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Old
11-16-2009, 06:22 PM
  #951
CapnCornelius
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Originally Posted by KOL86 View Post
The point is it's a very rare occurence to have an elite player in the junior league, who has led international tournaments, come in and bomb in the NHL.
Other than Gilbert Brule.

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11-16-2009, 06:33 PM
  #952
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What a gift. Win/win.

If Brule breaks out and becomes the player he was touted to be, Columbus must suck at developing.

If Brule doesn't get there and is the 30-40 pt. guy that seems likely, Columbus sucks at developing.

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11-16-2009, 06:47 PM
  #953
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Dude, what's your point?

They are his age and are getting the job done. Filatov, to date, isn't. The guys' point was that any 19 year old would look like boys vs. men. I pointed out some who were getting the job done, to this point, in spite of their age.

That was my point, dude.
I just think he's right. I can't think of a 19 yo player as well rounded as a veteran. Perhaps Stamkos. But still, he's a boy among men.

And not many 19 yo can keep the same pace of effectiveness during the entire season. Some get growing pains at first, some later. It's tough to compare situations and environments.

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11-16-2009, 06:53 PM
  #954
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The Brule example I used can also be used with Mike Richards:

If Richards had stayed a 30-40 point guy after Hitch left Philly, then obviously Hitch ruins youngsters.

When Richards breaks out a year plus after Hitch leaves, then its obvious Hitch ruins youngsters.

Its a goofy argument. Rather convenient.

There are more viable options to try and hate on Hitch for, not that they aren't being explored.

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11-16-2009, 06:54 PM
  #955
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Originally Posted by WrightOn View Post
What a gift. Win/win.

If Brule breaks out and becomes the player he was touted to be, Columbus must suck at developing.

If Brule doesn't get there and is the 30-40 pt. guy that seems likely, Columbus sucks at developing.
It fits in well with "If [young player] succeeds under Hitchcock, it was due to Hitchcock," and, "If [young player] doesn't succeed under Hitchcock, it was [young player's] fault."

Rather like how if a veteran has a career year under Hitchcock, it was Hitchcock's influence that did it.

We could really list these things all day long, eh?

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11-16-2009, 06:56 PM
  #956
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Originally Posted by Renion View Post
It fits in well with "If [young player] succeeds under Hitchcock, it was due to Hitchcock," and, "If [young player] doesn't succeed under Hitchcock, it was [young player's] fault."

Rather like how if a veteran has a career year under Hitchcock, it was Hitchcock's influence that did it.

We could really list these things all day long, eh?
I don't believe either. What do you think? Its an exercise in masturbation of too many variables.

Was my comment not valid or welcome, Ren? Too positive?

Maybe I could playfully bag on Nash to find some common ground with you? (silly winking smily)


Last edited by WrightOn: 11-16-2009 at 07:01 PM.
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11-16-2009, 06:59 PM
  #957
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WrightOn View Post
The Brule example I used can also be used with Mike Richards:

If Richards had stayed a 30-40 point guy after Hitch left Philly, then obviously Hitch ruins youngsters.

When Richards breaks out a year plus after Hitch leaves, then its obvious Hitch ruins youngsters.

Its a goofy argument.
Again, the Richards "argument" was raised by the people arguing that Hitchcock can develop smaller forwards. Which is why it is a particularly bad example. There is no way that Hitchcock can be credited for developing Richards into the player he is based on one full season in which Richards didn't reach his potential. He also didn't reach his potential the following year and there was the extenuating circumstances of injury in his sophomore season. My whole point was Richards proves nothing. So, how is that a "goofy argument"?

As for Brule, you can argue win-win all you want. But I think its hard to not see a successful Brule as indicative of a failure by the Jackets to properly develop him. On the other hand, if he fails to turn into a solid NHL player, he's no better an example of the Jackets failure than Richards is an example of Hitchcock's success.

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11-16-2009, 07:01 PM
  #958
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Howson must be questioned for drafting Filatov now.... Obviously Filatov is not succeeding under Hitchcock and therefore was a poor choice, the focus should be on Howson's insane first round drafting abilty from this point on.

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11-16-2009, 07:04 PM
  #959
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
Again, the Richards "argument" was raised by the people arguing that Hitchcock can develop smaller forwards. Which is why it is a particularly bad example. There is no way that Hitchcock can be credited for developing Richards into the player he is based on one full season in which Richards didn't reach his potential. He also didn't reach his potential the following year and there was the extenuating circumstances of injury in his sophomore season. My whole point was Richards proves nothing. So, how is that a "goofy argument"?

As for Brule, you can argue win-win all you want. But I think its hard to not see a successful Brule as indicative of a failure by the Jackets to properly develop him. On the other hand, if he fails to turn into a solid NHL player, he's no better an example of the Jackets failure than Richards is an example of Hitchcock's success.
Wow, a three headed coin, when I thought it only had two faces.

I'll agree, nobody should claim anyone developed anyone. Its just masturbation as I said. I take back any usage of examples of Hitch possibly being good coach by citing any players.

We're doomed.

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11-16-2009, 07:05 PM
  #960
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Originally Posted by Robert View Post
Howson must be questioned for drafting Filatov now.... Obviously Filatov is not succeeding under Hitchcock and therefore was a poor choice, the focus should be on Howson's insane first round drafting abilty from this point on.
So, instead of drafting the Best Player Available, Howson should draft the Best Player Available that Ken Hitchcock is Willing to Coach? Could leave him with a much shorter draft list.

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11-16-2009, 07:08 PM
  #961
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Originally Posted by WrightOn View Post
Wow, a three headed coin, when I thought it only had two faces.

I'll agree, nobody should claim anyone developed anyone. Its just masturbation as I said. I take back any usage of examples of Hitch possibly being good coach by citing any players.

We're doomed.
I'm not even sure what your point is.

If someone wants to say that Ken Hitchcock helped develop Mike Modano or made Rick Nash a more well-rounded player, I'm not going to argue the point. But Mike Richards is a case where there simply isn't the data to back it up.

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11-16-2009, 07:08 PM
  #962
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
So, instead of drafting the Best Player Available, Howson should draft the Best Player Available that Ken Hitchcock is Willing to Coach? Could leave him with a much shorter draft list.
Exactly Captain, Howson must learn to draft heavy, slow, lumbering players who check like hell in the small places....if not the draftee will be a bust...

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11-16-2009, 07:12 PM
  #963
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Originally Posted by Robert View Post
Exactly Captain, Howson must learn to draft heavy, slow, lumbering players who check like hell in the small places....if not the draftee will be a bust...
We should just trade all picks for veteran checking and grinding line players because there aren't many guys coming out of juniors who have really honed that part of their game and there certainly isn't anyone out of Europe that fits that bill.

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11-16-2009, 07:13 PM
  #964
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
I'm not even sure what your point is.

If someone wants to say that Ken Hitchcock helped develop Mike Modano or made Rick Nash a more well-rounded player, I'm not going to argue the point. But Mike Richards is a case where there simply isn't the data to back it up.
Whatever my point was, it provided a fair and honest statement from you with some class and no childish adjectives like fat and moron.

Fair enough.

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11-16-2009, 07:27 PM
  #965
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Originally Posted by WrightOn View Post
I don't believe either. What do you think? Its an exercise in masturbation of too many variables.

Was my comment not valid or welcome, Ren? Too positive?

Maybe I could playfully bag on Nash to find some common ground with you? (silly winking smily)
Feeling a little touchy tonight?

I was just illustrating the foolishness on both sides of the fence.

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11-16-2009, 07:30 PM
  #966
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Feeling a little touchy tonight?

I was just illustrating the foolishness on both sides of the fence.
More feely than touchy.

But, I digress. Later--no more "foolishness" from me.

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11-16-2009, 07:50 PM
  #967
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We now return you to your regularly scheduled episode of "they eat their own." Otherwise known as, "someone bumped the Filatov thread."

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11-16-2009, 07:52 PM
  #968
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassé View Post
We now return you to your regularly scheduled episode of "they eat their own." Otherwise known as, "someone bumped the Filatov thread."
Manibanez13 deserves a shoutout, the longest single player thread for a bust in CBJ board history.... Your the best Hitch...

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11-16-2009, 09:56 PM
  #969
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In the Brule example: It has now been what 3 years since his rookie season? That amount of time is huge in the physical and mental development of a kid. Not to mention he got his sternum cracked as a boy playing amongst men.

There is not a person here who with a straight face cannot tell me that Filatov does not absolutely look like a kid amongst men in games at his age and stature.

Someone has Howson convinced that unless Nikita is on the big club he bolts for the motherland and the rubles, plain and simple.

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Old
11-16-2009, 09:58 PM
  #970
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He's packing up his toys and going back home to mommy: http://blog.dispatch.com/cbj/2009/11...o_russia.shtml

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11-16-2009, 09:59 PM
  #971
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And that's a topic for a new thread.

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