Hey Guys, Canuck fan here, I'm gonna ask you guys a question because you guys seen him his entire career.
Jay Bouwmeester what do you guys think about him? What he really good? REally bad? Overrated? Underrated? Is he mean, how's he offensively? Does he deserve the contract he is getting right now? thanks.
His complete game doesn't show up on the stats sheet, so fans of other teams who haven't seen him play much miss the subtleties of his game, and thus call him overrated. He is similar to Lidstrom, in that he can shut guys down defensively without throwing huge hits, which might put him out of position. Attesting to his defensive talent, he often played the entire 2 minutes of the pk, and was most often matched up against the opponents best forward. His offensive game is still developing, in my opinion, as he just started to assert himself more offensively over the last two years. When he does jump into the play, when he moves toward the net, he becomes more of a scorer. He could work on his routine puck movement in the offensive zone, although he has an excellent break-out pass and is one of the best skating d-men in the league. He's not what I'd call mean, but he doesn't get pushed around -- I remember a practice early in his career, where he went at Huselius for trying to hit people in practice instead of in games.
Like Pukboy5kroner said, his stats are not that good, but all little things he does on the ice don't show up on the scorecheet.
You really need to watch him play on a regular basis to realize how good he is.
I think he's a little bit overated when it comes to the PP though. He has an average shot and tend to lose these "easy" pucks at the blueline, which is really frustrating to see.
Awesome defensivly rarely makes mistakes. Offensive game isn't as good but solid. Can't handle bouncing pucks, can't hold the puck inside the zone on PP. No character at all. I think he'll do great on a team with natural leaders as long as he doesn't have to carry a team alone.
I have seen this guy play at the NHL level live at least 25 times, so I'm far from being an expert on Bouwmeester, that being said I have been around hockey since before most of you were born.
Jay Bouwmeester imco is not deserving of the pay that a SS gets, I am in no way saying that JB is not a good Dman, but he is certainly more than a few ticks from the level of great.
Guys that have the reputation that JB has acquired, have usually gotten it by having elite seasons or at least an elite post-season, this guy has had neither.
Bouwmeester is very good on his skates, I would rate him as no better or worse than a say somebody like Mike Green or Lidstrom. Neither are elite on their skates but both can be considered A level as you may know, Bouwmeester does have great acceleration
Bouwmeester does not have a feared cannon from the point nor does he have pin point accuracy, his shot as I see it is a little above average as far as the NHL goes
Bouwmeester is not overly physical but makes up for it with a fairly quick stick and decent positioning. However in a fight for a puck, whereas Lidstrom wins those battles more often than not, JB doesn't.
Bouwmeester compete level is good as far as I could see but when the Panthers were fighting for a playoff spot last year even though his TOI increased slightly down the stretch, his play tailed off as did his offensive numbers, to me there is a red flag there.
Offense is one of his strong points and he averages @43ppg so far over his 471 games what is interestign to note is that his best season as a pro was 46pts and he finished 21st among blueliners, that waas coming out the players strike/lock-out where league average actually went up, since then Jay has settled into the 40ish plateau. good numbers no doubt but not elite
Bouwmeester is a regular shot blocker and gets his share as he played a lot of PK for the Panthers and is not afraid to get out in front and take pucks, he is a regular in the 100 blocked shots club but will never be mistaken for the Michalek/Volchenkov types.
To me Jay Bouwmeester is a taller version of Wade Redden, who also had a rep as an "elite" Dman but has since been downgraded when he lost the partner that helped gain him that rep. Maybe, just maybe with Bouwmeester (supposedly) being paired with Phaneuf, his play will finally be worthy of being called elite. Me I just don't see it
Attesting to his defensive talent, he often played the entire 2 minutes of the pk, and was most often matched up against the opponents best forward.
I remember one game, against Dallas, last season. In 3rd period, I think he played straight 9 minutes from 10 minutes remaining till 1 minute remaining (Dallas scored empty net goal). it just looked like that he was all the time in game, Panthers were trailing.
And is he also current iron man in NHL?
- Incredible skater who can jump up in the play and still be the first one back on defense.
- Great defensively. Uses poke check well.
- Can play huge minutes.
- Last season he showed some real offensive upside.
Cons:
- Pretty soft, doesn't throw the body much.
- Zero character. Guy is a statue on and off the ice.
- Horrible first pass.
- Not a great shot.
In the end. I don't think he's a top 10 D-man. He's a great guy to have but I think he's worthy of that #1 d-man on teams.
He's great at most things, but he has a hard time keeping the puck in the zone, especially when on the PP. He's not overly agressive and will really wow you sometimes, but there are times when you're left kinda scratching your head with him. It's like that with pretty well everyone, though.
It didn't sit well with many of us that he fell apart down the stretch when we were pushing for a playoff spot. Not sure if that was because he was pissed he was still here, or if he has a hard time with pressure.
__________________ Gudbranson fanboy and defender for liiiiiife!
- Incredible skater who can jump up in the play and still be the first one back on defense.
- Great defensively. Uses poke check well.
- Can play huge minutes.
- Last season he showed some real offensive upside.
Cons:
- Pretty soft, doesn't throw the body much.
- Zero character. Guy is a statue on and off the ice.
- Horrible first pass.
- Not a great shot.
In the end. I don't think he's a top 10 D-man. He's a great guy to have but I think he's worthy of that #1 d-man on teams.
I pretty much agree with this 100%, believe it or not.
I have seen this guy play at the NHL level live at least 25 times, so I'm far from being an expert on Bouwmeester, that being said I have been around hockey since before most of you were born.
Jay Bouwmeester imco is not deserving of the pay that a SS gets, I am in no way saying that JB is not a good Dman, but he is certainly more than a few ticks from the level of great.
Guys that have the reputation that JB has acquired, have usually gotten it by having elite seasons or at least an elite post-season, this guy has had neither.
Bouwmeester is very good on his skates, I would rate him as no better or worse than a say somebody like Mike Green or Lidstrom. Neither are elite on their skates but both can be considered A level as you may know, Bouwmeester does have great acceleration
Bouwmeester does not have a feared cannon from the point nor does he have pin point accuracy, his shot as I see it is a little above average as far as the NHL goes
Bouwmeester is not overly physical but makes up for it with a fairly quick stick and decent positioning. However in a fight for a puck, whereas Lidstrom wins those battles more often than not, JB doesn't.
Bouwmeester compete level is good as far as I could see but when the Panthers were fighting for a playoff spot last year even though his TOI increased slightly down the stretch, his play tailed off as did his offensive numbers, to me there is a red flag there.
Offense is one of his strong points and he averages @43ppg so far over his 471 games what is interestign to note is that his best season as a pro was 46pts and he finished 21st among blueliners, that waas coming out the players strike/lock-out where league average actually went up, since then Jay has settled into the 40ish plateau. good numbers no doubt but not elite
Bouwmeester is a regular shot blocker and gets his share as he played a lot of PK for the Panthers and is not afraid to get out in front and take pucks, he is a regular in the 100 blocked shots club but will never be mistaken for the Michalek/Volchenkov types.
To me Jay Bouwmeester is a taller version of Wade Redden, who also had a rep as an "elite" Dman but has since been downgraded when he lost the partner that helped gain him that rep. Maybe, just maybe with Bouwmeester (supposedly) being paired with Phaneuf, his play will finally be worthy of being called elite. Me I just don't see it
Bouwmeester is better than Phaneuf. You will see that this season. Phaneuf is so overrated.
I have seen this guy play at the NHL level live at least 25 times, so I'm far from being an expert on Bouwmeester, that being said I have been around hockey since before most of you were born.
Jay Bouwmeester imco is not deserving of the pay that a SS gets, I am in no way saying that JB is not a good Dman, but he is certainly more than a few ticks from the level of great.
Guys that have the reputation that JB has acquired, have usually gotten it by having elite seasons or at least an elite post-season, this guy has had neither.
Bouwmeester is very good on his skates, I would rate him as no better or worse than a say somebody like Mike Green or Lidstrom. Neither are elite on their skates but both can be considered A level as you may know, Bouwmeester does have great acceleration
Bouwmeester does not have a feared cannon from the point nor does he have pin point accuracy, his shot as I see it is a little above average as far as the NHL goes
Bouwmeester is not overly physical but makes up for it with a fairly quick stick and decent positioning. However in a fight for a puck, whereas Lidstrom wins those battles more often than not, JB doesn't.
Bouwmeester compete level is good as far as I could see but when the Panthers were fighting for a playoff spot last year even though his TOI increased slightly down the stretch, his play tailed off as did his offensive numbers, to me there is a red flag there.
Offense is one of his strong points and he averages @43ppg so far over his 471 games what is interestign to note is that his best season as a pro was 46pts and he finished 21st among blueliners, that waas coming out the players strike/lock-out where league average actually went up, since then Jay has settled into the 40ish plateau. good numbers no doubt but not elite
Bouwmeester is a regular shot blocker and gets his share as he played a lot of PK for the Panthers and is not afraid to get out in front and take pucks, he is a regular in the 100 blocked shots club but will never be mistaken for the Michalek/Volchenkov types.
To me Jay Bouwmeester is a taller version of Wade Redden, who also had a rep as an "elite" Dman but has since been downgraded when he lost the partner that helped gain him that rep. Maybe, just maybe with Bouwmeester (supposedly) being paired with Phaneuf, his play will finally be worthy of being called elite. Me I just don't see it
Well from someone who watched him live for all but one of his professional seasons, I think he is a great Dman. It seems that you have to be this massive goal scoring, train wrecking 60+ point player to be considered "Elite" in this league, when a Dmans first priority is to defend. Few do it better than Bouwmeester. People are finally going to see how good Bouwmeester REALLY is. A lot of people think he is going to crash and burn in the Calgary spotlight, but I think he is going to prove his worth.
Bouwmeester is better than Phaneuf. You will see that this season. Phaneuf is so overrated.
Don't know how you got that impression, what I meant was that having a solid partner who can do the heavy lifting may allow Bouwmeester to raise his game to the elite level........as a long time player/coach and fan I don't see that in him now
Quote:
Originally Posted by pb1300
Well from someone who watched him live for all but one of his professional seasons, I think he is a great Dman. It seems that you have to be this massive goal scoring, train wrecking 60+ point player to be considered "Elite" in this league, when a Dmans first priority is to defend. Few do it better than Bouwmeester. People are finally going to see how good Bouwmeester REALLY is. A lot of people think he is going to crash and burn in the Calgary spotlight, but I think he is going to prove his worth.
there are @260 Dmen who play in the league on a yearly basis, are the top 20 of those who play that position elite or is it the top 40, I contend the elite guys are top the top 20..........and no a Dman doesn't have to be a 60 point player nor does he have to hit like a freight train everytime he steps into an opposing player.......but he does have to be at least top 20
two allstar teams 14 Dmen, Bouwmeester has made it once....a Florida "pick" for his other appearences?
Bouwmeester once finished 11th in the Norris voting, other than that not a sniff......why is that?.......because he is not elite, but man oh man does he have a good press agent............wait till the Calgary press, starts pumping up the pressure on him......6.5m over all those years raises the expectation to SC level and he folded under the pressure of having to win a couple of games down the stretch.....which is another thing the elite guys do, you know stand up in the light and take the pressure and use it as motivation........that aint Jay
J-Bo is a great skater and extremely solid in his own end but for the money he just got, he'll be a disappointment in Calgary. I always thought he was overrated in comparison to the hype he gets.
You guys dropped the ball by not trading him to a desperate team during the playoff run for a boatload of prospects and a few NHL ready guys.
J-Bo is a great skater and extremely solid in his own end but for the money he just got, he'll be a disappointment in Calgary. I always thought he was overrated in comparison to the hype he gets.
You guys dropped the ball by not trading him to a desperate team during the playoff run for a boatload of prospects and a few NHL ready guys.
Whats the best way for a teams message board to hate me?
Whats the best way for a teams message board to hate me?
Not trying to stir anything up, but that's just my opinion. I think you guys could have gotten a king's ransom for a player that quite frankly wasn't worth one. If anybody is going to hate me for my comments (which they shouldn't either way) it would be the folks in Calgary.
I understand that you were trying to get to the playoffs at the time, so I'm sure it was a difficult decision either way, but I personally would have dealt him for some future stars.
Do you mean to tell me that everyone on the Panther's board thinks that J-Bo is worth the contract that he just got? Come on guys, he's WAY overpaid and you all know it.
J-Bo is a great skater and extremely solid in his own end but for the money he just got, he'll be a disappointment in Calgary. I always thought he was overrated in comparison to the hype he gets.
You guys dropped the ball by not trading him to a desperate team during the playoff run for a boatload of prospects and a few NHL ready guys.
For the umpteenth time, the best deal that came out was Raymond and a pick.
Not trying to stir anything up, but that's just my opinion. I think you guys could have gotten a king's ransom for a player that quite frankly wasn't worth one. If anybody is going to hate me for my comments (which they shouldn't either way) it would be the folks in Calgary.
I understand that you were trying to get to the playoffs at the time, so I'm sure it was a difficult decision either way, but I personally would have dealt him for some future stars.
Do you mean to tell me that everyone on the Panther's board thinks that J-Bo is worth the contract that he just got? Come on guys, he's WAY overpaid and you all know it.
In my opinion, he is worth it. 6.5 million per season for a big fast defenseman that rarely makes mistakes, at the age of 27.
Not trying to stir anything up, but that's just my opinion. I think you guys could have gotten a king's ransom for a player that quite frankly wasn't worth one. If anybody is going to hate me for my comments (which they shouldn't either way) it would be the folks in Calgary.
I understand that you were trying to get to the playoffs at the time, so I'm sure it was a difficult decision either way, but I personally would have dealt him for some future stars.
Do you mean to tell me that everyone on the Panther's board thinks that J-Bo is worth the contract that he just got? Come on guys, he's WAY overpaid and you all know it.
Dude? Seriously? We (The true Panther fans) Wanted JBo traded 18 months ago when he decided he didn't want to sign another long term contract and play the "wait and see" game. We could've gotten so much more than what we got (Leopold and a 3rd) for him and we can blame our crappy ex GM/Coach for that.
Another "Seriously" ???? If you read the Panthers boards, 99.999999999999% of the fans are glad Bo is gone and don't consider him an elite player, the rest of the NHL and now Calgary does. I certainly believe we are better off with Jokinen and Bouwmeester because both these players seem to be the locker room cancers and are the reasons we missed the post season the past few years. When Bo was playing his best hockey, the Panthers sat in 5th place in the East and had a dominant 4 months. Now, I am not saying no other player on the team didn't make mistakes but as soon as the trade deadline came and went, and Bo was still a Panther, he gave up!
I am glad he is gone, no matter how talented he may be he was definately a bad vibe in the dressing room and slowing this team down. I firmly believe we will be okay next season because we all freaked out about the Olli trade and having no scoring, then Boynton and Ballard showed up and gave us new reasons to cheer and some great hockey.
Sorry, but I can't see it that way. Jay is that good. As has been noted several times, you have to watch him carefully to properly appreciate all the things he brings to the rink.
Sinder wrote:
Quote:
I think he's a little bit overated when it comes to the PP though. He has an average shot.
I'm going to agree with that, but I think a lot of times I think he was just trying to get the puck on net last year, for someone to either tip in or pop in a rebound. That's intelligent play. You don't have to blast it all the time like McCabe tends to do (and I'm a big fan of his). Phaneuf gets a lot of his goals off those soft type shots (wrist?) doesn't he?
Yeah, we should have traded him earlier. Rub that salt in...
I went to LA to see the Panthers play for the first time. I was new to the Panthers, didn't really know them well and only began watching the team after the McCabe trade.
The revelation of the game? Bouwmeester's skating. Everything everyone said was true. I was concerned that I had my mouth hanging open, he skated that beautifully. So, believe me, you're going to have a very hard time facing him this year as many times as you're going to have to.
In my opinion, he is worth it. 6.5 million per season for a big fast defenseman that rarely makes mistakes, at the age of 27.
indeed. if he simply does what he did the last 2 years here - shutdown defense and reasonable offensive production, i believe calgary fans will be very happy.
there are some really dumb posts in this thread. he's not physical? he has no personality? "horrible" (there's that word again - any poster that uses that word is horrible, imo; a little pet peeve) first pass? 99+% are happy to see him go?
yes, there are some aspects of his game that need work but he's still improving. the money is a bit of a stretch, considering that he's never really had a stage to prove himself on but he's going to prove he's worth it, imo.
Dude? Seriously? We (The true Panther fans) Wanted JBo traded 18 months ago when he decided he didn't want to sign another long term contract and play the "wait and see" game. We could've gotten so much more than what we got (Leopold and a 3rd) for him and we can blame our crappy ex GM/Coach for that.
Another "Seriously" ???? If you read the Panthers boards, 99.999999999999% of the fans are glad Bo is gone and don't consider him an elite player, the rest of the NHL and now Calgary does. I certainly believe we are better off with Jokinen and Bouwmeester because both these players seem to be the locker room cancers and are the reasons we missed the post season the past few years. When Bo was playing his best hockey, the Panthers sat in 5th place in the East and had a dominant 4 months. Now, I am not saying no other player on the team didn't make mistakes but as soon as the trade deadline came and went, and Bo was still a Panther, he gave up!
I am glad he is gone, no matter how talented he may be he was definately a bad vibe in the dressing room and slowing this team down. I firmly believe we will be okay next season because we all freaked out about the Olli trade and having no scoring, then Boynton and Ballard showed up and gave us new reasons to cheer and some great hockey.
I can be honest and say that I'm not one who frequents the Panther boards on a regular basis so I would have no idea who liked and disliked J-Bo from these parts. I was simply giving my critique of the situation. I think you guys did okay to get Leopald and the 3rd actually, especially for the late hour that you finally traded him.
Now that I know how most of you guys feel, I can take the gloves off a bit and give the honest opinion...
1. Completely overrated since the day he was drafted
2. Will never win a Cup in Calgary
3. Isn't worth half of the contract that he got from the Flames and will get traded again before he's been there the full term
4. Was more of an anchor than anything in his time for the Panthers and you're better served that he's gone. Enjoy Leopald, who will bust his ass for you every night and doesn't get half the attention that J-Bo gets.
Ok, now whoever didn't hate me already probably will, but that doesn't make me incorrect with at least a few of these things now does it.
Remember that I said you guys are in better shape now, so don't be too harsh.
I have seen this guy play at the NHL level live at least 25 times, so I'm far from being an expert on Bouwmeester, that being said I have been around hockey since before most of you were born.
Jay Bouwmeester imco is not deserving of the pay that a SS gets, I am in no way saying that JB is not a good Dman, but he is certainly more than a few ticks from the level of great.
Guys that have the reputation that JB has acquired, have usually gotten it by having elite seasons or at least an elite post-season, this guy has had neither.
Bouwmeester is very good on his skates, I would rate him as no better or worse than a say somebody like Mike Green or Lidstrom. Neither are elite on their skates but both can be considered A level as you may know, Bouwmeester does have great acceleration
Bouwmeester does not have a feared cannon from the point nor does he have pin point accuracy, his shot as I see it is a little above average as far as the NHL goes
Bouwmeester is not overly physical but makes up for it with a fairly quick stick and decent positioning. However in a fight for a puck, whereas Lidstrom wins those battles more often than not, JB doesn't.
Bouwmeester compete level is good as far as I could see but when the Panthers were fighting for a playoff spot last year even though his TOI increased slightly down the stretch, his play tailed off as did his offensive numbers, to me there is a red flag there.
Offense is one of his strong points and he averages @43ppg so far over his 471 games what is interestign to note is that his best season as a pro was 46pts and he finished 21st among blueliners, that waas coming out the players strike/lock-out where league average actually went up, since then Jay has settled into the 40ish plateau. good numbers no doubt but not elite
Bouwmeester is a regular shot blocker and gets his share as he played a lot of PK for the Panthers and is not afraid to get out in front and take pucks, he is a regular in the 100 blocked shots club but will never be mistaken for the Michalek/Volchenkov types.
To me Jay Bouwmeester is a taller version of Wade Redden, who also had a rep as an "elite" Dman but has since been downgraded when he lost the partner that helped gain him that rep. Maybe, just maybe with Bouwmeester (supposedly) being paired with Phaneuf, his play will finally be worthy of being called elite. Me I just don't see it
I pretty much agree with your assessment, although I must quibble with the skating skills comment. Jay's one of the best, most effortless skaters in the league, with almost shades of Niedermeyer. This is the one asset that gives him an advantage. He does not have exceptional vision, he's not a great passer, neither an excellent shot, nor an elite stickhandler. He's primarily an absolutely exceptional skater, and is good positionally, which together make him en excellent defenseman, but that's not enough to make him elite. I'm a STH and have seen Jay play plenty. Although I agree that he's not in the elite department of NHL, he was the best THIS team had, and for this reason I didn't like losing him.
People who think Jay's (lack of) personality is irrelevant to the level of hockey he plays need to explain why it's commonly accepted as obvious that Booth would not be the player he is were it not for his strong character and personality.......In any case, Jay was much more likely to get away with having the personality of an ironing board in South Florida, where hockey's not the #1 sport, than in Calgary, where it is. Here he was a big fish in a small pond, now he's a relatively smaller fish in a much bigger pond. Was that a good tradeoff for Jay?
I can be honest and say that I'm not one who frequents the Panther boards on a regular basis so I would have no idea who liked and disliked J-Bo from these parts. I was simply giving my critique of the situation. I think you guys did okay to get Leopald and the 3rd actually, especially for the late hour that you finally traded him.
Now that I know how most of you guys feel, I can take the gloves off a bit and give the honest opinion...
1. Completely overrated since the day he was drafted
2. Will never win a Cup in Calgary
3. Isn't worth half of the contract that he got from the Flames and will get traded again before he's been there the full term
4. Was more of an anchor than anything in his time for the Panthers and you're better served that he's gone. Enjoy Leopald, who will bust his ass for you every night and doesn't get half the attention that J-Bo gets.
Ok, now whoever didn't hate me already probably will, but that doesn't make me incorrect with at least a few of these things now does it.
Remember that I said you guys are in better shape now, so don't be too harsh.
We would be in better shape if we'd spent the money that was freed up on Tanguay or Zherdev. But we didn't and by all appearances we won't so we're actually in worse shape.
I pretty much agree with your assessment, although I must quibble with the skating skills comment. Jay's one of the best, most effortless skaters in the league, with almost shades of Niedermeyer. This is the one asset that gives him an advantage. He does not have exceptional vision, he's not a great passer, neither an excellent shot, nor an elite stickhandler. He's primarily an absolutely exceptional skater, and is good positionally, which together make him en excellent defenseman, but that's not enough to make him elite. I'm a STH and have seen Jay play plenty. Although I agree that he's not in the elite department of NHL, he was the best THIS team had, and for this reason I didn't like losing him.
People who think Jay's (lack of) personality is irrelevant to the level of hockey he plays need to explain why it's commonly accepted as obvious that Booth would not be the player he is were it not for his strong character and personality.......In any case, Jay was much more likely to get away with having the personality of an ironing board in South Florida, where hockey's not the #1 sport, than in Calgary, where it is. Here he was a big fish in a small pond, now he's a relatively smaller fish in a much bigger pond. Was that a good tradeoff for Jay?
thanks for that, and that's pretty much where I stand as well, good player but short of elite......as far as the Calgary thing goes I disagree somewhat with your sentiment, because of the contract and the advance press, Jay will be a big fish in that big hockey pond and the minute he or Flames don't live up to expectation, guess who's getting the beat down. Phaneuf got it all last year whether deservedly or so but he's a strong enough personality to handle it at least outwardly, Jay seems somewhat soft and introverted, this is not a good combination to handle a lot of very loud and harsh criticism
I've seen just about every game that he played here.
The skating is unbelievable. You can really only appreciate it at ice level. Go down to ice level during the pre-game. Effortless doesn't begin to describe it.
He is human so he makes mistakes on the ice. but I think that the mistakes that he has made is the reason that he is not "pure elite" right now.
Calgary will be a big test, on the ice and in the media. He does lack any personality whatsoever. If you've been around him you would know it. He can't hide behing the opinions, misconception, etc. of 'the Panthers aren't a good Team' because that is not the opinion of most when it comes to the Flames.
He never had a veteran D man to show him the ropes and what it takes to become pure elite. He did have Lyle Odelein to take him to the Country bars in Davie though. I wasn't there, but I know a guy who was with him several times.
He's either going to become elite, or he will have all of his true flaws come out.
"horrible" (there's that word again - any poster that uses that word is horrible, imo; a little pet peeve) first pass? 99+% are happy to see him go? 
