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Maple Leafs and Rangers?

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Old
08-17-2009, 04:09 PM
  #26
Machinae
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeyfrk View Post

The Rangers won't dump Drury in the first place, and they especially won't for two below average defenseman. We don't want Finger and his $3.5 million contract. They'll fill their need for a 5/6/7 defenseman with somebody that's cheap and is capable (and not a reliability), they won't trade for two ~3 million guys while leaving a gaping hole in the center position.

Why would Toronto want Drury anyway?
Finger isn't a reliability. A healthy MVR is better than Roszival.

Toronto probably doesn't want Drury at all, but Burke/Wilson are American so...

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Old
08-17-2009, 04:11 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Hockeyfrk View Post
Kotalik on the first line is what's wrong with that. I'd take Drury and his contract over Van Ryn, Finger, + that top 6.
Right, because you guys are chalk full of wingers better than Kotalik (other than Prospal and Gaborik who are already on a line with him)

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Old
08-17-2009, 04:18 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Machinae View Post
Sure, throw those talented young d into the NHL whether they are ready or not and see what happens.

Drury is a 2nd line player making 7 mil. He is a salary dump first and an effective player after.

Jason Blake is widely believed to be overpaid. Last year he scored more points than Drury. He makes 3 million less.

Matt Stajan is homegrown, much younger, much cheaper, and scored at about the same pace as Drury. You wouldn't get him straight up.
yeah and they won't be rushed. MDZ is going back to london, Sanguinetti has already had a full year with the Pack and could be ready depending on camp. Gilroy supposedly is a lock to make the team which leaves only one other spot for a rookie. That spot also is likely to be filled before training camp by a veteran.

Drury's contract is bad, but he's the captain of the team, he kills penalties, he plays well on his own end, he wins face offs, and most importantly the guy wants to be a Ranger. He has more value to the Rangers than frickin Jeff Finger and Mike Van Ryn. The Rangers have one horrendous contract on defense and a less than desireable one in Rozy, they don't need a third ****** contract on defense in Jeff Finger.

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Old
08-17-2009, 04:19 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinae View Post
Finger isn't a reliability. A healthy MVR is better than Roszival.

Toronto probably doesn't want Drury at all, but Burke/Wilson are American so...
yeah maybe a healthy MVR is better than a post-surgery Rozsival. But when Rozy is healthy next season, he's better than MVR.

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08-17-2009, 04:31 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinae View Post
Finger isn't a reliability. A healthy MVR is better than Roszival.
A fully recovered Rozsival is better than any type of MVR.

First, I'll take the guy who has played 156 games played over the last two season over the guy who has played 47 games over the last two seasons. I'll also take the guy who has played 75+ games 6 times in his career compared to the guy who has played 75+ games only 3 times in his career. Michal Rozsival has played 555 games in 8 seasons compared to Van Ryn who has played 353 games in 8 seasons.

Second, I'll take the guy who has more consistently put up over 30 points compared to the guy who hasn't put up 30 points since 2005-2006.

Third, the Rangers need the guy who has 70 powerplay points compared to the guy who has 49 powerplay points.

But of course, it would be wise to suggest a healthy Van Ryn is better than Rozsival. He's only been healthy 3 times, and the two times that he put up 37 points and was healthy are less than two of Rozsival's 6 healthy seasons when he put up 38 and 40 points. Oh, and if we are talking about seasons of the past (*cough* Van Ryn's healthy seasons *cough*), how does Rozsival's 35+ best +/- season compare to Van Ryn's 15+ best +/- season?



Quote:
Toronto probably doesn't want Drury at all...
Then why propose a trade for Drury if Toronto doesn't want him at all?


Last edited by Thefalkon: 08-17-2009 at 05:04 PM.
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Old
08-17-2009, 04:46 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeyfrk View Post
A fully recovered Rozsival is better than any type of MVR.

First, I'll take the guy who has played 156 games played over the last two season over the guy who has played 47 games over the last two seasons. I'll also take the guy who has played 75+ games 6 times in his career compared to the guy who has played 75+ games only 3 times in his career. Michal Rozsival has played 555 games in 8 seasons compared to Van Ryn who has played 353 games in 8 seasons.

Second, I'll take the guy who has more consistently put up over 30 points compared to the guy who hasn't put up 30 points since 2005-2006.

Third, the Rangers need the guy who has 70 powerplay points compared to the guy who has 49 powerplay points.

But of course, it would be wise to suggest a healthy Van Ryn is better than Rozsival. He's only been healthy 3 times, and the two times that he put up 37 points and was healthy are less than two of Rozsival's 6 healthy seasons when he put up 38 and 40 points. Oh, and if we are talking about seasons of the past (*cough* Van Ryn's healthy seasons *cough*), how does Rozsival's 35+ best +/- season compared to Van Ryn's 15+ best +/- season?





Then why propose a trade for Drury if Toronto doesn't want him at all?
well done

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Old
08-17-2009, 04:53 PM
  #32
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Leafs take on a bigger contract than Finger's AND give up Van Ryn?!?

You've gotta look at this from an objective perspective.....both teams can afford to bury salary in the minors.... The leafs have no incentive to take on a bigger salary for a longer term. Finger at least can contribute at $3.5million and htere are usually ways to squeeze that in. There is no way the Leafs will become good with Drury at $7million.


Last edited by seanlinden: 08-17-2009 at 06:10 PM.
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Old
08-17-2009, 05:47 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
ugh...........once again the contract is why people think about dealing Drury

he is the Ranger captain, he has a NTC , is from NY and is not going anywhere

Finger?, really

I heard that Fletcher in his old age made a mistake...........heard the Agent balled and said Finger for 3.5 total and Fletcher said suuuuuuuuuuure 3.5 a yr,haha...............I mean really that contract is so bad
when your a rangers fan you may want to take a step back before talking about bad contracts. Yeah Fingers is bad. The difference is Drury's is brutal. But I guess you have the bargain that is Redden who nearly produced as much as Finger this year.

Finger 3.5 million 66gp 23pts
Stajan 1.75 million 76gp 55pts

Drury 7.05 million 81gp 56pts
Redden 6.5 million 81gp 26pts

So for a grand total of 4 more points you guys paid an extra 8.3 million more and that's only cap hit and not taking into account the front loading and actual salary involved. But yeah feel free to make fun of Fingers contract.

As for the OP no thanks.

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Old
08-17-2009, 05:56 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by hockynight View Post
true but he is a clutch player and his 22 g 34 a 56 p would place him 3rd on the leafs in goals and points
Yeah and the two players ahead of him make a combined salary less then his by almost a million. Had we not traded Antro he would have been 4th. 7 million for 22 goals is a joke. This so called clutch player had one goal and no assists in the playoffs and was a -5.

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Old
08-17-2009, 07:44 PM
  #35
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Leafs say no. We need a top line forward, not a great second liner like Drury, specially at his salary.

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Old
08-17-2009, 07:57 PM
  #36
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It has been said time and again that we have 2 D that can play a forward position and don't necessarily have to move anyone. We let our players fight for position on the depth chart and then see where we stand 25 games in.
It is going to take a team that wants/needs our defence for us to make a trade. I don't see Burke moving another player until after training camp or pre-season.
If someone can offer us a package that includes either picks/prospects for one of our fringe players than by all means, but don't say that the defence is bad. Outside of our top 4 we have four other D that can be on any teams opening night roster.
Seems like people forget that a pool of prospects is a good thing to have for more than one reason. It not only allows you to develop some talent but also to have trade bait for when you need a player to fill out a roster for a playoff or cup run.
With that said I still think that our best trading partners are CBJ.

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Old
08-17-2009, 08:03 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dredeye View Post
Yeah and the two players ahead of him make a combined salary less then his by almost a million. Had we not traded Antro he would have been 4th. 7 million for 22 goals is a joke. This so called clutch player had one goal and no assists in the playoffs and was a -5.
sure, i do understand that he is very over payed but he prob needs a new team to play for he played good for the Sabres, so y not the leafs, he will never be as good as his contract wanteed but he can put up 70-75 points if given the chance , you forget he played well for col when they won the cup in the playoffs sure he didnt this year, he had 11 g and 5 a in 23 games for the cup win, he can produce in the playoffs he just needs a chance

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Old
08-17-2009, 08:26 PM
  #38
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I still think the best thing is to not have Drury as our 1st line center when Grabovski or Stajan can put up similar numbers for far less.

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Old
08-17-2009, 08:49 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinae View Post
I see some posts saying that after all the moves at forward, NYR still has spots on Defense to fill. So, I'll take a stab at something.

To Toronto:
Chris Drury (7.050)

To New York:
Jeff Finger (3.5)
Mike Van Ryn (2.93)

Just throwing that out there. I'm aware of New York's lack of center depth and Toronto's abundance of centers, so adjusting may need to be made, but that's the general premise of it.

Let's hear some thoughts, and go easy on each other people
this is easy, the leafs pass. why again would we trade one overpaid player for an even more overpaid player? And Van Ryn's salary is actually not bad for a player of his caliber.

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08-17-2009, 08:53 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by hockynight View Post
sure, i do understand that he is very over payed but he prob needs a new team to play for he played good for the Sabres, so y not the leafs, he will never be as good as his contract wanteed but he can put up 70-75 points if given the chance , you forget he played well for col when they won the cup in the playoffs sure he didnt this year, he had 11 g and 5 a in 23 games for the cup win, he can produce in the playoffs he just needs a chance
How exactly do you expect him to get 70-75 pts in a season when he's never once done it in his career? Because the leafs have such great finishing wingers? He was paid for the two seasons he had in Buffalo and since getting his pay day hasn't produced the way he did there. He's 32 now so I don't see him getting better. He is what he is a good 2nd line center and a bad first line center. He's paid twice what he's worth so there is zero need for the leafs to take that on. We also are far far away from being a cup contender so regardless of what he did in Colorado it won't mean much now for the leafs. He also had that playoff season 8 years ago when he was 24. Again no thanks we have enough overpaid guys as it is.

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Old
08-17-2009, 08:56 PM
  #41
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How exactly do you expect him to get 70-75 pts in a season when he's never once done it in his career? Because the leafs have such great finishing wingers? He was paid for the two seasons he had in Buffalo and since getting his pay day hasn't produced the way he did there. He's 32 now so I don't see him getting better. He is what he is a good 2nd line center and a bad first line center. He's paid twice what he's worth so there is zero need for the leafs to take that on. We also are far far away from being a cup contender so regardless of what he did in Colorado it won't mean much now for the leafs. He also had that playoff season 8 years ago when he was 24. Again no thanks we have enough overpaid guys as it is.
well said man.

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Old
08-17-2009, 09:03 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinae View Post
Finger isn't a reliability. A healthy MVR is better than Roszival.

Toronto probably doesn't want Drury at all, but Burke/Wilson are American so...
LMMFAO.

Seriously.

The Rangers laugh at these proposals, anyway.

Two garbage d-men and whatever else for a good 2nd line center and our captain? No chance.

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Old
08-17-2009, 09:05 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
LMMFAO.

Seriously.

The Rangers laugh at these proposals, anyway.

Two garbage d-men and whatever else for a good 2nd line center and our captain? No chance.
replace good with overpaid and it might make more sense.

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08-17-2009, 09:08 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by thepublichairs View Post
replace good with overpaid and it might make more sense.
He's both. He's good and overpaid. If you're insinuating that Drury is not good, I don't know what to tell you.

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08-17-2009, 09:12 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
He's both. He's good and overpaid. If you're insinuating that Drury is not good, I don't know what to tell you.
he is good but his salary reduces his value imo.

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08-17-2009, 09:24 PM
  #46
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he is good but his salary reduces his value imo.
I never claimed it doesn't. But we aren't moving him for two bum d-men and a bum forward. I would much rather keep my overpaid but good center than trade for overpaid but not as good d-men that won't displace anyone in our top 4.

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08-17-2009, 09:31 PM
  #47
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I never claimed it doesn't. But we aren't moving him for two bum d-men and a bum forward. I would much rather keep my overpaid but good center than trade for overpaid but not as good d-men that won't displace anyone in our top 4.
what bum forward are you talkin about again? drury?

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08-17-2009, 09:32 PM
  #48
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what bum forward are you talkin about again? drury?
Obviously Wayne Primeau, since his name was bandied around before in this thread.

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Old
08-17-2009, 09:38 PM
  #49
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switch dru for redden
Toronto has way too many dmen!

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08-17-2009, 09:45 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinae View Post
I see some posts saying that after all the moves at forward, NYR still has spots on Defense to fill. So, I'll take a stab at something.

To Toronto:
Chris Drury (7.050)

To New York:
Jeff Finger (3.5)
Mike Van Ryn (2.93)

Just throwing that out there. I'm aware of New York's lack of center depth and Toronto's abundance of centers, so adjusting may need to be made, but that's the general premise of it.

Let's hear some thoughts, and go easy on each other people
Garbage, we're not trading our 2nd line center and captain for that pile of crap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinae View Post
Finger isn't a reliability. A healthy MVR is better than Roszival.

Toronto probably doesn't want Drury at all, but Burke/Wilson are American so...
Whatever you're smoking, I want some of it.

Van Ryn couldn't hold Rozsival's jockstrap on his best day. Go look at the stats and actually watch both of them play before you make a ridiculous claim like that.

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Originally Posted by dredeye View Post
when your a rangers fan you may want to take a step back before talking about bad contracts. Yeah Fingers is bad. The difference is Drury's is brutal. But I guess you have the bargain that is Redden who nearly produced as much as Finger this year.

Finger 3.5 million 66gp 23pts
Stajan 1.75 million 76gp 55pts

Drury 7.05 million 81gp 56pts
Redden 6.5 million 81gp 26pts

So for a grand total of 4 more points you guys paid an extra 8.3 million more and that's only cap hit and not taking into account the front loading and actual salary involved. But yeah feel free to make fun of Fingers contract.

As for the OP no thanks.
Ok, both of these two players were tremendously overpaid as UFA's last summer. The difference between the two is that Redden has the body of work that would at least merit any thought process as to why he got that much. Redden was at one point an excellent top-pairing defenseman, and was paid that in the hopes that he can regain that form. It looked like it was starting to happen somewhat under Tortarella.

Finger was never near Redden's level at his prime, and never will be. Finger is a bottom pairing defenseman who blocks shots and hits. Players like him are a dime a dozen and don't belong making that much money. Your idiot gm gave an unproven player a terrible contract, and is stuck with it. At least Redden can still play at somewhere close to the level of what he's being paid. I'm not saying he will regain his form, but it's at least a possibility.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
LMMFAO.

Seriously.

The Rangers laugh at these proposals, anyway.

Two garbage d-men and whatever else for a good 2nd line center and our captain? No chance.
Yeah, I think people need to start thinking before they make these dumb proposals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thepublichairs View Post
he is good but his salary reduces his value imo.
So? We're still not trading him for crap. No reason to, he's got 3 years left on his contract, this year included. If anything, he'll get bought out or traded down the line if a replacement that can fit the bill is found.


Last edited by The Amity Affliction: 08-17-2009 at 09:49 PM. Reason: Forgot responses to last two quotes.
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