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Are we better then last year... ?

View Poll Results: Will the Rangers be better then last year ?
Yes 146 89.57%
No 17 10.43%
Voters: 163. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
08-19-2009, 12:18 PM
  #26
ThirdEye
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Wow, I can't believe how lopsided the poll is.

I think the offense is a little better... maybe good for 20 or 30 more goals.

The defense, however, is still a concern. I do think that signing Bouillon will make up for losing Mara though. Until that happens though, our defense is pretty shallow and unimpressive.

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Old
08-19-2009, 12:22 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdEye View Post
Wow, I can't believe how lopsided the poll is.

I think the offense is a little better... maybe good for 20 or 30 more goals.

The defense, however, is still a concern. I do think that signing Bouillon will make up for losing Mara though. Until that happens though, our defense is pretty shallow and unimpressive.
20-30 more goals would could have equaled out to 5-6 more wins from last season(and thats on the lower side). Which would have given us 10-12 more points in the standing bumping us up to 4th in the East.

So 20-30 more goals is huge.

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Old
08-19-2009, 12:22 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
I'd say we're about the same. O is slightly upgraded...yes we got Gabby/Higgins/Kotalik/Prospal, but we lost Gomez/Antro/Z/Naslund so it's far from a huge improvement. D has to be considered a slight step back until we see what the kids can do.
Not sure it's fair to include Antropov sicne he was here from deadline until end of PO's.

If you are going to make a fair comparison, then he has to be dropped from the equation or you have to add Avery to the added group as we didn't have him for a full season either.

We lost Gomer/Z/Nazzy
We add Gabby/Higgins/Kotalik/Prospal

IMHO I think that that is a very deep improvement.

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Old
08-19-2009, 12:31 PM
  #29
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I don't have a clue.

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Old
08-19-2009, 12:36 PM
  #30
ThirdEye
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYLine24 View Post
20-30 more goals would could have equaled out to 5-6 more wins from last season(and thats on the lower side). Which would have given us 10-12 more points in the standing bumping us up to 4th in the East.

So 20-30 more goals is huge.
True, but if you take into account that the defense got worse, then the GA will go up as well.

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Old
08-19-2009, 12:42 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by ThirdEye View Post
True, but if you take into account that the defense got worse, then the GA will go up as well.
Well, I wouldn't assume that our defense is going to be as good but it could be just as good or better. Without the puck in our zone, other teams are going to have less strong opportunities. Missing Mara and Morris hurts but Rozi and Redden should be better. Girardi and Staal are both young enough to still be improving and whoever fills out the roster will probably have high upside. I'd say that we're undoubtedly going to let up more scoring than last year but that our defense is still going to be pretty good. Our defensive regressions are more than made up by our offensive improvements.

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Old
08-19-2009, 12:42 PM
  #32
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Voted NO, cause we are about the same... If team needs to figure out EVERYTHING from the camp, they will figure out NOTHING. Too many holes, same as last year, only some are larger. Assuming that someone will play better is not a valid planning for a management. Only fans may do that.

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Old
08-19-2009, 12:46 PM
  #33
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i voted yes, but thats just my heart speaking...honestly i think were marginally better if at all.

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Old
08-19-2009, 12:54 PM
  #34
pld459666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdEye View Post
True, but if you take into account that the defense got worse, then the GA will go up as well.
I'm not sure that the defence got that much worse.

More inexperienced? Without a doubt

Worse? I like Mara, but a defensive specialist he wasn't. Neither was Morris for that matter.

I think the difference will be negligable at worst.

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Old
08-19-2009, 12:59 PM
  #35
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I think our seconday scoring is great this year. I think our primary scoring is the problem- and by that I mean that Gaborik IS our primary scoring. No one else can be considered primary scoring except maybe prospal if he has an "on" year...

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Old
08-19-2009, 01:01 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
I'm not sure that the defence got that much worse.

More inexperienced? Without a doubt

Worse? I like Mara, but a defensive specialist he wasn't. Neither was Morris for that matter.

I think the difference will be negligable at worst.
Not just more inexperienced though... much more inexperienced as it is right now. Mara and Morris have what, like 15+ seasons in the NHL between the two of them? Both of them are somewhat overrated, but you can't expect to rookies to come up and replace them.

We also lost two important PK'ers in Betts and Korpikoski. I believe we have players to replace them though

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Old
08-19-2009, 01:06 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYLine24 View Post
20-30 more goals would could have equaled out to 5-6 more wins from last season(and thats on the lower side). Which would have given us 10-12 more points in the standing bumping us up to 4th in the East.

So 20-30 more goals is huge.
How many one goal games did we loose last season ? Sitting here thinking about it, it seems like every game was a one goal loss. 20 - 30 goals extra could have won us the divison.

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Old
08-19-2009, 01:09 PM
  #38
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its a for sure yes. Gaborik is a true sniper. that was the big problem last year. Plus their are more proven 20 goal + scorers plus some exiting young rooks in Anisimov and Lisin. Plus a young group of Dmen they are going to start filtering in starting this year

That coupled with Henrik still here and Torts as coach should result in a better team

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Old
08-19-2009, 01:09 PM
  #39
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They may be better, but not much. It's still a very mediocre team in front of a star goaltender.

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Old
08-19-2009, 01:25 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
This team, as it stands today, is 100% better equipped to advance in the PO's than the team that got bounced last year.
That's great news but bad news for Pitt, Wash, Bos, NJ and Philly and everyone else. Yet, they will all probably show up to face this totally loaded lineup.

With Gaborik, this 1st line is iffy at best. If he goes down, it's all a house of cards, in my opinion.

I understand this love affair with Gaborik that is going on, the season hasn't started after all, but in comparison to Jagr he is a very distant 2nd in both ability and results, even if he is on the ice and healthy and I don't see anything resembling a Nylander on this squad either.

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Old
08-19-2009, 01:52 PM
  #41
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I fully agree with your assessment, Chosen. If Gaborik goes down, this team has nothing under Tortarella, although I think Renney would have a better shot. With Gaborik, it's a different story, but this team would still lack a #1 centerman, and if they make their #2 and #3 centermen, then they lack a third line centerman. Add that to the other changes, including going from two capable vets as your third pairing defensemen, each of whom logged on capable minutes.

I think I mentioned this before that I think it's so difficult to analyze these things. There are so many unknowns, including how the coach is going to coach - line combos, defense pairings, in-game strategies, etc. Further, I don't think people fully analyze the competition and just look at the Rangers, on paper, what they would look like without regards to actually playing. And I think some teams in the Eastern Conference have improved, some may rebound from bad seasons, and that could hurt the Rangers' performance.

I think nyr2k2 said it best - and I agree 100% - I had this team in the 6-10 range last year; I have this team in the 6-10 range also. This team had uncertainty going into last season, and I think there's every bit as much uncertainty going into this season.

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Old
08-19-2009, 02:10 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
That's great news but bad news for Pitt, Wash, Bos, NJ and Philly and everyone else. Yet, they will all probably show up to face this totally loaded lineup.

With Gaborik, this 1st line is iffy at best. If he goes down, it's all a house of cards, in my opinion.

I understand this love affair with Gaborik that is going on, the season hasn't started after all, but in comparison to Jagr he is a very distant 2nd in both ability and results, even if he is on the ice and healthy and I don't see anything resembling a Nylander on this squad either.
It's not just Gabby.

I believe that the goal scoring depth that we have now is more reliable than what we had last year or the year before.

Gabby is one component of that. Not the end all be all.

As for the comparison to Jagr, you are 100% correct, as well as the Nylander statement, although, the Nylander we saw with Jagr never appeared in any other uniform before he got here or after he left so I look at that as a total reliance on his ability to play to Jagr's strengths.

I'm looking at this team beyond Gabby as much I looked at how shallow that Jagr/Nylander led Rangers team and they couldn't be more different in that we are no longer top heavy nor are we completely reliant on one line to produce offense which was our major problem 2-3 years ago.

Gabby is a small part of the reason for my optimisim this year coming.

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Old
08-19-2009, 02:15 PM
  #43
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If there was an equal, or similar I would have voted for that.

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Old
08-19-2009, 02:22 PM
  #44
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If there was an equal, or similar I would have voted for that.
Same here, but then the correct answer to poll question is NO.

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Old
08-19-2009, 02:28 PM
  #45
chosen
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Better is going further in the Playoffs but I'm glad to see that everyone her believes that we are going further into the Playoffs next year. Spring Training optimism abounds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
It's not just Gabby.

I believe that the goal scoring depth that we have now is more reliable than what we had last year or the year before.

Gabby is one component of that. Not the end all be all.

As for the comparison to Jagr, you are 100% correct, as well as the Nylander statement, although, the Nylander we saw with Jagr never appeared in any other uniform before he got here or after he left so I look at that as a total reliance on his ability to play to Jagr's strengths.

I'm looking at this team beyond Gabby as much I looked at how shallow that Jagr/Nylander led Rangers team and they couldn't be more different in that we are no longer top heavy nor are we completely reliant on one line to produce offense which was our major problem 2-3 years ago.

Gabby is a small part of the reason for my optimisim this year coming.
Look, I hope you're right but when I look at the top 9 minus Gaborik, I shudder. It reminds me of a modest expansion lineup. When I look at it next to what Pitt, Wash and Bos etc., are throwing out there I'm appalled.

When you look at some of the very young and enormously talented forwards sprinkled throughout the East I can't help but hate Mr. Sather for not having a single to match up with any of them. I especially love the youth of Washington and Boston.

I have been a fan for longer than most here and we absolutely never seem to come up with a kid like Lucic. Why is that? Not to mention Kessel, Krejci, Bergeron etc. Now this doesn't guarantee Boston squat but I'd love to watch a team with that much young talent on it every night. Can you imagine how much fun it is to root for a Pitt or Wash right about now?

Maybe someday we'll get that feeling here. Probability says yes but Sather says no.

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Old
08-19-2009, 03:21 PM
  #46
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2008 Starting Roster

Nigel Dawes - Scott Gomez - Ryan Callahan
Aaron Voros - Brandon Dubinsky - Nikolai Zherdev
Markus Naslund - Chris Drury - Lauri Korpikoski
Fred Sjostrom - Blair Betts - Colton Orr

Wade Redden - Michal Rozsival
Marc Staal - Paul Mara
Dimitri Kalinin - Dan Girardi

Henrik Lundqvist
Stephen Valiquette


*Xtras: Dan Fritsche, Petr Prucha, Pat Rissmiller.


---------------------------------

2009 "Starting Roster"

Vinny Prospal - Brandon Dubinsky - Marian Gaborik
Chris Higgins - Chris Drury - Ales Kotalik
Sean Avery - Artem Anisimov - Ryan Callahan
Don Brashear - Brian Boyle - Enver Lisin

Marc Staal - Dan Girardi
Wade Redden - Michal Rozsival
? - ? Insert D please.

Lundqvist
Valliquette

*Xtras: Tyler Arnason, Aaron Voros, Evgeny Grachev "eventual call up?"




IMO the current Forward Lines blows away the 08 ones . . . Much more skill on each line. Even though I might think our PK will drop a bit this year, without having Shoey and Betts. And our D-Core is still kinda weak though.

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Old
08-19-2009, 04:05 PM
  #47
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While one never knows how a team is going play before the season starts (especially with a roster that has been overturned so much, AGAIN) theres always hope - and a few other things that leads me to believe theyll be better this season.

1. A dyanamic, go to offensive player changes the landscape of any team. The Rangers lacked that last season after Jagr signed in Russia. Gaborik's health and effectiveness will determine where this team ends up IMO.

2. Power Play- plain and simple, it will be better. I guarantee it. Theres no way to go but up from last year. 48 for 346 with 14 Shorties against? Yeah, its going to be better.

3. A new coach and philosophy that I think fits the roster better than in years past. A full season of Tortorella will not only change the landscape of how the team approaches the offensive game, but how the fans approach the home team. The past few years we have been treated to boring hockey on most nights. Not anymore. How the team feeds off of that remains to be seen.

4. Henrik Lundqvist is another year older and another year wiser. He is approaching, if not in - the prime of his years. Thats always a plus going forward.

5. Youth. Players like Staal, Dubinsky, Callahan, Lisin and Girardi continue to grow and for some of them nearing their final stage of development. Rookies like Anisimov and Gilroy will provide a good balance to the team.

Do i think they are better? Hell yes. On paper. As do most people it seems.

But i'll temper the enthusiasm because we all know how you can go into the season thinking one thing and something drastically different occurs.

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Old
08-19-2009, 04:48 PM
  #48
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Loffen...

wouldn't it be more appropriate to compare the team that finished the season to the one coming up? The team that started last season needed to be changed throughout the year to be a playoff contender. I think that's the fair comparison.

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Old
08-19-2009, 05:04 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
This team, as it stands today, is 100% better equipped to advance in the PO's than the team that got bounced last year.

We have a legit game changer in Gaborik.

We have more offensive depth now than we have had in the last 4 years. Including the year where we relied wholely on the Jagr/Nylander/Straka line.

The defence has taken a bit of a hit in terms of experience, but what we get from our 3rd pairing not not going to differ all that much from what we got out of the 3rd pairing last year.

Losing 4th line PK'ers is not going to keep this team from advancing in the PO's and I would counter that with the added offensive firepower, what the Betts and Sjostrom's provided won't be missed all that much.

The guys that are still here have not forgotten how to play defence. We still have a solid group of PK'ers with Drury, Cally, Dubincky, Gabby, Higgins, Boyle.

I may be alone, but I like the make up of this team so much more than what graced the Garden ice last year
And while that might be true...there's certainly no guarantee. Do you really think the best 2 of Potter/Sauer/Gilroy are an improvement over Mara/Morris? Maybe they will be one day...but as rookies out of camp with nearly 0 NHL experience?

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Old
08-19-2009, 05:25 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geddy Lee View Post
How many one goal games did we loose last season ? Sitting here thinking about it, it seems like every game was a one goal loss. 20 - 30 goals extra could have won us the divison.
This. Obviously Lundqvist is going to come under a little more fire this season but I have little to no doubt that our offense should look better. Even if they don't mesh amazingly well they should do pretty good considering the individual talent and the secondary scoring. We are good for 2 play off series if Gaborik stays healthy. If Gilroy and some other new D-man are even marginal on the blue line I could see us doing being ranked 5-9.

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