IIHF World ChampionshipDiscuss International Tournaments like the WJC, Olympics, and World Cup, as they take place, or discuss past tournaments. performances.
Kovalev is not a superstar any more and Morozov and Radulov never were close to superstars. Canada has at least 25 playes that are better than any of those guys.
Oh yeah? Then why do fans of Montreal and Nashville miss them so much? Both were best players on two NHL clubs. And Morozov has been the best player of KHL for several years straight. I know you don't care much about KHL, but it's not really that far behind NHL now.
Lecavelier also had an extremely good 2007-2008 season up until he injured his shoulder. Last year, he was still recovering from surgery for much of it and was hampered by coaching, imo.
Yeah, sorry I forgot about those injuries. I hope Vinny is all healthy and ready to go this year. A motivated Vinny is one scary ass player.
At least get the Canadian defense pairings reasonably right - Niedermayer and Boyle? Top pairing should be Nieds and Pronger, and I'd take them any day of the week over Gonchar-Volchenkov (admittedly an under-rated pairing). It looks like you aren't a big fan of Pronger, but the guy has proved consistenly (and recently) that he's a top-5 defenceman in the NHL. As has Nieds.
I can't get my D-pairings right, because I don't know them. And neither does anybody else, including coaches at this point. Pronger is way over the hill, he is slow, unreliable, and prone to taking stupid penalties. If you guys learned anything from Turin, you'll keep him off the team. Volchenkov is now in his prime, the best defenseman in Ottawa. Gonchar is the best defenseman in Pittsburgh, and you saw the difference he makes there. I take them over old warhorse Scott and either Boyle or Pronger.
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Markov is an excellent defenseman (though not, in my opinion, the most complete d-man in the league), though I'd still take Weber-J-Bo as the 2nd pairing as well. Very slight edge to Markov over J-Bo, while Weber is easily superior to Tyutin in all areas of the game.
Markov >> J-Bo (like I said, Bo is only good for screening his own goalie). Weber > Tyutin, except in the first pass dept. Together, the Russians are better.
Look at it this way. J-Bo, Green, Weber, Burns, Keith -- all played at the last two WHCs. What makes you think they will perform better this time around?
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I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on the coaching staff - I think Babcock is the best in the world.
Babcock was just beaten by a rookie coach. Yes, Detroit's injuries played the role, but he had no right to blow 2-0 and 3-2 leads. For comparison purposes, Bykov's lineup at WHC09 was also depleted, but he adjusted his strategy and won.
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Might disagree with you on special teams - I think Russia's might have the edge given their top-line talent. Canada's penalty-killing looks great - basically, I'd feel comfortable sticking any one of those 13 forwards out on a 5 on 4 situation, as well as 6 of the 7 defencemen (Green excluded). Don't think you can say the same about Russia
You don't need all 13 men killing penalties. You need 4 or 6. Russia's got 'em, including the reigning Selke winner.
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the flow of the game (if these two teams ever do meet) will dictate line combinations and matchups.
I'll tell you right now the likely scenario of the game. Canada will charge from the get-go and probably score a goal. The only way they can succeed is by creating great pressure all over the ice, and this tactic is very energy-consuming. They will run out of energy somewhere by the middle of the 2nd period. If Russia does not falter and lets Canada run away with it, Bykov's troops will then take over. The 3rd period will be all Russia. Of course, there's no way I can tell the end result, but it's a likely path the story will take.
Kovalev is not a superstar any more and Morozov and Radulov never were close to superstars. Canada has at least 25 playes that are better than any of those guys.
Morozov and Radulov would be 70-80 point players if they played NHL today.
no he isnt. fact that you dont have a clue about KHL dosnt mean that NHL is much better.
Actually I have a clue about KHL..is a matter of fact I'm following it as close as I can, which is quiet often..So I do have some knowledge about the league and the players..
Ladies and Gentlemen, I do not leave my comments here often, but rather read the threads.
There are a lot of intelligent people on this forums, and you can clearly see that many of you, especially Canadians breathe, eat and exist for hockey. That was never the case in Russia, and the first ever player who brought Russian hokey to the different level is obviously Ovechkin.
Now, Ovechkin isn't better than Crosby or vise verse. Enough of that. If anything, then compare Malkin and Crosby, at least that makes more seance.
What I love about Canadians is their passion for hockey and I applaud to that. This is a great opportunity for all of us to see some of the best Olympics ever. Why can't we simply embrace it and enjoy the rivalry without all this negativity? Isn't that what's hockey is all about? The beauty of the game?
Uhm... because in hockey, just like in any other SPORT, there are losers, winners, and fans. This isn't a rock festival (and even there some people would argue which band blew another one off the stage). We love our teams, we wish they win, and we discuss their chances.
I, for one, feel that Canadians never give other hockey countries the respect they deserve. Every time they treat victory as their god-given right. This is why they are my least favorite team. I'd rather see anybody (Sweden, Czech Republic, Slovakia, even Finland -- although I positively hate their playing style) win over Canada. That is not to say I disrespect Team Canada. You can tell at this point that I don't. They are a formidable opponent. But I wouldn't mind if they lost in the quarters again. Go, Russia!
You can say exactly the same thing about Russia. If it's not Kovy or Malkin or Ovie, than it's Semin (2 beautiful goals in WHC Finals 09) or Morozov or Radulov or whoever else. With Kovalev in the lineup (I still don't think it's gonna happen, but...), they will have a superstar on every line. In fact, there is not a person on those 4 lines (with the possible exception of Zinoviev, who loves to squander chances) who cannot put the puck in the net consistently.
Thornton... when was he ever a game-breaker? When did he even give any performance worthy of his deity-like status? Heatley, yes. Nash, yes (although he is also likely to be remembered for giving Russia a PP in OT in 09). Vinny and Staal? Possibly. But I don't see Russia's depth as inferior to that of Canada. You can't judge Morozov and Tereschenko based on their lack of Art Ross awards. They don't play in the NHL.
Semin = Spezza, the guy who needed injuries to get an invite to Team Canada camp
Radulov was outscored by former borderline NHLer's Brendl and Perezhogin this year.
Morozov = 60 point guy in the NHL.
You are seriously putting these guys above a former Hart and Art Ross winner who has the second best PPG since the lockout?
They are simply not on the same level as the guys I mentioned.
the problem isn't that he, and rightly so, thinks that Russia will be awesome at forward, it's that he states it as FACT that they are the best without conclusive proof.
What's more amazing is to see some folks back the guy up on that assertion and shake their head that anyone would question it.
Some people boggle the mind.
[QUOTE=daver;20741570]Are you able to distinguish between an opinion and a fact?
Radulov scored just under 60 points with limited minutes as a 21 year old in his last NHL season. With 2 year's growth, conventional wisdom should tell you he could score 70-80 points being Nashville's go-to winger now (which he was slotted to be before he left).
Morozov's game has taken off the last four years and is now a 1st/2nd line player on national team .
When in the NHL he was good enough only for call-up national team duty but still managed .74 NHL pts/game his last 2 years. Even compared to fellow NHL Russians he's 10x the player he used to be.
Not to mention Heatley and Lecavalier looked like amateurs next to Morozov when they all played with Ak Bars during the lockout.
Semin = Spezza, the guy who needed injuries to get an invite to Team Canada camp
Radulov was outscored by former borderline NHLer's Brendl and Perezhogin this year.
Morozov = 60 point guy in the NHL.
You are seriously putting these guys above a former Hart and Art Ross winner who has the second best PPG since the lockout?
They are simply not on the same level as the guys I mentioned.
First of all, it was Radulov's first year back in KHL. It takes time to adjust, you know? He did pretty well in the NHL. Plus, in games where it matters, he is a far better performer than Thornton, who is probably the biggest PO disappointment in recent NHL history. I take Radu over Joe any day.
Comparing Semin to Spezza is borderline asinine. Semin is a consistent goal-scorer, Spezza -- anything but (he has one important goal to his credit, other than that he's never shown up, not in Ottawa, not at the Worlds). Semin's only problem is that he is on the softer side, but against Canada he did pretty well.
It's funny how you pick on 2 out of 3 people that are the most responsible for handing Canada 2 consecutive silvers. I presume Kovalchuk is next.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I do not leave my comments here often, but rather read the threads.
There are a lot of intelligent people on this forums, and you can clearly see that many of you, especially Canadians breathe, eat and exist for hockey. That was never the case in Russia, and the first ever player who brought Russian hokey to the different level is obviously Ovechkin.
Now, Ovechkin isn't better than Crosby or vise verse. Enough of that. If anything, then compare Malkin and Crosby, at least that makes more seance.
What I love about Canadians is their passion for hockey and I applaud to that. This is a great opportunity for all of us to see some of the best Olympics ever. Why can't we simply embrace it and enjoy the rivalry without all this negativity? Isn't that what's hockey is all about? The beauty of the game?
Radulov has become a premier Russian hockey player. This is so obvious after the way he performed in the last WC. He made a huge stride during the year h played in the KHL. I don't think there should be many doubters of an opinion that Radulov can become a solid 80 point NHL player playing on a first line.
Morozov and Radulov would be 70-80 point players if they played NHL today.
Some times I don't know if I should feel sorry for you and give up or try to teach you something. Saying that Morozov would get 80 points today in the NHL is beyond delusional.
The vast, vast majority of players peak in terms of offensive production between the ages of 23 and 26. Also for the vast majority of players the amount of games missed due to injury increases with age. In the prime years of 23 - 26 the most points Morozov ever got in a season in the NHL is 50. In his 7 years in the NHL, from age 20 - 27, he was already missing on average 18 games a season due to injury. To say that now at the age of 33, after 6 years of playing against talent inferior to that in the NHL, he would come back and score 60% more than he did at age 27 is pure b.s.
Assuming Morozov is not somehow super human, historical player statistics suggest at this age he would be more like a 30 - 40 point per year player.
Yet Morozov did one things that Russian nationalists love, he walked away from the NHL and returned to Russia. Because of this people like you try to make him out as a way better player than he actually is.
For obvious political reasons he has got to play on the national team's top line along side Russia's best players. If you think that makes him great I suggest you research the career of John Cullen.
This post is a perfect example of how you are blinded by Russian nationalism, and say things that are completely false and nonsensical.
Do you really believe the cr*p you write?
Last edited by Mr Kanadensisk: 08-13-2009 at 09:12 PM.
I know you don't care much about KHL, but it's not really that far behind NHL now.
From the IIHF's Survey of Players we know that the world's hockey players by country roughly break down as follows:
CAN 37%, USA 31%, CZE 6%, RUS 5%, SWE 4%, FIN 4%, SVK 1%, other 12%
We know these numbers are relatively accurate because they directly correlate to the number of arena's in each country.
Now consider that from these countries 99% of the players from Canada and the US good enough to be in the NHL are in the NHL. For Sweden and Finland it is probably 95%, Czechs and Slovaks maybe 90%.
I'm sure you will say that there are lots of Russians in the KHL who are good enough to be in the NHL. Even if 50% of Russia's players good enough to make the NHL were in the KHL (I don't think that is true, but I'll throw you a bone), that would mean the NHL is drawing from over 90% of the world's best players and the KHL is drawing from ~5% of the world's best.
If you call 5% not far behind 90% then we have a different definition of "not far behind".
Radulov was far and away the best player in Nashville before he defected.
In Radulov's last year in Nashville he had 58 points.
J.P. Dupont and Jason Arnot both had 72 points that year, and Erat had only one less point.
Were you serious with this comment?
The truth is there are lots of players in the same age range as Radulov who had much better offensive stats than him. Not only were Kopitar and Kane's stats better, but so were Horton's, Vanek's, Stastny's and Pierre Marc-Savard's.
The fact is that Radulov turned his back on the NHL and went back to Russia, and because of that you think he is a star, not because of his actual accomplishments on the ice.
The vast, vast majority of players peak in terms of offensive production between the ages of 23 and 26. Also for the vast majority of players the amount of games missed due to injury increases with age. In the prime years of 23 - 26 the most points Morozov ever got in a season in the NHL is 50. In his 7 years in the NHL, from age 20 - 27, he was already missing on average 18 games a season due to injury. To say that now at the age of 33, after 6 years of playing against talent inferior to that in the NHL, he would come back and score 60% more than he did at age 27 is pure b.s.
Morozov doesn't fall under this scenario.
Morozov's RSL/KHL point totals and level of play increased significantly after the age of 30.....and this is a league that's overall talent level his risen greatly since he initially returned. He's twice the RSL/KHL player he was even 4-5 years ago.
Considering he's proven he can play in NHL, there's nothing to suggest this increase in productivity wouldn't have happened in the NHL either.....especially considering he's easily been better than 60 point NHLers on the national team.
Yep, 70-80 points is about right.
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Originally Posted by Mr Kanadensisk
This post is a perfect example of how you are blinded by Russian nationalism, and say things that are completely false and nonsensical.
Do you really believe the cr*p you write?
Name calling, stereotypes, accusations, yak, yak, yak, blah, blah, blah.
From the IIHF's Survey of Players we know that the world's hockey players by country roughly break down as follows:
CAN 37%, USA 31%, CZE 6%, RUS 5%, SWE 4%, FIN 4%, SVK 1%, other 12%
We know these numbers are relatively accurate because they directly correlate to the number of arena's in each country.
Now consider that from these countries 99% of the players from Canada and the US good enough to be in the NHL are in the NHL. For Sweden and Finland it is probably 95%, Czechs and Slovaks maybe 90%.
I'm sure you will say that there are lots of Russians in the KHL who are good enough to be in the NHL. Even if 50% of Russia's players good enough to make the NHL were in the KHL (I don't think that is true, but I'll throw you a bone), that would mean the NHL is drawing from over 90% of the world's best players and the KHL is drawing from ~5% of the world's best.
If you call 5% not far behind 90% then we have a different definition of "not far behind".
I'd say upper tier KHL teams are not far behind NHL.....especially considering these quotes are from a few years ago and KHL is now drawing from global players.
Superleague's level is very close to that of NHL. I used to think that the best Russian players play in NHL but I was wrong: there are lots of players who could settle in perfectly in NHL but stay here. – Paul Gardner http://english.sport-express.ru/news/13_1244/
The level of play here is just below that in the NHL. I do believe that, on a big ice surface, the top five teams here can play the lower half of the NHL and get good results. - Barry Smith http://www.thehockeynews.com/article...om-Russia.html
