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Old
08-17-2009, 04:51 AM
  #26
Qvist
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Not a badly constructed proposal, but I doubt the Sharks would give up Michalek or especially Vlasic.

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Old
08-17-2009, 04:53 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Discipline View Post
Assuming Cheechoo halts the major suck, I would do the deal as an Edmonton fan.
If there was a perceived high likelihood of that, you wouldn't be able to acquire him for Dustin Penner.

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Old
08-17-2009, 10:18 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by OilGagner89 View Post
Easily.. Penner at 4.25 for 3 more years over Cheechoo at 3.0 for 1 year and they both will get around the same amount of points?
I think that will change this year. Based on what I saw at the end of last year, and the new coaching regime, I think we'll see a renewed focus and work ethic from a younger Penner. I think he'll get over 30 goals and be more of a force around the net, especially on the PP. I don't see that coming from Cheechoo, cheaper or not.
If I'm wrong, oh well, wouldn't be the first time.


Last edited by Oilfan2: 08-17-2009 at 10:27 AM.
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Old
08-17-2009, 11:15 AM
  #29
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Right..

Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
If we are willing to move Vlasic, Michalek and a pick/prospect, why does Edmonton need to be involved at all?

Doesn't make sense.
Well hero if you actually read the OP you'd know that Michalek and Vlasic were not put in the same trade. It was Michalek OR Vlasic + Penner + Prospect OR Pick in the scenarios suggested.

Penner for Cheechoo is the reason to get Edmonton involved. It seems that fans of both teams would like to see those guys go. San Jose has pushed hard for Cheechoo to be part of any Heatley deal but Murray clearly likes Penner better. Simple logic really.

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Old
08-17-2009, 11:20 AM
  #30
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Uh no?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
Yes, moving Cheechoo or Murray for peanuts would get us back to cap. However, then you're talking about moving Michalek and one of Vlasic or Ehrhoff to get the deal done. That's not going to work from San Jose's perspective.
No I'm not. Why are people on this forum illiterate?

The trade was proposed as:
Michalek + Penner
OR
Vlasic + Penner

That's two options and never were Michalek and Vlasic suggested to both be moved. If you're talking about a move afterward to get under the cap I suggest dumping Murray and his 2.5M. In neither situation do I see you losing both Michalek and Vlasic. You're losing one of them, and rightly so. Heater does have some value you know .

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08-17-2009, 11:44 AM
  #31
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Actually, you are the one who didn't read correctly. Pinkfloyd didn't say that you proposed Michalek and Vlasic for Heatley, just that trading both would be needed to get under the cap, or someone else with that kind of salary.

Trading Cheechoo and Murray would be enough to get the current team under the cap. Add Heatley's 7.5 million and the Sharks would have to lose at least 6-7 million in return, which means two out of Michalek, Clowe, Vlasic or Ehrhoff.

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Old
08-17-2009, 12:45 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bejamin1 View Post
No I'm not. Why are people on this forum illiterate?

The trade was proposed as:
Michalek + Penner
OR
Vlasic + Penner

That's two options and never were Michalek and Vlasic suggested to both be moved. If you're talking about a move afterward to get under the cap I suggest dumping Murray and his 2.5M. In neither situation do I see you losing both Michalek and Vlasic. You're losing one of them, and rightly so. Heater does have some value you know .
Did you misspell your user name?

I'm missing the "damned decent" part of this thread/proposal


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Old
08-17-2009, 06:13 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bejamin1 View Post
No I'm not. Why are people on this forum illiterate?

The trade was proposed as:
Michalek + Penner
OR
Vlasic + Penner

That's two options and never were Michalek and Vlasic suggested to both be moved. If you're talking about a move afterward to get under the cap I suggest dumping Murray and his 2.5M. In neither situation do I see you losing both Michalek and Vlasic. You're losing one of them, and rightly so. Heater does have some value you know .
Do some damn research on the Sharks cap situation before you assume that it's going to work for them. They are about 3.5 mil over right now with a proposed full lineup. Moving Cheechoo gives out 3 mil with a required replacement of 500k or a real savings of 2.5 leaving at least 1 mil over the cap. Moving Douglas Murray saves 2 mil and gives the Sharks 1 mil of cap space. Now, you're asking that the deal be either Michalek or Vlasic for Heatley. The deal then puts the Sharks at least 3.2 mil back over the cap. Meaning, there is at least another 3.7 million to account for in order to get rid of a salary and bring in a very cheap replacement and get back under the cap.

Like it's been said repeatedly, if no NTC is waived, you're asking the Sharks to move Michalek, one of Ehrhoff or Vlasic, Cheechoo, and at least Brad Lukowich but most likely Douglas Murray in order to get under the cap.

It does NOT work for the Sharks....end of story...get over it.

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Old
08-17-2009, 06:19 PM
  #34
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The only way Heatley to the Sharks can really makes sense is if Marleau is moved.

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Old
08-18-2009, 05:06 AM
  #35
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Take Penner over Cheechoo anyday.

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Old
08-18-2009, 09:44 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OilCanada92 View Post
Take Penner over Cheechoo anyday.
Someone from Edmonton prefers a player on their team than another.

Also, water is wet.

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Old
08-19-2009, 12:27 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Bridge View Post
Someone from Edmonton prefers a player on their team than another.

Also, water is wet.
Penner
2007-08: 23 goals/47 points
2008-09: 17 goals/37 points

Cheechoo
2007-08: 23 goals/37 points
2008-09: 12 goals/29 points

Considering how small the Oilers top 6 is and the fact that Penner produces at a better rate, I think he's worth the 1.25M difference in salary.

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Old
08-19-2009, 12:36 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OilCanada92 View Post
Penner
2007-08: 23 goals/47 points
2008-09: 17 goals/37 points

Cheechoo
2007-08: 23 goals/37 points
2008-09: 12 goals/29 points

Considering how small the Oilers top 6 is and the fact that Penner produces at a better rate, I think he's worth the 1.25M difference in salary.
Penner takes every other shift off. Cheechoo is nothing but hustle.

Cheechoo also played last year almost entirely on the 3rd line.

Cheechoo, any day.

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Old
08-19-2009, 12:55 AM
  #39
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Edmonton only does this deal if they want a higher draft pick next season... and next year's draft is supposed to be weaker than the past few. Gets rid of Penner's salary.

If Cheechoo could play LW it would be a different matter.

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Old
08-19-2009, 01:02 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
Penner takes every other shift off. Cheechoo is nothing but hustle.

Cheechoo also played last year almost entirely on the 3rd line.

Cheechoo, any day.
That's all kind of irrelevant. His main point was about the size. I could be wrong but I believe Penner is the only player in the Oilers top 6 listed at above 200 lbs. The Oilers don't need Cheechoo.

...and Cheechoo was most likely on the 3rd line because he deserved to be there. He scored 56 goals a few years ago. If he was still capable he'd be able to fake his way onto the 2nd line. He doesn't have it in him. All reports say he's lost that speed that made him so effective.

In the end teams are in it to win games and even with Penner taking every other shift off he put up more goals, points and addresses a need that the Oilers are still in desperate need of...size.

It's really not that crazy of a thought to think the Oilers wouldn't want Cheechoo over Penner. Especially when there is only a 1.25M difference.

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Old
08-19-2009, 01:11 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
Penner takes every other shift off. Cheechoo is nothing but hustle.

Cheechoo also played last year almost entirely on the 3rd line.

Cheechoo, any day.
You forgot to add that Cheechoo also played on the best team in the WC and the 2nd best team in the league for the Regular season. I'm not defending that proposal cause I still would do a Cheechoo for Penner trade based on salary issues.

Just thought i'd point that out.

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Old
08-19-2009, 01:15 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OilGagner89 View Post
You forgot to add that Cheechoo also played on the best team in the WC and the 2nd best team in the league for the Regular season. I'm not defending that proposal cause I still would do a Cheechoo for Penner trade based on salary issues.

Just thought i'd point that out.
You don't think Cheechoo wouldn't bring his own salary issues? Why?

Many Oilers fans think that it might be in the teams best interest to move a younger Nilsson at 2M after a 29 point season. Cheechoo is coming off a 29 point season as well and is making 3M. At least Penner brings something we have very little of. If we trade Penner for Cheechoo I would give that open spot in the top 6 to Nilsson.

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Old
08-19-2009, 01:19 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheatking View Post
You don't think Cheechoo wouldn't bring his own salary issues? Why?

Many Oilers fans think that it might be in the teams best interest to move a younger Nilsson at 2M after a 29 point season. Cheechoo is coming off a 29 point season as well and is making 3M. At least Penner brings something we have very little of. If we trade Penner for Cheechoo I would give that open spot in the top 6 to Nilsson.
I'd rather Cheechoo at 3 million for 1 more year than Penner at 4.25 for 3 more years. But yes, i'd rather move Nilsson than anything by far.

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Old
08-19-2009, 01:32 AM
  #44
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People can rag on Penner all they want but under the worst circumstances possible he can still manage to put up nearly 20 goals. Hes already proven hes capable of much more then that and theres no reason to believe with a bit more EV and PP time he can't drastically improve his numbers from last year.

Penner is a much a better player then Cheechoo and even with Penners contract off the books I don't see any players jumping out willing to fill his goal scoring and size esspecially on the PP. Therefore it makes no sense to do this from a Oilers POV unless our plan is to tank and rebuild.

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Old
08-19-2009, 01:51 AM
  #45
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I just don't understand why the Oilers would participate in a trade to facilitate Heatley moving to another team?

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Old
08-19-2009, 03:18 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HuMz View Post
People can rag on Penner all they want but under the worst circumstances possible he can still manage to put up nearly 20 goals. Hes already proven hes capable of much more then that and theres no reason to believe with a bit more EV and PP time he can't drastically improve his numbers from last year.

Penner is a much a better player then Cheechoo and even with Penners contract off the books I don't see any players jumping out willing to fill his goal scoring and size esspecially on the PP. Therefore it makes no sense to do this from a Oilers POV unless our plan is to tank and rebuild.
You can get the same production out of Cheechoo that you get from Penner for less money and less term. Neither are worth their salary at this rate but it'll be easier for the Oilers to move Cheechoo at 3 mil cap hit with only 7 mil to spend than a 4.25 cap hit over three years with the same 4.25 salary.

If it was available to the Oilers to cut their losses with Penner, I think they'd take it. However, Heatley to the Sharks was never really on the table and was never going to happen.

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Old
08-19-2009, 04:46 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HuMz View Post
People can rag on Penner all they want but under the worst circumstances possible he can still manage to put up nearly 20 goals. Hes already proven hes capable of much more then that and theres no reason to believe with a bit more EV and PP time he can't drastically improve his numbers from last year.

Penner is a much a better player then Cheechoo and even with Penners contract off the books I don't see any players jumping out willing to fill his goal scoring and size esspecially on the PP. Therefore it makes no sense to do this from a Oilers POV unless our plan is to tank and rebuild.
If you define 29 as "much better than that", yes. But if you apply the same logic to Cheechoo, what he has already shown himself capable of is 56 goals and a Richard Trophy. There are excellent reasons to assume Penner won't drastically improve his numbers from last year, namely that he's been declining for two straight years out of 3-year NHL career. He's got one single semi-good season to show for himself, that's it. Also, he hasn't been much of a playoff scorer - 6 goals in 34 playoff games.

Personally I wouldn't touch either of these players with a ten-foot pole, unless I was desperate enough to gamble. And if I were, Cheechoo clearly represents vastly superior upside compared to Penner.

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Old
08-19-2009, 08:37 AM
  #48
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To Ottawa
-Penner(4.25)
-Michalek(4.3)
-Vlassic(3.1)

To SJ
-Heatley(7.5)
-Smid(1.3)
-Edmonton 2nd round pick

To Edmonton
-Cheechoo(3.0)
-Kelly(2.125)
-Picard(0.800)

Ottawa gives away $10.425 cap hit and takes on $11.65 forcing them to deal or demote Smith($2.6 cap hit) to get under the cap. They get a top 6 forward, a top 9 forward with size who Murray likes and a top 4 dman.

SJ gives away $10.4 cap hit and takes on $8.8 cap hit thus saving $1.6 cap space. They get their bonafide elite winger to play with Jumbo Joe, keep Seto and a solid young dman who is signed for cheap for two more years plus a draft pick and they get rid of Cheechoo.

Edmonton gives away $5.55 cap hit and takes on $5.925. They get rid of Penner for two wingers who can play in their top 9 plus a young cheap dman with potential.

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Old
08-19-2009, 09:24 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harfo1 View Post
To Ottawa
-Penner(4.25)
-Michalek(4.3)
-Vlassic(3.1)

To SJ
-Heatley(7.5)
-Smid(1.3)
-Edmonton 2nd round pick

To Edmonton
-Cheechoo(3.0)
-Kelly(2.125)
-Picard(0.800)

Ottawa gives away $10.425 cap hit and takes on $11.65 forcing them to deal or demote Smith($2.6 cap hit) to get under the cap. They get a top 6 forward, a top 9 forward with size who Murray likes and a top 4 dman.

SJ gives away $10.4 cap hit and takes on $8.8 cap hit thus saving $1.6 cap space. They get their bonafide elite winger to play with Jumbo Joe, keep Seto and a solid young dman who is signed for cheap for two more years plus a draft pick and they get rid of Cheechoo.

Edmonton gives away $5.55 cap hit and takes on $5.925. They get rid of Penner for two wingers who can play in their top 9 plus a young cheap dman with potential.
That's pretty decent. Problem is we'd STILL be over the cap. We'd need to trade Nabby or Marleau after this to make it work.

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Old
08-19-2009, 10:37 AM
  #50
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Some people never learn.

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