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When will the CBJ make their next splash?

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Old
08-19-2009, 05:02 PM
  #126
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Originally Posted by KallioWeHardlyKnewYe View Post
But are Williams and Prospal and Bertuzzi stars? Wasn't that the debate?
Wow. Talk about putting an exaggerated value on someone/thing.

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For the record, I agree that I'm sure there are some players that have no desire to play in Columbus, regardless of price.
I know of a player who was faced with an opportunity to get traded to Detroit (who had a chance to win the cup that year)* at the deadline, but opted to stay in his southern-non-hockey market team. It was what was right for his family. Point: there are players who don't want to move anyplace, regardless of team because of circumstance...not just Columbus.

*the wings did go on to win the cup that year...

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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
You are seriously bringing up a quote from the end of 2006 and using that as evidence of... anything...? That was the lowpoint of CBJ history.
...and a quote that wasn't even uttered by Luongo no less.

Quite frankly I don't blame any free agent for not wanting to be here at that time. The org. was a mess and had absolutely no direction or plan or no money to spend. Players don't mind going to teams like that if the are going to 'show them the money' but a combo of all of that AND no money isn't desirable in the least.

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Prospal? Bertuzzi?
Are we really feeling sorry for ourselves because Howson couldn't (not to mention that he didn't care to) sign these guys for the 'steal' that their GM's did? It is the middle of August...these are not deals for good players, these are spare parts to fill roster spots.

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Old
08-19-2009, 05:33 PM
  #127
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As for a splash, I wanted that two summers ago even though I knew we couldn't. Last summer Howson made some significant moves and he did well at the last trade deadline. He's also done well so far this off-season imo.

We have enough splashes on the roster as long as they develop as expected and don't suffer significant injury. I'm on Howson's wagon full bore these days, if he thinks we are good to go without buying a power play puck moving defenseman then it's cool with me. He's proven to me he knows the score in Jacket land.

My splash will be seeing Filatov score 20 goals or more and pot 20 assists. His impact on this team is significant.


Last edited by Robert: 08-19-2009 at 05:38 PM.
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Old
08-20-2009, 07:39 AM
  #128
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
I only responded because I was surprised you posted those bullet points (specifically #2). Your points were well received until then and it seemed somewhat out of character.
Probably so. Just wonder who the next good poster to leave will be sometimes when the discussion just goes in circles over the same stuff.

meh....doesn't really matter I guess. Some of us will never leave

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08-20-2009, 07:49 AM
  #129
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Probably so. Just wonder who the next good poster to leave will be sometimes when the discussion just goes in circles over the same stuff.

meh....doesn't really matter I guess. Some of us will never leave
It's summer! There's nothing for us dogs to do but chase our tails in circles
I am sure every board on this site is going through a similar scenario.

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Old
08-20-2009, 07:54 AM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Robert View Post
As for a splash, I wanted that two summers ago even though I knew we couldn't. Last summer Howson made some significant moves and he did well at the last trade deadline. He's also done well so far this off-season imo.

We have enough splashes on the roster as long as they develop as expected and don't suffer significant injury. I'm on Howson's wagon full bore these days, if he thinks we are good to go without buying a power play puck moving defenseman then it's cool with me. He's proven to me he knows the score in Jacket land.

My splash will be seeing Filatov score 20 goals or more and pot 20 assists. His impact on this team is significant.
I'm with you on that brother!

I was at the game last year and watched Nik score the hat trick. That kid is special. His second goal wrister was as wicked as they come.

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Old
08-20-2009, 07:59 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Aging Goalie View Post
Probably so. Just wonder who the next good poster to leave will be sometimes when the discussion just goes in circles over the same stuff.

meh....doesn't really matter I guess. Some of us will never leave
There is a little function called "ignore thread" that can be utilized by said posters. I can't concern myself with things I can't control. One persons garbage is anothers treasure. I'm not a fan of this discussion, it's been a revision of the same theme for years. However, people have the right to discuss it for the 300th time if they so choose. And complaining about ownership not spending the money the fans think they should is a time honored tradition. Ignoring it just concedes the topic to the opposing view for the undecided.

Ultimately, despite it's flaws, this is one of the better locations for CBJ discussion (if not the best).

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Old
08-20-2009, 08:15 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Nordique View Post
Bertuzzi for 1.5 mil and Prospal for 1.1 mil are steals. Great signings. We pay Chimera 1.75, remember? Whether Howson was in the loop on these guys or not, the point is these are teams that attract players for less than market value. We aren't there yet.
You have an overblown sense of these players worth. You are making the assumption that Prospal and Bertuzzi were in demand and would have received more elsewhere. And that Prospal is still top 6.

You're ability to make assumptions and promote them as fact with nothing to back up your opinion is impressive.

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Old
08-20-2009, 08:33 AM
  #133
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I can't concern myself with things I can't control.
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You're ability to make assumptions and promote them as fact with nothing to back up your opinion is impressive.
You might try to control your snarkiness. It rarely adds much to your arguments (though I have nothing to back that up with - just an opinion).

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08-20-2009, 08:38 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
You might try to control your snarkiness. It rarely adds much to your arguments (though I have nothing to back that up with - just an opinion).
Thanks Pete, I needed that laugh!

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Old
08-20-2009, 09:05 AM
  #135
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Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
You might try to control your snarkiness. It rarely adds much to your arguments (though I have nothing to back that up with - just an opinion).
Asking me to remove sarcasm is like asking me not to breath. So I won't concern myself with it.

Trying to make the arguement that NY and Detroit signed these players at what he perceives as below market value and that this somehow translates to how players perceive our team is... flawed... To put it as nicely as possible. Or that if we had offereded either player the same contract they would not have come here.

None of the evidence that has provided can be verified or even assembled to form a pattern.

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08-20-2009, 09:48 AM
  #136
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Unloading 85% (32 of 38) of the roster he inherited barely two calendar years ago would certainly qualify as a big splash for Howson. Doing that and seeing the two best seasons in franchise history would seem to indicate that it's working as well.

But what do I know anyway?

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Old
08-20-2009, 10:22 AM
  #137
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I wouldnt think that Prospal is in high demand, but I certainly would have had no problem adding him to our team for $1.1m for 1 year, we'll need the NHL depth when injuries hit

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Old
08-20-2009, 11:20 AM
  #138
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At this point in history, I don't see the Rangers as a prestige organization -- or Toronto for that matter. I can see players potentially going to places like Detroit or Pittsburgh for less than market value, but not NYR or TML. If anything, the Rangers and Leafs seem to be laughingstocks because of the way they've been managed, and that can't be very attractive, regardless of where the teams are. In contrast, I think Columbus is starting to establish a reputation for sensible (if not "splashy") management and growth, which should make us more attractive to serious, committed, competitive players.

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08-20-2009, 11:26 AM
  #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PA28Flyer View Post
At this point in history, I don't see the Rangers as a prestige organization -- or Toronto for that matter. I can see players potentially going to places like Detroit or Pittsburgh for less than market value, but not NYR or TML. If anything, the Rangers and Leafs seem to be laughingstocks because of the way they've been managed, and that can't be very attractive, regardless of where the teams are. In contrast, I think Columbus is starting to establish a reputation for sensible (if not "splashy") management and growth, which should make us more attractive to serious, committed, competitive players.
I don't know about that.

But the players who want to avoid the major media markets such as Toronto and Montreal are sizable. The media in that place is insane, just take a look at the Montreal Gangster "Scandal."

It doesn't matter if it's Columbus, Chicago, or Calgary. There is always going to be a chunk of free agents who will avoid a city for one reason or another.

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08-20-2009, 11:40 AM
  #140
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Originally Posted by BluejacketNut View Post
I wouldnt think that Prospal is in high demand, but I certainly would have had no problem adding him to our team for $1.1m for 1 year, we'll need the NHL depth when injuries hit
Pretty much what I said about Williams. And I wouldn't have complained about Prospal in that context as well. Doesn't appear as though the CBJ management is in the same line of thinking.

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08-20-2009, 11:42 AM
  #141
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It doesn't matter if it's Columbus, Chicago, or Calgary. There is always going to be a chunk of free agents who will avoid a city for one reason or another.
No arguement there.

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08-20-2009, 01:18 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
You might try to control your snarkiness. It rarely adds much to your arguments (though I have nothing to back that up with - just an opinion).

This snarkiness is basic ad hominem, and I agree it contributes nothing to the conversation. Its often a sign that someone's point of view can't stand on its own merits, so they feel the need to compensate with personal commentary. To be fair, we're all human and we all inject a bit of it in our posts.

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08-20-2009, 01:37 PM
  #143
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I doubt that Williams would have signed here for 1.5 million, regardless of what he said in the newpaper about wanting to stay in Columbus because its a great town.

Furthermore, I don't think Bertuzzi comes here for 1.5, nor Prospal for 1.1.

My point I'm trying to make is that the Bluejackets don't have the same appeal to free agents that the Red Wings and Rangers do. Until we do, we're going to be a leg down in free agency. How do you change that? Well making the playoffs consistently is a good start.

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08-20-2009, 01:57 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Nordique View Post
This snarkiness is basic ad hominem, and I agree it contributes nothing to the conversation. Its often a sign that someone's point of view can't stand on its own merits, so they feel the need to compensate with personal commentary. To be fair, we're all human and we all inject a bit of it in our posts.
I would argue that ad hominem is frequently a result of frustration over the same stupidity continuously being repeated regardless of a quality logical argument against it.

As I've seen it on other boards it's generally the intelligent posters who resort to ad hominem when the morons keep bringing up the same old ****, no matter how many times it's been debunked(e.g. The Fermi Paradox).

edit: Better example of what I mean: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xB-KKRLVmZc


Last edited by Jimayo: 08-20-2009 at 02:40 PM.
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Old
08-20-2009, 02:00 PM
  #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordique View Post
I doubt that Williams would have signed here for 1.5 million, regardless of what he said in the newpaper about wanting to stay in Columbus because its a great town.

Furthermore, I don't think Bertuzzi comes here for 1.5, nor Prospal for 1.1.

My point I'm trying to make is that the Bluejackets don't have the same appeal to free agents that the Red Wings and Rangers do. Until we do, we're going to be a leg down in free agency. How do you change that? Well making the playoffs consistently is a good start.
The problem is that you're not basing that on anything concrete outside of a quote by Roberto Luongo's agent during some of our darker days and getting snubbed by a 3-4 defenseman who wanted #1 money and term.

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08-20-2009, 02:26 PM
  #146
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And this thread has become similar to recent trade threads...

Group 1: "The Jackets won't make a splash because we have no money"
Group 2: "The Jackets won't make a splash because Howson is cheap"
Group 3: "The Jackets won't make a splash because nobody wants to come here because we aren't winning"
Group 4: "The Jackets won't make a splash because nobody wants to come here because we're Columbus"
Group 5: "The Jackets won't make a splash, but I want new shiny players."

We all agree, yet are still fighting over semantics because it's the offseason and there's nothing else better to do.

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08-20-2009, 02:43 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by Nordique View Post
This snarkiness is basic ad hominem.
I suppose, if you believe what I said was a personal attack against your credibility. However, the claims of ad hominem would have been more credible had I not argured each of your points before I suggested that you attempt to put forth assumptions as fact.

To your original post, I'm am still looking for an arguement to support your case that is based in fact.

1. The Redden situation had evidence that seemed to indicate the decision was made before the FA period started and had little to nothing to do with the Jackets org.
2. The Richards opinion is all gut feel.
3. The Luongo quote was 3 years ago and during what was likely the lowest point in Jackets history. And Hash suggested the authenticity of the quote is in question.

At which point the debate switched to trying to bring in non-star players in what appears to be an attempt to give credibility to your arguement.

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08-20-2009, 02:44 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by Skraut View Post
And this thread has become similar to recent trade threads...

Group 1: "The Jackets won't make a splash because we have no money"
Group 2: "The Jackets won't make a splash because Howson is cheap"
Group 3: "The Jackets won't make a splash because nobody wants to come here because we aren't winning"
Group 4: "The Jackets won't make a splash because nobody wants to come here because we're Columbus"
Group 5: "The Jackets won't make a splash, but I want new shiny players."

We all agree, yet are still fighting over semantics because it's the offseason and there's nothing else better to do.
I submit that there is a Group 6 you omitted: "The Jackets won't make a splash because The Kids Are Alright, In Hitch/Howson We Trust."

Also, I'm pretty sure some folks here are in multiple groups.

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08-20-2009, 02:46 PM
  #149
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I submit that there is a Group 6 you omitted: "The Jackets won't make a splash because The Kids Are Alright, In Hitch/Howson We Trust."

Also, I'm pretty sure some folks here are in multiple groups.
I'm a Group 6'er.

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Old
08-20-2009, 02:54 PM
  #150
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I'm a Group 6'er.
I am in the "The right player is not available" crowd.

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