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Heatley to Wild?

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Old
08-14-2009, 01:29 PM
  #101
Beukeboom Fan
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Originally Posted by skid17 View Post
the guy had 67pts in a full season and 1st unit PP. he is good but he can be replaced
Look at the "talent" he was on the ice with, and look at the team system he played in before just trotting out 67 points as the end-all/be-all stat for his value.

I'm not a Wild fan, but in the games I saw of him last year, I was REALLY impressed. Impressed enough IMO that if you consider their contracts, overall play, and team depth I'd bet the Wild would MUCH rather have Koivu than Heatley.

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Old
08-14-2009, 01:36 PM
  #102
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If the Wild traded Koivu in a package for Heatley, they'd be desperately looking for a #1 centerman for Heatley/Havlat. Its a pointless trade for Minny. It just creates more problems in terms of team needs.

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Old
08-14-2009, 01:51 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
Look at the "talent" he was on the ice with, and look at the team system he played in before just trotting out 67 points as the end-all/be-all stat for his value.

I'm not a Wild fan, but in the games I saw of him last year, I was REALLY impressed. Impressed enough IMO that if you consider their contracts, overall play, and team depth I'd bet the Wild would MUCH rather have Koivu than Heatley.
dont get me wrong...he is really good and i would love him in ottawa but I literally laughed when i saw someone say he is untouchable

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Old
08-14-2009, 01:53 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by skid17 View Post
dont get me wrong...he is really good and i would love him in ottawa but I literally laughed when i saw someone say he is untouchable
He's not untouchable. Obviously if a centerman with top-line potential comes in return he could be trade bait. But trading for Heatley and losing Koivu creates a big hole in the lineup. A hole that they never had to start off with. lol

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Old
08-14-2009, 01:55 PM
  #105
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how the hell is Koivu a PROVEN 1st line center?


more like a "Decent" 1st line center, and not proven at all

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Old
08-14-2009, 01:55 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by FanHabtic View Post
If the Wild traded Koivu in a package for Heatley, they'd be desperately looking for a #1 centerman for Heatley/Havlat. Its a pointless trade for Minny. It just creates more problems in terms of team needs.
Heatley doesnt need a first line center to produce

Bouchard is fine

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Old
08-14-2009, 01:59 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by HSF View Post
Heatley doesnt need a first line center to produce

Bouchard is fine
LOL! That's a convenient statement to try to convince Minny to include Koivu in a deal. Its just not true. Bouchard is not fine. lol

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Old
08-14-2009, 02:25 PM
  #108
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Heatley + Lee for Bouchard + Clutterbuck + Cuma?

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Old
08-14-2009, 02:27 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Sensational Spezza View Post
Heatley + Lee for Bouchard + Clutterbuck + Cuma?
Not even close. wow.

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Old
08-14-2009, 02:32 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Juice View Post
Not even close. wow.
??

Clutterbuck > Lee (has the record for most hits in a single season, could hit 20 goals next season)
Bouchard + Cuma = Heatley (Bouchard hits 60 points, Cuma is a future top pairing guy)

Explain to me why that isn't fair, we get two top 6 forwards and a top defensive prospect

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Old
08-14-2009, 02:38 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensational Spezza View Post
??

Clutterbuck > Lee (has the record for most hits in a single season, could hit 20 goals next season)
Bouchard + Cuma = Heatley (Bouchard hits 60 points, Cuma is a future top pairing guy)

Explain to me why that isn't fair, we get two top 6 forwards and a top defensive prospect
Cuma is not a future top pairing guy. He is a prospect who could, maybe one day but not likely.

Clutterbuck is more valuable as a funny name. He throws hits a lot, it's awesome but you would be insane to say he's better than Lee.

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Old
08-14-2009, 02:38 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensational Spezza View Post
??

Clutterbuck > Lee (has the record for most hits in a single season, could hit 20 goals next season)
Bouchard + Cuma = Heatley (Bouchard hits 60 points, Cuma is a future top pairing guy)

Explain to me why that isn't fair, we get two top 6 forwards and a top defensive prospect
Terrible deal.

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Old
08-14-2009, 02:39 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensational Spezza View Post
??

Clutterbuck > Lee (has the record for most hits in a single season, could hit 20 goals next season)
Bouchard + Cuma = Heatley (Bouchard hits 60 points, Cuma is a future top pairing guy)

Explain to me why that isn't fair, we get two top 6 forwards and a top defensive prospect
A few things, in what world is Clutterbuck a top 6 forward? He had 18 frigging points last year, and the year before he only had 24 points in the AHL, he's shown very little offensive upside since junior. And Cuma is not a future top pairing guy nor a top defensive prospect, he's a good defensive prospect with top 4 upside. Not to mention that Lee is worth more than Clutterbuck in my opinion, he's already a better player than he is, and he has far more upside. That deal is not fair at all.

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Old
08-14-2009, 02:42 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Bass Lee View Post
Terrible deal.
bouchard + cuma = heatley? can you even say that out loud without laughing

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Old
08-14-2009, 02:42 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Wondercarrot View Post
and as someone invariably tells you after you post that, that was before the $4million had been paid on his salary for this year and they wanted to get it done immediately. mUrray himself has said the price changed after that all went down.
No to mention Murray was responsible for draftng Smid, signing Penner in Anaheim and Cogliano is a good young player. He knows those guys (likely better than you do.)

If you dont have cap problems then you are out of your mind if you dont make this deal. You think the fans will remember Koivu's name after Heatley puts up 50 goals or100pts next year?
While this is a valid argument, doesn't it also say something that when this first hit the fan the best offer to come out of it was Penner, Cogliano, and Smid? If teams weren't going to offer more then what's going to change their minds to give up significantly more now?

More importantly though, from Minnesota's perspective while technically Heatley could make them forget Koivu they don't do it because Koivu is one of their top 3 assets and they have other players they can trade. Edmonton completed the deal without including Gagner or Hemsky, but rather Cogliano and Penner. Philly traded for Pronger without losing Giroux or JVR, but rather traded Lupul and Sbisa. It would likely be the same thing with Minnesota if they were to trade for Heatley. While technically Koivu would be the top player Ottawa would want back, Minnesota could still create an equal package based around PM Bouchard instead, and keep their only good center.

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Old
08-14-2009, 02:44 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by RandV View Post
While this is a valid argument, doesn't it also say something that when this first hit the fan the best offer to come out of it was Penner, Cogliano, and Smid? If teams weren't going to offer more then what's going to change their minds to give up significantly more now?

More importantly though, from Minnesota's perspective while technically Heatley could make them forget Koivu they don't do it because Koivu is one of their top 3 assets and they have other players they can trade. Edmonton completed the deal without including Gagner or Hemsky, but rather Cogliano and Penner. Philly traded for Pronger without losing Giroux or JVR, but rather traded Lupul and Sbisa. It would likely be the same thing with Minnesota if they were to trade for Heatley. While technically Koivu would be the top player Ottawa would want back, Minnesota could still create an equal package based around PM Bouchard instead, and keep their only good center.
Well said! The Sens are in no position to dictate terms when it comes to Heatley.

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08-14-2009, 02:48 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by FanHabtic View Post
LOL! That's a convenient statement to try to convince Minny to include Koivu in a deal. Its just not true. Bouchard is not fine. lol
Umm no, Heatley in atl without a number 1 center (Savard wasnt at that time ) = still produced

Heatley + Fisher + winchester = 3 goals in one game

Heatley - Kelly - Alfie = a VERY good line for a month when Spezz was injured.... that was the turning point of the season


Heatley is an Elite player he adapts to his line mates which is a telling charaterisitic of a elite player

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Old
08-14-2009, 02:49 PM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensational Spezza View Post
??

Clutterbuck > Lee (has the record for most hits in a single season, could hit 20 goals next season)
Bouchard + Cuma = Heatley (Bouchard hits 60 points, Cuma is a future top pairing guy)

Explain to me why that isn't fair, we get two top 6 forwards and a top defensive prospect
CLutterbuck isnt a top 6 forward....

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Old
08-14-2009, 02:50 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by FanHabtic View Post
Well said! The Sens are in no position to dictate terms when it comes to Heatley.
Except that pesky contract he has with them...

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Old
08-14-2009, 02:50 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by HSF View Post
Umm no, Heatley in atl without a number 1 center (Savard wasnt at that time ) = still produced

Heatley + Fisher + winchester = 3 goals in one game

Heatley - Kelly - Alfie = a VERY good line for a month when Spezz was injured.... that was the turning point of the season


Heatley is an Elite player he adapts to his line mates which is a telling charaterisitic of a elite player
So your theory is any centerman + Heatley = instant production. In fact you don't even need a centerman when Heatley is playing. Just put three wingers on a line? Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

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Old
08-14-2009, 02:53 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by FanHabtic View Post
So your theory is any centerman + Heatley = instant production. In fact you don't even need a centerman when Heatley is playing. Just put three wingers on a line? Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
A lot of wingers don't need centermen. Heatley just happened to have been playing with a really good one recently. But even when he wasn't, he was still producing.

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Old
08-14-2009, 02:54 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by FanHabtic View Post
Well said! The Sens are in no position to dictate terms when it comes to Heatley.
Yes they are. They say, "No, we would rather keep the disgruntled winger whose problems can be worked out than trade him for your trash."

Holy ****, that's pretty simple.

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Old
08-14-2009, 02:54 PM
  #123
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A lot of wingers don't need centermen. Heatley just happened to have been playing with a really good one recently. But even when he wasn't, he was still producing.
Heatley was also playing with a guy named Kovalchuk in Atlanta. I think that had something to do with his production.... Maybe?

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Old
08-14-2009, 02:55 PM
  #124
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Yes they are. They say, "No, we would rather keep the disgruntled winger whose problems can be worked out than trade him for your trash."

Holy ****, that's pretty simple.

And poison the Sens dressing room Emery-style. Holy ****, that's pretty scary!

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Old
08-14-2009, 02:55 PM
  #125
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Minny fans will not give up Koivu for Heatley. They'll take it into definite consideration, but in the end, they'll pass...

Yes, Heatley will rack the points up, but in my mind its:

Koivu at 3.25mil (top two-way player in league, young, captain)
VS
Heatley at 7.50mil (sure-fire goal scorer, but current history has not been kind for his reputation)

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