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NHL Draft - Prospects Discuss hockey prospects from all over the world and the NHL Draft.

P.K. Subban VS Thomas Hickey

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Old
08-24-2009, 03:15 AM
  #151
danisonfire
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Originally Posted by Doughty Number 8 View Post
Because the WJC isn't equal to NHL play. It has nothing to do with the talent level - I firmly believe that the WJC rewards players like Subban, Ennis and Tavares, who are flashy and very very skilled. However, it does not reward guys like Teubert and Hickey, who play more of a 2-way meat-and-potatoes type game based on consistency and hockey smarts - who needs to make the right play when you can deke your opponent or outmuscle them?

Not to say that Subban is all flash, but the WJC epitomizes his strenghts, while it weakens the games of players like Teubert and Hickey.

It's kind of like Brian Campbell vs Duncan Keith - Campbell is more talented, more points, etc, but Keith is more of a 2-way force.

It's not just capability at defence, it's also the mental game... Subban is primarily an offensive defenseman, while Hickey is a 2-way defenseman. There is no way that Subban is better at defense, not because he lacks a good all around game, but because that is simply not the emphasis of his play.
You are right WJC competition is not better than NHL, but it is a step up from junior competition.

So once again when a two-way all round defencemen is struggling vs WJC competition which happens to be harder than junior competition, while lighting up less talented Junior shouldn't he be the one getting the "I wonder if his game will translate to the better NHL level" comments?

Subban who is labelled as poor defensively didn't seem to have as many problems vs the slighty harder WJC competition and, like hickey was dominating at the slighting lower junior competition level.

All I am saying is the Subban comments seem uncalled for at this time. He has handled the junior competition, he has handled the slighty better WJC competition, lets wait and see how he does with AHL or NHL competition before fans start throwing out opinions.

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08-24-2009, 03:26 AM
  #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danisonfire View Post
You are right WJC competition is not better than NHL, but it is a step up from junior competition.

So once again when a two-way all round defencemen is struggling vs WJC competition which happens to be harder than junior competition, while lighting up less talented Junior shouldn't he be the one getting the "I wonder if his game will translate to the better NHL level" comments?

Subban who is labelled as poor defensively didn't seem to have as many problems vs the slighty harder WJC competition and, like hickey was dominating at the slighting lower junior competition level.

All I am saying is the Subban comments seem uncalled for at this time. He has handled the junior competition, he has handled the slighty better WJC competition, lets wait and see how he does with AHL or NHL competition before fans start throwing out opinions.
What I am trying to say is that the WJC is like an all-star game, except with a higher compete level and young kids.

The international rules don't really help either

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08-24-2009, 03:51 AM
  #153
danisonfire
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Originally Posted by Doughty Number 8 View Post
What I am trying to say is that the WJC is like an all-star game, except with a higher compete level and young kids.

The international rules don't really help either
Do you not see what I am saying though? PK who has done great vs junior and the higher level WJC competition should not be recieving comments about his game not working at a higher level. To date he has handled all competition thrown at him. If he plays AHL and falls flat on his face I will be the first one to question him.

When comparing two players, one who has handled every level of competition thrown at him, and the other who seemed to stumble, even if only slightly (6 games) vs an increase of competition, the second player would be the one you would think would get questioned if anyone.

I am simply pointing out that HF board members at times seems to draw irrational conclusions. Both the above players will turn out fine.

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08-24-2009, 03:56 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by danisonfire View Post
Do you not see what I am saying though? PK who has done great vs junior and the higher level WJC competition should not be recieving comments about his game not working at a higher level. To date he has handled all competition thrown at him. If he plays AHL and falls flat on his face I will be the first one to question him.

When comparing two players, one who has handled every level of competition thrown at him, and the other who seemed to stumble, even if only slightly (6 games) vs an increase of competition, the second player would be the one you would think would get questioned if anyone.

I am simply pointing out that HF board members at times seems to draw irrational conclusions. Both the above players will turn out fine.
I sincerely believe that people continue to apply a now defunct "defensively irresponsible" tag on Subban. It's unfair and as far as the junior level goes, we can say that Subban is a very capable defensively as well.

However, this is the way I look at it - there are question marks (no matter who we are talking about) with a player that makes the basis of his game on skill - because skill doesn't always translate to every level (especially the pro-level). Thus Subban is more of a risk - bringing a skill game to the NHL is an incredible feat, but it also brings a good chance that the game will not translate (regardless of work ethic etc.)

The game that Hickey brings - namely, intangibles and hockey intelligence, is "leagueless" - a player who has very good to elite hockey sense (like Hickey) will succeed anywhere he goes. Hickey will most likely make the NHL to some degree. So even if Hickey's (tremendous) skill doesn't translate to become an elite 2-way defenseman like he can become, he can still become a serviceable NHL player.

But this is why Hickey was picked 4th overall and Subban 34th.

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08-24-2009, 03:58 AM
  #155
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Originally Posted by danisonfire View Post
Do you not see what I am saying though? PK who has done great vs junior and the higher level WJC competition should not be recieving comments about his game not working at a higher level. To date he has handled all competition thrown at him. If he plays AHL and falls flat on his face I will be the first one to question him.

When comparing two players, one who has handled every level of competition thrown at him, and the other who seemed to stumble, even if only slightly (6 games) vs an increase of competition, the second player would be the one you would think would get questioned if anyone.

I am simply pointing out that HF board members at times seems to draw irrational conclusions. Both the above players will turn out fine.
Everyone wants to discount Hickey and his future based on the WJC vs "increased" competition and yet when his AHL performance is brought up its not big enough of a sample size. Rip him all you want for his WJC performance over 6 games but at least give him credit for being ppg in the AHL on a team trying to make the playoffs.

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Old
08-24-2009, 04:05 AM
  #156
danisonfire
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Originally Posted by kingpest19 View Post
Everyone wants to discount Hickey and his future based on the WJC vs "increased" competition and yet when his AHL performance is brought up its not big enough of a sample size. Rip him all you want for his WJC performance over 6 games but at least give him credit for being ppg in the AHL on a team trying to make the playoffs.
Fair enough, leaving hickey out of this now as I believe he will end up just fine. As for Subban I think I at least made my point that nobody should be trashing his games ability to advance to a higher level when he has showed no reason to doubt his capability of doing it.

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Old
08-24-2009, 04:35 AM
  #157
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Originally Posted by danisonfire View Post
When comparing two players, one who has handled every level of competition thrown at him, and the other who seemed to stumble, even if only slightly (6 games) vs an increase of competition, the second player would be the one you would think would get questioned if anyone.
I would have really thought you would have learned from this experience:
http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=2...5&postcount=16

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Old
08-24-2009, 04:41 AM
  #158
danisonfire
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Originally Posted by ean View Post
I would have really thought you would have learned from this experience:
http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=2...5&postcount=16
And which way would a story of a bad player turning good relate too two consistantly good players? There is no reason to doubt a player until they give you a reason to doubt them.

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