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Old
08-06-2009, 08:37 PM
  #101
Volcanologist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EazyB97 View Post
Hahaha, what? Why would Ferguson leak that Detroit and Ottawa were interested in Raycroft before the trade was made? It was TSN reporting it and they reported it BEFORE the Leafs even made the deal. When the announcement was being made, some thought it was Ottawa getting Raycroft.
It's extremely pathetic that people still cling to a single rumour as the last bastion of defence for JFJ in the Raycroft trade. It's the flimsiest of limbs to back out onto, it really is.

Not as pathetic as still defending that idiot, mind, but close.

There is no defence of that trade. Give it up.

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08-06-2009, 08:41 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Volcanologist View Post
It's extremely pathetic that people still cling to a single rumour as the last bastion of defence for JFJ in the Raycroft trade. It's the flimsiest of limbs to back out onto, it really is.

Not as pathetic as still defending that idiot, mind, but close.

There is no defence of that trade. Give it up.
It's not a defense of the trade itself, it's a defense of the idiotic and untrue criticisms that Raycroft was unwanted by anyone. I guess some, like yourself, aren't able to seperate the deal from the desire at the time.

As for the rumour. I'm confident we've seen people post articles where the Boston GM speaks of this. So the "rumour" is just as strong as the Kaberle for Carter "Rumour" and the Montreal "offer" for Sundin, or the Lecavalier to Toronto "Rumour" under Watters watch.

I find it pathetic you aren't able to understand this. I'm NOT defending the move, I'm defending the untruths around it. The deal itself, was bad. He traded for a poor goalie, and traded our best prospect at the time. That's a bad move. What isn't bad is the fact Raycroft was unwanted by other teams, since it's a lie.

This is from a thread around the time of the move. Link is unfortunately out of date, but I doubt mooseOAK made up a quote and fake link to defend the move.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseOAK
Gorton said it was tough to pull the trigger.
“It was a hard decision,” said Gorton, who had entertained lots of offers, including a first-rounder in yesterday’s draft.

Boston Herald (http://bruins.bostonherald.com/bruin...ticleid=145428)


Last edited by EazyB97: 08-06-2009 at 08:51 PM.
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Old
08-06-2009, 08:42 PM
  #103
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Imagine if they ever do a film called: JFJ

I would, laugh-a-lot records.

I'm all bout that Burke!

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08-06-2009, 08:52 PM
  #104
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my friend Montey Brewster describles Ferguson perfectly.


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08-06-2009, 10:30 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by EazyB97 View Post
It's not a defense of the trade itself, it's a defense of the idiotic and untrue criticisms that Raycroft was unwanted by anyone. I guess some, like yourself, aren't able to seperate the deal from the desire at the time.

As for the rumour. I'm confident we've seen people post articles where the Boston GM speaks of this. So the "rumour" is just as strong as the Kaberle for Carter "Rumour" and the Montreal "offer" for Sundin, or the Lecavalier to Toronto "Rumour" under Watters watch.
Not at all. I don't see anywhere in that Boston quote where it says Detroit and Ottawa were willing to offer their 1st round picks. It claims somebody did, who knows who it was or where that pick was. By itself that proves nothing other than there was one stupid team other than Toronto. This means Raycroft was a wanted commodity around the league, coming off a typically crappy season?

It's not even close to as strong, by the way. The Lecavalier deal has been confirmed by all parties involved and has been quite well-documented over the years, and those other deals had a lot more legs to them than some single mythical TSN rumour. In fact, we only ever had mooseOAK claiming TSN posted that, and somehow now you've accepted as fact that they did. I never saw a link.

Quote:
I find it pathetic you aren't able to understand this. I'm NOT defending the move, I'm defending the untruths around it. The deal itself, was bad. He traded for a poor goalie, and traded our best prospect at the time. That's a bad move. What isn't bad is the fact Raycroft was unwanted by other teams, since it's a lie.
You're not defending the move? You did a great job of looking like it.

btw I read the thread up to post #90, and I'm not sure who you're referring to. Nobody made any mention about no teams wanting Raycroft until you brought it up.

Raycroft is an amazing story, as an aside. AGAIN he has a job in the league for this season, this time with Vancouver. This is a guy who has done nothing but suck in his career....except for about 60 games with the Bruins 5 or 6 years ago. It's 2009 and the guy is still making a pretty damn good living off those same 60 games. It's mindboggling.

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08-06-2009, 10:35 PM
  #106
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One only needs to ask Brian Burke how much easier the job is when you inherit a top number one goalie in the prime of his career.

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08-07-2009, 07:14 AM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volcanologist View Post
You're not defending the move? You did a great job of looking like it.
its amazing that people are still defending this trade. the rumour that another gm might have offered a first round pick is irrelevant. the fact is that jfj is the only gm who traded a top prospect in rask for a horrible goalie in raycroft.

Quote:
Raycroft is an amazing story, as an aside. AGAIN he has a job in the league for this season, this time with Vancouver. This is a guy who has done nothing but suck in his career....except for about 60 games with the Bruins 5 or 6 years ago. It's 2009 and the guy is still making a pretty damn good living off those same 60 games. It's mindboggling.
that really is mindboggling. just goes to show that a guy can make a career from one season. that calder trophy gives raycroft numerous chances to fail before nhl gm's finally give up on him. those gm's are not the most creative-thinking bunch.

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08-07-2009, 08:18 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Volcanologist View Post
Not at all. I don't see anywhere in that Boston quote where it says Detroit and Ottawa were willing to offer their 1st round picks. It claims somebody did, who knows who it was or where that pick was. By itself that proves nothing other than there was one stupid team other than Toronto. This means Raycroft was a wanted commodity around the league, coming off a typically crappy season?
So TSN claims on-air it was those two offering first rounders. Then the Boston's GM comes out and says he had offers, that means there is no interest in your opinion? He had a bad season, but was a Calder winner the season before. We had rumours of interest, then the Boston GM stating there was interest. This isn't good enough for you? Show me comments from GM that there wasn't interest for him. So far you've just denied the claims that are backed up. Alot of teams had starters, so they weren't interested in Raycroft, but it seems those who needed one were willing to pay.


You claim it is "pathetic" I'm clinging to a single rumour. Yet I have the rumour from trade deadline, what Mackenzie said on-air (and their other analysists) and comments from the GM. You have a theory that it never happened and all these people made it up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volcanologist View Post
You're not defending the move? You did a great job of looking like it.
That's what happens when you look at a single point, not the whole post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volcanologist View Post
btw I read the thread up to post #90, and I'm not sure who you're referring to. Nobody made any mention about no teams wanting Raycroft until you brought it up.
SSJSTOM's (sp?) post was the one who made the misassumptions that I was initially clearing up, the next posted agreed with him when he was wrong on the pick. After that LTL and LeafsinSeven made some comments.


Last edited by EazyB97: 08-07-2009 at 08:23 AM.
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08-07-2009, 08:30 AM
  #109
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There was way more talk about Boston not even qualifying Raycroft in a week's time, thus making him an UFA, than there was about Detroit's and Ottawa's offer.

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08-07-2009, 09:10 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by TheTotalPackage View Post
There was way more talk about Boston not even qualifying Raycroft in a week's time, thus making him an UFA, than there was about Detroit's and Ottawa's offer.
Funny, I don't remember that at all. Not saying it wasn't there, but with offers there (especially at the deadline) I doubt there was much consideration. Do you have a link?

Found this on a quick search
Quote:
Qualifying offers to the Bruins' restricted free agents, a sizable group that includes Andrew Raycroft, Nick Boynton, and Patrice Bergeron, must be made no later than June 26. A few of Boston's Group 2's will be allowed to walk away without compensation, said Gorton, while others, such as the aforementioned Raycroft, Boynton, and Bergeron, all will be sent their qualifying offers just prior to the front office's departure for Vancouver early next week.
http://www.boston.com/sports/hockey/...long_distance/


Last edited by EazyB97: 08-07-2009 at 09:57 AM.
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Old
08-07-2009, 09:55 AM
  #111
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JFJ to me was a bad move to start with because he was to inexpierenced for the job. He later proved that he was not only inexpierenced,but that he didn't have a clue how to build a team period, in any market possibly.

His teams were soft,and he never seemed to get that.To go even further he hired a passive coach in Maurice who in the face of his players being humiliated on the ice seemed to always preach discipline first and foremost.

So he was no good in that aspect of coaching/team building either.

It was the worst teams i have ever had the displeasure of watching during jfj's tenure!

The teams of the Ballard era were much better to watch for the ultimate comparison.

These last 5 years were the worst in leafs history i'd bet. It was disgusting to have to watch.

For some reason i feel my comments above flatter jfj,and aren't close to harsh enough,but i'll just stop there.

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08-07-2009, 09:58 AM
  #112
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The Raycroft trade was so inexcusable. Why did he think he needed someone like Raycroft? All JFJ needed was a veteren "Stop-Gap" until one of Rask/Poge was ready. THere was no need to trade one of them so fast. All it would have taken is one phone call to Manny Legace(who wanted to play in Toronto badly and had no other offers at the time)

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08-07-2009, 10:23 AM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
The Raycroft trade was so inexcusable. Why did he think he needed someone like Raycroft? All JFJ needed was a veteren "Stop-Gap" until one of Rask/Poge was ready. THere was no need to trade one of them so fast. All it would have taken is one phone call to Manny Legace(who wanted to play in Toronto badly and had no other offers at the time)
as far as I remember, most people were happy we traded Rask, it left Pogge as the undesputed Heir apparent (which most people wanted over Rask) but I dont think anybody was happy that it was Raycroft we got back lol

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08-07-2009, 10:27 AM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
The Raycroft trade was so inexcusable. Why did he think he needed someone like Raycroft? All JFJ needed was a veteren "Stop-Gap" until one of Rask/Poge was ready. THere was no need to trade one of them so fast. All it would have taken is one phone call to Manny Legace(who wanted to play in Toronto badly and had no other offers at the time)
I can't think of a better description of how poor the market for number one goalies was at the time than a headcase like Manny Legace being the best option.

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08-07-2009, 12:41 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by EazyB97 View Post
Funny, I don't remember that at all. Not saying it wasn't there, but with offers there (especially at the deadline) I doubt there was much consideration. Do you have a link?

Found this on a quick search

http://www.boston.com/sports/hockey/...long_distance/
Further down in that article:

"Meanwhile, Raycroft remains the hot topic of trade speculation as the June 24 draft draws near. Hannu Toivonen and Tim Thomas both have contracts for next season (and two more, in Thomas’s case), which in itself leaves them ahead of Raycroft, who is a restricted free agent."

I remember distinctly that b/c of this there was talk of them not qualifying him. At the time the Leafs traded for him, he still wasn't qualified.

Either way, we got hosed big time, even more having to trade for another goalie the following year to try and amend that trainwreck, and seeing as how that hasn't panned out either, that alone could mean JFJ never gets a GM job again in the league.

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08-07-2009, 12:42 PM
  #116
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I miss laughing at him and his getting a job solely based on what his father did.

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08-07-2009, 12:47 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by GregHickman View Post
I miss laughing at him and his getting a job solely based on what his father did.
What did his father do? Ferguson Sr. hadn't held a GM position in 20 years.

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08-07-2009, 12:52 PM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTotalPackage View Post
Further down in that article:

"Meanwhile, Raycroft remains the hot topic of trade speculation as the June 24 draft draws near. Hannu Toivonen and Tim Thomas both have contracts for next season (and two more, in Thomas’s case), which in itself leaves them ahead of Raycroft, who is a restricted free agent."

I remember distinctly that b/c of this there was talk of them not qualifying him. At the time the Leafs traded for him, he still wasn't qualified.

Either way, we got hosed big time, even more having to trade for another goalie the following year to try and amend that trainwreck, and seeing as how that hasn't panned out either, that alone could mean JFJ never gets a GM job again in the league.
Considering that there were no better alternatives for goalies at the time I don't know what the basis for being blackballed for that reason would be.

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08-07-2009, 01:47 PM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTotalPackage View Post
Further down in that article:

"Meanwhile, Raycroft remains the hot topic of trade speculation as the June 24 draft draws near. Hannu Toivonen and Tim Thomas both have contracts for next season (and two more, in Thomas’s case), which in itself leaves them ahead of Raycroft, who is a restricted free agent."

I remember distinctly that b/c of this there was talk of them not qualifying him. At the time the Leafs traded for him, he still wasn't qualified.
So further down in the article, they discuss him being traded, not going unqualified. Worst case it appears they would've retained his rights and unloaded him later, but there was a market for him. I don't remember hearing about him going unqualified, and I can't find anything online.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TotalPackage
Either way, we got hosed big time, even more having to trade for another goalie the following year to try and amend that trainwreck, and seeing as how that hasn't panned out either, that alone could mean JFJ never gets a GM job again in the league.
[/quote]
We lost the trade, not really much doubt about that right now.

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08-07-2009, 02:02 PM
  #120
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JFJ wasn't a great gm to say the least, burke isn't perfect but he's doing a better job at least

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08-07-2009, 02:31 PM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EazyB97 View Post
So TSN claims on-air it was those two offering first rounders. Then the Boston's GM comes out and says he had offers, that means there is no interest in your opinion? He had a bad season, but was a Calder winner the season before. We had rumours of interest, then the Boston GM stating there was interest. This isn't good enough for you? Show me comments from GM that there wasn't interest for him. So far you've just denied the claims that are backed up. Alot of teams had starters, so they weren't interested in Raycroft, but it seems those who needed one were willing to pay.


You claim it is "pathetic" I'm clinging to a single rumour. Yet I have the rumour from trade deadline, what Mackenzie said on-air (and their other analysists) and comments from the GM. You have a theory that it never happened and all these people made it up.

That's what happens when you look at a single point, not the whole post.


SSJSTOM's (sp?) post was the one who made the misassumptions that I was initially clearing up, the next posted agreed with him when he was wrong on the pick. After that LTL and LeafsinSeven made some comments.
sorry top 15 pick for Toskala and taking on a jailbird with a massive cap hit. my bad, THE DEAL IS SO MUCH BETTER NOW, ALL HAIL OUR BIRDMAN OVERLORD.

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08-07-2009, 02:33 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by SSJTOM View Post
sorry top 15 pick for Toskala and taking on a jailbird with a massive cap hit. my bad, THE DEAL IS SO MUCH BETTER NOW, ALL HAIL OUR BIRDMAN OVERLORD.
Because I said it was a good deal? Looks like you're a little pissy. Upset you weren't even able to remember the deal correctly? Like I said earlier, I didn't claim it was a good deal, I said get your facts straight. It was a bad trade, no need to lie about it. At least know what you are talking about if you are going to complain.

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08-07-2009, 03:09 PM
  #123
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Bottom line:

JFJ sucked, and now he's gone.

Phew.

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08-07-2009, 04:03 PM
  #124
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I hated the Raycroft trade as soon as I heard about it. Guy has a good rookie season, then a crap one, reminded me of Jim Carey. Another goalie with early success, only to face to obscurity.

Don't worry about it, we have Pogge, he's more than enough. Yeah, what would've been wrong with having two high potential goalies in the system?

Stupid stupid stupid!

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08-07-2009, 06:14 PM
  #125
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I only read the first couple of post to lazy to read through the entire thing so i don't know if this has been said but, didn't JFJ want to rebuild and when he asked if he could didn't they turn him down or am i thinking of a different team? i don't know if this is true but, i remember hearing something among those lines a couple of years ago.

correct me if i am wrong.

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