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Maple Leafs and Rangers?

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Old
08-17-2009, 10:02 PM
  #51
syc
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Originally Posted by Coldshot View Post

Van Ryn couldn't hold Rozsival's jockstrap on his best day.
MVR looked great last year until he got hurt. Have you ever seen him play?

Anyways no chance the Leafs take this deal. Sather pulled a fast one on Gainey but Burke won't take on another dumb Rangers contract. Seven million will net a much much better player then Chris freaking Drury.

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08-17-2009, 10:11 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by thepublichairs View Post
he is good but his salary reduces his value imo.
Salary only affects value in the off-season.

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Old
08-17-2009, 10:14 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
He's both. He's good and overpaid. If you're insinuating that Drury is not good, I don't know what to tell you.
What in Drury's carear made him a 7 million dollar man? A 69 point season? Cause if so than Stajan or Grabovski are at least 5 million a peice.
I would never want Drury's contract on my team. It is embarassing and sets a bad precident for overpayment.
If he can be both overpaid and good what makes Finger such a bad contract. He is a hard working D who can put up points. He eats up minutes and can easily be in a teams top 4. He is not a top pairing player but can fill in that role when there are injuries.
Not saying its a wonderful contract, but as a wise man once said, " everyones got a price." ( insert maniacal laugh )

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08-17-2009, 10:20 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by kccovey View Post
What in Drury's carear made him a 7 million dollar man? A 69 point season? Cause if so than Stajan or Grabovski are at least 5 million a peice.
I would never want Drury's contract on my team. It is embarassing and sets a bad precident for overpayment.
If he can be both overpaid and good what makes Finger such a bad contract. He is a hard working D who can put up points. He eats up minutes and can easily be in a teams top 4. He is not a top pairing player but can fill in that role when there are injuries.
Not saying its a wonderful contract, but as a wise man once said, " everyones got a price." ( insert maniacal laugh )
What is so hard to understand that a player being overpaid doesn't make him a bad player? It means he has a bad contract.

I'd take Drury on my team at $7m over Finger on my team at $3.5m any day of the week. It doesn't mean that I think Drury has a good contract. It doesn't mean I think Finger is a bad player. It means that if I'm forced between a choice of the two, I'll take Drury.

And to rephrase my last post: come training camp, why should we give a flying $%#@ what a player makes?

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Old
08-17-2009, 10:22 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by kccovey View Post
What in Drury's carear made him a 7 million dollar man? A 69 point season?
Hey, since when has hockey become baseball. The game of hockey is completely unrelated to baseball when you talk about being statistics driven. You don't sign a guy to a $7 million deal just by taking a quick glance at his statistics on hockeydb or yahoo. There is more to Drury than the points that he puts up. He can be clutch and he's a leader. It is the nature of free agency where the top tier free agents get overpaid (Campbell, Gaborik, Briere, Hossa), and Sather tends to give out those ridiculous contracts. Obviously he isn't a "7 million dollar man" but he is a 5.5 to 6 million dollar man. Whether you choose to believe it or not, he is a leader. I want you to try to count the amount of good leaders in the NHL. Traits like that make you a 6 million dollar man. You can't make a guy a leader, that is why you sign a guy like Drury.

To sidetrack a little, just because he has a bad contract doesn't mean he is a bad player, it makes him overpaid. How can you blame him for signing that kind of deal to be the captain of the team you grew up a fan of? Would you turn down such a big contract? Of course not, his contract doesn't hurt how good of a player he is. It just hurts his value a little in trade talks (which should never occur because of his NMC).


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Old
08-17-2009, 11:04 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Coldshot View Post
Ok, both of these two players were tremendously overpaid as UFA's last summer. The difference between the two is that Redden has the body of work that would at least merit any thought process as to why he got that much. Redden was at one point an excellent top-pairing defenseman, and was paid that in the hopes that he can regain that form. It looked like it was starting to happen somewhat under Tortarella.

Finger was never near Redden's level at his prime, and never will be. Finger is a bottom pairing defenseman who blocks shots and hits. Players like him are a dime a dozen and don't belong making that much money. Your idiot gm gave an unproven player a terrible contract, and is stuck with it. At least Redden can still play at somewhere close to the level of what he's being paid. I'm not saying he will regain his form, but it's at least a possibility.
.
Wow talk about delusion. How exactly can Redden still play at somewhere near the level of what he's being paid? When exactly did he show that? He was bad in his last two seasons with the Sens and his first with the Rangers. You are right that Finger hits and blocks shots he also outscored your offensive dman last year and almost completely outproduced him points wise all while playing less games. I'll break it down nicely for you so you can see how far off you are on that.

Finger 66gp 6g 17a 23pts atoi 20:29 136 hits 158 blocked shots

Redden 81gp 3g 23a 26pts atoi 22:20 99 hits 98 blocked shots

So what exactly does Redden bring to the table that Finger doesn't for the extra 3 million a season? He plays more a night and played 15 more games yet managed 3 more points. Wow what a deal. Even Kaberle having his worst season and only playing 57 games outproduced Redden. Kaberle has outproduced Redden in all but two seasons and even he makes 2.25 million less then Redden. Redden has never in his career been worth that kind of money.

Finger will never be the player Redden use to be. The big factor in this is that neither will Redden.

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Old
08-17-2009, 11:06 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
What is so hard to understand that a player being overpaid doesn't make him a bad player? It means he has a bad contract.

I'd take Drury on my team at $7m over Finger on my team at $3.5m any day of the week. It doesn't mean that I think Drury has a good contract. It doesn't mean I think Finger is a bad player. It means that if I'm forced between a choice of the two, I'll take Drury.

And to rephrase my last post: come training camp, why should we give a flying $%#@ what a player makes?
That's great because I'd prefer Finger at 3.5 then Drury at 7+ so looks like we both have what we'd prefer.

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Old
08-17-2009, 11:14 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
What is so hard to understand that a player being overpaid doesn't make him a bad player? It means he has a bad contract.

I'd take Drury on my team at $7m over Finger on my team at $3.5m any day of the week. It doesn't mean that I think Drury has a good contract. It doesn't mean I think Finger is a bad player. It means that if I'm forced between a choice of the two, I'll take Drury.

And to rephrase my last post: come training camp, why should we give a flying $%#@ what a player makes?
Really?

I would rather take Finger at 3.5 and then sign a 2nd line center for 3 mill. I get two players for 6.5 instead of one at 7.

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Old
08-17-2009, 11:16 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by LIMITING REAGENT View Post
Really?

I would rather take Finger at 3.5 and then sign a 2nd line center for 3 mill. I get two players for 6.5 instead of one at 7.
What legit 2nd line centers are making 3 mil? Please enlighten me.

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Old
08-17-2009, 11:23 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by GongShowHockeyNYR View Post
What legit 2nd line centers are making 3 mil? Please enlighten me.
Mikhail Grabovski
Brooks Laich
Saku Koivu (0.25 more)
Bolland (0.335 more)
Filpulla

Those are some 2nd C's making near 3m. Hope you are enlightened.

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Old
08-18-2009, 12:12 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by GongShowHockeyNYR View Post
What legit 2nd line centers are making 3 mil? Please enlighten me.
The better question is what 2nd line center aside from Drury makes 7 million+

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Old
08-18-2009, 12:17 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by LIMITING REAGENT View Post
Mikhail Grabovski
Brooks Laich
Saku Koivu (0.25 more)
Bolland (0.335 more)
Filpulla

Those are some 2nd C's making near 3m. Hope you are enlightened.
So 4 RFA's and a player on the decline that took a pay cut to play with Teemu. Thanks for showing me!

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Old
08-18-2009, 01:21 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by GongShowHockeyNYR View Post
So 4 RFA's and a player on the decline that took a pay cut to play with Teemu. Thanks for showing me!
Phil Kessel is a RFA, sure as hell don't see him signing for pocket change. Grabo and Bolland could have asked for a trade if they didn't get what they wanted.

Please feel free to answer dredeye's question.

The original question was who to take, Finger at 3.5, or Drury at 7. Let's hear your opinion that instead of me listing players that signed for less than 3 mill.

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Old
08-18-2009, 02:48 AM
  #64
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MVR looked great last year until he got hurt. Have you ever seen him play?
Yeah, I have, and I've probably seen a lot more of him than you have, having center ice for the past 7 or so years, and access to out of market games before that. Van Ryn is nowhere close to Rozsival's level when Rozsival is healthy. Van Ryn gets manhandled by bigger and more physical forwards, and he isn't great one-on-one. Van Ryn is a 3rd pairing, borderline 2nd pairing puck moving defenseman who never lived up to his potential. Players like him are a dime a dozen.

Quote:
Anyways no chance the Leafs take this deal. Sather pulled a fast one on Gainey but Burke won't take on another dumb Rangers contract. Seven million will net a much much better player then Chris freaking Drury.
Good, you can keep that garbage. I'd much rather have "Chris freaking Drury" than a couple of two-bit hacks who have never won anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dredeye View Post
Wow talk about delusion. How exactly can Redden still play at somewhere near the level of what he's being paid? When exactly did he show that? He was bad in his last two seasons with the Sens and his first with the Rangers. You are right that Finger hits and blocks shots he also outscored your offensive dman last year and almost completely outproduced him points wise all while playing less games. I'll break it down nicely for you so you can see how far off you are on that.
The Ranger power play was horrible last year because they had no shooters. If Finger couldn't outscore Redden, then he might as well just stop trying to score. Redden, just like the Senators entire team, has fallen down a bit since 06. It's pretty easy to how valuable Chara was as everyone on that defense has had to step up big time since. Redden can only do so much. Finger is a 3rd pairing defenseman who doesn't play against top-forwards like Redden does. Finger can put up those stats playing 20 meaningless minutes for a bottom-feeder like Toronto as a big fish in a small pond for all I care, I'll take Redden playing close to his best hockey for 22+ minutes a game. He was adjusting to NY last year, and looked a HELL OF A LOT BETTER overall when Tortarella took over. Redden can come back to form, and even if he doesn't get fully back to it, he's still a more valuable commodity than Finger, despite his overbloated contract.

Finger is nothing more than an overpaid 3rd pairing banger who's probably going to see his ice time decrease with the acquisitions of Komisarek and Beauchemin.

Quote:
Finger 66gp 6g 17a 23pts atoi 20:29 136 hits 158 blocked shots

Redden 81gp 3g 23a 26pts atoi 22:20 99 hits 98 blocked shots
I doubt Finger's points and ATOI are nearly that high this year. Good luck with him making nearly 4 million to rot on the 3rd pairing, and these Toronto homers talk about teams handing out bad contracts LOL.

Quote:
So what exactly does Redden bring to the table that Finger doesn't for the extra 3 million a season? He plays more a night and played 15 more games yet managed 3 more points. Wow what a deal. Even Kaberle having his worst season and only playing 57 games outproduced Redden. Kaberle has outproduced Redden in all but two seasons and even he makes 2.25 million less then Redden. Redden has never in his career been worth that kind of money.
Oh here we go, how did I know that the Leaf fan couldn't go a conversation without mentioning Tomas "Should Have Won The Norris Because He's Better Than Bobby Orr" Kaberle? Three words kiddo, get over it.

Kaberle is not this great defenseman that you crack him out to be, and Redden at his best was a definite comparable to Kaberle. In fact, Redden of 2006 vs Kaberle of 2006, I take Redden in a heartbeat. At least he won't get manhandled by bigger forwards like Kaberle would. Kaberle took a hometown discount and didn't hit UFA status. So is that the Rangers' fault now? Absolutely not. He decided he didn't care that much, and took a discount. He probably could have gotten 5-6 mill had he hit free agency. But he was also signed back in what, 06? Redden got his deal in 09, two completely different markets. Redden was getting paid for everything he done in his prior deal, of course he's going to mention the near Norris Caliber season he had in 06 as a sticking point in contract negotiations. Do I think Redden should be paid what he's getting? Absolutely not, but I do see why he could have asked for it. He's played against top pairings night after night. He's put up points. He's went to the cup finals. When you get paid for a contract, even if you have some bad seasons, you get paid for your entire of body of work during the previous contract. He was a top-5 nominee for the Norris once. Redden at least had some sticking points as to why he should have been paid. Ignore them all you want, but agents and general managers don't.

Anyway, this is an argument about Redden and Finger, not Redden and Kaberle, go wash Kaberle's jockstrap or something. All you Toronto fans do is worship this guy like he's the 2nd coming of Bobby Orr or Ray Bourque.

Quote:
Finger will never be the player Redden use to be. The big factor in this is that neither will Redden.
Redden at least has a chance to play at the level that Finger will never be able to claim that he played at.

Facts are facts, and whether you like the odds or not, Redden wins this one by a landslide. Your moron gm overpaid a guy who had no resume to work with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dredeye View Post
That's great because I'd prefer Finger at 3.5 then Drury at 7+ so looks like we both have what we'd prefer.
Keep your garbage, I'll keep the overpaid 2nd line center that can at least contribute in more than just blocked shots and hits.

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Old
08-18-2009, 02:52 AM
  #65
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lol people are so touchy about these trades. it's august, we're just killing time. If you don't think it's fair value for your team, then state your reasons. But to take them personally is like wow...

I agree though, I don't think either team does this trade.

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Old
08-18-2009, 03:42 AM
  #66
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Drury is worthless with that contract. And Bob Gainey doesn't have enough cap room to trade for him

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Old
08-18-2009, 03:46 AM
  #67
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Finger isn't nearly as bad as people make him out to be. He's a nice defensive defenseman.

Yeah he's overpaid but people always let that cloud their judgement on the actual play on the ice.

The nice advantage you have with Finger over Redden and Drury is Finger can be sent down and you can have his salary come off your cap.

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08-18-2009, 04:53 AM
  #68
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Instead of arguing who has the worst salary in the league how about admitting the ludicrous that is the Leafs dumping two mediocre defenseman for NYR's team captain.

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08-18-2009, 05:43 AM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
ugh...........once again the contract is why people think about dealing Drury

he is the Ranger captain, he has a NTC , is from NY and is not going anywhere

Finger?, really

I heard that Fletcher in his old age made a mistake...........heard the Agent balled and said Finger for 3.5 total and Fletcher said suuuuuuuuuuure 3.5 a yr,haha...............I mean really that contract is so bad
No, no it really isn't

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Old
08-18-2009, 06:07 AM
  #70
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Finger was never near Redden's level at his prime, and never will be. Finger is a bottom pairing defenseman who blocks shots and hits. Players like him are a dime a dozen and don't belong making that much money. Your idiot gm gave an unproven player a terrible contract, and is stuck with it. At least Redden can still play at somewhere close to the level of what he's being paid. I'm not saying he will regain his form, but it's at least a possibility.
Think about what you're saying for a second. Do you really think Burke signed Finger? And yes, I'd take Finger over Redden any day of the week. I'd also take MVR, Roszival, and a bag of pucks over Redden any day of the week.

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Old
08-18-2009, 06:13 AM
  #71
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Instead of arguing who has the worst salary in the league how about admitting the ludicrous that is the Leafs dumping two mediocre defenseman for NYR's team captain.
Someone gets it!

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Old
08-18-2009, 06:27 AM
  #72
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Sure, throw those talented young d into the NHL whether they are ready or not and see what happens.

Drury is a 2nd line player making 7 mil. He is a salary dump first and an effective player after.

Jason Blake is widely believed to be overpaid. Last year he scored more points than Drury. He makes 3 million less.

Matt Stajan is homegrown, much younger, much cheaper, and scored at about the same pace as Drury. You wouldn't get him straight up.
Man, you REALLY undervalue The Captains intangibles! What's 3 million? I'd gladly pay more for all the things he brings to the table.

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Old
08-18-2009, 06:46 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by LIMITING REAGENT View Post
The original question was who to take, Finger at 3.5, or Drury at 7. Let's hear your opinion that instead of me listing players that signed for less than 3 mill.
I'll take Drury at 7 over Finger at half the price any day of the week. An overpaid contract is a lot more manageable than you think. Let's take a look at the Philadelphia Flyers for a second. Same exact off-season, they signed Briere at 500K less than Drury. Granted, Briere always produces more than drury but both are bad contracts, and Philly has constructed a nice team with Briere's contract.

I don't know if you've heard of a thing called leadership, but Drury has it and Finger doesn't.

Drury at 7 >> Finger at 3.5

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Old
08-18-2009, 07:05 AM
  #74
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I see some posts saying that after all the moves at forward, NYR still has spots on Defense to fill. So, I'll take a stab at something.

To Toronto:
Chris Drury (7.050)

To New York:
Jeff Finger (3.5)
Mike Van Ryn (2.93)

Just throwing that out there. I'm aware of New York's lack of center depth and Toronto's abundance of centers, so adjusting may need to be made, but that's the general premise of it.

Let's hear some thoughts, and go easy on each other people
Leaf fans strike again. This one's brutal

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Old
08-18-2009, 07:16 AM
  #75
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The idea that the Rangers would be throwing their young d-men to the wolves is a little bit off. We're talking two rookies out of a 7 d-man corps and considering one of them will probably be Gilroy who is already 25. The other candidates include two other 25 year olds--Potter, Heikkinen (recently signed from the Finnish elite league)--there is also Mike Sauer, Sanguinetti and Del Zotto with McDonagh, Valentenko, Kundratek, Williams in the pipeline and that many players means you have to move some up the ladder and maybe even move some out. It's a glut and they won't progress if you're too timid and keep them developing forever.

Back to Drury and his NMC. Get him to waive it and I'd be fine with moving him. Again a good player but his contract is just ridiculous. Rangers could concievably bury Finger in the AHL if they decided they didn't like him--and at that point the Rangers have not only a badly thought out contract off the books but some cap room to play with.

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