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Ottawa - Dallas Trade

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Old
08-17-2009, 04:11 PM
  #26
asd74
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Originally Posted by Alistar View Post
fair enough if the Salary is comparable, but when you're talking about 2 players making less then 3 mill combined outproducing 1 guy making 7.5 and on the downside of his career (and yes Heatley is trending down, the fact is he's approaching 30 and probably won't get back to his career highs - if he does it will be a 1 time dream season type thing) then I have to draw the line. To me Dany Heatley at this point is a 40 goal scorer at best and although you can pretty much guarantee 35-40 goals from him he's not the franchise player worth trading these assets for.

This deal would cripple the Stars next season when they have to re-sign all their RFA's. If this goes through Dallas could pretty much kiss goodbye to 1 or more of James Neal, Matt Niskanen, and Fabian Brunnstrom.
Danny Heatleys stats since the lockout
2005-06 OTT 82 50 53 103 29
2006-07 OTT 82 50 55 105 31
2007-08 OTT 71 41 41 82 33
2008-09 OTT 82 39 33 72

I hate Heatley can`t stand him wish he sucked etc. But he is a consistant 40 to 50 goal scorer over a point a game. He can break a game open and win it himself. He is 28 years old prime for a forward. Other than Ovechkin and maybe Kovalchuk there isn`t a better sniper. He is not terrible defensively too I don`t see where that comes from. Unfortunately I have the pleasure of watching him ruin the Leafs. Erikkson is signed for 1 more year then he is going to expect a raise. Two for 1 argument doesnt make sense because you don`t consider the other player that plays in the top 6 instead of the other. There is a reason you cant trade stajan and ponikorovski for crosby or ovechking. But they make 5 million less combined

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Old
08-17-2009, 04:12 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by asd74 View Post
A player of heatleys caliber you make room for him
No, Dallas doesn't.

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Old
08-17-2009, 04:16 PM
  #28
asd74
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Originally Posted by Knee Seeking Scud View Post
Because offense is the only key aspect of hockey...

Cheechoo scored 56 goals and i wouldn't even trade Eriksson alone for him..
Are you seriously comparing Heatley to Cheechoo? You lost all credibility there. Offense means a lot if your a first liner. Only reason your against it is because you know it will never happen.

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08-17-2009, 04:20 PM
  #29
Barney Gumble
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Originally Posted by asd74 View Post
Two for 1 argument doesnt make sense because you don`t consider the other player that plays in the top 6 instead of the other. There is a reason you cant trade stajan and ponikorovski for crosby or ovechking. But they make 5 million less combined
You might want to use a better example since Stajan and Poni combined for 38 goals while Ovechkin had 56 goals last season.

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Old
08-17-2009, 04:22 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by asd74 View Post
1 player who scores 50 goals is better than 2 players that score 55 its not even close.
Last time I checked Heatley scored 39 goals last year.

Last time I checked Eriksson scored 36 and is only 24.

Dallas get's screwed in this horrible proposal "and it's not even close."

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Old
08-17-2009, 04:27 PM
  #31
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Track record counts for nothing these days?

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Old
08-17-2009, 04:39 PM
  #32
Alistar
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Originally Posted by Hobofish View Post
Track record counts for nothing these days?
it shouldn't when you're managing a team to be successful. Trading for / signing players based on reputation means that 90% of the time you are going to overpay. It's all about what players are going to do for you in the future, not what they did in the past.

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Old
08-17-2009, 05:04 PM
  #33
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This is awesome, this thread is like all the Sharks/Sens ones for the past month.

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Old
08-17-2009, 05:10 PM
  #34
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I LOVE LAMP!
The bears...They can smell the menstruation...

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Old
08-17-2009, 05:50 PM
  #35
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Dallas is more likely to trade Richards and his contract than they are to take on Heatley and his. It's that simple. And Dallas is not looking to trade Richards. So this is all a moot point. Yes, Eriksson had somewhat of a high shooting % last year, but he also played a sizable portion of the season without Richards, who he has developed some pretty good chemistry with. In my eyes a 40 goal campaign would have been a foregone conclusion if Richards had stayed healthy.

I don't get to see Heatley play enough lately to have a good read on his defensive game, but I imagine it's not half as bad as people make it sound. That said, Eriksson is a stud defensive forward in addition to his offense, which in my book puts his value above Heatley's, for the Stars. It won't be long before Eriksson's name is a perennial Selke candidate. And in all honesty I prefer more of a score by committee aproach anyways. The point about one player who scores 50 being worth more than two who score 50 combined is debatable. You lose that 50 goal scorer to injury then there it all goes, whereas with the two players if one gets injured the other guy is still there and can pick up some of the slack with more minutes, PP time, etc.

The Stars have a solid forward group with tons of potential. James Neal just scratched the surface last year. Brunnstrom takes a beating on these boards, but he showed a distinct learning curve in all aspects of his game last year, and he will continue to get better (he still scored 17 goals in just 55 games playing part of the year on the 4th line). Ott continues to get better every season, and I expect him to hit 20 goals this year, especially if he plays more than the 64 games he played last season.

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08-17-2009, 05:53 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by asd74 View Post
A player of heatleys caliber you make room for him
apparently the other 29 teams haven't gotten the memo

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Old
08-17-2009, 06:02 PM
  #37
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I wont lie... Dany Heatley is starting to sound like Tomas Kaberle. All the fans trying to trade him off to everyone...

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Old
08-17-2009, 06:28 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by asd74 View Post
Are you seriously comparing Heatley to Cheechoo? You lost all credibility there. Offense means a lot if your a first liner. Only reason your against it is because you know it will never happen.
I was pointing out another 50+ goal scorer that Dallas would not trade Eriksson for.

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Old
08-17-2009, 07:56 PM
  #39
asd74
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Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
You might want to use a better example since Stajan and Poni combined for 38 goals while Ovechkin had 56 goals last season.
Well I ment points. But crosby had less than 38 goals

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Old
08-17-2009, 08:05 PM
  #40
asd74
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Originally Posted by Knee Seeking Scud View Post
I was pointing out another 50+ goal scorer that Dallas would not trade Eriksson for.
Well Cheechoo has had better seasons than Eriksson(I wouldn't make that trade cheechoo could be done) Lupul had a similar season a few years ago as eriksson 27 27 i believe and there is a reason more had to be added to get pronger in anahiem.

I even like dallas wayyyyyy more than the sens. I understand your excited for him. Calling him a perrenial selke candidate is a little much though. One good season doesnt guarantee a career. Heatley however is as close to a guarantee as you get. He is like a 5 time allstar I believe and is always in the running for the rocket. Whether you personally wouldnt do it the value is a little slanted to dallas

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Old
08-17-2009, 08:21 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by asd74 View Post
Whether you personally wouldnt do it the value is a little slanted to dallas
No it's not. The world is not EA Sports. I know I've already said this today, but it obviously needs to be said again.

Value evaluates the entire team situation, not just the players. Eriksson and Ott are more valuable to Dallas than Dany Heatley. His contract prevents the Stars from re-signing significant players next summer when the majority of the roster is a free agent. He didn’t carry Ottawa to a Stanley Cup with players like Spezza and Alfredsson, and he won’t do it with less talented players in Dallas. The Stars have always won because they multiple good players as opposed to 1 or 2 star players. That trend is not going to change anytime soon.

This would be a ridiculous trade by Nieuwendyk. The goal of a hockey team is not individual hardware. So what Dany can score goals? He better learn to play goal, defense, and forward all at the same time if he comes to Dallas. They can't afford another bloated contract.

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Old
08-17-2009, 09:01 PM
  #42
asd74
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Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
No it's not. The world is not EA Sports. I know I've already said this today, but it obviously needs to be said again.

Value evaluates the entire team situation, not just the players. Eriksson and Ott are more valuable to Dallas than Dany Heatley. His contract prevents the Stars from re-signing significant players next summer when the majority of the roster is a free agent. He didnít carry Ottawa to a Stanley Cup with players like Spezza and Alfredsson, and he wonít do it with less talented players in Dallas. The Stars have always won because they multiple good players as opposed to 1 or 2 star players. That trend is not going to change anytime soon.

This would be a ridiculous trade by Nieuwendyk. The goal of a hockey team is not individual hardware. So what Dany can score goals? He better learn to play goal, defense, and forward all at the same time if he comes to Dallas. They can't afford another bloated contract.
He is not overpaid he is the 4th highest scorer since the lockout!!! He scores clutch goals has great playoffs. He would easily become your best player by a mile. Ottawa had goalie issues in the finals thats why they didnt win the cup. He isnt defensively horrible like your trying to peg him. EA sports what is that a generic insult cause I really did think that if EA sports says the trade is good then it must be.

Rk Player GP G A PTS PTS/G +/-
1 Joe Thornton 293 92 299 391 1.33 96
2 Alex Ovechkin 293 196 176 372 1.27 24
3 Sidney Crosby 263 119 243 362 1.38 33
4 Dany Heatley 282 162 171 333 1.18 86
5 Marc Savard 288 84 247 331 1.15 18
6 Pavel Datsyuk 284 105 224 329 1.16 126
7 Daniel Alfredsson 270 124 197 321 1.19 84
8 Vincent Lecavalier 293 149 172 321 1.10 -14
9 Jarome Iginla 282 143 171 314 1.11 47
10 Ilya Kovalchuk 290 167 144 311 1.07 -34
11 Jason Spezza 258 105 202 307 1.19 59
12 Marian Hossa 283 135 171 306 1.08 30
13 Martin St. Louis 294 117 177 294 1.00 -13
14 Jaromir Jagr 246 109 181 290 1.18 68
15 Henrik Zetterberg 260 132 156 288 1.11 96
16 Eric Staal 297 134 154 288 0.97 -11
17 Olli Jokinen 291 128 157 285 0.98 14
18 Henrik Sedin 296 51 227 278 0.94 42
19 Daniel Sedin 295 109 168 277 0.94 43
20 Evgeni Malkin 211 101 165 266 1.26 35

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Old
08-17-2009, 09:18 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by asd74 View Post
He is not overpaid he is the 4th highest scorer since the lockout!!!
And Ron Francis is the 4th highest scorer since the war. Maybe we should trade for him instead.

Unfortunately, the next four seasons we'll be playing are '09/'10, '10/'11, '11/'12 and '12/'13, not '05/'06, '06/'07, '07/'08 and '08/'09. Heatley is a very nice player. Superstar. Canada should take him to the Olympics. But he's expensive as hell, and there's no guarantee that his next four will be as good as his last four. Dallas has two guys in Neal and Benn who we're banking on doing what Heatley does about as well as Heatley's done it. I'll bet the farm that by 2012, James Neal will be doing a better impression of 50-goal Dany Heatley than Dany Heatley.

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Old
08-17-2009, 09:44 PM
  #44
asd74
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Originally Posted by cottonking View Post
And Ron Francis is the 4th highest scorer since the war. Maybe we should trade for him instead.

Unfortunately, the next four seasons we'll be playing are '09/'10, '10/'11, '11/'12 and '12/'13, not '05/'06, '06/'07, '07/'08 and '08/'09. Heatley is a very nice player. Superstar. Canada should take him to the Olympics. But he's expensive as hell, and there's no guarantee that his next four will be as good as his last four. Dallas has two guys in Neal and Benn who we're banking on doing what Heatley does about as well as Heatley's done it. I'll bet the farm that by 2012, James Neal will be doing a better impression of 50-goal Dany Heatley than Dany Heatley.
ahaha only on hf boards is a 28yr old washed up and close to retirement. I bet a 31 year old Heater will still be better than everyone on ur team. Neal and Benn together still wont be close to a 31 year old Heatley. 7.5 mil is actually below market value for a player of his calibre

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08-17-2009, 09:53 PM
  #45
Alistar
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Originally Posted by asd74 View Post
ahaha only on hf boards is a 28yr old washed up and close to retirement. I bet a 31 year old Heater will still be better than everyone on ur team. Neal and Benn together still wont be close to a 31 year old Heatley. 7.5 mil is actually below market value for a player of his calibre
The general trend for forwards is that their highest level of production comes when they are 23-27 years old. That's a fact, supported by research done on advanced statistics websites. Dany Heatley is now 28 and has seen his production level drop the last two seasons, which seems to indicate that he is on the decline.

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Old
08-17-2009, 09:58 PM
  #46
Caseman
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Dallas does not want Heatley at the price he is gonna cost. What's so hard to understand here?

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Old
08-17-2009, 10:37 PM
  #47
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Haha /thread

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Old
08-17-2009, 10:51 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by asd74 View Post
wow dany heatley one of the top 10 forwards in the nhl can't even get this on hfboards? As a leaf fan I'd be jumping for joy if ottawa ever accepted this. Penner cogliano and smid for heatley would make me very happy as well.
Loui Eriksson had a great season 36 goals and 63 points but his shooting percentage was abnormally high (20.2%). Hes a good young player but hes not even close to dany heatley and ott and a 2nd doesnt make up for it. Maybe add a 1st to go along with the second and ottawa thinks about it. Think the chris pronger trade and you got the kindof value heatleys worth.
Forget about it, you won't be able to bring logic and reason on HF. This place is a popularity contest where draft picks are worth more than actual NHL players, particualry since they don't take a lot of the cap...

Dany Heatley is really not popular actually. Once he settles in with his new team and start scoring goals like one of the best, his popularity (and value in HF boarders' eyes) will go up.

That is probably why the Sens should keep him until he fix his value by his play. Unless GMs don't think like HF fans? Who knows? I've been told Fans > GMs, so i don't have a clue anymore...

Quote:
Originally Posted by asd74 View Post
Rk Player GP G A PTS PTS/G +/-
1 Joe Thornton 293 92 299 391 1.33 96
2 Alex Ovechkin 293 196 176 372 1.27 24
3 Sidney Crosby 263 119 243 362 1.38 33
4 Dany Heatley 282 162 171 333 1.18 86
5 Marc Savard 288 84 247 331 1.15 18
6 Pavel Datsyuk 284 105 224 329 1.16 126
7 Daniel Alfredsson 270 124 197 321 1.19 84
8 Vincent Lecavalier 293 149 172 321 1.10 -14
9 Jarome Iginla 282 143 171 314 1.11 47
10 Ilya Kovalchuk 290 167 144 311 1.07 -34
11 Jason Spezza 258 105 202 307 1.19 59
12 Marian Hossa 283 135 171 306 1.08 30
13 Martin St. Louis 294 117 177 294 1.00 -13
14 Jaromir Jagr 246 109 181 290 1.18 68
15 Henrik Zetterberg 260 132 156 288 1.11 96
16 Eric Staal 297 134 154 288 0.97 -11
17 Olli Jokinen 291 128 157 285 0.98 14
18 Henrik Sedin 296 51 227 278 0.94 42
19 Daniel Sedin 295 109 168 277 0.94 43
20 Evgeni Malkin 211 101 165 266 1.26 35
Damn Heatley... Why do you quit on us? And look now, people see you like a salary dump...


Last edited by Xspyrit: 08-17-2009 at 10:57 PM.
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Old
08-17-2009, 11:54 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
I have a feeling someone will try to throw the Gomez trade in your face.

Preemptively, Gomez was not a bad teammate or hockey player. He just has a bad salary.

Heatley is apparently a bad teammate and not welcome in Ottawa. Plus he has a very large salary.

Despite the belief of many fans including myself, NY proved a massive, overpaid salary could be moved for a premium package. On the other hand, I'll believe it when I see it if Heatley gets a king ransom when he is both a problem child and comes with a massive cap hit.
With Gomez, I think the pitch with him was "talented but just doesn't fit here - take him for a premium package because he will definitely succeed there!"

But the biggest thing was he hadn't publicly asked to be traded and hadn't been very, very publicly shopped. The more a team knows you want to (and in this case, have to) get rid of somebody, the less they will give you in return for him.

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Old
08-18-2009, 03:06 AM
  #50
Bob Munden
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Originally Posted by MTLHabsAK46 View Post
I'd figure Dallas would want to use any type of cap space available to improve the D rather than put any more into another big contract at forward. I don't see why they'd give up a promising young goal scorer that was 3 shy of Heatley's total last year that makes less than 2M$.
This

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