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Sabres FA Activity, Rumors, Speculation (continued)

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Old
07-31-2009, 02:32 PM
  #1
mgeise
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Sabres FA Activity, Rumors, Speculation (continued)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
1. Technically, Stafford is a top 6 forward.
2. I would do that deal Immediately
3. Phoenix would not
4. It's not close value wise
5. Don't put it on the trade board, it will get laughed at.
I don't think it's as far off as you think, though Phoenix would probably want a pick and/or prospect instead of Paille. They already have a glut of forwards from the trades they made last year and the numerous prospects they have that are ready for the NHL. If they ever do decide to trade Doan, they won't find a deal a whole lot better than this one. I agree that they wouldn't accept this particular proposed deal (with Stafford, Paille, and Weber). I think something based around Stafford with the right other pieces in the deal could work, though.

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07-31-2009, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BloFan4Life View Post
How is it not close value wise?? For a team rebuilding it is perfect, I think.

Stafford is like you said a top 6 winger and Paille is a top 9 winger. Weber could be a top 6 D on some teams this year. If he is traded to Phoenix he would be in their top 6. Giving up 3 young guys all RFA for a 32 year old forward seems decent. It's not like Doan is even a top 15 forward in the league.
Quantity does not = Quality....

go post it on the Coyotes board or the trade board if you think it's fair value.

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07-31-2009, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaleta36 View Post
I don't think it's as far off as you think, though Phoenix would probably want a pick and/or prospect instead of Paille. They already have a glut of forwards from the trades they made last year and the numerous prospects they have that are ready for the NHL. If they ever do decide to trade Doan, they won't find a deal a whole lot better than this one. I agree that they wouldn't accept this particular proposed deal (with Stafford, Paille, and Weber). I think something based around Stafford with the right other pieces in the deal could work, though.
Paille would have no value to Phoenix. They have a ton of forwards. Weber is a nice piece, but he's certainly not the difference between Stafford and Doan.

Doan is there captain. He's a proven 30 goal scorer. He is among the best power forwards in the entire league. He is signed to a very good deal that is below market value.

I think it would take Myers and Enroth to get Doan.

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07-31-2009, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaleta36 View Post
Stop saying it is a $4 million contract. The cap hit is $3.1 million, and he is only set to make $2.4 million this year and $2.9 million in 2010-11. This deal isn't going to happen anyways, but you are exaggerating Vlasic's contract quite a bit. I believe his contact is very appropriate for what he brings to the table, and I wouldn't be surprised if Stafford actually ends up making more than him in the upcoming season.

I agree that we shouldn't commit more money long-term unless it is a perfect fit, but I believe Vlasic can be a special player in this league and his contract would be well worth it.

We don't need to keep debating this; we know San Jose isn't interested in dealing Vlasic and this wouldn't be the type of deal Regier would want anyways.
my mistake, 3 million, still not going to do it. Gilbert makes 4 mil. I was making the same argument in that case too.

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07-31-2009, 02:56 PM
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07-31-2009, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Paille would have no value to Phoenix. They have a ton of forwards. Weber is a nice piece, but he's certainly not the difference between Stafford and Doan.

Doan is there captain. He's a proven 30 goal scorer. He is among the best power forwards in the entire league. He is signed to a very good deal that is below market value.

I think it would take Myers and Enroth to get Doan.
What about Stafford, Brennan, C Mac and a conditional pick (2nd if we make the playoffs, 3rd if we don't)

I looked at their roster and C Mac would have been second on their team for goals last season. They need more goals scoring and all the guys involved would help with that.

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07-31-2009, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BloFan4Life View Post
What about Stafford, Brennan, C Mac and a conditional pick (2nd if we make the playoffs, 3rd if we don't)

I looked at their roster and C Mac would have been second on their team for goals last season. They need more goals scoring and all the guys involved would help with that.
They have a truckload of young offensive talent. The team is growing together. That deal is not even close. Doan is their Captain, the face of their franchise, and among the best power forwards in the league. And you are offering a bunch of secondary players and/or mid range prospects.

They will get more goal scoring from the development of their young players. But beyond that, how they heck does subtracting their 30 goal scoring Captain help improve their overall team goalscoring ??????
Ask youself how the Coyotes get better by trading their best player who is the mentor to the slew of very good young talent that they already have (Boedker, Tikhonov, Mueller, Turris, Hanzal)

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07-31-2009, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
They have a truckload of young offensive talent. The team is growing together. That deal is not even close. Doan is their Captain, the face of their franchise, and among the best power forwards in the league. And you are offering a bunch of secondary players and/or mid range prospects.

They will get more goal scoring from the development of their young players. But beyond that, how they heck does subtracting their 30 goal scoring Captain help improve their overall team goalscoring ??????
Ask youself how the Coyotes get better by trading their best player who is the mentor to the slew of very good young talent that they already have (Boedker, Tikhonov, Mueller, Turris, Hanzal)
You act like Phoenix is close to the playoffs or something. Doan has three years left on his deal. I can almost guarantee Phoenix won't make the playoffs during his time there. They are having all types of other problems financially and Doan deserves better than this organization. You act like Phoenix hasn't traded some top talent recently. Doan is at his highest value right now, Phoenix would be smart to trade him now and look to the future like many other teams do. They need to go to an all youth movement kinda like Colorado is doing. They wouldn't be better this year but 2 years from now they will be a hell of a lot better. Doan is on the down slide while Staff, Mac and Brennan are on the upside.

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07-31-2009, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BloFan4Life View Post
You act like Phoenix is close to the playoffs or something. Doan has three years left on his deal. I can almost guarantee Phoenix won't make the playoffs during his time there. They are having all types of other problems financially and Doan deserves better than this organization. You act like Phoenix hasn't traded some top talent recently. Doan is at his highest value right now, Phoenix would be smart to trade him now and look to the future like many other teams do. They need to go to an all youth movement kinda like Colorado is doing. They wouldn't be better this year but 2 years from now they will be a hell of a lot better. Doan is on the down slide while Staff, Mac and Brennan are on the upside.
1. I disagree with every single point you made.
2. Doan on the downside of his career? He just had the best two years of his career.

end of debate. You're EA Sports proposal is ridiculous, if you need more proof, just throw it up on the Trade Board and let it be judged.

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Old
07-31-2009, 03:51 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BloFan4Life View Post
You act like Phoenix is close to the playoffs or something. Doan has three years left on his deal. I can almost guarantee Phoenix won't make the playoffs during his time there. They are having all types of other problems financially and Doan deserves better than this organization. You act like Phoenix hasn't traded some top talent recently. Doan is at his highest value right now, Phoenix would be smart to trade him now and look to the future like many other teams do. They need to go to an all youth movement kinda like Colorado is doing. They wouldn't be better this year but 2 years from now they will be a hell of a lot better. Doan is on the down slide while Staff, Mac and Brennan are on the upside.
Doan is the heart and soul of the Coyotes. From all accounts he is a great leader and an excellent mentor. They are not sacrificing their future by keeping him, they are making it brighter by providing an excellent role model and mentor for the younger players to aid their development. Doan is pretty close to untouchable if you ask me.

I doubt Phoenix trades Doan even for Vanek.


Last edited by Fireguy: 07-31-2009 at 04:10 PM.
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Old
07-31-2009, 04:00 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BloFan4Life View Post
You act like Phoenix is close to the playoffs or something. Doan has three years left on his deal. I can almost guarantee Phoenix won't make the playoffs during his time there. They are having all types of other problems financially and Doan deserves better than this organization. You act like Phoenix hasn't traded some top talent recently. Doan is at his highest value right now, Phoenix would be smart to trade him now and look to the future like many other teams do. They need to go to an all youth movement kinda like Colorado is doing. They wouldn't be better this year but 2 years from now they will be a hell of a lot better. Doan is on the down slide while Staff, Mac and Brennan are on the upside.

The trade makes no sense at all for the Yotes for a variety of reasons.


-No team in their right mind trades one of the best power forwards in the game in his prime for two borderline top 6 forwards and a dman that hasn't played a minute in the AHL let alone the NHL.

-Doan also makes realtive peanuts for what he brings to the table. 4.5mil is his salary and cap hit for the next 3 yrs. That is a bargain. For a better frame of referecne that is Connolly money the next two years.

-Doan is not only their captain , he is also their most marketable player. Why would they trade one of the few players they can use to try and build a fan base?


-The idea that trading away older players for young equals success is a flawed one. There are no gurantees something like that works out. In this case with the players involved I would say there is little chance it would work in the Yotes favor.

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Old
07-31-2009, 06:15 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Paille would have no value to Phoenix. They have a ton of forwards. Weber is a nice piece, but he's certainly not the difference between Stafford and Doan.

Doan is there captain. He's a proven 30 goal scorer. He is among the best power forwards in the entire league. He is signed to a very good deal that is below market value.

I think it would take Myers and Enroth to get Doan.
That's why I said Paille would have to be replaced with pick(s) and/or prospect(s). They have a glut of forwards due to the trades they made last year and all their young guys coming up.

Also, I said that IF Phoenix was looking to move Doan, we could put together a good package based around Stafford for him.

Myers and Enroth would be ridiculous overpayment for a franchise like ours that needs that influx of youth to continue to be financially viable. Stafford along with some pieces of good value has the potential to be a very good deal for both sides. I don't think Doan will be on the move this year, but they could consider moving him at the trade deadline this year or next offseason if the team doesn't show that it can be a playoff contender.

Like you said, the reasons why we really want Doan are the same reasons that he is a great fit in Phoenix, but he could be available sooner than we think. They have to see if their group of young guys can come together this year; Doan could be dealt if the team cannot improve.

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07-31-2009, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaleta36 View Post
That's why I said Paille would have to be replaced with pick(s) and/or prospect(s). They have a glut of forwards due to the trades they made last year and all their young guys coming up.

Also, I said that IF Phoenix was looking to move Doan, we could put together a good package based around Stafford for him.

Myers and Enroth would be ridiculous overpayment for a franchise like ours that needs that influx of youth to continue to be financially viable. Stafford along with some pieces of good value has the potential to be a very good deal for both sides. I don't think Doan will be on the move this year, but they could consider moving him at the trade deadline this year or next offseason if the team doesn't show that it can be a playoff contender.

Like you said, the reasons why we really want Doan are the same reasons that he is a great fit in Phoenix, but he could be available sooner than we think. They have to see if their group of young guys can come together this year; Doan could be dealt if the team cannot improve.
the point is, Doan isn't available. Not remotely. and if inquired for, that is probably what Phoenix would want. We can't make a good package around Stafford. Because Doan isn't available for a downgrade RWer and middle tier prospects and picks. He'd only be available for a "blow me out of the water" type of offer. Phoenix has plenty of young forwards who will potentially be better than Stafford anyways.

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07-31-2009, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
the point is, Doan isn't available. Not remotely. and if inquired for, that is probably what Phoenix would want. We can't make a good package around Stafford. Because Doan isn't available for a downgrade RWer and middle tier prospects and picks. He'd only be available for a "blow me out of the water" type of offer. Phoenix has plenty of young forwards who will potentially be better than Stafford anyways.
Yep I definitely agree with you there. I was talking hypothetically, if Phoenix fails to improve at all and Doan is put on the trade market to try to get some value. You are right; Doan is not being traded right now and Phoenix would need to be blown out of the water by a deal to accept. It could be a possibility down the road, but we shouldn't even be really talking about it right now.

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07-31-2009, 11:50 PM
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Myers is untouchable

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Old
08-03-2009, 11:45 PM
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*************, of whom I know nothing regarding credibility, has this to say on the Bertuzzi front:

via twitter -

Quote:
*************Bertuzzi down to Flyers, Islanders, Sabres, Hurricanes, told decesion may be soon.
Notice A) misspelling of decision

B) four Eastern Conference teams south of the border...

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08-03-2009, 11:52 PM
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He said he was done in Canada.

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08-03-2009, 11:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
*************, of whom I know nothing regarding credibility, has this to say on the Bertuzzi front:

via twitter -



Notice A) misspelling of decision

B) four Eastern Conference teams south of the border...
I would be shocked if we got Bertuzzi, but it is puzzling that Stafford has gone unsigned this long. It would be pretty big news if this happened, though I don't put any credibility into this Twitter.

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08-04-2009, 01:00 AM
  #19
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Yeah, i bet you this web site is just speculating on his quotes from the Calgary Herald. Doing the math and what he said, Buffalo makes perfect sense.... 1. close to his home town and 2. least traveled club in the league.

He said he wants to play near his home town and for a team that doesn't travel very far.

However, i don't put much into this site. Same site is saying their sources tell them Dominic Moore will more then likely stay with Buffalo.

If both were true, that means Sabres had talks with both parties, and i doubt Sabres would try to bring in Bertuzzi and then have Dominic re-sign.... i doubt Dominic wants to be in the same locker room with Bertuzzi after what he did to brother Steve.

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Old
08-04-2009, 08:21 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
*************, of whom I know nothing regarding credibility, has this to say on the Bertuzzi front:

via twitter -



Notice A) misspelling of decision

B) four Eastern Conference teams south of the border...
It's a decent source. It's had a few signings before I saw it elsewhere (Wellwood). The guy is constantly talking to player agents via twitter (and possibly elsewhere), so most of his stuff is realistic. And he tends to make it clear what's a rumor and what's real.

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Old
08-04-2009, 09:47 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaleta36 View Post
I would be shocked if we got Bertuzzi, but it is puzzling that Stafford has gone unsigned this long. It would be pretty big news if this happened, though I don't put any credibility into this Twitter.
Would anybody NOT like it if we signed Bert on the cheap and then moved Stafford for another piece? I think I like it.

What could Bertuzzi be had for? I have no idea what his last contract was or anything... Could we grab him for like 2 years, 2 mil per? Is that over payment?

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08-04-2009, 09:56 AM
  #22
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Originally Posted by Selanne00008 View Post
Would anybody NOT like it if we signed Bert on the cheap and then moved Stafford for another piece? I think I like it.

What could Bertuzzi be had for? I have no idea what his last contract was or anything... Could we grab him for like 2 years, 2 mil per? Is that over payment?
I wouldn't go a penny over 1.5 per year.

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08-04-2009, 12:12 PM
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Rangers walk away from Zherdev.

I don't like the guy, but he's Afinogenov who can finish.

Vanek-Roy-Zherdev plz

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08-04-2009, 12:20 PM
  #24
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Does Zherdev's arbitration # stick with him? Or does he become UFA?

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Old
08-04-2009, 12:22 PM
  #25
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Does Zherdev's arbitration # stick with him? Or does he become UFA?
He becomes a UFA

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