HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Maple Leafs' mid-summer report - Toronto Star/Hunter

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-06-2009, 07:13 PM
  #26
eyeball11
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 12,002
vCash: 500
What I liked about Schenn's season was the steps. The first 1/3 he didn't do much of what you'd expect (knowing his style). The second third, he started to obliterate people. The last third, he started to bring the offense. It really seemed to me that he waited to get comfortable with the speed and different aspects before he started to take different risks. I think he will surprise a bit with his offense. I hope he turns into a 30 - 40 point guy.

eyeball11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2009, 07:20 PM
  #27
Man Bear Pig
Registered User
 
Man Bear Pig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 8,982
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
"Luke Schenn - Coming off solid rookie campaign but faded slightly toward end; must avoid sophomore let down."

Not sure I can agree with that.

Last 14 games:

14 GP 1 G 7 A 8 Pts +4

First 56 games:

56 GP 1 G 5 A 6 Pts -16

If Luke kept the pace of his last 14 games over an 82 game schedule, he'd be a 47 point +23 defenseman. If we ever get that out of Luke, we've hit gold.
Alot of people thought Luke was gassed by the end of the season which he probably was but the stats say something else...

Man Bear Pig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2009, 07:28 PM
  #28
WTFMAN99
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,650
vCash: 500
Poor Schenn..I know a lot of the times last season he'd be putting up some nice +/- only to have late 3rd period blow ups screw him over. Especially the Pogge games.

WTFMAN99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2009, 08:58 PM
  #29
Cheli
Registered User
 
Cheli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Toronto/Waterloo
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,698
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTL View Post
Burke needs to add a few tenacious forecheckers (with speed) up front that can cause a few turnovers. Without them the "in your face hockey" is impossible to implement. One on the top two lines and one on the bottom two.

Desired setup:

<Power Forward> <Playmaker> <Sniper>
<Forechecker> <Two-way> <Big Scorer>
<Defensive Guru> <Big Shutdown> <Forechecker>
<Defensive Fighter> <Faceoff/PK> <PK expert>
<Scraper>
Hmm, I like this set-up. Though it seems to me that the two-way centre could be replaced by another playmaker or so. Or that the forechecker would need to have significant offense too. I just don't see enough offense coming from that line if two-thirds are forechecker + two-way guy.

I'm also sad because I love power forwards and it doesn't seem like the Leafs have many prospects in the area. I'm not too familiar with the 2009 draftees, do any of them have that kind of upside? Hayes and Champagne are the only PF prospects that come to mind and they both sound more like bottom 6 guys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WTFMAN99 View Post
Poor Schenn..I know a lot of the times last season he'd be putting up some nice +/- only to have late 3rd period blow ups screw him over. Especially the Pogge games.
I still remember that crazy steak Stamkos made him once. 6 goals against night...

Cheli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2009, 09:01 PM
  #30
ugotmybeef*
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: LA BABY!!
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,391
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheli View Post
Hmm, I like this set-up. Though it seems to me that the two-way centre could be replaced by another playmaker or so. Or that the forechecker would need to have significant offense too. I just don't see enough offense coming from that line if two-thirds are forechecker + two-way guy.

I'm also sad because I love power forwards and it doesn't seem like the Leafs have many prospects in the area. I'm not too familiar with the 2009 draftees, do any of them have that kind of upside? Hayes and Champagne are the only PF prospects that come to mind and they both sound more like bottom 6 guys.



I still remember that crazy steak Stamkos made him once. 6 goals against night...
By the time we compete I hope we has some established top 6 forwards, not some fringe ones.

ugotmybeef* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2009, 09:13 PM
  #31
Reydin
Registered User
 
Reydin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 657
vCash: 500
I believe J Hayes has a higher ceiling than bottom 6, thinking more inline w/ Clowe, Malone, D Brown. I'm thinking he's 2008's version of Kassian, maybe not fighting prowess but more attitude and confidence. We're lucky to draft him where we got him, 60th.

I have high hopes for Champagne as well, the Leafs need to get him a skating coach, he apparently is improving by leaps and bounds (faceoffs, skating, scoring, forecheck). Don't see much of him though so most info I get is hearsay, scouting reports, youtube.

Reydin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2009, 11:13 PM
  #32
LTL
Registered User
 
LTL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: D.T
Country: Canada
Posts: 28,288
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheli View Post
Hmm, I like this set-up. Though it seems to me that the two-way centre could be replaced by another playmaker or so. Or that the forechecker would need to have significant offense too. I just don't see enough offense coming from that line if two-thirds are forechecker + two-way guy.
I would expect 20 out of that forechecker
Two-way 25 goals, 35/40 assists - 60 points
Big Scorer - 25 goals

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheli View Post
I'm also sad because I love power forwards and it doesn't seem like the Leafs have many prospects in the area. I'm not too familiar with the 2009 draftees, do any of them have that kind of upside? Hayes and Champagne are the only PF prospects that come to mind and they both sound more like bottom 6 guys.
None at the moment who could come close to filling that bill. Hayes has the size but isn't overly aggressive. Kenny Ryan or Dale Mitchell could be that 2nd line "big scorer" I spoke about. Neither are tall but both are built and use it.

LTL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-07-2009, 03:56 PM
  #33
Cool Beans Man
Registered User
 
Cool Beans Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Ontario
Posts: 3,628
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTL View Post


Not that hard core.
haha just checking, saw it on the road and it made sense.

Cool Beans Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-08-2009, 04:22 PM
  #34
dimi78
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,041
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTL View Post
Definitely agree with Wilson.
I agree if that were to be true with a youth movement. All of Burke's moves go against what Wilson said in that article and even traded 1 of there better young players in result of this.

From Burke's mouth he said that he wants to leave 1 or maybe 2 spots open for some young guy to make the team and he expects Tlusty to make noise at camp in being 1 if not the lone young player to make the team. Where are all these young guys going to fit in that Wilson said if there is only going to be 1 or 2 spots top for young guys.

There is NO YOUTH MOVEMENT here but there is one on the Marley's. Mitchell is in jeopardy of loosing his job and so is White with the roster being as it is and wouldn't be surprised if both are traded before or sometime through the year if the opportunity rose for some immediate help. So far if Burke doesn't make some multiple trades to open more spots for youth he's doing the exact opposite of what Wilson is saying that will happen.

So far Burke is doing the exact same thing that Fletcher, Quinn and JFJ did just hope this time a retool over a rebuild works out. The problem is a retool almost never works out before establishing a good young to in there prime core 1st.

It looks like he's buying a year of not throwing guys the organization holds high from the youth strait into the NHL. He believes in playing in the AHL before going to the NHL and the fact that a number of players are UFA's next year depending on what the kids like Bozak, Hansen, Stefanovich, Stalberg do there opportunity will be next year not this to become regulars and continue developing in the NHL.

That is of course if Burke doesn't trade them 1st.

dimi78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-08-2009, 05:12 PM
  #35
LTL
Registered User
 
LTL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: D.T
Country: Canada
Posts: 28,288
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dimi78 View Post
I agree if that were to be true with a youth movement. All of Burke's moves go against what Wilson said in that article and even traded 1 of there better young players in result of this.

From Burke's mouth he said that he wants to leave 1 or maybe 2 spots open for some young guy to make the team and he expects Tlusty to make noise at camp in being 1 if not the lone young player to make the team. Where are all these young guys going to fit in that Wilson said if there is only going to be 1 or 2 spots top for young guys.

There is NO YOUTH MOVEMENT here but there is one on the Marley's. Mitchell is in jeopardy of loosing his job and so is White with the roster being as it is and wouldn't be surprised if both are traded before or sometime through the year if the opportunity rose for some immediate help. So far if Burke doesn't make some multiple trades to open more spots for youth he's doing the exact opposite of what Wilson is saying that will happen.

So far Burke is doing the exact same thing that Fletcher, Quinn and JFJ did just hope this time a retool over a rebuild works out. The problem is a retool almost never works out before establishing a good young to in there prime core 1st.

It looks like he's buying a year of not throwing guys the organization holds high from the youth strait into the NHL. He believes in playing in the AHL before going to the NHL and the fact that a number of players are UFA's next year depending on what the kids like Bozak, Hansen, Stefanovich, Stalberg do there opportunity will be next year not this to become regulars and continue developing in the NHL.

That is of course if Burke doesn't trade them 1st.
All signs point towards it but until the official opening day roster is set it's too early to call it off.

Personally, I'm waiting to see how Burke/Wilson spin it once we've gone with an all vet lineup.

LTL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-08-2009, 05:25 PM
  #36
Man Bear Pig
Registered User
 
Man Bear Pig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 8,982
vCash: 500
Schenn with Komi or Beauch is going to effin awesome. Can't wait to see Santa's workshop a.k.a Montreal's first line go through the glass.

Man Bear Pig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-08-2009, 05:29 PM
  #37
Mess
Global Moderator
 
Mess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 60,184
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTL View Post
All signs point towards it but until the official opening day roster is set it's too early to call it off.

Personally, I'm waiting to see how Burke/Wilson spin it once we've gone with an all vet lineup.
They're going to say they owe it to Leaf Fans and the ACC seat and ticket holders to ice the best team it thinks allows then to win each game regardless of age.

The young players will have to earn their spots, and will not simply be given them even during this rebuild process. There will be no feeling of entitlement from anyone on this team now that they are in charge..

Spending big on UFA's, and spending to the Cap ceiling was always the real goal with the attempt to make the playoffs ASAP.. Currently the "rebuild" process is buying them time to get there under the premise its not going to happen over night.

Mess is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-08-2009, 05:38 PM
  #38
LTL
Registered User
 
LTL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: D.T
Country: Canada
Posts: 28,288
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
They're going to say they owe it to Leaf Fans and the ACC seat and ticket holders to ice the best team it thinks allows then to win each game regardless of age.

The young players will have to earn their spots, and will not simply be given them even during this rebuild process.
Something to think about:

Who will Bozak, Hanson, Stalberg, Tlusty, possibly Kadri (in a few seasons) replace this season or next?

Would Burke actually sign Bozak and Hanson just to bury or trade them to another team?


LTL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-08-2009, 06:15 PM
  #39
asdf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Country:
Posts: 2,035
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dimi78 View Post
I agree if that were to be true with a youth movement. All of Burke's moves go against what Wilson said in that article and even traded 1 of there better young players in result of this.

From Burke's mouth he said that he wants to leave 1 or maybe 2 spots open for some young guy to make the team and he expects Tlusty to make noise at camp in being 1 if not the lone young player to make the team. Where are all these young guys going to fit in that Wilson said if there is only going to be 1 or 2 spots top for young guys.

There is NO YOUTH MOVEMENT here but there is one on the Marley's. Mitchell is in jeopardy of loosing his job and so is White with the roster being as it is and wouldn't be surprised if both are traded before or sometime through the year if the opportunity rose for some immediate help. So far if Burke doesn't make some multiple trades to open more spots for youth he's doing the exact opposite of what Wilson is saying that will happen.

So far Burke is doing the exact same thing that Fletcher, Quinn and JFJ did just hope this time a retool over a rebuild works out. The problem is a retool almost never works out before establishing a good young to in there prime core 1st.

It looks like he's buying a year of not throwing guys the organization holds high from the youth strait into the NHL. He believes in playing in the AHL before going to the NHL and the fact that a number of players are UFA's next year depending on what the kids like Bozak, Hansen, Stefanovich, Stalberg do there opportunity will be next year not this to become regulars and continue developing in the NHL.

That is of course if Burke doesn't trade them 1st.
Patience, Burke will clear things up by the time the season starts. There is a bit of a logjam right now, but it's not like he's directly giving up youth for veterans.

Just a question though, what are the technical differences between a rebuild and retool? Because you're lumping Fletcher, JFJ, and Quinn together but not all of them operated the same way. JFJ and Quinn clearly sacrificed youth because they had to make the playoffs. Fletcher brought in some veterans (that theoretically took spots away from youngsters) and got rid of some youth that he didn't see having a future here. The result was our best draft pick in years. This is similar to what Burke has done so far so lets see what happens.

asdf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-08-2009, 06:50 PM
  #40
Mess
Global Moderator
 
Mess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 60,184
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTL View Post
Something to think about:

Who will Bozak, Hanson, Stalberg, Tlusty, possibly Kadri (in a few seasons) replace this season or next?

Would Burke actually sign Bozak and Hanson just to bury or trade them to another team?

All prospects are suspects until proven otherwise and there are no guarantees for NHL success.

The hopes of signing many, is that a few make it through to the big team.. With all draft picks and prospects only the strong survive and make it, and they end up cannibalizing each other for the few spots that remain open on the parent team..

This years team based on the vet additions could actually start the season with only rookie Gustavsson on the opening night roster, and he will be handed his spot due to lack of competition. Not exactly a ringing endorsement to a "Youth Movement", but it appears to be the Maple Leaf way of doing things and why we're currently in the 43rd year of our rebuilding program.

This time the only thing we can hope for is better end results then the previous rebuild attempts. The more things change the more they stay the same our Leafs.

Mess is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-08-2009, 06:59 PM
  #41
Volcanologist
Spark up a Dubas
 
Volcanologist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Kessel Apocalypse
Country: Germany
Posts: 20,584
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie79 View Post
Orr. Primeau. Mayers. etc....*cough*
And how many minutes are those guys going to play a game?

Volcanologist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-08-2009, 11:44 PM
  #42
dimi78
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,041
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdf View Post
Patience, Burke will clear things up by the time the season starts. There is a bit of a logjam right now, but it's not like he's directly giving up youth for veterans.

Just a question though, what are the technical differences between a rebuild and retool? Because you're lumping Fletcher, JFJ, and Quinn together but not all of them operated the same way. JFJ and Quinn clearly sacrificed youth because they had to make the playoffs. Fletcher brought in some veterans (that theoretically took spots away from youngsters) and got rid of some youth that he didn't see having a future here. The result was our best draft pick in years. This is similar to what Burke has done so far so lets see what happens.
Rebuild to me means youth movement and going through growing pains and developing the core of the team in house retooling means trading for and signing established players to win as quickly as possible.

Fletcher turned the Leafs around in the 90's by retooling no youth movement, Quinn took over from Mike Smith I believe his name was who was rebuilding around Sundin and Joseph and retooled all his work to what we got. Burke is going the same route retooling not rebuilding just hope 2 or 3 young guys make it impossible for them to send down or trade. Not only has this team not won a championship since 67 but can you name who the last elite star player the Leafs drafted and developed in house was?

Don't you think that there is link between that and not winning since 67 because I do. Through the entire Quinn era Kaberle was the lone player drafted and developed into an all star 7 years 1 player worth talking about came from him. Now look at all past Stanley cup teams and you will see a hell of a better job in this regard mainly because they rebuild not retooled.

Even Detroit rebuild on the fly. They went from the Yzerman, Fedorov era right to the Datsuk, Zetterberg era with both era's having a large influx of in house players as the core of the teams.

dimi78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:02 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.