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HOH Top 70 Players of All Time (2009)

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Old
07-09-2011, 03:00 PM
  #426
ushvinder
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Leetch had 5 elite seasons: 1991, 1992, 1994, 1996 and 1997
3 very good seasons: 1989, 1995, and 2001
2 decent seasons: 2002 and 2004

The highest he could possibly rank is 95th on an all tme list IMO.

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07-09-2011, 08:31 PM
  #427
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ushvinder View Post
Leetch had 5 elite seasons: 1991, 1992, 1994, 1996 and 1997
3 very good seasons: 1989, 1995, and 2001
2 decent seasons: 2002 and 2004

The highest he could possibly rank is 95th on an all tme list IMO.
Also the 88 season where he had a 17-2-12-14 line and an extremely good year for the US National team as a 19yr old.


In 90 he was 13th in Dman scoring.

93 he was a PPG player in 36 games.

Also 98 he was 8th in Dman scoring, yes I know he had a horrible plus/minus but the whole team went for a nosedive from the season before.

99 he was 5th in Damn scoring and had a more respectable minus 7 rating on a under performing team.

also in 03 he was 10 in PPG and finally 05 was a member or the US world cup team, albeit mostly on reputation at that point.

A couple or most of those seasons could be considered very good or at least decent and 93 was an elite performance for the 36 games he played in.

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Old
08-19-2011, 12:14 PM
  #428
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so when did we establish doing a new list?

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Old
08-20-2011, 11:40 AM
  #429
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Brian Leetch is 68th all time in NHL scoring history. 8th NHL defensemen. 8th American, 2nd American defenseman.

34th all time NHL in assists. 2nd among Americans.

Norris x2
Stanley Cup
Conn Smythe (first American)
Captain
HOF
US HOF

Overlooking his international accomplishments.

"Barely" in the top 100 is a joke. Plain and simple.

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Old
08-20-2011, 01:04 PM
  #430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Brian Leetch is 68th all time in NHL scoring history. 8th NHL defensemen. 8th American, 2nd American defenseman.

34th all time NHL in assists. 2nd among Americans.

Norris x2
Stanley Cup
Conn Smythe (first American)
Captain
HOF
US HOF

Overlooking his international accomplishments.

"Barely" in the top 100 is a joke. Plain and simple.
You do realize, of course, that everyone we ranked ahead of him has better credentials than that, right?

He wouldn't make the next top-100, either. Pronger has passed him for sure.

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08-20-2011, 01:08 PM
  #431
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Originally Posted by intylerwetrust View Post
so when did we establish doing a new list?
Right now, we are in the preliminary stages of "top players by position," which means we need to create 3 lists by position (goalies, defensemen, forwards) or more if we split forwards into centers and wings. Once this is accomplished, a top 100 list will be revisited.

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08-20-2011, 01:09 PM
  #432
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
You do realize, of course, that everyone we ranked ahead of him has better credentials than that, right?

He wouldn't make the next top-100, either. Pronger has passed him for sure.
I disagree that Leetch shouldn't make the next top 100. I'd bump him up about 10 spots - I think defensemen and post-1980 players were both ranked two low in the last list and Leetch fits both categories.

That said, he's certainly not out of the range of where he should be listed.

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08-20-2011, 09:05 PM
  #433
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
You do realize, of course, that everyone we ranked ahead of him has better credentials than that, right?

He wouldn't make the next top-100, either. Pronger has passed him for sure.
67 guys in NHL history have more career points then Leetch.

Brian Leetch was an "offensive" defenseman. And he was one of the best of all time.

There are 7 defenseman in NHL history that have more career points.

The guy was slightly under PPG (0.85) over a 19 year career... as a defenseman.

Leetch's career totals would be considered HOF worthy for a forward.

He deserves to be well into the top 100 players of all time. Not borderline.

Also, he played most of his career with two bad ankles that have screws holding them together. Literally.

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08-21-2011, 07:47 PM
  #434
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
67 guys in NHL history have more career points then Leetch.

Brian Leetch was an "offensive" defenseman. And he was one of the best of all time.

There are 7 defenseman in NHL history that have more career points.

The guy was slightly under PPG (0.85) over a 19 year career... as a defenseman.

Leetch's career totals would be considered HOF worthy for a forward.

He deserves to be well into the top 100 players of all time. Not borderline.

Also, he played most of his career with two bad ankles that have screws holding them together. Literally.
Don't you understand how irrelevant that is?

Bobby Orr is 91st.

Larry Robinson is 85th.

Red Kelly is 125th.

Even Rocket Richard is only 83rd.

I love Leetch but I'm not ranking him where these guys are.

But Phil Housley is 37th.

And no one is ranking him where Leetch is.

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08-31-2011, 01:19 AM
  #435
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Originally Posted by Dennis Bonvie View Post
Don't you understand how irrelevant that is?

Bobby Orr is 91st.

Larry Robinson is 85th.

Red Kelly is 125th.

Even Rocket Richard is only 83rd.

I love Leetch but I'm not ranking him where these guys are.

But Phil Housley is 37th.

And no one is ranking him where Leetch is.
It cant be irrelevant.

When you are 68th all time in points in a 90+ year old league, and have gathered the other tangible and intangible accolades to go with it, you are a top 100 player of all time.

All of it is relevant.

Stanley Cup, Conn Smythe, Norris x2, Calder, captain, Olympic Silver, World Cup Gold, 10 All-Star appearances, US Hall of Fame, Hockey Hall of Fame, number retired by an "Original Six" franchise, 1000+ games, 1000+ points.

All those equal top 100 player of all time.

Part of being "great" is also having the longevity to be "great".

Leetch was able to play, through a lot (two bad ankles), to accomplish what he accomplished.

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08-31-2011, 03:11 AM
  #436
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
It cant be irrelevant.

When you are 68th all time in points in a 90+ year old league, and have gathered the other tangible and intangible accolades to go with it, you are a top 100 player of all time.
When you played in an era that was conducive to accumulating big numbers, it can be irrelevant.

Ever notice that almost every one of leaders in almost every category played after expansion? That's because post explansion players were playing more games per season, not because they were better.

Guys like Sprague Cleghorn and Eddie Gerard, who played 20 games per season can't be expected to put up 1000+ points. Even guys like Doug Harvey and Bill Gadsby, who played 70 games, are at a distinct disadvantage to Brian Leetch, who played 80.

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12-07-2011, 05:10 PM
  #437
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Hasek ranked 12 of all time?!? This is a joke right? He's not even top 5 greatest goalies ever let alone being ranked 12th greatest player all time, above Broduer, Plante, and Roy nope not buying that hype

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12-07-2011, 05:58 PM
  #438
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Originally Posted by RespectTheMajor View Post
Hasek ranked 12 of all time?!? This is a joke right? He's not even top 5 greatest goalies ever let alone being ranked 12th greatest player all time, above Broduer, Plante, and Roy nope not buying that hype
The thing with Hasek is that he might have posted 3 of the 5 top seasons of any goalies on a team that was, aside him, barely above replacement level.

He also had some significant success in Czech Republic, which tend to be somewhat overlooked here.

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12-07-2011, 06:19 PM
  #439
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I love when random posters come in, take a look at a list that was researched, debated and voted on by multiple knowledgeable posters, find one thing they disagree with and call it a "joke" without asking any questions about where the conclusion came from.

Hasek was the best goaltender in every league he played in for close to two decades, save for a couple of years of transitioning to North America.

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12-07-2011, 06:34 PM
  #440
Dennis Bonvie
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Originally Posted by RespectTheMajor View Post
Hasek ranked 12 of all time?!? This is a joke right? He's not even top 5 greatest goalies ever let alone being ranked 12th greatest player all time, above Broduer, Plante, and Roy nope not buying that hype
Hasek won 6 Vezina Trophies in an 8 year span (not to mention 2 Hart trophies, the only goalie to ever get two).

I belief Brodeur & Roy were in the league at that time but somehow didn't win any in those 8 years.

Oh those voters, what a joke.

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Old
12-18-2011, 03:50 AM
  #441
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Why is Selanne not on here.

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12-18-2011, 04:45 AM
  #442
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Why is Selanne not on here.
Brett hull isnt even in the top 70. What makes Selanne that much better than Hull?

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12-18-2011, 11:30 AM
  #443
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Brett hull isnt even in the top 70. What makes Selanne that much better than Hull?
Longevity and a much better international career but the list was in 2009. Hull also had a very specific peak that was influenced by Oates. Selanne has had success in different situations.

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Old
12-18-2011, 12:17 PM
  #444
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Brett hull isnt even in the top 70. What makes Selanne that much better than Hull?
I think that's going to make for a good debate when we do the right-wingers list.

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Old
12-18-2011, 12:26 PM
  #445
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I think that's going to make for a good debate when we do the right-wingers list.
Agree. I see them as very similar - Selanne has more longevity as an elite player, Hull has the slightly higher peak. Hull had Oates, but Selanne was generally in favorable positions to put up points in his good years, too

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12-19-2011, 07:58 PM
  #446
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As a person growing up just north of Winnipeg, I had the pleasure and privilege of watching Dale Hawerchuk play a few dozen times as a member of the Winnipeg Jets, and once, late in his career, as a member of the Philadlephia Flyers. While he wasn't listed in your top 70, Peter Stastny was 68th or so in your previous top 100 list. Hawerchuk was nowhere to be seen. Just curious as to why that is?

Both had similar careers. Was it Stastny's slightly higher peak? International play? Some additional element he brought to the game? Also, was Hawerchuk in serious discussions to be considered one of the top 70 or 100 in the game?? Did he just fall short?............like 105 -110??

I'm also hoping if a new top - 100 list is made, Selanne makes it in. He deserves it, not only based on his NHL career, but his international career as well

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Old
12-28-2011, 04:53 AM
  #447
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Just to play Devil's Advocate here, from what I've heard the Russian fans & players have a greater appreciation for the aesthetics of the game. They would probably rank Lafleur higher in this poll than most North Americans. Could be why Kharlamov is considered the best. They love those lovely(style-wise) players.
Interesting statement (Why Kharlamov and similar "Aesthetics" are in good ranking)

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Old
12-28-2011, 01:23 PM
  #448
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Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy View Post
As a person growing up just north of Winnipeg, I had the pleasure and privilege of watching Dale Hawerchuk play a few dozen times as a member of the Winnipeg Jets, and once, late in his career, as a member of the Philadlephia Flyers. While he wasn't listed in your top 70, Peter Stastny was 68th or so in your previous top 100 list. Hawerchuk was nowhere to be seen. Just curious as to why that is?

Both had similar careers. Was it Stastny's slightly higher peak? International play? Some additional element he brought to the game? Also, was Hawerchuk in serious discussions to be considered one of the top 70 or 100 in the game?? Did he just fall short?............like 105 -110??

I'm also hoping if a new top - 100 list is made, Selanne makes it in. He deserves it, not only based on his NHL career, but his international career as well
Dale and Peter are very close IMO but Peter has a slightly better resume and aged better as well while Dale was done at 33.

I wasn't part of that project but look forward to seeing both of them in the top centers project coming up.

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Old
01-06-2012, 04:33 AM
  #449
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Hasek over Roy and Plante?
Messier over Jagr?

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01-06-2012, 04:35 AM
  #450
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also suprised Selanne wasn't put in there. If Forsberg is in there, why not Teemu?

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