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1976 Canada Cup-Team Canada Roster

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Old
09-04-2013, 10:40 AM
  #26
Mr Kanadensisk
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Originally Posted by VMBM View Post
Maybe it needs to be reminded that they avenged that loss; remember the 6-0 game, for instance?

Sweden '06? The team that got blasted by the poorly-coached Russia? Czech '98? The team that wouldn't have won anything without Hasek?

Your comment about 'the best team on paper' and 'best performing team' is really weird, since if anything, the 1979 Soviets proved that they were a great performing team.

Canada in 2004? Oh yeah, they won some tournament that nobody remembers...
The Soviets had great performing teams primarily because they played and practiced together so often, and they certainly were great teams, certainly some of the best performing teams ever. Personally I'm more impressed with Sweden 06 and Czech 98 because they won without the advantage of extra preparation time. I should mention that hands down the best non-Canadian international team was the 96 USA team, who were great not only on paper in terms of individual talent but also in terms of team performance.


Last edited by Chalupa Batman: 09-04-2013 at 10:55 AM. Reason: Not needed
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09-04-2013, 10:56 AM
  #27
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Remember that we're colleagues here - please stop taking it too far.

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09-04-2013, 11:30 AM
  #28
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Had Krutov lifted that puck, I would label that team the GOAT. At this point I'll go with USSR 81. But Canada 76, USSR 79, Canada 87, USA 96, Czechia 98, and Canada 10 were all awesome.

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09-04-2013, 11:49 PM
  #29
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It's a shame that the Russians didn't ice their best in '76 due to, at least according to Tretiak, a power struggle between coaches Boris Kulagin and Victor Tikhonov. So no Kharlamov, Petrov, Mikhailov, Yakushev, Shadrin, Lyapkin, Tsygankov. All those players were on the '72 Summit Team and the Gold Medal winning team at the Olympics in Innsbruck earlier in the year, but were left off the Canada Cup roster. Of course we know who won that coaching power struggle, as Kulagin was shown the door after the USSR's 3rd place finish at the World Championships later that season. It's possible the Russians, even with those players, may have disappointed at the Canada Cup, as they did at the WC, but it's a too bad that arguably Canada's best roster (at least on paper) didn't face their equals from the USSR.

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09-05-2013, 12:01 AM
  #30
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1976 is a curious time to evaluate Canadian talent. Because of the Summit Series, North American eyes had been opened up to how good players from Europe were. But very few of those players were playing in North America at the time, unlike now, so the competition didn't drag down North Americans at the NHL level. If the 75-76 NHL was an 18 team league with the best from Sweden/USSR/Czech/Finland then some guys who are remembered as solid players would have been fringe players, having been pushed down the depth chart. Between the NHL & WHA, there was something like 25 big level teams in North America- with very few Europeans and USA hockey not being near what it is now... in other words, a product FAR more diluted than the 30 team NHL today that everyone wines about. So if you're gauging the star power of that Team Canada based on what they did in league play, it's a bit misleading.

Also, another thing that tends to happen when you look at great international teams in retrospect is that you see every player as being in their prime. To use an example, If Finland were to win gold this coming Olympics, it's probably unlikely that Teemu Selanne would be a sensational performer because while still good, he's over 40 years old and not in his prime. But yet in 2034 when people were talking about Finland's 2014 gold medal team, they'd list all the star power including Selanne and remember his glory days when evaluating the roster.

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09-05-2013, 02:41 AM
  #31
VMBM
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Originally Posted by double5son10 View Post
It's a shame that the Russians didn't ice their best in '76 due to, at least according to Tretiak, a power struggle between coaches Boris Kulagin and Victor Tikhonov. So no Kharlamov, Petrov, Mikhailov, Yakushev, Shadrin, Lyapkin, Tsygankov. All those players were on the '72 Summit Team and the Gold Medal winning team at the Olympics in Innsbruck earlier in the year, but were left off the Canada Cup roster. Of course we know who won that coaching power struggle, as Kulagin was shown the door after the USSR's 3rd place finish at the World Championships later that season. It's possible the Russians, even with those players, may have disappointed at the Canada Cup, as they did at the WC, but it's a too bad that arguably Canada's best roster (at least on paper) didn't face their equals from the USSR.
I'd just point out that Kharlamov couldn't have made the team anyway, since in the summer of '76, he had had a career-threatening car accident and was in hospital, when the Canada Cup was being played.

Anyway, it's indeed a shame that all the best available Soviet players did not play; could've been a USSR vs. Czechoslovakia final in that case
It's true, though, that in 1976-77, the Soviet national team was a mess; you just never knew which team would show up.

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09-05-2013, 03:16 AM
  #32
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Rogie Vachon. Would have great short runs but was not durable or reliable long term - evidenced by his inability to take the number one job with the Canadiens post 1967 despite ample opportunities to do so.
Vachon was both consistent and durable for LA from 1972-78, when he was an absolutely elite goalie carrying a thoroughly mediocre team to respectable finishes. He was not even remotely the same goalie in 1976 that he was as a young kid in 1970.

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09-05-2013, 01:33 PM
  #33
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Such a talented team. As to Rogie Vachon I agree the guy was a great goalie, shame he's not in the Hall of Fame.

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09-05-2013, 08:20 PM
  #34
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On paper you pretty much have to go with Canada 1976 - how many non-Hall of Famers did they have?

If you're going for actual performance on the ice, USSR 1981 beats all. They already won the WC going away (including a 13-1 drubbing of hosts Sweden). Then they only lost one game to Canada in the Canada Cup (and that one game was a meaningless round-robin game with the USSR already qualified), and got them back in the final 8-1, making the likes of Robinson and Bourque look bad.

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09-07-2013, 06:38 PM
  #35
Ed Wood
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I agree with Hammer Time. The '76 team is the most impressive on paper but they didn't dominate on the ice like the '81 Soviets or the '84 Canadians.

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09-07-2013, 06:59 PM
  #36
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In reality I don't see any team in history beating the 87 Canada team in a 7 game series. The training 11 months a year as a team from the USSR did well against them but considering they were a team 11 months of the year who still couldn't beat a team slapped together for a couple weeks proves they weren't as good.

Matter of fact all those USSR teams from that era who were really professionals who played together for 11 months of the year still lost more often then they won against slapped together teams from Canada. Of course revisionist historians neglect to remember that little fact.

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09-09-2013, 01:49 AM
  #37
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Such a talented team. As to Rogie Vachon I agree the guy was a great goalie, shame he's not in the Hall of Fame.
I agree. It is almost as if you'd like to hear a legitimate explanation by the HHOF as to how Vachon isn't in there. Something like that deserves an explanation rather than just being swept under the rug and decided by 18 people who have, in the past, exercised poor judgement.

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Originally Posted by Hammer Time View Post
On paper you pretty much have to go with Canada 1976 - how many non-Hall of Famers did they have?

If you're going for actual performance on the ice, USSR 1981 beats all. They already won the WC going away (including a 13-1 drubbing of hosts Sweden). Then they only lost one game to Canada in the Canada Cup (and that one game was a meaningless round-robin game with the USSR already qualified), and got them back in the final 8-1, making the likes of Robinson and Bourque look bad.
Canada 1976 had these non-HHOFers: Vachon (incredible he isn't in), Gare, Martin, P. Mahovlich and Jimmy Watson. That's it. Any other player with any ice time is now in the HHOF, including Cheevers who didn't play a minute of hockey.

I think it is important to note that this team wasn't together 12 months of the year. They were together for 3-4 weeks. They had some shellacking performances too (against Finland 11-2 and Czechs 6-0) and while they could have performed even better on the ice I think this team was really just warming up by the time they played the Czechs in the final. If they played together for an entire season, no team that was ever assembled internationally would have beaten them.

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Originally Posted by Ed Wood View Post
I agree with Hammer Time. The '76 team is the most impressive on paper but they didn't dominate on the ice like the '81 Soviets or the '84 Canadians.
1981 Soviets to compare them to fine, although they got shellacked 7-3 in the round robin by Canada despite the idea that they were playing the role of "patsy" at that time. But the 1984 Canadians in the 1984 Canada Cup I wouldn't put that high.

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09-09-2013, 12:05 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Preisst View Post
In reality I don't see any team in history beating the 87 Canada team in a 7 game series. The training 11 months a year as a team from the USSR did well against them but considering they were a team 11 months of the year who still couldn't beat a team slapped together for a couple weeks proves they weren't as good.

Matter of fact all those USSR teams from that era who were really professionals who played together for 11 months of the year still lost more often then they won against slapped together teams from Canada. Of course revisionist historians neglect to remember that little fact.
Actually it's mentioned quite frequently. What's not mentioned frequently is that, with a better goalie, that team could have taken 87 Canada out even in a seven game series. Tretiak, Irbe, or Khabibulin simply would not have let in six goals in a game.

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09-09-2013, 12:21 PM
  #39
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I agree with Hammer Time. The '76 team is the most impressive on paper but they didn't dominate on the ice like the '81 Soviets or the '84 Canadians.
But how would you know? The sample size is so tiny compared to the 81 Soviets.

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09-09-2013, 01:29 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Sentinel View Post
Actually it's mentioned quite frequently. What's not mentioned frequently is that, with a better goalie, that team could have taken 87 Canada out even in a seven game series. Tretiak, Irbe, or Khabibulin simply would not have let in six goals in a game.
6-5 (or 5-6) in 72 and all 3 games in 87 (5-6, 6-5; 6-5). 6-0 over Czechs in 76 clincher and 6-5 over Swedes in 84 clincher.

Clearly, someone is allowing 6 goals . . . a lot.

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09-09-2013, 01:38 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Hammer Time View Post
On paper you pretty much have to go with Canada 1976 - how many non-Hall of Famers did they have?

If you're going for actual performance on the ice, USSR 1981 beats all. They already won the WC going away (including a 13-1 drubbing of hosts Sweden). Then they only lost one game to Canada in the Canada Cup (and that one game was a meaningless round-robin game with the USSR already qualified), and got them back in the final 8-1, making the likes of Robinson and Bourque look bad.
I agree. The 81' Soviet team is something else.

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09-09-2013, 01:40 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Mr Kanadensisk View Post
The Soviets had great performing teams primarily because they played and practiced together so often, and they certainly were great teams, certainly some of the best performing teams ever. Personally I'm more impressed with Sweden 06 and Czech 98 because they won without the advantage of extra preparation time. I should mention that hands down the best non-Canadian international team was the 96 USA team, who were great not only on paper in terms of individual talent but also in terms of team performance.
Canada had home ice advantage in most best on best tournaments and Canadians reffec most of the games.

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09-09-2013, 02:17 PM
  #43
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While I think that the 1972 win for Canada was more impressive, and you have to give props to Gretzky, Lemieux and company in 1987, that 1976 Team Canada is the best of all time.
Any team with a FOURTH line of Darryl Sittler, Marcel Dionne and Lanny McDonald had to be pretty amazing...and they were.
I also think Rogie Vachon is being underrated here. He was a brilliant goalie, playing for a weak team on the west coast. Bowman and company deemed him the best Canadian goalie. And he was named the tournament's all-star goalie, and team MVP (though Orr won tourny MVP).
I saw Rogie play quite a bit and he was one of the best goalies I ever saw.

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09-09-2013, 02:49 PM
  #44
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Actually it's mentioned quite frequently. What's not mentioned frequently is that, with a better goalie, that team could have taken 87 Canada out even in a seven game series. Tretiak, Irbe, or Khabibulin simply would not have let in six goals in a game.


That's a joke right? Has to be a joke.

Anyways, you can't put aside the goalie like he was an external factor to the on-ice game. The goalie is part of the team, just as much as the 1st line centre or top defenseman. So telling us that USSR would have won with Tretiak/Khabibulin is no different than me saying that Canada would have won in 1998 with a prime Bobby Orr. Both are idiotic and meaningless statements!

Incidentally, Belosheikin (sp?) played quite well in game 2. He deserved to play the final game. Not that I'm complaining .


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09-09-2013, 04:55 PM
  #45
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While I think that the 1972 win for Canada was more impressive, and you have to give props to Gretzky, Lemieux and company in 1987, that 1976 Team Canada is the best of all time.
Any team with a FOURTH line of Darryl Sittler, Marcel Dionne and Lanny McDonald had to be pretty amazing...and they were.
I also think Rogie Vachon is being underrated here. He was a brilliant goalie, playing for a weak team on the west coast. Bowman and company deemed him the best Canadian goalie. And he was named the tournament's all-star goalie, and team MVP (though Orr won tourny MVP).
I saw Rogie play quite a bit and he was one of the best goalies I ever saw.
Bowman did play with the lines quite a bit, but by the end of the tournament they looked like this:

Hull Perreault Dionne
Shutt Mahovlich Lafleur
Barber Clarke Leach
Gainey Sittler Mcdonald

Note that by the end of the tournament Esposito rotated into the 4th line. When he did the line was:
Sittler Esposito Mcdonald

Essentially, he saw power-play time and a regular shift every 8th change. Big come down after Bowman took him off the Hull/Dionne line and went exclusively with Perreault.

On a different note, what always struck me was the lack of depth from which to draw on the blueline. After the big 5, who all shot left, next in line was Jimmy Watson. Big drop off.

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09-09-2013, 05:02 PM
  #46
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Its Funny how Bowman got rid of Peter Maholovich the same season.He was 6ft 5 giant who was repaced by a better defencive player in Lemaire.Now Montreal Canadiens won but he and Lafleur might have gotten more pts together

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09-09-2013, 05:43 PM
  #47
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Its Funny how Bowman got rid of Peter Maholovich the same season.He was 6ft 5 giant who was repaced by a better defencive player in Lemaire.Now Montreal Canadiens won but he and Lafleur might have gotten more pts together
Possibly, but big Pete came to the 76 CC team after 2 consecutive 100 pt seasons and then absolutely crashed. I'm not sure if Pollock was still in charge or if Grundman had taken over at the point Pete was moved to Pittsburgh in 77, but the deal was classic Habs: deal an ageing star (Pete) for a young talent (Pierre Larouche).

Regardless, Pete Mahovlich aged really quickly after that 76 tournament and was completely out of the league by the fall of 1980.

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09-09-2013, 06:44 PM
  #48
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That's a joke right? Has to be a joke.

Anyways, you can't put aside the goalie like he was an external factor to the on-ice game. The goalie is part of the team, just as much as the 1st line centre or top defenseman. So telling us that USSR would have won with Tretiak/Khabibulin is no different than me saying that Canada would have won in 1998 with a prime Bobby Orr. Both are idiotic and meaningless statements!

Incidentally, Belosheikin (sp?) played quite well in game 2. He deserved to play the final game. Not that I'm complaining .

I'm not sure.

Apart from pitchers in baseball, I don't think any position can have as much of an impact as a goalie can. For as good as Orr was, he could never impact the outcome of a game as much as a goalie could.

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09-09-2013, 09:06 PM
  #49
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On a different note, what always struck me was the lack of depth from which to draw on the blueline. After the big 5, who all shot left, next in line was Jimmy Watson. Big drop off.
And Watson didn't play after he blocked a shot with his face versus the US.

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09-10-2013, 02:27 AM
  #50
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Tretiak, Irbe, or Khabibulin simply would not have let in six goals in a game.
Errrrr, I haven't studied Irbe or Khabibulin that much, but Tretiak??? He let in six goals (and sometimes more) in a game quite a few times - against Czechoslovakia/Canada/NHL team, you name it. It's certainly not inconceivable that he would've done it also in 1987.

And as it was said in a previous post, I think Belosheikin played well in game 2.

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