor Zakharkin emphatically denied the rumor, going one step further to say his club never even considered signing the Ukranian winger. Unaware of the path the original story had taken to reach TSN, he blamed Zherdevís agent for planting the rumor, calling it a common ploy used by agents to convince NHL teams to sign a player faster.
http://www.beyondtheblueshirts.com/2...-the-khl-club/

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08-11-2009, 05:35 PM
  #531
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Zherdev's agent is a ***** and it makes Zherdev look even more clueless because he appears uninformed and to be letting his agent call all the shots...

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08-11-2009, 06:42 PM
  #532
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Zherdev's agent is a ***** and it makes Zherdev look even more clueless because he appears uninformed and to be letting his agent call all the shots...
It wasn't Zherdev's agent. Well, it might have been him who was the original source in Russia (though it was reported to be "someone close to management") in the first place, but this was a total screw up on the part of RDS. They took the original report from "unnamed sources" in Russia and transformed it into "Zherdev will play with Perezhogin and Radulov". Everyone took RDS at their word, including TSN.

Zakharkin assumed it came through Zherdev's agent because he didn't know the TSN report cited RDS or where RDS got the story from. He just had a reporter call him and say "TSN says Zherdev's playing for you" and assumed the agent planted something with TSN.

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08-11-2009, 07:06 PM
  #533
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Zherdev should really fire Hedges

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Rollie Hedges, the agent for Zherdev, is feeling the pinch for his client as well. Zherdev finds himself in a tough situation after becoming an unrestricted free agent in early August, when the New York Rangers walked away from his arbitration award.

``Most of the teams are at the cap or at their budget,íí Hedges said Monday. ``Itís not necessarily a matter of the cap. Most teams have budgets now. You donít want to be in our situation in August. It takes a lot of teams out of play.íí
http://data.tennessean.com/v2/bin/pl...tennessean.com

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Old
08-11-2009, 07:33 PM
  #534
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I'm pretty disappointed in not resigning Zherdev. If Kotalik is worth $3 million and Callahan is worth $2 million than Zherdev is easily worth $3.9 million. Kotalik is not an adequate replacement for him. I was disappointed in his disappearing act in the playoffs but lets not forget this young kid led our team in scoring this season from start to finish (not counting Antropov). It is poor asset management to let a 24 year old who led your team in scoring leave without getting anything in return. Even if Zherdev decided to "coast" it for the season he'd still put up over 50+ points. One of the worst aspects of what has been a decent Summer for us. I liked the Kotalik signing IF he was an addition to the team. Not as a replacement. Which is looking like he will be one. Hopefully, Anisimov will step up this season and impress me because I'm still not fully convinced we have a top-6.

Gaborik, Drury, Callahan, and Higgins are all top-6 forwards but Avery, Kotalik, Dubinsky, etc; being top-6 forwards is stretching it. I think they're players that can fit the top-6 mold but are better for a 3rd line. Zherdev is a legitimate top-6 scoring forward. We need to replace that.

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08-11-2009, 07:39 PM
  #535
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Kotalik is not a replacement for Zherdev...I think that is why people are upset. Kotalik and Zherdev are two completely different players. If we are talking about similar style of play than the closest person to Zherdev is Enver Lisin...Lisin is good and will have alot of pressure on him to produce but he has the heart and motivation to show he can be a force in the NHL.

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08-11-2009, 08:10 PM
  #536
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Originally Posted by FutureGM97 View Post
Kotalik is not a replacement for Zherdev...I think that is why people are upset. Kotalik and Zherdev are two completely different players. If we are talking about similar style of play than the closest person to Zherdev is Enver Lisin...Lisin is good and will have alot of pressure on him to produce but he has the heart and motivation to show he can be a force in the NHL.
I don't know about everyone else here, but I don't give a **** about style of play. I'm looking at production. Kotalik doesn't score as many goals, and doesn't get as many assists. In that sense, he is not a Z replacement.

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08-11-2009, 08:15 PM
  #537
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Originally Posted by alphaqup View Post
I don't know about everyone else here, but I don't give a **** about style of play. I'm looking at production. Kotalik doesn't score as many goals, and doesn't get as many assists. In that sense, he is not a Z replacement.
Gaborik, who is actually Zherdev's replacement, will destroy Z's production*




*if healthy disclaimer

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08-11-2009, 08:19 PM
  #538
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Originally Posted by alphaqup View Post
I don't know about everyone else here, but I don't give a **** about style of play. I'm looking at production. Kotalik doesn't score as many goals, and doesn't get as many assists. In that sense, he is not a Z replacement.
I,in fact, DO care about style of play. And Heart! Z has no heart or passion. He can hit 60+ points every year and still be a detriment to a team, IMO. I will take a motivated Kotalik @ 3 mil per, over a lazy, primadonna like Z for 4 mil per. Every time. Also, above poster set it straight re:Z comparability. He is more Enver Lisin than anyone. At least Enver tries...

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08-11-2009, 08:20 PM
  #539
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Originally Posted by alphaqup View Post
I don't know about everyone else here, but I don't give a **** about style of play. I'm looking at production. Kotalik doesn't score as many goals, and doesn't get as many assists. In that sense, he is not a Z replacement.
...and if we are touting production: Let's examine production in the postseason, shall we? Hmmmmm...

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08-11-2009, 08:25 PM
  #540
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Kotalik is a top 6 people........he puts up 20 goals plus a yr, how many 3rd liners do that? Also Dubinsky is a top 6 just like Callahan, they are young and need to be their. Higgins has proven he can score in the league.

Avery is a 3rd liner,,,,,,,,,,but a real good one at that

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08-11-2009, 09:06 PM
  #541
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Um kotalik does score goals at the same pace as Z. Actually the exact goals per game average over their career.

Really, he should have taken the qualifying offer. Screwed himself over and even if he wanted to couldn't sign with us for 3 mill.

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08-11-2009, 09:31 PM
  #542
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There's no doubt in my mind that where ever Zherdev goes he will be a real productive player in this league. When I watched him play, he would remind me of Alex Kovalev. Especially after watching Kovalev notch 21 pts in 23 post season games (and in game one against the Devils he hit 2 posts and had a semi break away against Brodeur but the puck wouldn't settle and I remember him rocketing a wrist shot just over Marty's right shoulder).

Any way, I thought Kovalev and Zubov would be career Rangers. Kovalev had an almost identical season to Zherdev's as well. Zubov lead the team in scoring that Cup year, Nemchinov scored a respectable 22 goals and 2 big goals against the Devils during the ECF.

The point I'm trying to make is maybe it is possible that if a very demanding, take no bs, fiery coach like Keenan would have stuck around, so would have Kovalev. And would have flourished as a Ranger (BTW, I'm not sure if Keenan is as hot headed now, but in his Flyers, Black Hawks, and Rangers years he was).

Maybe Zherdev's mind set is as similar as Kovalev's hockey skills which translate onto the ice. And it's possible their "mind's wander." There's no telling if Keenan was the key to Kovalev's sophomore year of success. But he did have the entire year, including camp and exhibition games to work with him.

If anyone has a similar personality style to coaching as Mike Keenan, Tortorella would certainly be one of them.

It's too late. Unfortunately this is what happens when rooting for the NY Rangers. They've never grasped the concept that kids develop at certain levels. And in Zherdev's case he's already got the tools. But like so many other kids that have been drafted or picked up early by this organization, they don't have much time to show they're super star material.

I just thought maybe "Torts" would have been the perfect coach for Zherdev. Then again maybe not.

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08-11-2009, 10:38 PM
  #543
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Zherdev has a long ways to go to equal Kovalev. At least Kovalev has proven something in his career (SC + great playoff #'s)... Zherdev has yet to prove anything.

Kovalev is also a much smarter hockey player, despite the fact that he's also inconsistent

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08-11-2009, 10:55 PM
  #544
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Okay, if Kotalik isn't a replacement for Zherdev than who is?

Don't get me wrong, I know that they're very different players. I even like Kotalik. We'll have a player who has a great one timer and an incredible slap shot. He'll be a real catalyst for our PP which is something this team really needed.

But, as someone else said I look at production. Kotalik is closest to production and salary to Zherdev so in that sense I see him as a "replacement." Kotalik will net you 20 goals 20 assists 40 points. He doesn't have the raw offensive talent that Zherdev has. Therefore, if we signed Kotalik as an addition to our team which already would have had Zherdev I would have LOVED the signing. As a player earning the same salary and having Zherdev walk... Not so much.

And I don't think that pressure is fair to put on Lisin. Expecting him to produce what Zherdev was able to produce will only set him up for failure. At least I don't expect it. I think we really need a legitimate top-6 forward capable of netting 20 - 30 goals / 60 points AND AT LEAST another second line center before the season starts. Everything else looks good to me. We're a grittier, harder team than last season with more scoring potential and we still have Staal on defense to anchor our team defensively. Another top-6 forward and another 2nd line center and we're good. Gaborik can carry and 2nd line center and make him look good. I don't know if Anisimov is ready for that.

Plus, do we even know what's going on with Dubinsky? A guy at my office told me he read a rumor in which Sather might be looking to package him in a deal for Heatley (which I wouldn't be opposed to). But if there is any truth in that we need another center ASAP.

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08-11-2009, 10:55 PM
  #545
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mjollnir9 View Post
I,in fact, DO care about style of play. And Heart! Z has no heart or passion. He can hit 60+ points every year and still be a detriment to a team, IMO. I will take a motivated Kotalik @ 3 mil per, over a lazy, primadonna like Z for 4 mil per. Every time. Also, above poster set it straight re:Z comparability. He is more Enver Lisin than anyone. At least Enver tries...
What does heart and passion have to do with style of play?

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08-11-2009, 10:59 PM
  #546
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Kotalik is a top 6 people........he puts up 20 goals plus a yr, how many 3rd liners do that? Also Dubinsky is a top 6 just like Callahan, they are young and need to be their. Higgins has proven he can score in the league.

Avery is a 3rd liner,,,,,,,,,,but a real good one at that
These two guys are question marks in my opinion in terms of their ability as top-6 forwards. Callahan played great under Torts and if he can play like that next season he can be a 30-goal scorer with a real complete game. BUT I never like to get a head of myself. This was his first healthy, complete season that Callahan put together playing at a high level. However, Dubinsky looked his best at the end of the 07-08 season with Jaromir Jagr. He hasn't looked the same without him.

Dubinsky has had 40+ points each of his first two seasons. He has scored 10 - 15 goals and produced 40 points and plays a very gritty complete game. I don't know if I expect much more than that out of him this upcoming season. I don't think a 40 point player, production wise, is a legit 2nd line player. More of a great 3rd line center. Plus, Kotalik throughout his career only puts up about ~ 40 points a season. If they're both top-6 and produce 40 points a season. We're in trouble if two of our top-6 can only produce 40 points.

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08-11-2009, 11:01 PM
  #547
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...and if we are touting production: Let's examine production in the postseason, shall we? Hmmmmm...
Still doesn't change the fact that Kotalik won't put up as many points.

And like someone else said, the best thing that could have happened was to get Kotalik in addition to Zherdev.

A line of Kotalik - Drury - Zherdev would have been an awesome 2nd line.

But Sather had to **** that one up.

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08-11-2009, 11:25 PM
  #548
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Kovalev is also a much smarter hockey player, despite the fact that he's also inconsistent
I don't really agree with that. Kovalev was not a smart hockey player at all when he was young. Loads of experience and being in every situation changed that over the years. But he was about as thick a skull as I have ever seen in the sport.

But Zherdev couldn't hold Kovalev's jock strap in the talent department. Not the same stratosphere at all.

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08-12-2009, 01:49 AM
  #549
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A 25 year-old's future playoff career can not be predicted based on his first postseason experience.

Unless we're talking about Zherdev, apparently - whose destiny as an underachieving slacker was written in stone ages ago...

I'm not saying that Zherdev will definitely excel in the post season in the coming years, I'm just saying that a lot of people talk about Zherdev's playoff troubles as a proven certainty for years to come rather than an observation based on 7 games at age 25.

Pavel Datsyuk was 23 when he played in his first post season. He played in 21 games and had only 6 points. The next year he played in 4 post season games and had zero points. Then in 07-08 he had 22 points in 23 games.

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08-12-2009, 02:01 AM
  #550
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fataldogg View Post
Okay, if Kotalik isn't a replacement for Zherdev than who is?
The top offensive winger signed this offseason will replace the top offensive winger lost, thus Gaborik replaces Zherdev.

Kotalik is more of a replacement for Naslund than for Zherdev.

The real issue is going to be replacing Gomez...the major addition here is likely Anisimov...

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