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Why Didn't We Make the Playoffs?

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Old
04-03-2004, 05:05 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperNintendoChalmrs
January may be the start of the calendar year, but it isn't the start of the NHL season. For some reason the Sabres have had difficulty with this concept for 3 years now.

Whaddaya gonna do.....bring on the draft and the impending lockout.
Let's pray for the lockout to last until January.

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04-04-2004, 09:41 AM
  #27
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goaltending.

I felt the same positive feeling at the end of the '02 and '03 seasons, and we see what happened. I hooted and hollered at the beginning of the season regarding Biron only should be given until the end of October to prove he's the number one as he will certainly get hot the second half when we will be too far behind, and what happens? He eventually wins the job by January as our only alternative was Norenen.

The issue remains that he is not the goalie to handle the load of getting a team into the post season, but would be a very good backup for a contender. Someone like Toronto should have someone like him as an insurace policy.


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Old
04-05-2004, 08:36 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Afinogenov61
Can I just make a list?

1) the 7 game losing streak...why didnt Darcy make the trades he did then?
2) bad bounces, such as the Boston game
3) blown leads, 2-0 vs Pitt, 5-2 vs TO and the really bad one vs Minnesota where we let them tie and win in the last 90 seconds...3-4 points thrown away.
4) 0-4 vs the Isles

I think that sums it up. And as SNC said in the "Punish Montreal" thread, it's not their fault we couldn't win vs the Isles or we took a dump in December. Stop blaming Montreal, Carolina, TB and everyone else the Isles beat lately.
1. Exactly. Also why didn't he make a deal when half our defense was injured?
2. We got good bounces too. You make your own luck. Derek Roy's goal against Atlanta, for instance.
3. Blown leads are inexcusable, but we did have a lot of great comebacks too. Down 3-0 against Toronto, down 3-1 against Atlanta, etc.

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04-05-2004, 09:39 AM
  #29
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Going 0-4 against the Isles stands out to me.

And when talking about inconsistent goaltending in the 1st half, please include Mika Noronen and the defense in the problem, not just Biron. Blaming Biron for the slow start this season is laughable.

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04-05-2004, 09:41 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fan-of-#9
Blaming Biron for the slow start this season is laughable.
And crowning him the clearcut #1 next season is even funnier.

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04-05-2004, 09:46 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeo21
And crowning him the clearcut #1 next season is even funnier.
And claiming that Mika would provide more consistency and a better chance at the playoffs next season has me on the ground rolling around in tears. :lol

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04-06-2004, 08:59 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fan-of-#9
Going 0-4 against the Isles stands out to me.

And when talking about inconsistent goaltending in the 1st half, please include Mika Noronen and the defense in the problem, not just Biron. Blaming Biron for the slow start this season is laughable.
Noronen was very consistent in the first half. He had a bad second half, but his first half was stellar. Noronen wasn't the reason we started slow. His save percentage was better than .920.

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Old
04-06-2004, 09:11 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fan-of-#9
And claiming that Mika would provide more consistency and a better chance at the playoffs next season has me on the ground rolling around in tears. :lol
Well Marty had his shot...and failed...three straight seasons. That's fact not presumption. What makes you think next season will be any different? I don't see the humor.

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Old
04-06-2004, 09:37 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeo21
Well Marty had his shot...and failed...three straight seasons. That's fact not presumption. What makes you think next season will be any different? I don't see the humor.
Well considering Marty has been playing behind a putrid defense for a considerable amount of his career, I'd say that his chances along with the team's chances are considerably better now. Biron-haters make it seem as if Biron has had a horrible career. Check the stats, W-L, SV%, GAA, all of it..Biron is probably above average with all things considered. In 01-02 he had a great season playing 72 games. Last year he *along with the rest of the team* had a horrible season. This year he did just fine IMO.

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04-06-2004, 09:54 AM
  #35
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Biron played good this year.Had way better stats then Vokoun who people think is great.


Vokoun:
73 GP
34-29-10
2.53
.909


Biron:
52 GP
26-18-5
2.52
.913

Hmmmm,better SVP and GAA then this all-star goalie and has 8 less wins in what...21 less games?Biron plays 73 games,he is on pace for 37 wins.I find no reason why he didn't have an all-star second half.Everyone had a bad 1st half almost,so why should be blame Biron for becoming a legit goalie.Biron has the potential next year to become a top 10 goalie.Get him to play the puck less and he will become better.Very good stats for a goalie making 2.2 million.

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04-06-2004, 10:03 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fan-of-#9
Well considering Marty has been playing behind a putrid defense for a considerable amount of his career, I'd say that his chances along with the team's chances are considerably better now.
We added two bottom-pairing d-men. And Zhitnik is all but gone.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fan-of-#9
Biron-haters make it seem as if Biron has had a horrible career. Check the stats, W-L, SV%, GAA, all of it..Biron is probably above average with all things considered.
Why bring up numbers now? I thought the pro-Biron argument was based on the fact that he mysteriously just gets wins... By the way, wins are wins and playoff appearances are playoff appearances.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fan-of-#9
This year he did just fine IMO.
Keep kicking. The flood of complacency and false hope has a horrid riptide.

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Old
04-06-2004, 10:07 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielBriere48
Biron played good this year.
You people are insane. Untimely, soft goals are not measurable with statistics. It's just another "intangable" like grit and leadership, though a negative one.

Biron will never be a guy that can hold a solid starting job without considerable support from a backup because of it.

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04-06-2004, 10:17 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jj@jj.com
Biron will never be a guy that can hold a solid starting job without considerable support from a backup because of it.

Biron never got support from any backup because Miller and Noronen were horrible too then.Untimely goals happen,and that's why I said to tell him not to play the puck as much.I think Biron will have a succesful career.I don't think 250-300 career wins are out of the question.Biron gets in the playoffs,I just have a feeling he would dominate.We all know that he can get extremely hot and post 2-3 shutouts in a row.We'll just see next year because we will make them next year (If we don't,Darcy and Lindy are definitely gone)

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Old
04-06-2004, 10:54 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jj@jj.com
You people are insane. Untimely, soft goals are not measurable with statistics. It's just another "intangable" like grit and leadership, though a negative one.

Biron will never be a guy that can hold a solid starting job without considerable support from a backup because of it.
This league has great goalies like Brodeur and Belfour.
Then there are *younger* goalies who look like they may become great, Turco, Theodore and Luongo.
Then you have the real young kids like Dipietro and Raycroft...the jury is still out on them.

Then what? (no order)
Cloutier
Nabokov
Khabibulin
Lalime
Weekes
Thibault
Biron
Cechmanek
Giguere
Conklin
Roloson
Dunham
Osgood
Aebischer

Would you folks rather have Cloutier, Van-City's whipping boy?
Or Choke-manek? Giggy? Lalime? Really Who??? How many goalies would really make us that much better.

And Theodore sure as hell ain't no guru of consistency. Belfour is 40, and Brodeur is THE MAN, too bad we don't have him. Turco would be nice, Dipietro would not have pushed this team any further than we got this season.

Stop dogging Biron and look at what's out there. There are not many team with better and more consistent goaltending than us. There might be 15% of the league with a better goaltending position than us.

We would have been better with:
Belfour
Brodeur
Turco

Arguably better with:
Luongo
Theodore
Raycroft
Roloson

Probably the same with:
Dipietro
Aebischer
Khabibulin
Kolzig
Nabokov

Possibly the same but maybe worse this year with:
Lalime
Cechmanek
Weekes
Cloutier
Vokoun
Legace
Osgood

Probably a worse team with:
Giguere
Salo
Esche
Nurminen
Dunham

This team and its fans got SPOILED with Dominik Hasek and now it's really starting to show. BIRON < HASEK -> FACE IT!

There are only 11 goalies in the entire league that have played more than 60 games, what does that tell you?

Lalime could not be counted on. Nabokov struggled early. Giguere was a complete joke this year. Choke-manek was horrid. Esche struggled. Boucher is 10X worse than Biron.

IMO this league currently has Belfour, Brodeur THEN Turco, Luongo, Theodore THEN everyone else. In a year or two that will probably change.

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Old
04-06-2004, 10:57 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielBriere48
Biron never got support from any backup because Miller and Noronen were horrible too then.Untimely goals happen,and that's why I said to tell him not to play the puck as much.I think Biron will have a succesful career.I don't think 250-300 career wins are out of the question.Biron gets in the playoffs,I just have a feeling he would dominate.We all know that he can get extremely hot and post 2-3 shutouts in a row.We'll just see next year because we will make them next year (If we don't,Darcy and Lindy are definitely gone)
The thing is, when Biron hits the skids, it's like 4 or 5 or 6 games in a row, letting in garbage. I agree that he needed the support of a backup this year, but I also think he got far to many chances to grab the number one. I just can't sit though a third season of that.

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Old
04-06-2004, 11:09 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jj@jj.com
The thing is, when Biron hits the skids, it's like 4 or 5 or 6 games in a row, letting in garbage. I agree that he needed the support of a backup this year, but I also think he got far to many chances to grab the number one. I just can't sit though a third season of that.
Only referring to this season, I don't think Biron was given a fair shot...

First it was Miller, we all know how that went...

Then it was Mika....he did OK, but the team didn't rally around him...

Then there was nobody else to turn to except Marty and he nearly got us in the playoffs.

Biron played 35 games from December 31 to the end of the season.
He only played 16 games from October to the end of December.

16 games over a period of almost 3 months is not a fair chance.

Biron's worst stretch of the year was 0-2-2, where he posted a .884 SV%....sorry folks but that happens at least once a year. BTW, those 4 games were over the period of 15 days, hardly given time to get in the groove.

Another bad stretch he had was 3 straight losses - IN A PERIOD OF 20 DAYS!!!

I fail to see when Marty couldn't handle the duties as our #1.

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Old
04-06-2004, 11:21 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jj@jj.com
The thing is, when Biron hits the skids, it's like 4 or 5 or 6 games in a row, letting in garbage. I agree that he needed the support of a backup this year, but I also think he got far to many chances to grab the number one. I just can't sit though a third season of that.
I'm only referring to this season, but Biron wasn't given a fair chance from the get-go this year.

Biron played 16 games from October to the end of December. I'm sure Mika played more than that.

From December 31 until the end of the season Marty played 35 games. The reason for this was because of what happened to Miller in his 2 starts, and because the team was obviously not playing well when Mika was given his shot...we weren't winning plain and simple.

Biron had *2* bad stretches this year:

Winless in 4 : 0-2-2 (span of 15 days)
Lost 3 in a row : 0-3 (span of 20 days!!!)

Considering the fact that during those bad streaks Biron was plaing once every 4 days and once every 6-7 days....I still don't see where Biron failed in his duty as this team's #1. Goalies have bad streaks, just as scorers have dry spells. It's time that we get over it...I'm sure every other starting goalie in the league has had jsut as bad or worse streaks somewhere along the lines this year. This team didn't play well enough to start the season...not Biron....the team.

Could Noronen have lead us in the final 3 months to one of the best records in the Eastern Conference? That's up for debate...Noronen hasn't proved he can that's for sure.

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04-06-2004, 11:24 AM
  #43
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*didn't realize my first post was actually posted* -they're basically the same.

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04-06-2004, 09:11 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeo21
Keep kicking. The flood of complacency and false hope has a horrid riptide.
Complacency? Whatever... It's so much better to pick a scapegoat to blame all the teams woes on. Hockey is a team sport. When the whole team deosn't show up as it did many times early in the season, it doesn't matter who is in goal.

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04-06-2004, 10:04 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djhn579
Complacency? Whatever... It's so much better to pick a scapegoat to blame all the teams woes on. Hockey is a team sport. When the whole team deosn't show up as it did many times early in the season, it doesn't matter who is in goal.
Scapegoat? Biron is just one of several. Trust me...Satan and Regier are viable contenders.

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Old
04-07-2004, 08:00 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fan-of-#9
Stop dogging Biron and look at what's out there. There are not many team with better and more consistent goaltending than us. There might be 15% of the league with a better goaltending position than us.
Facts are a *****:
http://www.sportsline.com/nhl/stats/...IE?&_1:col_1=8

Sabres team goaltending was 21st. 21st in the NHL doesn't get you in the playoffs. It means that there 66% of the teams out there with better goaltending than us.

By goaltender:
http://www.sportsline.com/nhl/stats/...rint_rows=9999

Biron is 23rd among goalies with 25 or more games.

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Old
04-07-2004, 08:11 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fan-of-#9
Only referring to this season, I don't think Biron was given a fair shot...

First it was Miller, we all know how that went...

Then it was Mika....he did OK, but the team didn't rally around him...

Then there was nobody else to turn to except Marty and he nearly got us in the playoffs.

Biron played 35 games from December 31 to the end of the season.
He only played 16 games from October to the end of December.

16 games over a period of almost 3 months is not a fair chance.

Biron's worst stretch of the year was 0-2-2, where he posted a .884 SV%....sorry folks but that happens at least once a year. BTW, those 4 games were over the period of 15 days, hardly given time to get in the groove.

Another bad stretch he had was 3 straight losses - IN A PERIOD OF 20 DAYS!!!

I fail to see when Marty couldn't handle the duties as our #1.
Biron didn't get a fair shot? He played more games than any other goalie.

Miller didn't get a fair shot. 2 games and back to Rochester? That's fair, especially considering the 0 goals the Sabres scored in his first two games.

Mika did okay? His first half was as good as Biron's second half. Biron's second half had a .920 save percentage. Noronen's first half had a save percentage of .924. If Noronen was okay in the first half, then Biron was okay in the second half.

16 games in 3 months isn't a fair shot, but 21 games in 3 months is? 3 games in 3 months is?

Biron's worst stretch was November and December, where he lost Ruff's confidence, where he had an .887 save percentage and was 3-6 in 10 starts. Not four games. Two months.

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04-07-2004, 08:13 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fan-of-#9
This team didn't play well enough to start the season...not Biron....the team.
That's no excuse for forgiving Biron's .899 save percentage thru December, especially when Noronen's save percentage was .924.

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04-07-2004, 08:42 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LALALALALALAFONTAINE
Mika did okay? His first half was as good as Biron's second half. Biron's second half had a .920 save percentage. Noronen's first half had a save percentage of .924. If Noronen was okay in the first half, then Biron was okay in the second half.
I personally felt that the door what open for Mika, but he couldn't capitalize on the opportunity. By the time he was starting to look like he had a shot at holding on to the #1, Biron grabbed the job back and the Sabres were on streak. Unfortunatly, when Biron let up a little after that, Norenen was not ready and didn't perform all that well, or the team didn't play that well in front of him, whatever the case, they did not win with him in net.

The issue at hand here is that this team has a tandem of TWO slow starters, and that doesn't add up to the playoffs. If Miller were any kind of Opportunist, he'll work his behind off to come into camp and take the job.

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04-07-2004, 08:46 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LALALALALALAFONTAINE
That's no excuse for forgiving Biron's .899 save percentage thru December, especially when Noronen's save percentage was .924.
I'd like to just add to this point that this is emerging as a pattern for Biron, and this is why the team needs to go in a different direction.

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