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Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XIV: The Wrath of Baum

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Old
08-21-2009, 10:54 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dado View Post
So...did anything substantive actually happen this week, or are they saving the good stuff for sweeps week?

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Old
08-21-2009, 10:57 PM
  #27
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That about sums it up

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08-21-2009, 11:08 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RousselRising View Post
by showing us that are you endorsing copy right infringement or implying "fair use"

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08-22-2009, 12:02 AM
  #29
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Just read the Wikipedia article on Charles Wang of the Islanders.
I know that the BoG have rejected JB for his- as they say- lack of character and integrity but man Wang has a lot of allegations against him.

I particularly liked this:

"A Forbes article investigated why certain NHL franchises could remain profitable despite poor attendance and overall league unprofitability. They found that several league owners underreported their cable broadcast revenue; they specifically accused Wang of excluding half of the $17 million paid to the Islanders for the 2003 cable broadcast season"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_B._Wang

Is there anyone in pro sports that is without sin?

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08-22-2009, 12:05 AM
  #30
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You're kidding, right?

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08-22-2009, 12:06 AM
  #31
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You're kidding, right?
No, actually, I'm not.

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Old
08-22-2009, 12:07 AM
  #32
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http://www.azcentral.com/sports/coyo...ky0821-ON.html
http://blogs.wsj.com/bankruptcy/2009...gretzky-claim/
COG challenging Gretzky as creditor (two articles)



http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=afAtnWESrIzw
Balsillie still hopeful of participating in auction



http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle1260248/
Melnyk surprised at Balsillie's attack

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08-22-2009, 12:08 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Crazy_Ike View Post
So who would you rather have running the franchise during the proceedings, the guy who pillaged it to boost reports of his losses and otherwise abandoned it, or the league that is stepping in to cover "the little guy"'s costs and reinforce confidence?

Exceptionally smart move by the NHL to do that. It won't go unnoticed.
If GB was telling truths about NHL running pho since last yr why so late?

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08-22-2009, 12:10 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
http://www.azcentral.com/sports/coyo...ky0821-ON.html
http://blogs.wsj.com/bankruptcy/2009...gretzky-claim/
COG challenging Gretzky as creditor (two articles)



http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=afAtnWESrIzw
Balsillie still hopeful of participating in auction



http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle1260248/
Melnyk surprised at Balsillie's attack
Going after Melnyk was a surprise to a lot of observers.
I think it shows how desperate JB is now.
He's going down with a fight though, not being smart however.

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08-22-2009, 12:14 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Fox X Mulder View Post
Going after Melnyk was a surprise to a lot of observers.
I think it shows how desperate JB is now.
He's going down with a fight though, not being smart however.
I do think Jb is going to make NHl air every bit of dirty laundry he can untill they quit and if not i bet he pays peopel to bring it out till Gb gets booted lol

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08-22-2009, 12:21 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Fox X Mulder View Post
I have no idea what you're getting at.
As he is the owner of the Katz group which sells medicine are you implying on the side, he sells drugs illegally?

Dude. A magazine 'accused' Wang of practicing accountancy and you asked if there is 'anyone in pro sports that is without sin?'

May I enquire as to your consideration of the seriousness of an accusation of this sort, leveled by a magazine against a man who made a fortune selling accounting software?

But seriously, almost, yes indeed, there were some crackpots who questioned Katz's suitability as an owner of the Oilers because, as they saw it, he sells drugs.

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08-22-2009, 12:21 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by bbud View Post
I do think Jb is going to make NHl air every bit of dirty laundry he can untill they quit and if not i bet he pays peopel to bring it out till Gb gets booted lol
Gary Bettman has (IMO) done more for hockey in the USA than anyone, save for the Miracle on Ice team.
He's like a pit bull and one of the smartest guys around.
Honestly, I can't see Jim bringing him down. And as much as there are things I don't like about Gary, it would be a huge loss to the NHL if he was gone.


Last edited by 2525: 08-22-2009 at 12:28 AM.
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08-22-2009, 12:23 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nye View Post
Dude. A magazine 'accused' Wang of practicing accountancy and you asked if 'anyone in pro sports that is without sin?'

May I enquire as to your consideration of the seriousness of an accusation of this sort, leveled by a magazine against a man who made a fortune selling accounting software?

But seriously, almost, yes indeed, there were some crackpots who questioned Katz's suitability as an owner of the Oilers because, as they saw it, sold drugs.
I was referring to all the accusations against Wang, not just one.
By the way, Forbes is one of the most respected "magazines" in the world.

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Old
08-22-2009, 12:27 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox X Mulder View Post
by showing us that are you endorsing copy right infringement or implying "fair use"
You are on a ROLL tonight! But you got admit that sums up the week pretty darn well.

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08-22-2009, 12:28 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox X Mulder View Post
I was referring to all the accusations against Wang, not just one.
By the way, Forbes is one of the most respected "magazines" in the world.

And who wrote the wiki article, or that piece of it?

And what, exactly, is wrong with accounting?

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Old
08-22-2009, 12:30 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by RousselRising View Post
You are on a ROLL tonight! But you got admit that sums up the week pretty darn well.
I don't think you could have picked a better piece RR.
Sums it up perfectly.

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08-22-2009, 12:48 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Fox X Mulder View Post
Gary Bettman has (IMO) done more for hockey in the USA than anyone, save for the Miracle on Ice team.
He's like a pit bull and one of the smartest guys around.
Honestly, I can't see Jim bringing him down. And as much as there are things I don't like about Gary, it would be a huge loss to the NHL if he was gone.
Hes pro USA and Canada pays for it it be happier with Burkie yep hes USA but hes spent more career tiem in canada and knows the fans here and knows how to work to keep both sides together i still think he would do more for the game and hes no slouch either.

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Old
08-22-2009, 02:13 AM
  #43
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Hes pro USA and Canada pays for it it be happier with Burkie yep hes USA but hes spent more career tiem in canada and knows the fans here and knows how to work to keep both sides together i still think he would do more for the game and hes no slouch either.
If Pro USA = trying to grow the fan base in non-traditional US hockey markets, attempting to expand the reach of the NHL deep into the southern US and make the league and its members, present and future, more profitable for decades to come, then we agree. But I doubt that's what you meant.

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08-22-2009, 11:09 AM
  #44
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Billy, here is a little it of law to fill in on those points:

Quote:
Originally Posted by billy blaze View Post
lots of accusations by NHL, not alot of meat-

- can't tie Balsillie to Goldwater
That is what discoveries are for. We shall see.
Quote:
- implication that Coyotes can't make money in Phoenix- (well they've tried for over a decade)
Again, we shall see. I take it your position is that the NHL read the Moyes depositions and simply made up that statement in their filings in order to look silly.

Quote:
- claim that they have not marketed the team, sought other buyers, or sell tickets (why would they, they want the team to move)
Well, under bankruptcy law, they are required to do so, whether they want the team to move or not. Irrespective of the debtor's desires, they have fiduciary obligations to the debtor estate. Accordingly, you should know that they are obliged to both seek out all bidders and maintain the value of the estate.

Quote:
- told the season ticket holders that the team might be leaving ( a possibility)
See above.
Quote:
- wanted the team to fly aircraft that are each configured with all first class interiors, electrical outlets, and club work areas with tables.- NHL wants regular charters
Again, you are quite incorrect. Moyes "wanted" this so much, they folded on this point after the NHL brought a motion and before it even came to court. The "regular charters" that the NHL wanted are in fact the same charters that a great many major pro sports teams take, including the Arizona Diamondbacks, the Arizona Cardinals, the Philapdephia Eagles, the Pittsburgh Steelers

Quote:
- took 2 million dollars from the team pre-bankruptcy- but in Moyes mind he had lent the team money
Again, there is the law. This is what is commonly known as a "preference", which is illegal under bankruptcy law.

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Old
08-22-2009, 11:40 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by RousselRising View Post
As someone who renewed his season tickets at the end of last season and before the bankruptcy, the only "real world" communication I've had from the folks who have my money specifically in connection with that fact was a letter informing me I had until Aug. 14 to file a claim in bankruptcy court if I wanted to try and get my money back.

Fantasyland, eh?

Still waiting for that letter from Balsillie that he'll happily refund my money if he gets the team.
I fairness, it would not be JB's role to provide that guarantee. He is not proposing to assume those season ticket contracts. The only proper parties are the debtors (with whom the contracts reside) or the prospective purchasers.

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Old
08-22-2009, 12:11 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by GSC2k2 View Post
I fairness, it would not be JB's role to provide that guarantee. He is not proposing to assume those season ticket contracts. The only proper parties are the debtors (with whom the contracts reside) or the prospective purchasers.
Was just being a smart***, responding to the poster who said JB "would happily" refund our ST money if he got the team and moved it. Happily my butt. More like gleefully let the NHL deal with it.

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08-22-2009, 12:13 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by RousselRising View Post
Was just being a smart***, responding to the poster who said JB "would happily" refund our ST money if he got the team and moved it. Happily my butt. More like gleefully let the NHL deal with it.
History has shown Balsillie only gives a crap about Hamilton. It's not even about Canada, he gladly would have screwed Ottawa in exactly the same way as Phoenix.

His ego is incredible. He so dearly wants to be "the guy who brought the NHL to Hamilton" he doesn't care who gets stepped on along the way.

Of course, buying a commodity for way under its value probably figures into his thinking as well...

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08-22-2009, 12:25 PM
  #48
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Please don't tell me that anybody in 2009 still thinks that Wikipedia is an unimpeachable source of accurate information.

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Old
08-22-2009, 12:31 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Crazy_Ike View Post
History has shown Balsillie only gives a crap about Hamilton. It's not even about Canada, he gladly would have screwed Ottawa in exactly the same way as Phoenix.

His ego is incredible. He so dearly wants to be "the guy who brought the NHL to Hamilton" he doesn't care who gets stepped on along the way.

Of course, buying a commodity for way under its value probably figures into his thinking as well...

I see you've got JB all figured out, Ike. By the way, a franchise isn't a commodity, and yes, when it comes to commodities, most people try to find as low a price as possible.

 
Old
08-22-2009, 12:31 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Fox X Mulder View Post
Gary Bettman has (IMO) done more for hockey in the USA than anyone, save for the Miracle on Ice team.
He's like a pit bull and one of the smartest guys around.
Honestly, I can't see Jim bringing him down. And as much as there are things I don't like about Gary, it would be a huge loss to the NHL if he was gone.
I feel that GB and Daley (sp?) is done after this debacle is settled.

While I am not fully disagreeing with you, GB has had far more costly misfires such as the sunbelt strategy, the selling/mess of Nashville Predators and the American t.v. contract(s). When compared to his successes (the expansions into San Jose and Columbus were his greatest unquestioned successes) the mistakes are far more costly and there is only so much loss that the owners will put up with.

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