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Granato named Pens assistant coach

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Old
08-06-2009, 11:19 PM
  #51
Jacob
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Originally Posted by Brandinho View Post
He didn't know what he was doing. He delegated to his assistant coaches when he got overwhelmed, he didn't know how to manage his personnel properly, he's awful at managing the PP (if you thought we passed too much before, just wait)...

Quite frankly, he's just an idiot. True, he's probably a better assistance than head coach but he's also one of the most embarrassingly awful head coaches in NHL history.
I don't buy it. Why was he kept on as an assistant, and then hired as head coach a second time?

There's no question the teams he coached were varying degrees of disappointing. I just don't see much if it being blamed on Granato.

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Old
08-06-2009, 11:25 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
I don't buy it. Why was he kept on as an assistant, and then hired as head coach a second time?

There's no question the teams he coached were varying degrees of disappointing. I just don't see much if it being blamed on Granato.
You don't buy what? Everything I said is 100% absolute fact. If you want to give him the benefit of the doubt as an assistant, that's fine, but you cannot tell me that he wasn't one of the worst head coaches in recent memory. It takes a special kind of loser to fail as spectacularly as he did with the amount of talent he was given.

As for being kept on as an assistant, he was demoted. That's pretty embarrassing. As for a possible reason why, probably because he had a great relationship with the players. Probably the only good thing you can say about him.

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08-06-2009, 11:26 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Brandinho View Post
What makes you think that? The guy's an absolute moron who took this team...

Tanguay-Forsberg-Hejduk
Kariya-Sakic-Selanne
Konowalchuk-Gratton-Barnaby
Moore-Nikolishin-Hinote

Morris-Blake
Liles-Foote
Skrastins-Skoula

Aebischer

...and lost in the second round.
Scotty Bowman took the best team in Pens' history and lost in the second round. Just sayin'.

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08-06-2009, 11:28 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Uncle Jorgi View Post
Scotty Bowman took the best team in Pens' history and lost in the second round. Just sayin'.
Scotty Bowman's resume is beyond reproach, though.

Granato had two stints as head coach. One was the second round playoff exit. The other was the worst season in Colorado's history.

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08-06-2009, 11:28 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Uncle Jorgi View Post
Scotty Bowman took the best team in Pens' history and lost in the second round. Just sayin'.
Yes, nicely pointed out.

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Old
08-06-2009, 11:35 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandinho View Post
What makes you think that? The guy's an absolute moron who took this team...

Tanguay-Forsberg-Hejduk
Kariya-Sakic-Selanne
Konowalchuk-Gratton-Barnaby
Moore-Nikolishin-Hinote

Morris-Blake
Liles-Foote
Skrastins-Skoula

Aebischer

...and lost in the second round.
I see a goalie that, at his best, was above average. It's not often a team can go far with an average goalie in the playoffs. If I also recall correctly (not totally sure) this was a span where Kariya and Selanne had a few bad years including one or two prior to joining the Avs. Their careers revived after the lockout.

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08-06-2009, 11:37 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Raider Zero View Post
I see a goalie that, at his best, was above average. It's not often a team can go far with an average goalie in the playoffs. If I also recall correctly (not totally sure) this was a span where Kariya and Selanne had a few bad years including one or two prior to joining the Avs. Their careers revived after the lockout.
That's not true. Aebischer fell apart after the lockout. He was excellent in the old NHL.

The part about Selanne and Kariya isn't accurate either. Kariya was coming off an 81 point season with Anaheim and Selanne a 64 point season with San Jose.

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08-06-2009, 11:40 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandinho View Post
Scotty Bowman's resume is beyond reproach, though.

Granato had two stints as head coach. One was the second round playoff exit. The other was the worst season in Colorado's history.
True. This past season was a debacle, but the talent level there assured such a fate. The only real basis to judge him is that first second round exit, and i can see your point where you're saying they should have gotten further, but the reality is that every year teams with boatloads of talent exit the playoffs earlier than they should. Some of them are because of inept coaching, but some of them are just because the team got cold at the wrong time, or the team they played got unbelievably hot. It's not necessarily as point-A-to-B as failure=coaching issues.

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08-06-2009, 11:42 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Jorgi View Post
True. This past season was a debacle, but the talent level there assured such a fate. The only real basis to judge him is that first second round exit, and i can see your point where you're saying they should have gotten further, but the reality is that every year teams with boatloads of talent exit the playoffs earlier than they should. Some of them are because of inept coaching, but some of them are just because the team got cold at the wrong time, or the team they played got unbelievably hot. It's not necessarily as point-A-to-B as failure=coaching issues.
True, though the guy at the top ultimately will get the accolades or the blame. I want to be clear that I don't think this is a totally awful move as he's strictly an assistant coach but I don't like him and would have gone in a different direction.

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08-06-2009, 11:45 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Brandinho View Post
You don't buy what? Everything I said is 100% absolute fact. If you want to give him the benefit of the doubt as an assistant, that's fine, but you cannot tell me that he wasn't one of the worst head coaches in recent memory. It takes a special kind of loser to fail as spectacularly as he did with the amount of talent he was given.

As for being kept on as an assistant, he was demoted. That's pretty embarrassing. As for a possible reason why, probably because he had a great relationship with the players. Probably the only good thing you can say about him.
Why wasn't he fired? And why was he then promoted?

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Old
08-06-2009, 11:47 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Brandinho View Post
That's not true. Aebischer fell apart after the lockout. He was excellent in the old NHL.

The part about Selanne and Kariya isn't accurate either. Kariya was coming off an 81 point season with Anaheim and Selanne a 64 point season with San Jose.
Aebischer was never excellent at any point. Better in the old NHL yes, but far from excellent. He had the potential to be a good goalie but never reached it.

Selanne is accurate. Like I said he had a few lackluster years beforehand. His point totals dropped from over a PPG on Anaheim to less than a PPG with San Jose. When he moved to the Avs after that he ended up with 32 points that year in 78 games. You cant tell me that was all Granato.

Kariya I was wrong about as he kept up his pace for the most part but only played in 51 games that year. Also, he played in only 1 playoff game.

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08-06-2009, 11:48 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Brandinho View Post
The part about Selanne and Kariya isn't accurate either. Kariya was coming off an 81 point season with Anaheim and Selanne a 64 point season with San Jose.
Well, the parts about them having poor seasons prior to joining the Avalanche were certainly untrue, but they did perform very poorly in Colorado.

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08-06-2009, 11:51 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Brandinho View Post
True, though the guy at the top ultimately will get the accolades or the blame. I want to be clear that I don't think this is a totally awful move as he's strictly an assistant coach but I don't like him and would have gone in a different direction.
That's fair, there's certainly other very good options still out there that aren't coming off a year that had his previous employers practically begging Patrick Roy to take over before they had even bothered to fire him, and i'm hardly an expert on the strengths and weaknesses of his coaching ability. In the end, i'm mostly positive on the move for no other reason than at this point i just trust Shero implicitly

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08-06-2009, 11:52 PM
  #64
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Well, the parts about them having poor seasons prior to joining the Avalanche were certainly untrue, but they did perform very poorly in Colorado.
Poor for them relatively speaking. As I pointed out above Sellane's point totals dropped significantly after he joined San Jose and even more when he joined Colorado. Kariya I was wrong about, but as he only played a little over half the year and a single playoff game, he probably wasnt a big factor on that team at all.

I'm just trying to say that the team wasnt as good as it looks on paper.

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08-07-2009, 12:21 AM
  #65
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Poor for them relatively speaking. As I pointed out above Sellane's point totals dropped significantly after he joined San Jose and even more when he joined Colorado. Kariya I was wrong about, but as he only played a little over half the year and a single playoff game, he probably wasnt a big factor on that team at all.

I'm just trying to say that the team wasnt as good as it looks on paper.
That's a cop-out. They were signed as top six wingers. Selanne put up 32 points in 78 games and Kariya was barely on pace for 55 points over a full season. They were disappointments even taking their prior seasons into account.

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08-07-2009, 12:26 AM
  #66
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Just for complementary info, I made a little recon on the Avalanche board and compiling what they say, basically they completely trash the guy and blame Pierre Lacroix for hiring him for the first time, let alone the second. We should expect they have complaints, but they absolutely hated the job Tony G did there as a head coach.
Based on what they say, he will be terrible if he handles special teams as well. We still don't know if that's the case, though (possibly PP?).

Then again, many of them feel that he is fine as an players' coach, a guy who can handle things personal-wise and effective as an assistant.

For those who are interested, they have a thread about him being hired by the Pens:
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=670106

Not much encouraging...

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08-07-2009, 07:16 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
Why wasn't he fired? And why was he then promoted?
As an Avs fan, it boggles my mind too. The " Fire Tony Granato thread" was almost immediately popped up after he was re-signed the second time around.

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08-07-2009, 07:52 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Jeff Goldblum View Post
That's a cop-out. They were signed as top six wingers. Selanne put up 32 points in 78 games and Kariya was barely on pace for 55 points over a full season. They were disappointments even taking their prior seasons into account.
Ok, you argue with me the parts I said of Kariya and Sellane arent true, then when I elaborate you say it's a cop out, then go and agree with what I said originally?

What are you arguing here?

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08-07-2009, 09:39 AM
  #69
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Glad to see the homerism die down a bit on this and people actually bringing in constructive debates onto this subject. This was a totally questionable move and reaks of Bylsma and Yeo hiring someone they feel they can work with moreso than someone who can actually help contribute to the weaknesses of the coaching staff.

Whats Tony G's strength? Player relations, that isnt the problem this coaching staff has. They could use someone with some defensive experience and/or pp coaching abilities. Shero delegated this hiring out to this coaches, I wish he had taken the reigns on this instead of letting the coaches pick. It's like letting the players hire their own coach.

Shero has done a lot of good this summer, but this ranks with one of the worst moves.

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08-07-2009, 09:50 AM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinguin View Post
Just for complementary info, I made a little recon on the Avalanche board and compiling what they say, basically they completely trash the guy and blame Pierre Lacroix for hiring him for the first time, let alone the second. We should expect they have complaints, but they absolutely hated the job Tony G did there as a head coach.
Based on what they say, he will be terrible if he handles special teams as well. We still don't know if that's the case, though (possibly PP?).

Then again, many of them feel that he is fine as an players' coach, a guy who can handle things personal-wise and effective as an assistant.


For those who are interested, they have a thread about him being hired by the Pens:
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=670106

Not much encouraging...
it's a good pickup if he NEVER touches the chalkboard.

The PP is the LAST thing you want him to run. He might be able to run the PK w/some ability, but I'm pretty sure my high school team's powerplay is better executed than his.

Lemme explain, the classic granato powerplay.

Team get's puck.

Team dumps puck from beyond blue line.

Other Team Clears Puck.

Team dumps puck from beyond blue line.

Manages to keep the puck in the zone, insert at least 20 seconds of grinding behind the net.

Team either get's the puck cleared on them, or manages to get it to the d-men.

D-men either dump the puck back around, or team has to dump it in from beyond the blue line.

Manages to keep the puck in the zone, insert at least 20 seconds of grinding behind the net.

Finally get's set-up in the zone!!! (there's probably only like 35 seconds of PP time left)

The set-up is, one guy along the low boards, one guy behind the net, one guy crashing.

Insert a ton of passing, occasional centering attempt and at least one really bad angle shot from the half-boards. If you get lucky you might even get a shot from a D-man.

Final results, no more than about 4 shot's, and never more than one from the D.

So, if you want a PP that involves the dump and chase, 3 guy's grinding behind the net, and the D-men dumping the puck every time they get it, the Granatools for you!!

If not. ...
Epic disaster..you don't want him on the PP.

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08-07-2009, 10:13 AM
  #71
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Have to wonder how someone who had a great NHL career and spent seven years coaching at the highest level could know so little about hockey.....

Again I'm not doubting he may have had issues as a head coach but let's see what kind of role he plays here before we start flipping out.

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08-07-2009, 01:14 PM
  #72
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Have to wonder how someone who had a great NHL career and spent seven years coaching at the highest level could know so little about hockey.....

Again I'm not doubting he may have had issues as a head coach but let's see what kind of role he plays here before we start flipping out.
So... lets not critique any free agent signing, or coach hiring for this team until the player has put in a season at least with the team?

Thats a little silly, to anyone not a penguins fan this signing appears to be a joke. Too many people here are trying to view this with rose colored glasses.

Ask yourself, what honestly does he bring to the table that our current coaching staff doesnt already specialize in? He's a players coach, and is a former nhl grinder... He is awful with the PP, and doesnt have the ability to teach our defensemen.

Now lets look at who did the hiring/interview process, his former teammate... It looks a hell of a lot more like Bylsma just hired a buddy instead of someone to compensate for their weaknesses. Shero shouldve handled this himself instead of delegating this off to this coaching staff. We gained nothing with this move, while it might not "hurt" the team it really doesnt do anything to help and many of us (myself included) were hoping that this assistant coaching spot would be used to bring someone on board who would really help with the obvious weaknesses/holes in this coaching staff.

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08-07-2009, 01:43 PM
  #73
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The biggest weakness in our coaching staff is experience, and Granato brings that.

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08-07-2009, 01:47 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Danglestopper View Post
it's a good pickup if he NEVER touches the chalkboard.

The PP is the LAST thing you want him to run. He might be able to run the PK w/some ability, but I'm pretty sure my high school team's powerplay is better executed than his.

Lemme explain, the classic granato powerplay.

Team get's puck.

Team dumps puck from beyond blue line.

Other Team Clears Puck.

Team dumps puck from beyond blue line.

Manages to keep the puck in the zone, insert at least 20 seconds of grinding behind the net.

Team either get's the puck cleared on them, or manages to get it to the d-men.

D-men either dump the puck back around, or team has to dump it in from beyond the blue line.

Manages to keep the puck in the zone, insert at least 20 seconds of grinding behind the net.

Finally get's set-up in the zone!!! (there's probably only like 35 seconds of PP time left)

The set-up is, one guy along the low boards, one guy behind the net, one guy crashing.

Insert a ton of passing, occasional centering attempt and at least one really bad angle shot from the half-boards. If you get lucky you might even get a shot from a D-man.

Final results, no more than about 4 shot's, and never more than one from the D.

So, if you want a PP that involves the dump and chase, 3 guy's grinding behind the net, and the D-men dumping the puck every time they get it, the Granatools for you!!

If not. ...
Epic disaster..you don't want him on the PP.
You must have missed our PP last season if you think our PP will suffer. We got the great Mike Yeo!!!!

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Old
08-07-2009, 01:50 PM
  #75
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Quote:
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The biggest weakness in our coaching staff is experience, and Granato brings that.
Is experience doing a horrible job good experience? And frankly its very little experience at that.

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