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Betts Offered Tryout from Flyers (Update: signs)

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Old
08-20-2009, 12:37 PM
  #51
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Betts is top 10 shotblocking forward/penalty killer in the league, someone will want this guy

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08-20-2009, 12:41 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I dont agree entirely.

I wouldnt see the harm at all in keeping Betts around as the 4th line center/penalty killer. Especially considering Torts uses his 4th line so sparingly. Perhaps Boyle is a slight offensive upgrade, but how much is that going to matter when hes playing 5 mins a night with Donald Brashear on his wing? Betts would have been a great team guy who knew his role, and could contribute to the PK (which may have problems this season).

Secondly, do you think theres really some sort of long-term plan in place? Sather has been flying by the seat of his pants in the regard since he got here. The majority of this team will be blown up again whenever Sather makes Tortorella his next fall guy.

Thats when you can say hello to Coach Messier.
i dont really know to tell you the truth...thats just what i'd like to believe

he certainlly has made efforts to point this team in a certain direction this offseason and if we actually STICK to it for a few seasons in a row, we could have a very dangerous hockey team

side note: nothing about sather's track record has indicated that he is capable of this. I just hope he is happy enough with Gaborik and Dubi/AA/Callahan's progress in this system to go into next season with the plan of continuing in the same direction

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Old
08-20-2009, 02:03 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by blue2noise View Post
Boyle has the size, grit and much better hands. Betts was great for what we were. Boyle is better for what we are trying to be.
You're dead wrong about grit. Brian Boyle is not nearly physical enough for someone who's 6'7.

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Originally Posted by The Thomas J. View Post
Letting Betts walk was a mistake, but him & Brashear never could have existed on the same team let alone the same line.

Who ever gets him will be getting a fine Situational Player.
If Tucker and Peca could, then I'm sure these two could have.

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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
This is exactly why Betts was not re-signed. Instead of making the 4th line a "shutdown" line, it's going to be a rough and tumble line that gives the opponent a hard time. And I'm not sure how effective the 4th line was a "shutdown" line to begin with. I thought Betts was far more effective on the PK as opposed to even strength.
While I agree, I thought they did a decent job for what they were. The Rangers haven't had a true checking line since guys like Nemchinov, Tikkanen, MacTavish, and Gilbert were playing. We needed them, and they were more than serviceable.

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Betts is a great defensive player, but unfortunately he does not have much physical presence. Torts doesn't want the team to get pushed around which is why Boyle and Brashear are around and Betts and Sjostrom aren't.
Great defensive player? I think he's a great penalty killer, overall good defensive player. His even strength play is good, but it's not Selke caliber, and he's definitely more physical than you're giving credit for. There's a difference between being physical and being someone like a Jordin Tootoo who runs around looking for a hit. Betts was physical, but he was smart about it. He wouldn't run himself out of position for a hit.

Oh, and if Torts doesn't want the team to get pushed around, Boyle was the wrong guy to go after. I love the Kings as well, and I've had C.I. for a while. From what I've seen of Boyle, he's not physical at all.

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Originally Posted by AXN View Post
Rangers need to sign Dubinsky. Betts is only one PK guy. Others can step up. Boyle and Anisimov can kill penalties and so can Dubinsky and Drury. Rangers need to sign Dubinsky!
I'd like to know how it's proven that Anisimov can kill penalties at the NHL level.

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Originally Posted by Brooklyn Ranger View Post
While I hope he finds a job somewhere, I am very glad the organization has cut ties with Betts. He was a place holder here who did one thing well--kill penalties. Other than that, he's a center who can't set up his wings, is not terribly physical and is somewhat overrated defensively at even strength. Very honestly, in my eyes, he's a marginal NHLer, who's not going to get any better.

Flame away.
The only things that I disagree with in this post are being glad that the organization cut ties with him, and that he's not terribly physical. He's not the kind of guy that lines up people, but he hits on the forecheck, and he always battles along the boards and in the corners. The guy is not afraid of a hit or a good battle.

But overall, yes, he's a marginal NHL'er who only had a job thanks to his shot-blocking and pk prowess, and he isn't going to get better.

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Originally Posted by SML View Post
I don't want to diminish what he's done here, because I really do like the guy, but I said all these same things when Jed Ortmeyer left. The PK is gonna suffer, we're gonna regret this, blah, blah, blah. But I was wrong. We did fine. Every now and then you gotta trust the mgmnt. They're not going to be right 100% of the time, but they aren't wrong 100% of the time either. I like Betts, but I don't think he fits Tortorella's "safe is death" philosophy. If you have the choice to have him on the roster and not be used properly, or to have someone else who will be used to their potential, I think you have to go with the latter of the two. Wish you well Bettsy, please dont sign with the Devils.
I have to say that the PK is going to suffer, not just because we lost Betts, but because we lost Sjostrom and Mara. Our top pk forward pairing, and one of our top pk pairing defenseman.

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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Betts was no John Madden, so what the hell difference does it make?
Good pk'er. You can always use those, and since Tortarella only uses the 4th line for about 3-5 minutes a game, what the hell does it matter how good the line is offensively? They're not going to get many chances to score in the first place, so why not have a guy on there that's a great penalty killer and will always be rested for the pk?

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Originally Posted by NYROrtsFan View Post
I think you people assuming that Boyle plays physical are just wrong... By all accounts, he does very little of that. So to make up for it, he better be good on the PK, scoring, or even passing. NONE of which he's good at.
I've seen Boyle play as someone who watches the Kings as well, and while he isn't physical, I wouldn't say that he's not good at anything. His stint was way too short to pass judgment in other facets of the game on.

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Old
08-20-2009, 02:09 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Coldshot View Post
Good pk'er. You can always use those, and since Tortarella only uses the 4th line for about 3-5 minutes a game, what the hell does it matter how good the line is offensively? They're not going to get many chances to score in the first place, so why not have a guy on there that's a great penalty killer and will always be rested for the pk?
Oh, I totally agree. I like Betts. I just didn't understand why 94now would say "Boyle is no Madden" when comparing Boyle and Betts, since Betts is no Madden himself. Madden has nothing to do with it. If he had said, "Betts is excellent on the PK, and good defensively, and Boyle is no Betts," I wouldn't have said anything.

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Old
08-20-2009, 02:15 PM
  #55
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Good luck to Betts. I remember the quotes from when the season ended; he wasn't kidding when he said it was going to be a long wait.

Quote:
He was a big part of the Rangers league-best penalty-killing unit and was counted on to take important draws. Yet the team was not interested in bringing him back this season.

"I wasn't really surprised, to be honest with you," Betts said.

"The meeting at the end of the year with (GM) Glen (Sather) and the coaching staff, everything was positive. But I just had a feeling that my run there was over and they were going to go into another direction."
http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL...12741-sun.html

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Old
08-20-2009, 03:38 PM
  #56
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Yelle got signed on the cheap and that kinda sets the stage for Betts. I'm really surprised that someone hasn't picked him up yet.

Rangers should invite him to camp and if AA, Boyle, Arnason aren't up to snuff, you know what you're gonna get with BB. Malhotra hasn't been signed yet either and MM is definitely the better option between the two.

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Old
08-20-2009, 03:47 PM
  #57
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I read in the Rumor section of espn that if Matt Duchene falters during camp the Avs might try to pick up a Betts to play center... But if duchene has a good camp than Wolski will slide to LW

i don't think Betts will get signed until training camp as teams start seeing if some rookies can cut it, or if injuries happen.

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Old
08-20-2009, 06:31 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
Yelle got signed on the cheap and that kinda sets the stage for Betts. I'm really surprised that someone hasn't picked him up yet.

Rangers should invite him to camp and if AA, Boyle, Arnason aren't up to snuff, you know what you're gonna get with BB. Malhotra hasn't been signed yet either and MM is definitely the better option between the two.
I love Manny Malhotra, but the rumors earlier this summer is he has an offer from Atlanta on the table. I would think he's looking for a similar offer from a playoff team (but not severely under the Atl offer).

If by some grace of god, the Rangers could get Malhotra, he is a PERFECT 3rd line center. It gives Ani some time to get his feet wet on the 4th line and move him up the depth chart as the season progresses. MM is a fantastic faceoff and PK guy with some offensive ability (which Betts will never have).

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Old
08-20-2009, 06:40 PM
  #59
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What ever happened with that injury? Did we ever find out what it was? He is 100%?

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Old
08-21-2009, 02:35 PM
  #60
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How has nobody signed Betts yet? I haven't figured this out. Clearly he's not going to do much for you offensively, but he's one of the best PKers and shot blockers in the league. Hell at this point I wouldn't even care if the Devils or Islanders signed him (even though it would suck to see him there), as long as he ends up somewhere.

He'll probably end up signing a cheap deal right before or during camp.

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Old
08-21-2009, 03:21 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by danno2530 View Post
How has nobody signed Betts yet? I haven't figured this out. Clearly he's not going to do much for you offensively, but he's one of the best PKers and shot blockers in the league. Hell at this point I wouldn't even care if the Devils or Islanders signed him (even though it would suck to see him there), as long as he ends up somewhere.

He'll probably end up signing a cheap deal right before or during camp.
I hope he signs for a good money, but I wouldn't go so far as to wish him to end up with Devils or Islanders... The most probable option is imo Edmonton, but I would be happy for him if he ends up in Detroit or some other good western conference team.

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Old
08-22-2009, 12:23 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Kovalev27 View Post
ive got news for you guys yes he was a great pker but he was not particularly good defensively at even strength and we all know he has ZERO offensive ability. you can't play very long in the nhl being good at one aspect of the game and unfortunately that's really all betts is. a great pk guy. he's not tough or gritty nor does he throw the body around. he's not a shutdown center, he's not a playmaker AT ALL, can't score AT ALL, and wasn't even that good in the faceoff circle. this is a capped league how much does a team want to pay a guy that doesn't nothing well but kill penalties? not much. especially the rangers a team coached by a guy who likes to use his big guns on the pk. there's no room for betts at all.
Yeah, but a fighter playing 8 minutes per game is also a one-talent player...and the last time I checked, a few fighters in this league are making a pretty nice amount of dough. Penalty-killing is key - without it, you're team is doomed. I think Betts will definitely find a home.

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Old
08-22-2009, 12:36 AM
  #63
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I think the real issue is that you don't know what Betts was looking for on July 1st.

Perhaps he felt as a top pker in the league he was worth oh say between 1-1.5 million and he shunned 750K offers?

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Old
08-22-2009, 01:32 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by TheRedressor View Post
I think the real issue is that you don't know what Betts was looking for on July 1st.

Perhaps he felt as a top pker in the league he was worth oh say between 1-1.5 million and he shunned 750K offers?
I think that's very likely. Betts may very well have priced himself out of the market. And now, a lot of teams are either very close to the cap or just don't have the budget to add a one dimensional player to mix.

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Old
08-23-2009, 09:31 AM
  #65
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Even though he is a great pker and not to great at much else I still wouldn't mind him being our fourth line center if he would have signed for under a mill...think of it like torts won't play his 4th line all that much and he would be suited up and ready to go on the pk...although like others said once brashear signed we kinda figured he would not be on the team anymore esp since they would be on the same line

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08-23-2009, 02:55 PM
  #66
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Aaron Voros is a million-per-year player. Bettsy deserves at least that ...

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Old
08-23-2009, 03:02 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Scotty Hockey View Post
Aaron Voros is a million-per-year player. Bettsy deserves at least that ...
Aaron Voros is a guy that makes a million dollars per season, not a million-per-year player persay (AKA the Sather factor).

Just because our GM hands out bloated contracts like candy doesnt mean the other teams in the league are ready to do so

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08-23-2009, 05:56 PM
  #68
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Voros got that money because he was supposed to have some sort of x-factor, they called him friggin "Showtime" after all. he had agitator potential and an ok enough skillset.

really what the wanted was for him to be some sort of rock star type fan favorite . . . like the singer for the band Winger . on skates.

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Old
08-23-2009, 06:34 PM
  #69
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we have to acknowledge that Betts is a 4th liner....100% a 4th liner, he is absolutely nothing more. he kills penalties and plays defense and thats about it. he doesnt hit, he doesnt fight, hes a nice clubhouse guy, but he brings very very very little else to the table.

IMHO a roster spot like that is better spent on a kid from the minors who is pushing his way up (Byers), or with someone with upside who you are trying to get to flourish (Boyle)...I can see other GM's thinking the same way...a player with zero upside whatsoever who can only kill penalties will always end up being a minus player who is highly replaceable. I'll say it again, Ranger fans are enamored with hard workers because weve been forced to see such utter crap on the ice for so long that these guys stand out. We're long past the point where hard work should be expected, not lauded.

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Old
08-23-2009, 11:15 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
we have to acknowledge that Betts is a 4th liner....100% a 4th liner, he is absolutely nothing more.
perfect. that's where I'd pencil him in, the 4th line.

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he kills penalties and plays defense and thats about it..
and as long as other teams have powerplays and offense, guys like that will be valuable.

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Old
08-24-2009, 12:39 AM
  #71
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perfect. that's where I'd pencil him in, the 4th line.


and as long as other teams have powerplays and offense, guys like that will be valuable.
and yet, here we are, just a few weeks away from the start of training camp, and he cant find himself a job...

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08-24-2009, 02:17 PM
  #72
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and yet, here we are, just a few weeks away from the start of training camp, and he cant find himself a job...
there are lots of players still out there that I think could be valuable contributors to teams.

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Old
08-24-2009, 02:56 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
we have to acknowledge that Betts is a 4th liner....100% a 4th liner, he is absolutely nothing more. he kills penalties and plays defense and thats about it. he doesnt hit, he doesnt fight, hes a nice clubhouse guy, but he brings very very very little else to the table.

IMHO a roster spot like that is better spent on a kid from the minors who is pushing his way up (Byers), or with someone with upside who you are trying to get to flourish (Boyle)...I can see other GM's thinking the same way...a player with zero upside whatsoever who can only kill penalties will always end up being a minus player who is highly replaceable. I'll say it again, Ranger fans are enamored with hard workers because weve been forced to see such utter crap on the ice for so long that these guys stand out. We're long past the point where hard work should be expected, not lauded.
Thats an interesting take, and theres a lot of truth to that.

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Old
08-24-2009, 06:24 PM
  #74
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That's ********, hard work has ALWAYS been appreciated in this city. It is one of the things that makes the Rangers special - we appreciate the guys who bust their *****, even if they can't put the puck in the net.

And for hard work to be something that is expected, you are idealizing the professional athlete which is a mistake if I have ever heard one. You hope for it, and many guys do indeed work, but the guys who hustle shift in and shift out are few and far between and well worth lauding.

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Old
08-24-2009, 07:02 PM
  #75
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That's ********, hard work has ALWAYS been appreciated in this city. It is one of the things that makes the Rangers special - we appreciate the guys who bust their *****, even if they can't put the puck in the net.

And for hard work to be something that is expected, you are idealizing the professional athlete which is a mistake if I have ever heard one. You hope for it, and many guys do indeed work, but the guys who hustle shift in and shift out are few and far between and well worth lauding.
that's baloney. The NJ Devils are a prime example of this. They bust their ass from the top on down. They have very very few slackers on their roster, and its seemingly been that way since the dawn of time....same thing with the Wings, even the blue jackets and the blues...they bust their ***** from the top on down. the 1994 team and the 1997 team was extremely hard working from the top on down... i think the Hurricanes are a very hard working team as well...

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