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Old
08-08-2009, 08:47 PM
  #26
DuckEatinShark
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Sorry. I dont see anyone eating Soupy's contract until it expires. And if for some reason they do, they will not give up their top player in the process, regardless of any prospects or picks.

I think Toronto would rather have Horcoff's contract than Campbell's, not that they really want Horcoff anyways.

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Old
08-08-2009, 08:48 PM
  #27
Dark Knight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
As a Hawks fan I would offer up Beach and Hawks 1st to move Campbell
Its a done deal.

Campbell
Beach
1st '10

for

Kaberle


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Old
08-08-2009, 08:56 PM
  #28
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Yeah adding a good prospect in Beach and another 1st rounder is too good to pass up if I'm Burke. Even if it means eating a horrible contract.

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Old
08-08-2009, 08:56 PM
  #29
JohnHodgson
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Hawks run away and hide.

Campbell, one of the most overpaid guys in the NHL and a big question mark in Beach for an all star defenseman at a great contract.



I'm not a Leaf fan btw.

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Old
08-08-2009, 09:00 PM
  #30
SLAPSHOT723
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Campbell still had 52 points last season, that's pretty impressive.

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Old
08-08-2009, 09:04 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slapshot723 View Post
Campbell still had 52 points last season, that's pretty impressive.
thats the problem with the game today.... people forget guys like campbell are great hockey players....its their contract that is like a dark cloud over their head every time they step on the ice

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Old
08-08-2009, 09:14 PM
  #32
The Management
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salsabil View Post
Its a done deal.

Campbell
Beach
1st '10

for

Kaberle

If Campbell's contract is that much of an albatross (and it is pretty darn ugly), couldn't or shouldn't we offer up a "lesser" defenseman (White or Van Ryn) instead of our best trading chip and asset? Maybe throw in a pick or a prospect? Assuming the Hawks want to dump his sallary that badly that they're not looking for a huge return? I'm not a Hawks fan, but if I understand their situation correctly (and I probably don't), a cheaper, more servicible two-way defenseman like White might be more appealing than a Tomas Kaberle, whose role is effectively filled by Keith on an already deep Blackhawks defense. It gives them more mobility in terms of cap space, as well.

Supposing they even take the first round pick off the table to offset the skill deficit of Kaberle / White (likely a late pick anyhow), or downgrade it to our own second round pick they currently own. Kaberle's contract, which would become redundant with the acquisition of Campbell, could then be shipped off for prospects / picks and we wouldn't have to worry about filling a puck-moving void on the back-end (albeit, a very, very expensive back-end).

I don't know, I'm horrible at evaluating / balancing trade proposals.

Campbell's contract would be a bitter pill to swallow, though. We might not want to put our fingerprints on that one. Plus, I really liked White's play last season.

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Old
08-08-2009, 09:17 PM
  #33
Dark Knight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Management View Post
If Campbell's contract is that much of an albatross (and it is pretty darn ugly), couldn't or shouldn't we offer up a "lesser" defenseman (White or Van Ryn) instead of our best trading chip and asset? Maybe throw in a pick or a prospect? Assuming the Hawks want to dump his sallary that badly that they're not looking for a huge return? I'm not a Hawks fan, but if I understand their situation correctly (and I probably don't), a cheaper, more servicible two-way defenseman like White might be more appealing than a Tomas Kaberle, whose role is effectively filled by Keith on an already deep Blackhawks defense. It gives them more mobility in terms of cap space, as well.

Supposing they even take the first round pick off the table to offset the skill deficit of Kaberle / White (likely a late pick anyhow), or downgrade it to our own second round pick they currently own. Kaberle's contract, which would become redundant with the acquisition of Campbell, could then be shipped off for prospects / picks and we wouldn't have to worry about filling a puck-moving void on the back-end (albeit, a very, very expensive back-end).

I don't know, I'm horrible at evaluating / balancing trade proposals.

Campbell's contract would be a bitter pill to swallow, though. We might not want to put our fingerprints on that one. Plus, I really liked White's play last season.
Toronto isnt in a position to invest all their cap space in defensemen. If that indeed comes to fruition you can imagine we'll have 20 million or so invested in our top 4. Ouch !

We dont want to rip Chicago off, so Kaberle is the logical choice to head that way.

Keith cant take on the role of their prime puck moving defenseman. He's becoming a great defenseman, but he's more of a two-way guy.

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Old
08-08-2009, 09:18 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slapshot723 View Post
Campbell still had 52 points last season, that's pretty impressive.
Definitely impressive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Juice View Post
thats the problem with the game today.... people forget guys like campbell are great hockey players....its their contract that is like a dark cloud over their head every time they step on the ice
Thats the problem with the salary era. I'd love to have Campbell but you have to think future contracts at the same time.

But if Beach and a first was included it would be hard to pass up.

Campbell - Komi
Beau - Schenn

Would be a strong top four. But at 18.415 million. (NHL Numbers website used for numbers)

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Old
08-08-2009, 09:21 PM
  #35
re5piration
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Management View Post
If Campbell's contract is that much of an albatross (and it is pretty darn ugly), couldn't or shouldn't we offer up a "lesser" defenseman (White or Van Ryn) instead of our best trading chip and asset? Maybe throw in a pick or a prospect? Assuming the Hawks want to dump his sallary that badly that they're not looking for a huge return? I'm not a Hawks fan, but if I understand their situation correctly (and I probably don't), a cheaper, more servicible two-way defenseman like White might be more appealing than a Tomas Kaberle, whose role is effectively filled by Keith on an already deep Blackhawks defense. It gives them more mobility in terms of cap space, as well.

Supposing they even take the first round pick off the table to offset the skill deficit of Kaberle / White (likely a late pick anyhow), or downgrade it to our own second round pick they currently own. Kaberle's contract, which would become redundant with the acquisition of Campbell, could then be shipped off for prospects / picks and we wouldn't have to worry about filling a puck-moving void on the back-end (albeit, a very, very expensive back-end).

I don't know, I'm horrible at evaluating / balancing trade proposals.

Campbell's contract would be a bitter pill to swallow, though. We might not want to put our fingerprints on that one. Plus, I really liked White's play last season.
If White were traded instead of Kaberle and we do indeed take Campbell, what of our offense? Campbell's contract limits our flexibility in the 2010 offseason to fill in a greater need such as finding a first line forward (Savard, Kovalchuk, etc.)

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Old
08-08-2009, 09:34 PM
  #36
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Switched Kaberle with Finger and Stempniak and it may make more sense.

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Old
08-08-2009, 09:59 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by dredeye View Post
Switched Kaberle with Finger and Stempniak and it may make more sense.

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Old
08-08-2009, 10:07 PM
  #38
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Bad deal for the leafs... Kaberle and Campbell are pretty close talent wise, but that contract is horrendous and Leafs don't have that much cap space anymore with Burke's recent signings. We make that deal, and it'll be us struggling to resign RFA's.

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Old
08-08-2009, 10:09 PM
  #39
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If Burke was offered that, he would take it and run, bad contract or not.

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Old
08-08-2009, 10:14 PM
  #40
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Bruins Fan...

To Me...
Kyle Beach << Tomas Kaberle

I'm not high on Beach and IMO, he has bust written all over him.

If Toronto was looking for Kessel + Boston's 1st in 2009 for Kaberle, I can't see them taking this deal. Campbell (IMO) can be had for free (or better) and moving Kaberle for Beach is a dumb move.


Chicago jumps all over this.

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Old
08-08-2009, 10:30 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8BostonRocker24 View Post
To Me...
Kyle Beach << Tomas Kaberle

I'm not high on Beach and IMO, he has bust written all over him.

If Toronto was looking for Kessel + Boston's 1st in 2009 for Kaberle, I can't see them taking this deal. Campbell (IMO) can be had for free (or better) and moving Kaberle for Beach is a dumb move.


Chicago jumps all over this.
Chicago jumps all over what?

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Old
08-08-2009, 10:40 PM
  #42
8BostonRocker24
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Chicago jumps all over what?
Soup + Beach for Kabby

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Old
08-08-2009, 10:49 PM
  #43
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this is a good offer but campbells mammoth contract makes his value seem low.

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Old
08-08-2009, 10:50 PM
  #44
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I posted a very similar proposal a few weeks back, except it was:

Campbell, Beach and Skille for Van Ryn (UFA in '11, hence more cap space for the Hawks) and a 2nd

Personally, I think Campbell has the worst contract in the league (although he is a great player) and the Hawks are the team that needs cap relief the most for TKK next summer. That's why I agree with you that the Hawks should add a prospect or two (any two of Beach, Skille or Aliu).

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Old
08-08-2009, 11:13 PM
  #45
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ok its a deal then kaberle for beach or skille (i prefer beach), Chicago's first in 2010 and campbell. if worst comes to worst we can waive campbell and still end up with a first rounder and beach.

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Old
08-08-2009, 11:16 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redlighting View Post
I posted a very similar proposal a few weeks back, except it was:

Campbell, Beach and Skille for Van Ryn (UFA in '11, hence more cap space for the Hawks) and a 2nd

Personally, I think Campbell has the worst contract in the league (although he is a great player) and the Hawks are the team that needs cap relief the most for TKK next summer. That's why I agree with you that the Hawks should add a prospect or two (any two of Beach, Skille or Aliu).
imo this is a too much coming from chicago

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Old
08-08-2009, 11:16 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redlighting View Post
I posted a very similar proposal a few weeks back, except it was:

Campbell, Beach and Skille for Van Ryn (UFA in '11, hence more cap space for the Hawks) and a 2nd

Personally, I think Campbell has the worst contract in the league (although he is a great player) and the Hawks are the team that needs cap relief the most for TKK next summer. That's why I agree with you that the Hawks should add a prospect or two (any two of Beach, Skille or Aliu).

People who keep writing stupid **** like this need to take note. ... It is not Hawk fans creating moronic trade proposals to "save" the Hawks from cap hell. It is fans of other teams wanting to play make believe. Hoping that somehow their GM will be the knight in shining armour who will fly in and grab Sharp and Barker for a 2nd.

We don't want Kaberle. Campbell is no stalwart on defense but Kaberle is worse. The objective is to win a cup this year and the odds of that decrease if Kaberle replaces Campbell.

Get over yourselves. Please stop trying to make up ways to save the Hawks. The Hawks are built perfectly to challenge now and to keep on winning into the future.
1) Several assets that can be moved for picks and prospects.
2) Several prospects ready now to step into those holes.
3) Those gained in line #1 will become line #2 in a few years.
4) Those moved up in line #2 become line #1 in a few years.

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Old
08-08-2009, 11:24 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brevard View Post
People who keep writing stupid **** like this need to take note. ... It is not Hawk fans creating moronic trade proposals to "save" the Hawks from cap hell. It is fans of other teams wanting to play make believe. Hoping that somehow their GM will be the knight in shining armour who will fly in and grab Sharp and Barker for a 2nd.

We don't want Kaberle. Campbell is no stalwart on defense but Kaberle is worse. The objective is to win a cup this year and the odds of that decrease if Kaberle replaces Campbell.

Get over yourselves. Please stop trying to make up ways to save the Hawks. The Hawks are built perfectly to challenge now and to keep on winning into the future.
1) Several assets that can be moved for picks and prospects.
2) Several prospects ready now to step into those holes.
3) Those gained in line #1 will become line #2 in a few years.
4) Those moved up in line #2 become line #1 in a few years.
HAHA kaberle is worse then campbell, wow this made me actually laugh.Campbell has had a couple of good seasons and isnt much younger than kaberle. Just because kaberle had one bad year it does make his value crap so dont tell us to get over ourselves because at us leaf fans can admit it when we in some deep s**t like the stuff you guys got yourself into. btw good luck signing toews, kane and keith.

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Old
08-08-2009, 11:49 PM
  #49
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Won't need luck to get them signed.

But anyway good luck gettng a mid 1st and top prospect for Antropov.

And I never said kaberle sucked. Campbell (contract and all) one of the top D-men in the game today. Saying Kaberle is not as good is not saying Kaberle sucks.
The contracts (TKK) are not an issue intil next offseason. (right or wrong) Chicago is playing for a cup this year. I understand that as a Leafs fan (unless you are over 40) you can't relate but they are not going to weaken this team (Campbell for Kaberle) this offseason.

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Old
08-09-2009, 12:02 AM
  #50
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The problem with this deal is that Campbell is negative value. If the Leafs trade Kaberle, they problably don't want a defenceman back, unless its someone like Cam Barker as part of the deal, or any younger, cheaper, and similarly skilled defenceman.

The Leafs have Ian White who is an impending RFA and Van Ryn who is an impending UFA. Together, they can problably be locked up for about $5million. While neither are as good as Campbell offensively, White could be one day and Van Ryn is much more complete. Having 2 defencman is also greater than one because it'll cost about $750k to sign a quality NHLer. So, the difference you're looking at is about $3million in cap space. I don't think you'll find anyone that would suggest the Leafs would be a better team with Campbell + 750k d-man than they would with White + Van Ryn + $3million in cap space towards forwards. In fact, I'd argue that the leafs could easily be a better team with White + Van Ryn even ignoring the cap space savigns by having those two.

Therefore, Campbell would be sent to the minors if acquired by the leafs. $7million for 7 years is a BOATLOAD of money to pay in the AHL. Coming to Toronto better be more than Kyle Beach (who I'm a fan of, but he's just not enough). And that BEFORE the price to acquire Kaberle.

To get a deal like this, Chicago would be looking at Sharp + Versteeg for Kaberle, followed by Campbell, Beach, and 1st round 2010 for nothing.

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