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A Song of Ice and Fire *SPOILERS* Part X: Complain about DB & DB finishing books II

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06-07-2015, 10:06 PM
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Emperoreddy
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A Song of Ice and Fire *SPOILERS* Part X: Complain about DB & DB finishing books II

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06-07-2015, 10:13 PM
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Lord Moriarty007
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When Stannis left castle black with Shireen I was almost 100% he was going to let Mel burn her and well he did. The burning fits with his show character.

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06-07-2015, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Moriarty007 View Post
When Stannis left castle black with Shireen I was almost 100% he was going to let Mel burn her and well he did.
The moment they had their heart to heart I felt she was destined to get burnt.

But I figured it was going to be with Stannis dead or near death and Mel did it behind his back. (With the possibility of it back firing and bringing Jon back)

I never expected it to go down like this.

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06-07-2015, 10:28 PM
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StannisTheMannis
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I mean, I get it people are upset because Shireen died... but to me, Stannis didn't look like he wanted to do that, but he had no other choices..

I mean, what would happen if Shireen doesn't die,? does anyone here honestly thinks his army wouldn't turn on him? or just go home?

then, the Boltons still have the North. They don't care about what is hapenning at the Wall... the only person/people that know of the REAL threat is, Stannis,Jon Snow, wildings, the wall. The rest of Westeros don't even know what's happening in the North lol,

Stannis did it for one reason, for the greater good. He knows if he fails here, the entire kingdom is doomed. His army just saw him sacrifice his only daughter so they could survive, and lay siege to Winterfell.... How bad is it?

I think most of GoT viewers got too personal with that, for my opinion, I knew as soon as they had this scene where Shireen asks if Stannis is ashamed of her, and he says no, she was going to be burnt. It is GoT, I mean... not happy life.

it's either they all die, or Shireen dies. How hard is it to understand he did what he thought was best, not for him(OBVIOUSLY...) but for his troops, the North, and for Westeros.

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06-07-2015, 10:36 PM
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I don't see how stannis had any choice here. It was either save his daughter or save the realm. It fits his character in the show. I don't see any way that he doesn't lose the battle for winterfell now though. Unless the end game of the story is the white walkers just killing everyone in the 7.. On a side note, If the burning of shireen happens in the book as is implied on the inside the episode then GRRM may be losing it... Would be completely contradictory of book stannis.

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06-07-2015, 10:43 PM
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Do some really think that Stannis wouldn't do something like this? I mean, he murdered his brother for merely challenging him. This is a guy who will do anything for power. He's a megalomaniac. He's not a good dude. He was never a good dude. It's not his job to be a good dude.

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06-07-2015, 10:46 PM
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No way the Brienne/Stannis/Ramsay/Sansa/Theon/battleforWinterfell storyline gets wrapped next week.

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06-07-2015, 10:47 PM
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On another note.

If we don't have another Dorne scene to at least hint at the southern conspiracy. Then what in the flying hell was the point of having Dorne at all?

Without the southern conspiracy this was literally to just give Jamie something to do all year instead of wasting time in the river lands.

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06-07-2015, 10:48 PM
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Sure, but before they talk specifically about how horrible Stannis doing that is. Then he used the same terms to explain what GRRM told them.
You have to keep in mind that D&D have already admitted in the past that they don't like Stannis as a character. So them emphasizing how horrible he is doesn't make sense. The rationale they provided to exply why Stannis burned Shireen does not apply to the book version of Stannis as he constantly changes his mind throughout the books.

Book Stannis is an atheist. If he somehow loses the Battle of Ice/Winterfell without dying, then he just has to (Theon TWOW chapter spoiler)

Spoil:
wait at the Wall for Massey to come back with the sellswords
. He has no reason to burn Shireen. Zero. It is totally inconsistent with his entire character.

That being said, I don't really mind them having Stannis killing his daughter. I have long accepted that they have assassinated Stannis' character. The show is the show and the books are the books, they can do whatever they want with it. I thought this episode was just as bad as the season, but mostly because of the Dorne (why does this plotline exists?), Meereen and Ramsay's mission being so succesful.

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06-07-2015, 10:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECL View Post
Do some really think that Stannis wouldn't do something like this? I mean, he murdered his brother for merely challenging him. This is a guy who will do anything for power. He's a megalomaniac. He's not a good dude. He was never a good dude. It's not his job to be a good dude.
, his brother wanted the crown for himself, even after Eddard told him that Stannis should be the King (next in line after Robert,,,) and what Stannis said was fair to him, but his brother saw his own ambitions rather than a duty,(Renly)


do anything for power? he has said time and time again throughout the books, it isn't to get power, he feels like it is his duty to be the king.

and of all the lords of westeros, one raven came to Dragonstone, and he was the only one to answer the call of the Night's Watch which saved them from the wildlings, he is the only one who wants to rat out the Boltons out of the North,

if anything you can look at various aspects of his character book/tv show, but he's not a megalomanic, he is not looking for power. It's his duty to be the King,


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Originally Posted by Emperoreddy View Post
On another note.

If we don't have another Dorne scene to at least hint at the southern conspiracy. Then what in the flying hell was the point of having Dorne at all?

Without the southern conspiracy this was literally to just give Jamie something to do all year instead of wasting time in the river lands.

well, if Tommen somehow dies, Myrcella becomes Queen? then Trystanne becomes the new king? I really don't know why they showed Dorne this season, with the whole sand snakes bit with Bronn/Jaimie doing the rescue mission, since afterall, just Jaimie getting there as a diplomat to speak with Doran would of sufficed lol

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06-07-2015, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by 4thline4life View Post
I don't see how stannis had any choice here. It was either save his daughter or save the realm. It fits his character in the show. I don't see any way that he doesn't lose the battle for winterfell now though. Unless the end game of the story is the white walkers just killing everyone in the 7.. On a side note, If the burning of shireen happens in the book as is implied on the inside the episode then GRRM may be losing it... Would be completely contradictory of book stannis.
Melisandre and Shireen are at Castle Black, book Stannis would not be able to give that order to her. That doesn't mean Melisandre won't do it. She most certainly will, only it will be to save Jon, IMO.

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06-07-2015, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by ECL View Post
Do some really think that Stannis wouldn't do something like this? I mean, he murdered his brother for merely challenging him. This is a guy who will do anything for power. He's a megalomaniac. He's not a good dude. He was never a good dude. It's not his job to be a good dude.
He executed his brother because Renly was a traitor who was about to kill him. He then expressed his regret for this decision and went in depression for half a book because of it.

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06-07-2015, 10:52 PM
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I'm so pissed right now. But also impressed. Ugh, so many feels.

I have no one to root for right now. Except maybe Jon but I don't see any way he actually ends up on the throne.

But I do think that with Shireen went any chance of Stannis winning the Iron Throne. But really, you'd have thought that if three leeches full of king's blood are capable of killing three kings, that sacrificing an entire person (and his own daughter no less) would be able to carve a path of blood and fire straight to the throne. If all the sacrifice does is allow his army to move on to Winterfell, well that would be a huge let down.

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06-07-2015, 10:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECL View Post
Do some really think that Stannis wouldn't do something like this? I mean, he murdered his brother for merely challenging him. This is a guy who will do anything for power. He's a megalomaniac. He's not a good dude. He was never a good dude. It's not his job to be a good dude.
Eh, Stannis is obsessed by justice, not power, so I wouldn't call him a megalomaniac. He killed Renly because Renly was standing in the way of "justice". He didn't kill him because he wanted the power-- he killed Renly because he considered him treasonous.

I tend to agree that it's not totally out of character, but it's also not totally in character, either (in classic ASOIAF fashion).

Stannis is defined by justice and pragmatism. Burning Shireen brings those two things into conflict. I wish they devoted more time to Stannis dealing with that crisis of identity.

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06-07-2015, 10:54 PM
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What if Davos gets caught by Ramsay? If Ramsay reads that letter he'd have no choice but to draw Jon in...

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06-07-2015, 11:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
Eh, Stannis is obsessed by justice, not power, so I wouldn't call him a megalomaniac. He killed Renly because Renly was standing in the way of "justice". He didn't kill him because he wanted the power-- he killed Renly because he considered him treasonous.

I tend to agree that it's not totally out of character, but it's also not totally in character, either (in classic ASOIAF fashion).

Stannis is defined by justice and pragmatism. Burning Shireen brings those two things into conflict. I wish they devoted more time to Stannis dealing with that crisis of identity.
I would say both justice and power. Not purely justice. Not at all.

I will say that I dislike the conflict between Book and Show Stannis. But I think that Book Stannis would still do this.

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Originally Posted by Sakicfan View Post
He executed his brother because Renly was a traitor who was about to kill him. He then expressed his regret for this decision and went in depression for half a book because of it.
He still killed him. This isn't some wonderful human we are talking about. It's a man who seeks power and will stop at nothing to get it.

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06-07-2015, 11:08 PM
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the whole "blood of a king" thing is such a stupid plot device.

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06-07-2015, 11:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sakicfan View Post
You have to keep in mind that D&D have already admitted in the past that they don't like Stannis as a character. So them emphasizing how horrible he is doesn't make sense. The rationale they provided to exply why Stannis burned Shireen does not apply to the book version of Stannis as he constantly changes his mind throughout the books.

Book Stannis is an atheist. If he somehow loses the Battle of Ice/Winterfell without dying, then he just has to (Theon TWOW chapter spoiler)

Spoil:
wait at the Wall for Massey to come back with the sellswords
. He has no reason to burn Shireen. Zero. It is totally inconsistent with his entire character.

That being said, I don't really mind them having Stannis killing his daughter. I have long accepted that they have assassinated Stannis' character. The show is the show and the books are the books, they can do whatever they want with it. I thought this episode was just as bad as the season, but mostly because of the Dorne (why does this plotline exists?), Meereen and Ramsay's mission being so succesful.
Link please. This sounds awful lot like crap made up by the baffling Stannis fanclub who conveniently forget the first 3 books in the series.

Also really really disliked how Selyse changed her mind. That was completely out of character, IMO. She was the one pushing forever to burn Shireen.

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06-07-2015, 11:10 PM
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Davos knew what was going to happen to Shireen.Stannis is his king who is a guy like him to challenge the king?He isn't going to turn against Stannis because of this.It's why he made her the stag,kissed her and tried to assure her he would see her again and that she could read to him even though he knew she would be sacrificed.


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Link please. This sounds awful lot like crap made up by the baffling Stannis fanclub who conveniently forget the first 3 books in the series.
We know you hate Stannis but this is true.They have admitted it.And whoever said Stannis is power hungry has NEVER read a Davos chapter that features Stannis.Stannis is doing his DUTY.Gold is heavy yada yada yada he doesn't WANT to be King he HAS to be King.He is Robert's heir.

IT'S THE LAW.

The Stannis haters can't be any more obvious.

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06-07-2015, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECL View Post
I would say both justice and power. Not purely justice. Not at all.

I will say that I dislike the conflict between Book and Show Stannis. But I think that Book Stannis would still do this.



He still killed him. This isn't some wonderful human we are talking about. It's a man who seeks power and will stop at nothing to get it.
I would say that the man you are describing is mostly Roose Bolton lol,

Roose betrayed his liege lord/warden of the North to get more POWER, the morning after the Red Wedding there he was talking to Walder Frey and he is still thinking about his next move to control the North and therefore seeking power.

Stannis never even showed that he wanted power, he declared himself King because it was his, by right. It's his duty/justice that he is the rightful King of Westeros

and one thing I have learned in the GoT universe is, not one man is 10000% good.

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06-07-2015, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by La Cosa Nostra View Post
Davos knew what was going to happen to Shireen.Stannis is his king who is a guy like him to challenge the king?He isn't going to turn against Stannis because of this.It's why he made her the stag,kissed her and tried to assure her he would see her again and that she could read to him even though he knew she would be sacrificed.
Except Davos has done exactly that already once before and was put into a dungeon for it

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06-07-2015, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by La Cosa Nostra View Post
We know you hate Stannis but this is true.They have admitted it.And whoever said Stannis is power hungry has NEVER read a Davos chapter that features Stannis.Stannis is doing his DUTY.Gold is heavy yada yada yada he doesn't WANT to be King he HAS to be King.He is Robert's heir.

IT'S THE LAW.

The Stannis haters can't be any more obvious.
I don't hate any character. I hate this aura that has been built around the character and the people who are making up this stuff to attack the showrunners who have been quite faithful to the character. If it's so true a link must be really simple to produce.

No one is saying Stannis is power hungry.

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06-07-2015, 11:19 PM
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The Lord of Light certainly works in mysterious ways.....

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06-07-2015, 11:22 PM
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Doran seems pretty dumb.

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06-07-2015, 11:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECL View Post
I would say both justice and power. Not purely justice. Not at all.
He's obsessed with power only because he considers it his duty to be in power. Not because he craves it. This quote pretty much captures his motivation for everything:

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mannis
I never asked for this, no more than I asked to be king. Yet dare I disregard her? We do not choose our destinies. Yet we must ... we must do our duty, no? Great or small, we must do our duty.
If he craved power, he would have been scheming before Robert died. And if he craved power, he probably wouldn't have went along with Renly getting Storm's End when Robert took the throne.

Power is just part of his duty, and he's obsessed with "doing his duty".

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