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When will the CBJ make their next splash?

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Old
08-18-2009, 01:43 PM
  #76
CapnCornelius
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
Keep in mind this is the same person who thought Van should look at Brule as a replacement of Naslund and Comrie was the answer at center, so I wouldn't concern yourself with any player or coaching evaluations he brings to the table.
Nothing like taking things out of context, blahblah. Remind me, wasn't that Brule comment in the context of trading him before he became a bust on this team and had lower value? That's right, it was. It was in training camp of his last season with the team when all the Suzy Sunshine's thought we should keep Brule around because of his "upside" even though it was obviouis our coach had determined he was only going to use him in the bottom six. And I was crazy to think Vancouver would attempt to fill the void left by the departure of guys like Morrison and Naslund with younger players...even though that's exactly what they did with guys like Bernier and Wellwood.

And how silly of me to suggest that we add Mike Comrie...in 2007-08 when he put up 21 goals and 49 points. The same year our best center, Mike Peca, put up 8 goals and 34 points. For that matter, Comrie put up 27 points last year despite spending time out with injury. I'm sure he wouldn't have equalled Malhotra's 35 points on a line with Rick Nash.

But, hey, we'd love to hear a real critical analysis of this team from you. You know, something more than "whatever the coaches and management tell us is always right."

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08-18-2009, 01:54 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by danielfloyd View Post
I am not a pessimist about the current situation, but I do feel like something needs to be done before we embark with the current roster. I think we are set in goal with Mason (obviousy), Garon (a vast upgrade), and LaCosta in the minors ready for call-up, but we need something else on offense and defense. On offense, we lost Malhotra, Peca and Williams, and while I was not necessarily set on bringing any of them back, they did combine for 27-59-86 (+8) for us last year (not including what Williams had before he came to the CBJ), and it has only been replaced by Pahlsson 7-11-18 (-17). I understand Pahlsson was not brought in for offense, but at the same time, he has only been a plus rated player once in his career... Admittedy I never have followed Pahlsson closely, and I know that is not the only indicator to a defensive forward, but 7 of 8 years as a minus and a career -46 doesn't scream defensive powerhouse. Even if he is good on the PK, he is replacing two people we used often on the PK. I also realize Filatov will be taking over some of those minutes, but the difference is still 20-48-68, which is asking a lot from a rookie with only 8 games under his belt. I also do believe in the improvement of Voracek and Brassard, but I don't see the problem with bringing in some proven offense to bolster these players. On defense, our plan to "stand pat" is hopefully a bluff, and I do not hold too much hope that it will be solved by waiting for cap-strapped teams to get desperate. Even with 6 or 7 desperate teams, who is to say that they will try to deal with Columbus, like what we offer, offer what we need, or be reasonable. If nothing changes, I am not predicting any kind of "doomsday," but I do think we will be unlikely to better our first-round exit from last season.
This, and well said

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08-18-2009, 02:04 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
But, hey, we'd love to hear a real critical analysis of this team from you. You know, something more than "whatever the coaches and management tell us is always right."
So the question remains. What player is going to make this team a cup winner?

The answer is nobody. Plain and simple. I'm sorry if I'm bursting somebody's bubble with this statement but it's the hard facts. There is not one player that could be added right now that takes this team from the cusp of the playoffs to Stanley Cup Champion.

Throwing a bunch of cash at a player that is going to take us from 7th in the standings to 6th doesn't solve things and makes the situation worse.

When you're in a position like Boston, San Jose, Pittsburgh, and Detroit THEN you go out and get that final player to get over the hump and lift the cup.

Otherwise you end up like Atlanta and Nashville, Trading for a big star and "Hoping" that he helps you get past the first round. He doesn't, doesn't stay with your team, and you've mortgaged your future. Or you end up wasting nearly 18 million dollars on a player like Fedorov.

And before some joker posts "huh, huh, Ovechkin could make this team a cup champion" There wouldn't be much of a team left after everybody was traded to acquire him. If Ovechkin + the Washington Capitals can't win the cup, Ovechkin + the Syracuse Crunch certainly can't


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08-18-2009, 02:23 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Skraut View Post
So the question remains. What player is going to make this team a cup winner?
My response would be that if anyone thinks we will jump from a first round sweep in our first playoff run to cup champions in one year, then they must be crazy. Realism is the key, and all I am looking for as a fan is a series victory.

To attain this goal, I don't think it would require a single "star" player, rather I would like to see 2 or 3 new/better players brought in to take us this step farther. I do not have names off hand because these can come from anywhere really, and I do not think that it requires a mortgaging of the future.

If I had all the answers, I would go try to overthrow Howson today, but since I don't, I will have to hope that he does the right moves on his own.

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08-18-2009, 02:29 PM
  #80
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"Pretty well said". Pretty definitive. I call revisionist history on Richards. Regardless, both examples discounted "cash" as a reason.
Since you're hell bent on an argument...

You think we have the available cash now that we had a year ago when we made a bid for Redden? We don't. We'll never have that kind of free cash on hand that we had after Foote and Fedorov left the books.

You don't think prestige/status has anything to do with landing UFA's? It does. Prestige matters, and we don't have it. "We don't want to sign a long term contract and then be traded somewhere like say, Columbus, and be stuck there." You remember that quote from a big name UFA's agent?

Like I said before, "We really don't have the cash or the prestige to court the big name UFA's. " If we did we'd be getting excited about something a little more substantial than a 3rd line center. I'm happy building from within, I'm convinced this season we'll surpass what we accomplished last, in both regular season points and playoff performance, but we aren't going to get a boost from free agency. Pahlsson might be a modest upgrade for us, but the real growth on this team is going to be in the form of Brassard, Voracek, Russell, Filatov, Mason, Methot, etc. I'm not pessimistic, but I'm not blindly optimistic either. We'll get better as our young players mature. We have a good coach, good GM, and better ownership than alot of teams do.


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08-18-2009, 02:38 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by danielfloyd View Post
To attain this goal, I don't think it would require a single "star" player, rather I would like to see 2 or 3 new/better players brought in to take us this step farther. I do not have names off hand because these can come from anywhere really, and I do not think that it requires a mortgaging of the future.
I'll offer a few suggestions of some new/better players:

Nikita Filatov - Played pretty good in only 8 games with the Columbus Blue Jackets last season, should be interesting to see what he can do on our team with a full season.

Derrick Brassard - an early Calder Favorite playing for the Columbus Blue Jackets last season before getting injured. If we pair him with on a line with players we have like Rick Nash and Kristian Huselius it could be a powerful first line.

Raffi Torres - Showed some great flashes of skill in critical moments playing with the Columbus Blue Jackets last season once he got over those injuries. It'd be great to see what he could do with a full season.

Fredrik Modin - This old warrior has been hurt the past few years playing with the Columbus Blue Jackets, and is the kind of player a coach like Ken Hitchcock would like. If he gets it together healthwise he could be a dominant force either on the 2nd line with Umberger or with Pahlsson on the third.

Now we just need our GM to contact Scott Howson so we can make a "Big Splash" and acquire "2 or 3" of those players.

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08-18-2009, 02:50 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Nordique View Post
Since you're hell bent on an argument...

You think we have the available cash now that we had a year ago when we made a bid for Redden?
Hell bent on argument? It's called debate. If you don't want it, don't post.

Do you think "prestege" is as much of a factor as it was last year? Unless by "prestege" you mean living in NY. In which case, that's a small % of the player base that cares.

This offseason is gone (at least from high profile UFA's), so we're now talking about future UFA's. We don't know what the future will bring. I could even see us spending the cash on the right UFA as with crappy contracts coming off the books. It could very well be easier to move some of the newer contracts later. Howson could very well allow guys like Torres and Vermette to walk and use that freed up money next offseason for a high profile guy.

What I am saying is that Howson is willing to go after the man he wants, even on the elite side of the salary scale.

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08-18-2009, 02:51 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by danielfloyd View Post
My response would be that if anyone thinks we will jump from a first round sweep in our first playoff run to cup champions in one year, then they must be crazy. Realism is the key, and all I am looking for as a fan is a series victory.

To attain this goal, I don't think it would require a single "star" player, rather I would like to see 2 or 3 new/better players brought in to take us this step farther. I do not have names off hand because these can come from anywhere really, and I do not think that it requires a mortgaging of the future.

If I had all the answers, I would go try to overthrow Howson today, but since I don't, I will have to hope that he does the right moves on his own.
From what I saw - the big thing about play-off hockey isn't just players skill, it's about being able to turn it up a notch. Obviously, a young Jackets teams ran into the Redwing buzzsaw, who were absolutely dominant until injuries did them in IMO.

I think Jackets fans have to be pretty excited about:
1) Getting Brassard back for a full year.
2) Voracek hopefully developing into a legit scoring line player
3) Have Filatov hopefully be a contributing NHL'er
4) Full year of Vermette
5) Healthy Mason & a legit NHL back-up goalie

All of those probably won't come to fruition - but if they do you're looking at a team that has 2 legit scoring lines, great goaltending, and a solid team defensive system. It might not be enough to make the Jackets a Cup contender, but if they learned their lesson this year I'd give them a decent shot against just about anyone in the P/O's.

It's all about baby steps IMO. You go from just being happy to make the P/O's, to being scary enough to win a series or two if they get the breaks.

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08-18-2009, 02:58 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Skraut View Post
I'll offer a few suggestions of some new/better players:

Nikita Filatov - Played pretty good in only 8 games with the Columbus Blue Jackets last season, should be interesting to see what he can do on our team with a full season.

Derrick Brassard - an early Calder Favorite playing for the Columbus Blue Jackets last season before getting injured. If we pair him with on a line with players we have like Rick Nash and Kristian Huselius it could be a powerful first line.

Raffi Torres - Showed some great flashes of skill in critical moments playing with the Columbus Blue Jackets last season once he got over those injuries. It'd be great to see what he could do with a full season.

Fredrik Modin - This old warrior has been hurt the past few years playing with the Columbus Blue Jackets, and is the kind of player a coach like Ken Hitchcock would like. If he gets it together healthwise he could be a dominant force either on the 2nd line with Umberger or with Pahlsson on the third.

Now we just need our GM to contact Scott Howson so we can make a "Big Splash" and acquire "2 or 3" of those players.
And while I couldn't agree with you more wholeheartedly, you say nothing of a defenseman that the team could use, and you're relying on players we already have (which I promoted just about 8 or 9 posts ago--not my response to you, but my other post), who have either been injured a lot recently or are very young. Modin (I am a big Modin fan), but he hasn't played a season's worth of games over the last 2 years, he only has 37 points over that time, and he turns 35 at the beginning of the year (only to be more injury prone)--Torres is almost identical in having played a season of games the last 2 years with 31 points--Brassard has 48 career games under his belt, and he already has had a season-ending surgery--Filatov has 8 games of experience, and while he played well in those games, he only scored in 2 games, he had 0 shots in 3 games, and a lot can change over a full season. He may do great (I hope he does), but he could have also gotten his hat trick in an attempt to keep himself on the big club... Would you really have expected him to be a 41-goal scorer if he had played the whole year? (8gms/4goals=82gms/41goals). I want these guys to be there, but there is nothing wrong with bringing in a guy or two in case they don't fulfill these expectations.

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08-18-2009, 03:03 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Skraut View Post
So the question remains. What player is going to make this team a cup winner?

The answer is nobody. Plain and simple. I'm sorry if I'm bursting somebody's bubble with this statement but it's the hard facts. There is not one player that could be added right now that takes this team from the cusp of the playoffs to Stanley Cup Champion.

Throwing a bunch of cash at a player that is going to take us from 7th in the standings to 6th doesn't solve things and makes the situation worse.
The answer is a true #1 defenseman. And again, you're framing of the situation is bogus. No, I don't think one player is going to make this team a Cup contender by themselves overnight. But I do think the combination of imrpoved contributions from younger players and the addition of an honest-to-god #1 defenseman gets us much closer. Doesn't mean it all happens in one year, but over the course of 2 or 3 years it certainly does.

And, again, by standing pat, all we have done is delayed what needs to be done. Guys like Moore and Golobeuf are not going to be up to the task any time soon. Which means we're still going to have to ultimately spend the cash to fill this need or continue to toil in mediocrity.

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08-18-2009, 03:06 PM
  #86
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What I am saying is that Howson is willing to go after the man he wants, even on the elite side of the salary scale.
I agree he is willing, but its on that elite side of the scale that he's had no success, and I attribute that to our lack of cash and prestige.

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08-18-2009, 03:08 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
From what I saw - the big thing about play-off hockey isn't just players skill, it's about being able to turn it up a notch. Obviously, a young Jackets teams ran into the Redwing buzzsaw, who were absolutely dominant until injuries did them in IMO.

I think Jackets fans have to be pretty excited about:
1) Getting Brassard back for a full year.
2) Voracek hopefully developing into a legit scoring line player
3) Have Filatov hopefully be a contributing NHL'er
4) Full year of Vermette
5) Healthy Mason & a legit NHL back-up goalie

All of those probably won't come to fruition - but if they do you're looking at a team that has 2 legit scoring lines, great goaltending, and a solid team defensive system. It might not be enough to make the Jackets a Cup contender, but if they learned their lesson this year I'd give them a decent shot against just about anyone in the P/O's.

It's all about baby steps IMO. You go from just being happy to make the P/O's, to being scary enough to win a series or two if they get the breaks.
This post. Dead on. A second round playoff appearance would be awesome this year.

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08-18-2009, 03:17 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by KallioWeHardlyKnewYe View Post
I think the core issue is you think Filatov ........should be traded, which is fine. I think you're in a minority there, but to each their own.
I don't think he would normally say that but based on some comments from Hitchians and those "in the know" he came to that conclusion.

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Given the carping we are already hearing from the Hitch lovers about Filatov, I think we'd be best served to trade the kid now to a team that does want him instead of watching him sit on one of the bottom two lines. Use him as the bait to get a defenseman because he's got no place on this team as long as Ken Hitchcock is the coach. I think the kid has a lot of upside, but given what those who claim to be "in the know" about the coach's views on the kid have to say these days, I already have a sense of where this is headed.

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08-18-2009, 03:20 PM
  #89
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I want the CBJ to get better too...

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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
The answer is a true #1 defenseman. And again, you're framing of the situation is bogus. No, I don't think one player is going to make this team a Cup contender by themselves overnight. But I do think the combination of imrpoved contributions from younger players and the addition of an honest-to-god #1 defenseman gets us much closer. Doesn't mean it all happens in one year, but over the course of 2 or 3 years it certainly does.

And, again, by standing pat, all we have done is delayed what needs to be done. Guys like Moore and Golobeuf are not going to be up to the task any time soon. Which means we're still going to have to ultimately spend the cash to fill this need or continue to toil in mediocrity.
and in my eyes the Captn has hit on the key point... No I do not think we are just one player away from the SC, but I do think we need to add pieces to get there.

We desperately need a puck moving scoring threat that sucks up about 25 minutes and at times wins games based on his skill. That component makes the entire team better in every way. To get to the SC you need experience in the playoffs.. you need to win that first series, and a second and a third. Doing any of this provides more revenue which adds to the financial strength of the organ I zation.

To say that there is no more UFA's to sign is very short sighted. Howson is not going to make a move just to make it. He is the anti Doug.

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08-18-2009, 03:20 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
The answer is a true #1 defenseman. And again, you're framing of the situation is bogus. No, I don't think one player is going to make this team a Cup contender by themselves overnight. But I do think the combination of imrpoved contributions from younger players and the addition of an honest-to-god #1 defenseman gets us much closer. Doesn't mean it all happens in one year, but over the course of 2 or 3 years it certainly does.

And, again, by standing pat, all we have done is delayed what needs to be done. Guys like Moore and Golobeuf are not going to be up to the task any time soon. Which means we're still going to have to ultimately spend the cash to fill this need or continue to toil in mediocrity.
I think you're muddling your own arguments. You acknowledge that building a Cup contender is a process and yet you still seem to want something done RIGHT NOW.

The reason it takes several years to build/mold a Cup contender is because not everything that needs to be done can be done immediately.

Also, you want improved contributions from the young guys but you also want a proven #1 dman. Well, where is that player coming from and how are we going to get him? The Ducks landed Pronger, but had to give up guys like Smid and Lupul to do so. I don't think we have the depth to do that.

At this point in time, despite our need, I don't think the player we need is out there and if he is, we can't afford him.

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08-18-2009, 03:20 PM
  #91
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I got to go with Skraut's take on this.

Certainly we do need a puck moving defenseman, but at this time in Jackets history it is prudent to allow the young players to develop into the studs we all know that they will be, and then make the big splash to put the proverbial icing on the cake.

How long that development takes is anyone's guess, but my money is on sooner rather than later.

Howson is building this team the right way. Through it's own system, then through free agency as needed, and trades that make sense and don't gut the team.

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08-18-2009, 03:21 PM
  #92
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I agree he is willing, but its on that elite side of the scale that he's had no success, and I attribute that to our lack of cash and prestige.
And your evidence is one failed attempt for Redden and what I consider revisionist history on Richards?

So he's 0-1 on "elite" UFA's. Not exactly a lot of history to go off of. In a literal sense, you are correct. But I think that's way too simplistic and misleading summarization of the situation.

I'll say this, I think Howson would work in almost the exact same way, even if he could spend to the cap, in the high end UFA market. We'd probably be sitting at around the same cap hit on contracts longer then a year. He'd probably have went after the same players and we'd probably be looking at a very similiar team.

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08-18-2009, 03:29 PM
  #93
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and in my eyes the Captn has hit on the key point... No I do not think we are just one player away from the SC, but I do think we need to add pieces to get there.

We desperately need a puck moving scoring threat that sucks up about 25 minutes and at times wins games based on his skill.
All that was said is the exact same thing that everyone has been saying for the last 3 years. It wasn't new. He would like you to think it was new and exciting or insightful. It was a hole defined by the community when Howson came on board. Howson has discussed it. I debated with Wolfie when he said Howson was happy with what he had and wasn't going to do anything this offseason. Anyone that payed any attention to the team knew it was an issue last year going into this offseason.

If it was that easy to get one, we'd already have one.

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08-18-2009, 03:29 PM
  #94
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And your evidence is one failed attempt for Redden and what I consider revisionist history on Richards?

So he's 0-1 on "elite" UFA's. Not exactly a lot of history to go off of. In a literal sense, you are correct. But I think that's way too simplistic and misleading summarization of the situation.

I'll say this, I think Howson would work in almost the exact same way, even if he could spend to the cap, in the high end UFA market. We'd probably be sitting at around the same cap hit on contracts longer then a year. He'd probably have went after the same players and we'd probably be looking at a very similiar team.
Wasn't Redden also long-time buddies with one of the Rangers coaches? Not saying that was THE factor, but I remember hearing it was A factor. After all, Columbus did offer him more money.

As for prestige? There is a certain type of person that will always find NYC, for example, more alluring. Can't really be helped for Columbus. But I also see this as a minor, minor thing.

If there is one thing I've learned about sports, it's if you offer an athlete what they want, you're probably going to get them. Most will gladly talk themselves into anything if there are enough zeros on the check (who wouldn't?).
So, if CBJ can compete on price when they need to, I think they'll be fine over time.

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08-18-2009, 03:31 PM
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And your evidence is one failed attempt for Redden and what I consider revisionist history on Richards?
Not even. Tampa wanted Mason in the Richards deal which made it a deal breaker. Richards had the jackets on his list of teams to play for, he would have come for sure.

Quote:
I'll say this, I think Howson would work in almost the exact same way, even if he could spend to the cap, in the high end UFA market. We'd probably be sitting at around the same cap hit on contracts longer then a year. He'd probably have went after the same players and we'd probably be looking at a very similiar team.
There is just no way around the fact that the last idiot who was in charge left the cupboards pretty bare. The few assets he did manage to come up with are only just entering the league and those are the guys we are going to build around. Perhaps if he didn't waste three top 10 picks on Brule, Picard, and Zherdev, we would have some bargaining chips, but we are at where we are at largely because of where that dimwit left us.

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08-18-2009, 03:34 PM
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Wasn't Redden also long-time buddies with one of the Rangers coaches?
Yes, he and Perry Pern were very close and it was a big factor in why he signed there over us (according to him--whether this is just his PC explaination or not I am not sure). Ironically Pern was fired along with Renney and Redden remains.

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08-18-2009, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
And your evidence is one failed attempt for Redden and what I consider revisionist history on Richards?

So he's 0-1 on "elite" UFA's. Not exactly a lot of history to go off of. In a literal sense, you are correct. But I think that's way too simplistic and misleading summarization of the situation.

I'll say this, I think Howson would work in almost the exact same way, even if he could spend to the cap, in the high end UFA market. We'd probably be sitting at around the same cap hit on contracts longer then a year. He'd probably have went after the same players and we'd probably be looking at a very similiar team.
Don't forget the Luongo quote. The point I'm making is that Columbus isn't a city/team that big name players get excited about. Call it prestige or player appeal, what ever you call it, it means the same thing. We won't get the big guns even when we can outbid the other suitors(Redden for example). One day that might change. We'll continue to grow from within and add Tier II character guys through free agency and trades.

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08-18-2009, 03:46 PM
  #98
Aging Goalie
 
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WOW!!! I was not informed the season started next week. Quick make the trade now before we are left in the hole without a way to get out!!! The sky is falling the sky is falling!!!!



We have a full month for things to shake out. There are too many teams up against the cap who will have to make a move for us to be so worked up this freakin early. reading this thread reminds me of two things:
  1. Many on here have the patience of my five year old
  2. and this type of summer response is exactly why you only see the occasional visit or post from many on here during the off-season

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08-18-2009, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by hashmarks View Post
There is just no way around the fact that the last idiot who was in charge left the cupboards pretty bare. The few assets he did manage to come up with are only just entering the league and those are the guys we are going to build around. Perhaps if he didn't waste three top 10 picks on Brule, Picard, and Zherdev, we would have some bargaining chips, but we are at where we are at largely because of where that dimwit left us.
I may be critical of Howson from time to time. However he has done about as well as can be expected with the mess he inherited. Probably better.

If we reflect, how many times have you seen teams with a history of losing make coaching and GM changes only to be in the same situation years later? People might not like the coach or the GM, but we are in a much better place then what we were.

In the end people want to invent reasons why their favorite UFA's aren't brought in. Lack of cash, the player didn't want to come here, then hate the coach, etc. But at the end of the day, the organization could simply just not be interested. Your team or coach may not be ugly, he may simply want to play in the East or have a friend on another team.

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08-18-2009, 03:57 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Nordique View Post
Don't forget the Luongo quote. The point I'm making is that Columbus isn't a city/team that big name players get excited about. Call it prestige or player appeal, what ever you call it, it means the same thing. We won't get the big guns even when we can outbid the other suitors(Redden for example). One day that might change. We'll continue to grow from within and add Tier II character guys through free agency and trades.
As I said I think that's oversimplistic. Seeing as we didn't make a FA offer in the last three years for Luongo, and frankly don't remember the quote. I'm not sure what that has to do with elite FA attempts that Howson has made (since that is what you bolded).

There are always factors when dealing with players in demand (meaning they are getting multiple offers). Some players have thought we have been a good fit, others have selected others for various reasons. Hash brought some additional insight into the Redden situation.

Howson spelled it out our situation well in his Q/A in the blog.

We certaintly aren't the same door mat we were in years past.

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