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World Cup of Hockey Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

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Old
08-14-2009, 08:18 PM
  #151
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Originally Posted by Mr Kanadensisk View Post
http://www.nypost.com/seven/01092009...urn_149421.htm

"I would just go there and play for them for the minimum salary," Jagr said. "I owe Mario so much because he taught me how to play hockey. If he would want me to, I would come back for the minimum and try to help him. But he doesn't need me. He has good players there."


Jagr, playing in Russia, said today he still keeps an eye on the NHL and the Rangers, and has remained in touch with Tom Renney.

So far, his former coach hasn't asked him to come back to help the struggling club that recently fell out of first place.

"No he didn't. That's why I don't talk to him anymore," Jagr said with his customary laugh.
just read it behind a words, he was saying it with sarcasm and joking in same time
its like Malkin who just says that he was sorry that he didnt played in last WC . tell me that he wasnt happy with Stanley Cup this year.

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08-14-2009, 08:21 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Mr Kanadensisk View Post
http://www.nypost.com/seven/01092009...urn_149421.htm

"I would just go there and play for them for the minimum salary," Jagr said. "I owe Mario so much because he taught me how to play hockey. If he would want me to, I would come back for the minimum and try to help him. But he doesn't need me. He has good players there."


Jagr, playing in Russia, said today he still keeps an eye on the NHL and the Rangers, and has remained in touch with Tom Renney.

So far, his former coach hasn't asked him to come back to help the struggling club that recently fell out of first place.

"No he didn't. That's why I don't talk to him anymore," Jagr said with his customary laugh.
i just give you some quotes here.......I have some homework for you. Please research what Sports Media Training is and how athletes and coaches are trained to talk to the press. I'm concerned that you are having difficulty understanding why people don't always give honest answers when being interviewed.
Happy reading!

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Old
08-14-2009, 09:12 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by ;Mr Kanadensisk20773134
Wow, Emery basically calls the KHL terrible and you are trying to use it to make the league look better. Statistically speaking KHL teams have around 5-7% of the talent depth of an NHL team. Not bad, but hardly close.

I have some homework for you. Please research what Sports Media Training is and how athletes and coaches are trained to talk to the press. I'm concerned that you are having difficulty understanding why people don't always give honest answers when being interviewed.
Happy reading
!

You're saying this right after quoting Jagr?



You might want to sit down Mr Kanadensisk; you're spinning yourself crazy.

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Old
08-14-2009, 09:48 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Mr Kanadensisk View Post
From the IIHF's Survey of Players we know that the world's hockey players by country roughly break down as follows:
CAN 37%, USA 31%, CZE 6%, RUS 5%, SWE 4%, FIN 4%, SVK 1%, other 12%
We have 5% of the worlds players, yet:

-40% of NHL top 10 point producers
-50% highest top 10 NHL points/game
-Hart trophy
-Selke trophy
-Conn Smyth

If Canada had only 5% world players you’d be who? The Swiss?...no wait, you can’t beat them with 37% of world players.
















Well, maybe if you had Kevin Dallman you would've won.

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08-14-2009, 10:27 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Zine View Post
We have 5% of the worlds players, yet:

-40% of NHL top 10 point producers
-50% highest top 10 NHL points/game
-Hart trophy
-Selke trophy
-Conn Smyth

If Canada had only 5% world players you’d be who? The Swiss?...no wait, you can’t beat them with 37% of world players.
If Canada produced with the same productivity Russia and Sweden do that would be scary, probably total domination against other teams. Instead in Russia hockey is growing in popularity due to the KHL and recent success at the IIHF level so look out for more top talent out of Russia shortly.

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Old
08-14-2009, 10:55 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by pouskin74 View Post
i just give you some quotes here.......I have some homework for you. Please research what Sports Media Training is and how athletes and coaches are trained to talk to the press. I'm concerned that you are having difficulty understanding why people don't always give honest answers when being interviewed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zine View Post
You're saying this right after quoting Jagr?
I can't believe, you both figure out that quotes in the media aren't a reliable source of information at the same time, maybe there is hope for you.

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08-14-2009, 10:57 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Zine View Post
We have 5% of the worlds players, yet:

-40% of NHL top 10 point producers
-50% highest top 10 NHL points/game
-Hart trophy
-Selke trophy
-Conn Smyth

If Canada had only 5% world players you’d be who? The Swiss?...no wait, you can’t beat them with 37% of world players.

Well, maybe if you had Kevin Dallman you would've won.
Just as the Americans, Swedes, Fins and Czechs before you, you will rise and you will fall. But Canada will always be #1 baby!

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08-14-2009, 11:00 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Siberian View Post
If Canada produced with the same productivity Russia and Sweden do that would be scary, probably total domination against other teams. Instead in Russia hockey is growing in popularity due to the KHL and recent success at the IIHF level so look out for more top talent out of Russia shortly.
Good, because since Malkin the Russian prospects have looked pretty lame.

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Old
08-15-2009, 03:36 AM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Mr Kanadensisk View Post
I can't believe, you both figure out that quotes in the media aren't a reliable source of information at the same time, maybe there is hope for you.
as i sayed before and i will say it again. you are hopeless hypocrite .... sorry but nothing else i can say.

NB: who is gonna win at 2010 OG ?? i dont know. but there is difinitely 2 main favorites Russia and Canada. they are very even on the paper . however there is only one winner after all and not suprise here if that would be someone else.

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Old
08-15-2009, 01:07 PM
  #160
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Without reading a single post in this thread I'm going to guess that it turned into a giant trainwreck.

Here is the bottom line guys, Canada and Russia are the two superpowers of hockey, who is better? Depends on the day, thats about it. And in hockey, it doesn't even really matter, because its such a complex game that a less skilled team can beat a more skilled team lots of times.

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08-15-2009, 01:23 PM
  #161
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Russia is clearly better at the moment. I can´t believe that canadians won´t admit that.

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Old
08-15-2009, 01:31 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by Kuhta View Post
Russia is clearly better at the moment. I can´t believe that canadians won´t admit that.
A good example of why this thread is a trainwreck.

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Old
08-15-2009, 02:11 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Kuhta View Post
Russia is clearly better at the moment. I can´t believe that canadians won´t admit that.
There's just no basis for this statement, unless you believe some of the rather silly things put forth by Russian fans in this thread -- like the KHL being comparable in any way to the NHL in terms of quality(despite a quote from a guy who has actually played in both leagues), Radulov and Morozov would be 80 point guys in the NHL, a line of Zaripov-Tereschenko-Morozov is even in the same league as Carter-Richards-Staal, Toews-Lecavalier-St Louis vs. Radulov-Datsyuk-Saprykin comes out "even"...

It's not even that I believe Russia has no chance or anything like that. They're good, and could beat Canada. Anything can(and does) happen in a tournament setting. But to look at the depth of talent Canada has at every position and claim that Russia is "clearly better" is crazy.

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08-15-2009, 02:37 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by Volcanologist View Post
, Toews-Lecavalier-St Louis vs. Radulov-Datsyuk-Saprykin comes out "even"...
But they are! Toews is about on the level of Radulov. He is a better skater, but Radulov is more tenacious in the crease and physical. They are both pretty good shooters. Datsyuk >> Lecavalier, there is just no better one-on-one person / passer / defensive forward of a single man in the world right now. St. Louis is better than Saprykin, but his main asset, speed, has deteriorated since his hey-day. Plus, Saprykin did more in one game against Canada, than St. Louis in two.

Remember that Toews / St. Louis and Saprykin / Radulov played 3 man-games against each other. In those contests the results clearly favor Russian wingers: 0+1 vs 2+2.

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08-15-2009, 04:16 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by Volcanologist View Post
But to look at the depth of talent Canada has at every position and claim that Russia is "clearly better" is crazy.
It has nothing to do with the depth of the teams. I think every top6-nation has enough depth to fill the roster with good quality. In tournament it´s alot about front row individuals who can dominate the game. I have seen what 2 superior(in international games) players Selänne and Koivu can do with mediocre material behind them. I think that Russia´s 3 superior players with good team behind them is just too much to Canada´s one superior player with good team behind him.

I hope that Russia plays against Canada at some point in Vancouver.

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08-15-2009, 05:45 PM
  #166
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unlike the Russians our third and fourth line can forecheck and also score lots of goals

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08-15-2009, 06:23 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by Kuhta View Post
It has nothing to do with the depth of the teams. I think every top6-nation has enough depth to fill the roster with good quality. In tournament it´s alot about front row individuals who can dominate the game. I have seen what 2 superior(in international games) players Selänne and Koivu can do with mediocre material behind them. I think that Russia´s 3 superior players with good team behind them is just too much to Canada´s one superior player with good team behind him.

I hope that Russia plays against Canada at some point in Vancouver.
Sure depth has something to do with it. But when building a team you just gotta remember chemistry. Having 4 #1 lineups from the NHL is not necessarily good thing if the top players have been used to play like 20 minutes a game or more. Top players might go cold and are not as used to keep themselves warm and ready up for the low icetime they would be receiving in the lower lines. Here is where a good energy player might be even better and more effective in his role than a first lineup star playing in the fourth line. At least the attitude is there and player is used to that role too and will surely be 100% when jumping in on the ice. When comparing teams, top 6 is indeed a good way to judge the offence but you can't forget the lower lines either, putting up the best point scorers from NHL there just feels like a bad idea. But this is a reason why I'm not the GM of any international team.

But also what has to be taken to consider here is also the fact that hockey players generally are pretty low profile guys and who have good work ethic, near the top at least, but this is a situation which would work as a true test. Also playing in Canadian soil would propably have a positive effect for work ethic even for top guys playing in fourth line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kovy4thewin View Post
unlike the Russians our third and fourth line can forecheck and also score lots of goals
For KHL players there is enough motivation (like winning olympic gold wouldn't be enough in itself for either of the teams *G* ) to prove themselves against the NHL guys and Bykov has gotten a lot out of them and it's shown in the last 3 world championships and presuming Russian players don't work or forecheck is old stuff.

Btw. the closest that we can get some speculation is from 2008 Quebec city finals (Because of the small ice). I put up the rosters in the tournament below and put up the propable guys to be picked to olympic teams, at least what's been discussed in this thread.

Canada:
Offence: Staal, Heatley, Toews, Doan, St-Louis, Getzlaf, Nash // Spezza, Gagner, Chimera, Mayers, Turris, Kunitz, Whitney, Sharp, Roy
Defence: Bouwmeester, Green, Keith // Hamhuis, Burns, Staios, Jovanovski, Giordiano, Pyett
Goalie: // Ward, Leclaire, Garon

Russia:
Offence: S.Fedorov, Kovalchuk, Morozov, Ovechkin, Radulov, Semin, Tereschenko, Zaripov // Afinogenov, Gorovikov, Mozyakin, Sushinski, Zinovjev
Defence: Grebeshkov, A.Markov, Nikulin // Kalinin, Korneyev, D.Markov, Proshkin, Tyutin, Vorobiev
Goalie: Nabokov // Eremenko, Biryukov

Canada 10/23
Russia 12/23

Propables missing; (And this is what we should compare mostly, the above guys already played a very even game where Russia took the edge, but how would it affect when these guys are added and with goalies we should think how much Luongo/Brodeur are improvement over Ward. Of course some players have become better players and some have slowed down from prime. These include Toews, Getzlaf & Green getting better. Heatley, Doan, St-Louis imo slowing down.)

Canada: Crosby, Iginla, Lecavalier, // Niedermayer, Pronger, Weber // Luongo, Brodeur
Russia: Malkin, Datsyuk, Frolov // // Gonchar //

Canada: 18/23
Russia: 16/23

My consensus on this would be that Russia will indeed have a slightly better offense. But Canada will counter it with better overall defence and improve goaltending so it will turn out very even. Having the olympic tournament on Canadian soil pretty much works out as a Canada cup or World cup tournament. There has been 5 Canada cups and Canada has won 4 of them and had silver in 1. There has been 2 World cups and Canada has won 1 and had silver in 1. So that's impressive 5 gold 2 silver out of 7 competitions. The Russian top 6 is arguably better, but looking at this statistic it gives Canada a lot of edge (home ice on best vs best).

Hoping to see the best tournament ever and let the speculation continue!


Last edited by Depch: 08-15-2009 at 08:54 PM.
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Old
08-16-2009, 06:47 AM
  #168
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I didnt read all the pages but in this particular contest the 2010 Olympics in Vancouver the Canadians have 2 assets.
1. Its not gonna be on an International Sized rink Which means a Banging style of play is definately gonna be a factor.
2. The 7th man in the stands. GM place is gonna explode which will provide extra momentum for Canada.
I think Canada wins this round against the Russians but Russia Takes the next one!
Crosby=Malkin we can beat it to death but one has a Hart and one has a Conn Smythe and both have an Art Ross. Penguins would not be champions without having both.

I do believe Canada has the edge in Defense though especially on the smaller surface!
Pronger-Bouwmeester
Keith-Weber
Green-Reghr
Phaneuf-Doughty
Burns

Thats an insane group to pick from.

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