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HOH Top 70 Players of All Time (2009)

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Old
08-29-2010, 05:57 PM
  #351
seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jareklajkosz View Post
Hey guys. I've found a couple of good quotes about Newsy Lalonde playing well defensively during important Stanley Cup games. I figure this should factor into where you guys vote him in for the next list:

March 22nd, 1919 vs. Seattle


I think the fact that Lalonde made an effort to play at any position speaks to him as not just a goal scorer, but a guy who will do whatever it takes to win.

March 30th, 1919 vs. Seattle


I'd say this proves that Lalonde was definitely at least capable of playing well defensively, and in a pinch, he would do it. I think that should count for something.

Globe and Mail, January 8th, 1917


This was during a game against the Wanderers, I think just a regular season game. This line was noted after they said another important player on the team was knocked out, so I'm not exactly sure what it means - I'd like to think it has more to do with just offense, though.

Globe and Mail, January 8th, 1919, league game vs. Arenas
Not bad. But defense is definitely not part of Lalonde's reputation. And you saw that LF was able to find even more than you did about Babe Dye, even though Dye's reputation overall was as a poor backchecker.

The bit that you dug up is interesting and much appreciated, but I think that if I did the same for Didier Pitre, Cyclone Taylor, Joe Malone, or Frank Foyston, I could come up with the same volume of material, leaving them all looking about average and relatively equal. Now guys like Nighbor and Walker... they stood out.

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08-29-2010, 06:02 PM
  #352
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Thank You

Quote:
Originally Posted by jareklajkosz View Post
Hey guys. I've found a couple of good quotes about Newsy Lalonde playing well defensively during important Stanley Cup games. I figure this should factor into where you guys vote him in for the next list:

March 22nd, 1919 vs. Seattle


I think the fact that Lalonde made an effort to play at any position speaks to him as not just a goal scorer, but a guy who will do whatever it takes to win.

March 30th, 1919 vs. Seattle


I'd say this proves that Lalonde was definitely at least capable of playing well defensively, and in a pinch, he would do it. I think that should count for something.

Globe and Mail, January 8th, 1917


This was during a game against the Wanderers, I think just a regular season game. This line was noted after they said another important player on the team was knocked out, so I'm not exactly sure what it means - I'd like to think it has more to do with just offense, though.

Globe and Mail, January 8th, 1919, league game vs. Arenas
Thank you for the contribution. Each effort is appreciated at this end of the keyboard.

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10-02-2010, 09:24 AM
  #353
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It's a shame that more information isn't known about the pre-1905 players. Guys like Dan Bain, Mike Grant, Tom Paton, Russell Bowie, & Lorne Campbell gets lost in time.

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10-16-2010, 02:15 PM
  #354
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What does it take to get in on the next one? I'd like to see if I can get the credentials to participate.

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10-16-2010, 03:29 PM
  #355
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Originally Posted by Cognition View Post
What does it take to get in on the next one? I'd like to see if I can get the credentials to participate.
We still want to finish this one, if FissionFire will cooperate. I'll make sure to let you know.

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10-16-2010, 03:33 PM
  #356
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And where can you see individual participants lists? I'd like to see yours.

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10-16-2010, 06:40 PM
  #357
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That gets released after the project is completed.

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Old
10-16-2010, 07:36 PM
  #358
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Will this one ever be completed?! It's been a year and a half since the first 70 were released.

You were in past ones, right? Can I see yours from the one before this?

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10-16-2010, 07:48 PM
  #359
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Originally Posted by Cognition View Post
Will this one ever be completed?! It's been a year and a half since the first 70 were released.

You were in past ones, right? Can I see yours from the one before this?
look for the HOH 2009 list. In the main post all of our lists are linked to.

alternatively, search for a thread with my name in the title. there is probably only one, unless there are people talking about me behind my back (I'm looking at you, haakon84)

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11-15-2010, 04:42 PM
  #360
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If you guys would be polite enough to humor me but how is Bobby Clarke this high on the list? Admittedly he was before my time but from the games I've watched of him unless injuring the other teams best player is a recognizable skill I'm not seeing it.

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Old
11-15-2010, 04:49 PM
  #361
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If you guys would be polite enough to humor me but how is Bobby Clarke this high on the list? Admittedly he was before my time but from the games I've watched of him unless injuring the other teams best player is a recognizable skill I'm not seeing it.
There was a thread on this not too long ago:

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=826243

The super short version:
-3 Hart Trophies
-The best playmaker in the league and the best defensive player in the league at the same time.

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Old
11-15-2010, 04:51 PM
  #362
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
There was a thread on this not too long ago:

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=826243

The super short version:
-3 Hart Trophies
-The best playmaker in the league and the best defensive player in the league at the same time.
thank you

He has very impressive credentials and after playing the sport for many years I realize it's not a dance but his goonish behavior on the ice really sours him as a player to me. I have a hard time calling a guy that would intentionally try to hurt/ruin another players career because he was more talented a great player.


Last edited by zombieyouth: 11-15-2010 at 04:58 PM.
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Old
11-15-2010, 04:59 PM
  #363
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Originally Posted by Cognition View Post
Will this one ever be completed?! It's been a year and a half since the first 70 were released.

You were in past ones, right? Can I see yours from the one before this?
Senior year biochem major so probably not. Especially since my laptop is fried and I've been trying to recover the data for a few months. Good news is mid-December I'm wide open and next semester is very light so hopefully and I fix the laptop, recover the data, and knock the last bit out.

Then my focus is square on finding a job :/

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Old
11-16-2010, 02:48 AM
  #364
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Originally Posted by zombieyouth View Post
If you guys would be polite enough to humor me but how is Bobby Clarke this high on the list? Admittedly he was before my time but from the games I've watched of him unless injuring the other teams best player is a recognizable skill I'm not seeing it.

Must be some kind of conspiracy. Yep, never did anything but injure the other teams' best players.

*feeding the troll*

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Old
11-16-2010, 10:00 PM
  #365
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
There was a thread on this not too long ago:

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=826243

The super short version:
-3 Hart Trophies
-The best playmaker in the league and the best defensive player in the league at the same time.
Better than Orr?

Also in the "real" (ie. were all voters actually knew what they were doing) world Clarke would maybe get one of those Harts, it's very debatable that he was the Hart guy for those 3 years.

Clarke is a top 100 guy but those 3 Harts mask the truth that there were much better players than him that are lower on the list IMO.

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Old
11-17-2010, 02:15 AM
  #366
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I wonder why, then, Clarke was so loved by the voters and coaches (those coaches' polls, for example)? I thought that the Bullies were a fairly hated team then & even now, and Clarke was their vicious leader. I just wish people would make better arguments against him rather than the usual "he was a dirty SOB" (oh really?) or "he didn't have skills" (sure, sure). I don't even buy the "he was mediocre in the playoffs/international games" argument - based on what I've seen. And heck, let's say he didn't deserve 1-2 of those Harts (the only true suspect IMO is the 1975 one); how much lower that would/should drop him - considering that he was still probably the 2nd best player in the league after Orr (1973, 1975).

Being maybe the most versatile top forward (certainly ONE of them) of all time should get you pretty high on the list.

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11-17-2010, 02:55 AM
  #367
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Better vs Valuable.

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Better than Orr?

Also in the "real" (ie. were all voters actually knew what they were doing) world Clarke would maybe get one of those Harts, it's very debatable that he was the Hart guy for those 3 years.

Clarke is a top 100 guy but those 3 Harts mask the truth that there were much better players than him that are lower on the list IMO.
Better and most valuable are mutually exclusive concepts.

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11-17-2010, 01:43 PM
  #368
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Better and most valuable are mutually exclusive concepts.
No they aren't. There is a difference between the two though.

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Old
12-07-2010, 06:52 AM
  #369
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Originally Posted by VMBM View Post

Must be some kind of conspiracy. Yep, never did anything but injure the other teams' best players.

*feeding the troll*
used his stick to break the ankle of the other teams best player. as a canadian the 1972 summit series has gone from a feeling of pride as a child to shame as a young adult. i can only speak for myself and friends but clarke is viewed as a goon and a disgrace.

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Old
12-07-2010, 11:41 AM
  #370
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Originally Posted by zombieyouth View Post
used his stick to break the ankle of the other teams best player. as a canadian the 1972 summit series has gone from a feeling of pride as a child to shame as a young adult. i can only speak for myself and friends but clarke is viewed as a goon and a disgrace.
Maybe he is, but that and being a great player are mutually exclusive.

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12-13-2010, 04:27 AM
  #371
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Originally Posted by zombieyouth View Post
used his stick to break the ankle of the other teams best player. as a canadian the 1972 summit series has gone from a feeling of pride as a child to shame as a young adult. i can only speak for myself and friends but clarke is viewed as a goon and a disgrace.
You still haven't really offered anything that shows Clarke shouldn't be so high on the list - unless it is decided that dirtiness should be considered a huge minus for a player.

BTW, the Soviets weren't always so nice towards opponents' best players either (I'm thinking of those games vs. Czechoslovakia that turned bloody); maybe they learned it from Clarke?

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12-24-2010, 12:12 PM
  #372
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Originally Posted by zombieyouth View Post
used his stick to break the ankle of the other teams best player. as a canadian the 1972 summit series has gone from a feeling of pride as a child to shame as a young adult. i can only speak for myself and friends but clarke is viewed as a goon and a disgrace.
That play by Clarke in 72 was just a small example of how far guys were willing to go to win. With the pressure of a whole country on them, a warrior like Clarke would do whatever it took to prevail.........There is no shame in that and it's the reason why he is higher on the list than some think is justified

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12-24-2010, 06:52 PM
  #373
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Originally Posted by HockeyTalkey View Post
That play by Clarke in 72 was just a small example of how far guys were willing to go to win. With the pressure of a whole country on them, a warrior like Clarke would do whatever it took to prevail.........There is no shame in that and it's the reason why he is higher on the list than some think is justified
There are many things to be proud of in Canadian hockey and Bobby Clarke's career but his slash in the 72 series is definitely not one of them.

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Old
12-27-2010, 06:59 AM
  #374
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Originally Posted by HockeyTalkey View Post
That play by Clarke in 72 was just a small example of how far guys were willing to go to win. With the pressure of a whole country on them, a warrior like Clarke would do whatever it took to prevail.........There is no shame in that and it's the reason why he is higher on the list than some think is justified
Then Suter, Marchement and Samuelsson should be in the top 50.

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Old
12-28-2010, 03:44 AM
  #375
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Originally Posted by HockeyTalkey View Post
That play by Clarke in 72 was just a small example of how far guys were willing to go to win. With the pressure of a whole country on them, a warrior like Clarke would do whatever it took to prevail.........There is no shame in that and it's the reason why he is higher on the list than some think is justified
That is just a silly claim. Give the posters on HOH - and Clarke - a little more credit than that.

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