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The All-Time AAA11 Thread (sign-up, roster post, picks, etc)

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Old
09-09-2009, 01:18 PM
  #326
VanIslander
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Look at this ENTIRE REAL LIFE ELITE LEVEL PLAYING SOVIET NATIONAL TEAM TRIO: +1 Anatoli Semenov, C with his two wingers +1 Sergei Svetlov, RW and +1 Sergei Yashin, LW. Check them out. Semenov was a Soviet league first team all-star (1985) and on the national team from 1981-90 scoring 33 goals in 120 international matches. His linemate Svetlov scored an impressive 57 goals in 154 games on the national team between 1980-88 (including some big goals). Their linemate Yashin scored 35 goals in 109 games between 1982-89. The Moscow Dynamo trio have longterm chemistry at the league and international level. (I'll post more later today)

The blueline duo of +1 Igor Stelnov, D and +1 Sergei Starikov, D are the Soviets third great pairing of the eighties on the national team, and the second pairing longterm on the fabled Red Army team. they played together internationally on the Soviets greatest team from 1982 until 1988, Starikov debuting internationally in 1978 and the bit younger Stelnov continuing until 1990. Stelnov has 13 goals in an impressive 153 games played on the national team in the eighties (top-6 dman in Russia indeed!) and Starikov even more with 186 games.

+ 1 Josef Stumpel, C was twice top-5 in assists
+1 Jude Drouin, C had 68 NHL playoff points in 72 playoff games "effective two-way player"

-1 Mike Sillinger, C I have to give a minus-1 for his lack of footspeed and journeylike career performances, hardworking but average NHLer doesn't make the jump to higher level competition imo.

(I'll get to the wingers later.)

+1 Igor Romishevsky, D was a three-time Soviet first team all-star (1968, 1969, 1971) and was one of the big stars who didn't play in the '72 Summit Series.

+1 Marcus Ragnarsson, D the big responsible dman always impressed me, was a mainstay on the swedish national team, played in the nhl all-star game, would be a quality third pairing guy or extra dman.


Last edited by VanIslander: 09-09-2009 at 08:05 PM.
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09-09-2009, 07:10 PM
  #327
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Notice the two undrafted Soviets in the sea of ATD11/MLD11/AAA11 drafteds:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sampe View Post
I’ve recently compiled a list of raw, unadjusted individual stats from the following international tournaments:

1972 and 1974 Canada-USSR Summit Series
1976, 1981, 1984, 1987 and 1991 Canada Cups
1996 and 2004 World Cups
1998, 2002 and 2006 Winter Olympics

While not all that useful in direct comparisons across eras, the list should at least give a you a basic idea of how players who debuted in a specific tournament compare to one another. It should be noted, however, that many of the players have missed tournaments during their primes for one reason or another.

The sample sizes are very small, but in case anyone’s interested, I also have slightly more detailed stats ( = broken down by tournament) for just about every skater who’s ever played in the aforementioned tournaments. For players representing the likes of Slovakia, Germany, Belarus and Kazakhstan I only counted the games in the actual tournaments and completely ignored the Olympic qualifying games.

The top 101 list here includes all the players with at least 10 points. Please let me know if there are any errors.

All Time Top Scorers In Best-On-Best Tournaments
RankPlayerPos.NationalityCareerTournamentsGPGAPtsPim
1Wayne GretzkyCCAN1981-199864520486812
2Mats SundinCSWE1991-200663018203838
3Teemu SelänneRWFIN1991-200663318173520
4Sergei MakarovRWSOV1981-198732216153112
5Brett HullRWUSA1991-200452714173112
6Mike ModanoCUSA1991-20066368233116
7Paul CoffeyDCAN1984-19964336253124
8Vladimir KrutovLWSOV1981-198732214163018
9Mario LemieuxCCAN1987-200432014152910
10Saku KoivuCFIN1996-20064249202922
11Daniel AlfredssonRWSWE1996-20065248182612
12Mark MessierCCAN1984-19964326202636
13Jere LehtinenLW/RWFIN1996-20065281114256
14Joe SakicCCAN1996-200653012112312
15Alexei KasatonovDSOV1981-19914273192220
16Jaromir JagrRWCSK/CZE1991-20066318132116
17Mike BossyRWCAN1981-1984215137204
18Phil EspositoCCAN1972-19762151192015
19Sergei FedorovCSOV/RUS1991-20024228122020
20Nicklas LidströmDSWE1991-20066308122010
21Ray BourqueDCAN1981-19984304162028
22Alexander YakushevLWSOV1972-1974215127196
23Gilbert PerreaultCCAN1972-1981313811194
24Ville PeltonenLWFIN1996-20064248111914
25Peter ForsbergCSWE1996-20064183161912
26Brian LeetchDUSA1991-20045292171912
27John LeClairLWUSA1996-20023171261810
28Alexander MaltsevC/RWSOV1972-1981425810186
29Igor LarionovCSOV/RUS1981-20025326121826
30Bobby HullLWCAN1974-1976215125172
31Eric LindrosCCAN1991-2002428981728
32Theoren FleuryRWCAN1991-20024276111728
33Alexei YashinCRUS1996-20065296111714
34Chris CheliosDUSA1984-20068474131732
35Guy LafleurRWCAN1976-19812143141712
36Kent NilssonCSWE1981-1987319314178
37Viacheslav FetisovDSOV/RUS1981-19963203141731
38Keith TkachukLWUSA1996-20065261241683
39Alexei KovalevRWRUS1996-20064231151620
40Michel GouletLWCAN1984-198721679160
41Bryan TrottierCCAN/USA1981-19842135111614
42Doug WeightCUSA1996-20065284121626
43Denis PotvinDCAN1976-19812143131628
44Martin RucinskyLWCSK/CZE1991-20066295101522
45Olli JokinenCFIN2002-2006318104146
46Bill GuerinRWUSA1996-2006528771431
47Vladimir VikulovRWSOV1972-197631468140
48Valeri KharlamovLWSOV1972-1974215591420
49Vladimir PetrovCSOV1972-19742154101414
50Martin StrakaCCZE1996-2006420410146
51Paul HendersonRWCAN1972-197421594134
52Pat LaFontaineCUSA1987-199842094134
53Kimmo TimonenDFIN1996-2006524211138
54Pavel BureRWRUS1998-20022121111210
55Sergei SvetlovRWSOV1984-198721275120
56Joe MullenRWUSA1984-199131866122
57Brent SutterCCAN1984-1991325661222
58Sergei KapustinLWSOV1974-1981316571212
59Jeremy RoenickCUSA1991-2002318571212
60Vladimir ShadrinCSOV1972-1974216481211
61Mats NäslundLWSWE1984-199132048128
62Tony AmonteRWUSA1996-2004422481210
63Pavel DatsyukCRUS2002-2006318391210
64Ed OlczykCUSA1984-19913192101212
65Anders HedbergRWSWE1976-198121074114
66Viktor ZhluktovCSOV1976-198121274114
67Boris MikhailovRWSOV1972-197421574119
68Thomas SteenCSWE1981-1991317741117
69Brendan ShanahanLWCAN1991-2002427741114
70Steve LarmerRWCAN19911865114
71Marian HossaRWSVK2004-200621065116
72Sergei ShepelevCSOV1981-198421165114
73Fredrik ModinLWSWE2004-200621265118
74Milan NovyCCSK1976-198121365119
75Dale HawerchukCCAN1987-199121765110
76Marcel DionneCCAN1972-198131356118
77Rick MiddletonRWCAN1981-198421456110
78Anatoli SemenovCSOV1984-198721556114
79Steve YzermanCCAN1984-2002422561112
80Jari KurriC/RWFIN1981-1998526561113
81Valeri VasilievDSOV1972-1981423471123
82Teppo NumminenDFIN1987-200673647118
83Sergei GoncharDRUS1996-2006528381118
84Valeri KamenskyLWSOV/RUS1987-199821573106
85Jarome IginlaRWCAN2002-200631873106
I came very close to drafting right winger Sergei Svetlov, who was twice top-5 in Soviet league scoring, though only getting 288 points in 372 career games in Russia. (I went with the more Soviet league goal dominant Skvortsov) But it's the 5'11 194 lbs. Svetlov's national team performances against the highest levels of competition internationally that shows him (and the line he was on) to be effective greats.



Svetlov was second in Soviet goal scoring in Canada Cup '84 with 4 goals, 7 points, including a powerplay goal and unassisted marker in the 3-2 win over tourney finalist Sweden in an early tourney game. He did this with the help of his Moscow Dynamo linemates Semenov and Yashin.

Svetlov's international resume also includes: 6 points in World Championships 1985; 4 points in World Championships 1986 GOLD; 5 goals, 6 points in World Championships 1987; 3 goals, 5 points in 5 games in Canada Cup 87; 5 points and a healthy +6 in 8 games in the gold-medal winning 1988 Olympics.


Last edited by VanIslander: 09-09-2009 at 08:01 PM.
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Old
09-09-2009, 07:46 PM
  #328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Apparently Mighigan doesn't want a piece of Regina. Should we consider my challenge declined
Oh. I didn't see that.

I ACCEPT your challenge.

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09-09-2009, 08:21 PM
  #329
seventieslord
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Oh. I didn't see that.

I ACCEPT your challenge.
Bring it!

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Old
09-09-2009, 09:05 PM
  #330
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We need at least eight of the following. I've already argued for Svetlov and Yashin as scoring line wingers (on the YSS line with Semenov as the pivot).

Now some scouting on the other candidates:

Quote:
Mark Johnson, RW
+1 ... would make a fine clutch scoring second line right winger

- two-time All-American, NCAA tourney champion
- played in eight world championships and the '81, '84, '87 Canada Cups
- scored 5 points in 6 games at '84 Canada Cup
- captained NHL team Whalers (1983-85) and played in NHL all-star game (1984)
- scored 508 NHL points in 669 NHL games
- scored team-leading 10 goals and 18 points in 18 games as the 1988 Devils came within one game of the Stanley Cup Finals
- scored against Tretiak and Myshkin in a certain 1980 Olympics game, have you heard? 11 pts in 7 Olympic games including the game winner over Finland in the 4-2 gold medal final
- inducted into the IIHF Hall of Fame in 1999

Quote:
Tommy Williams, RW
-1 was third in assists one NHL season, otherwise need to hear more

Quote:
Glenn Brydson, RW
+1 a third line or extra skater candidate imo

two-way right winger only had five seasons in the 1930s NHL but four of them were significantly productive

Quote:
Cory Stillman, W
+1 lack of defensive game and flexibility on wing makes him a good extra skater candidate instead of a regular shift guy

not only 3rd in assists one season but back to back stanley cups, scoring 26 pts in 25 stanley cup winning games the second time

Quote:
Chris Nilan, RW
+1 a force to be reckoned with who can take a regular shift, fourth line duty in an all-time context imo, certainly has the resume for selection

3000+ PIM career and an impressive 141 PIM in 18 games in 1986 Stanley Cup championship in addition to some scoring, was a regular shift enforcing player who slugged his way to a cup. He scored 16, 21, 19, 10 goals per season over a five-year span, even played in the '87 Canada Cup and surprise, surprise, led in PIM at the tourney!

Quote:
Ian Laperriere, RW
+1 a fourth line possibility

has the speed, tenacity, forechecking, hitting, needling, agitating and work ethic to compete at any level but his resume is limited and his offense nonexistent

Quote:
Joe Kocur, RW
+1 extra skater only. will win fights, motivate teams, protect unphysical guys like Anisin

Quote:
Billy Bell, W
+1 fourth liner and penalty killer

there are some good quotes on this old era guy's defensive play

Quote:
Ron Murphy, LW
no plus no minus from me.

not a top-6 regular but with talented linemates can produce, hard to peg

Quote:
Jan Erixon, LW
+1 fourth line penalty killer candidate, internationally recognized swedish all-star with decent nhl career with rangers, respected.

Quote:
Ted Irvine, LW
+1 screams of solid third line duty

"a hard worker who could play a physical style and contribute offensively" considered a valuable member of the Rangers cup run in the 1970s

Quote:
Real Chevrefils, LW
+1 a premium top-6 candidate

just read his Legends write-up:
http://www.legendsofhockey.net/Legen...p?player=12257

Quote:
Darcy Rota, LW
-1 too free wheeling without enough success to play regular shift

I loved the Rota but loosy goosy regular on an average NHL team without individual or team success, though went to one all-star game. i just think him one step down from this level of all-time competition

Quote:
Errol Thompson, LW
neither plus nor minus from me yet (leaning toward giving plus because of speed but wanna hear more)

one great season finished 10th in goals, a half dozen not bad production years, has good quotes, was a bit of a leader

Quote:
Zach Parise, LW
-1 simply a one-year wonder at this point

one great season, two not bad seasons in a young, four year career. at this point he is a Cheechoo. nothing more.

Quote:
Alf Pike, LW/D
+1 a good extra skater imo

memorial cup, captained pro team championship then in nhl was a stanley cup winning hero, had decent 6-year career

Quote:
Edmond Bouchard, LW/D
+1 fourth line pker or 6/7 dman

1920s checker who once finished 2nd in NHL assists

Quote:
Ethan Moreau, LW
+1 fourth liner and pk duty

respected defensive forward with the size and speed to handle all-time competition

Quote:
Rob Zamuner, LW
+1 fourth liner and pk duty

hated, hated his selection to 1998 olympic team, watched the announced line-up live, criticized the selection forever after - but no mistaking his defensive play and has some leadership qualities having been nhl captain

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09-09-2009, 09:29 PM
  #331
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LW Real Chevrefils +1

1957 2nd Team All-Star
Quote:
Hap Emms, a longtime coach and general manager of some of the brightest junior stars ever to come out of Canada, once called Chevrefils the best player he had ever coached. "Chevy," as he was nicknamed, was known for his deft puckhandling and skating skills, had led Emms' Barrie Flyers to the Memorial Cup championship in 1951.

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09-09-2009, 10:27 PM
  #332
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Dan Bouchard, G: 0. I'm indifferent to the goalies because it appears Dawson has found their top-2 goalies and don't require a 3rd.

Reggie Lemelin, G: 0. Although Lemelin is one of the better goalies remaining, I don't see the need for him here.

John Tortorella, coach: -1. One stanley cup and a short career lacking much other success.

Jacques Martin, coach: +1. I'll give Jacques my support. He has a ton of regular season success, good longevity, and good presence in Adams voting.

Joel Quenneville, coach: 0. Indifferent. He's done OK, just not quite enough to move up.

Lloyd Percival, coach: +1. Very historically significant thanks to his training methods that were decades ahead of their time.

Tom Renney, coach: 0. Indifferent.

Dave King, coach: 0. Indifferent.


Last edited by seventieslord: 09-09-2009 at 11:55 PM.
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09-09-2009, 10:37 PM
  #333
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Lloyd Percival, coach: +1. Very historically significant thanks to his training methods that were decades ahead of their time.
I would give him a +1 as well. One of hockey's true revolutionaries:
http://www.1972summitseries.com/tarasovsbible.html

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09-09-2009, 10:56 PM
  #334
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Igor Stelnov, D: +1. Should anchor this defense corps. Had good size, represented Russia a ton of times, and played for a pretty long time.

Sergei Starikov, D: +1. At least as good as Stelnov.

Igor Romishevsky, D: 0. I'm on the fence. Not sure he's good enough.

Igor Kravchuk, D: -1. No guesswork involved with him. He played against the best and was an average player. Led Ottawa in ice time in 1999, then was 3rd on a good team, 1st on a brutal team, 6th on a brutal team, and a spare on a brutal team. Career adjusted -19.

Marcus Ragnarsson, D: -1. About the same as Kravchuk. Career adjusted -31. On a great team at age 32, he was 5th in ice-time behind Kim Jonsson, Malakhov, and Markov.

J.J. Daigneault, D: -1. PP Specialist journeyman. If you mention him, may as well mention Jason Woolley.

Lou Nanne, RW/D: -1. Shot blocking defensive specialist. Not sure he stood out enough. Stelnov can do his job better.

Gary Nylund, D: -1. Tough, but overall a poor man's Garth Butcher.

Oleg Tverdovsky, D: -1. brutal defensively; his offensive job can be done by others.

Leo Reise Sr., D: +1. An excellent skater and playmaker; was once 2nd in the NHL in assists. 4th, 6th, 7th in scoring by NHL defensemen, 7th twice in the WCHL (in the two years that it was a very competitive league after the end of the PCHA)

Howie Young, D: +1. A wildman who was also a pretty good hockey player. Frequent PIM leader. Long, distinguished minor league career in addition to his NHL/WHA time. Pappyline likes this guy.

Bob Trapp, D: +1. A two-time first team all-star in the WCHL/WHL and once a second teamer. 1st, 4th, 6th, 7th, 8th among WCHL defensemen in scoring in his 5 years there. Outscored Red Dutton and Herb Gardiner, who played the same 5 WCHL seasons. loh.net also says he was tough.


Last edited by seventieslord: 09-09-2009 at 11:56 PM.
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09-09-2009, 11:05 PM
  #335
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Anatoli Semenov, C: +1. I still remember when the Ducks got him at the 1996 Deadline because he was the only one smart enough to play with Selanne and Kariya.

Josef Stumpel, C: +1. Top-5 in assists twice. He's been near the top of my offensive lists for most of the AAA draft. He wouldn't be the strongest choice but enough that he gets my support.

Jude Drouin, C: +1. Would make an excellent 4th-liner with his grit and clutch scoring. I'd have taken him if Jimmy Herberts wasn't so much better.

Mike Sillinger, C: -1. like VI said: Journeyman with 3 50-point seasons. Good at a lot of things; not really good at anything.

Mike Eagles, C: -1. Could see him as a 3rd or 4th liner but there are still much better options out there. I considered him for my three post-AA rosters six months ago and he kept getting bumped.

Doru Tureanu, C: 0. Indifferent. It's hard to know where to place him. He was close to my top-10, but I think there are better centers for scoring lines.

Alexander Uvarov, C: +1 to be a 3rd-line center. from his bio in Kings Of the Ice, it appears his best talents were in playmaking, defensive play and teamwork: "He had speed, a smooth skating style and stamina... quickly mastered the art of handling the puck... had all the requirements - speed, technique, powerful shots on goal, and an ability to help out on defense... had an outstanding ability to think on the ice. He controlled the game and orchestrated play by speeding up or slowing down the pace as needed.... had excellent peripheral vision... another special talent was versatility... his line attacked aggressively and scored the most goals domestically... when on the national team he became the shutdown center, neutralizing opposing stars... strategy was to keep the puck away from the opposition using a series of short, swift passes... The 1956 Olympic gold medal game was practically won on two goals scored on passes from Uvarov... a team player of the highest caliber, always placing the team's interests above his own... was team captain for 11 seasons in a row, and played until age 38.

Nils Nilsson, C: 0. Not ready to give him a minus, but I think we have our centers.


Last edited by seventieslord: 09-09-2009 at 11:56 PM.
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09-09-2009, 11:21 PM
  #336
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+1 Jude Drouin, C had 68 NHL playoff points in 72 playoff games "effective two-way player"
+1 for the above reasons.

Based on their international resumes, I'm also on board with the Stelnov/Starikov pairing. +1 to each of them.

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09-09-2009, 11:29 PM
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Sergei Svetlov, RW: +1. Absolutely. He had 33 points in 52 games against some pretty tough competition including two Canada cups and an Olympics. He won three WC Gold medals.

Mark Johnson, RW: +1. VI makes a good case.

Tommy Williams, RW: 0. I think he is good, just not quite AAA good.

Glenn Brydson, RW: +1. Like VI said.

Cory Stillman, W: -1. I think there could come a time where Stillman is among the very best players remaining, he's just not there yet.

Chris Nilan, RW: +1. VI sold me here. A poor man's Bob Probert.

Ian Laperriere, RW: -1. We've got better RWs going to camp, particularly better at his jobs.

Joe Kocur, RW. -1. Not even as an extra skater. Not as good a figher, or player, as Nilan. Career adjusted -106.

Billy Bell, W: +1. Can be a 3rd liner with defensive awareness and PK skills.


Last edited by seventieslord: 09-09-2009 at 11:56 PM.
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09-09-2009, 11:40 PM
  #338
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Sergei Yashin, LW: -1. Not sure what makes him special. 16 points in 41 international games, and peaked at 9th in Soviet league scoring.

Ron Murphy, LW: 0. I recommended him; now I'm on the fence.

Jan Erixon, LW: +1. Had a good short NHL career and was a respected defensive specialist as shown by selke voting.

Ted Irvine, LW: +1. Poor-man's Dallas Drake of the 1970s, minus some longevity.

Real Chevrefils, LW: +1. Top line candidate. Had a drinking problem that curbed his career but has undeniable talent. My top-line winger in AA10.

Darcy Rota, LW: -1. Some scoring, some grit, not great enough at anything.

Errol Thompson, LW: -1. Only had one good season, playing with Sittler and McDonald.

Zach Parise, LW: -1. VI said it best. one year wonder at this point.

Alf Pike, LW/D: +1. Multi-positionality makes him a good extra. Would be a Regina Pat Canadian if Colville, Petukhov, or Mayasich got taken.

Edmond Bouchard, LW/D: +1. Another guy who would make an excellent multi-positional spare.

Ethan Moreau, LW: 0. I like Moreau A LOT, but he's no better than Laperriere so I must be fair. Gets a 0 because he's got better size, is a bit better offensively and defensively, and has been a captain.

Rob Zamuner, LW: 0. Erixon should get this job. But I like Zamuner.


Last edited by seventieslord: 09-09-2009 at 11:57 PM.
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09-09-2009, 11:55 PM
  #339
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So it looks like Drouin (C), Chevrefils (LW), Stelnov (D) and Starikov (D) are all Nuggets now (provided they don't receive any minuses, my mistake!)

Also with Two pluses:

Percival, Coach
Stumpel, C
Semenov, C
Svetlov, RW
Johnson, RW
Brysdon, RW
Nilan, RW
Bell, W
Erixon, LW
Irvine, LW
Pike, LW/D
Bouchard, LW/D

I really think the top-6 D should be filled out with Reise and Trapp. Look what they did; does anyone come close? (Romishevsky, by the way, was a 2nd, 2nd, 3rd Soviet all-star, not 3-time 1st.)

Plus, Uvarov was a shutdown center internationally! He should be on a 3rd line!

We have almost enough to make a full team if we can agree on the last few.

Chevrefils-Anisin-Svetlov
? - Stumpel-Johnson
Erixon-Uvarov-Bell
Irvine-Drouin-Brysdon

Gut-Marshall
Stelnov-Starikov
Reise-Trapp

Hrudey
Theodore


Percival

spares: Pike, Bouchard, Nilan

Bolded are already Nuggets. Italics are guys I'm pushing for. non-bold-non-italic are all +2 or +3.

Really don't know who should get that 2nd line LW spot but really sure I don't want to see Yashin signed. He just wasn't as good as his linemates. Internationally or domestically. To my knowledge he doesn't have the reputation of being the "glue guy" or "little things" guy of the line, so I have to conclude he was along for the ride.


edited because I jumped the gun... sorry.


Last edited by seventieslord: 09-10-2009 at 02:25 PM.
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Old
09-10-2009, 12:52 AM
  #340
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It's a fair process. Don't rush it. But we need everyone participating!

NOBODY HAS MADE THE TEAM UNTIL 'THE DAY IS OVER'. 1+1+1-1=2 ... THREE PLUSES DOESN'T MAKE A PLAYER MAKE THE TEAM, A TOTAL OF +3 AT THE END OF THE DAY DOES (INCLUDING POTENTIAL MINUSES THAT MAY COME). MATHEMATICALLY TWO -1s DOES MEAN A PLAYER IS CUT BECAUSE THERE ARE SIX OF US AND 4-2=2, SHORT OF THE NEEDED +3

CUT FROM CAMP: Mike Sillinger, Darcy Rota, Zach Parise

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09-10-2009, 12:53 AM
  #341
VanIslander
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-1 Eagles. Good, maybe very good, but not great enough defensively to overcome complete lack of offense at the pivotal position of, well, pivot.

-1 Uvarov he's just not that much better than contemporaries that he transcends the lower level of competition he faced given 50s soviet hockey

-1 J.J. Daigneault, D: decent but exceptional at nothing, smells of AA draft type depth grunt, can't compete at higher level i suspect

+1 Leo Reise Sr., D for his skating and scoring, as seventieslord detailed

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09-10-2009, 12:57 AM
  #342
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Cut From Camp: Mike Eagles, J.j. Daigneault

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09-10-2009, 11:29 AM
  #343
VanIslander
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
Look at this ENTIRE REAL LIFE ELITE LEVEL PLAYING SOVIET NATIONAL TEAM TRIO: +1 Anatoli Semenov, C with his two wingers +1 Sergei Svetlov, RW and +1 Sergei Yashin, LW. Check them out. Semenov was a Soviet league first team all-star (1985) and on the national team from 1981-90 scoring 33 goals in 120 international matches. His linemate Svetlov scored an impressive 57 goals in 154 games on the national team between 1980-88 (including some big goals). Their linemate Yashin scored 35 goals in 109 games between 1982-89. The Moscow Dynamo trio have longterm chemistry at the league and international level. (I'll post more later today)
The blueline duo of +1 Igor Stelnov, D and +1 Sergei Starikov, D are the Soviets third great pairing of the eighties on the national team, and the second pairing longterm on the fabled Red Army team. they played together internationally on the Soviets greatest team from 1982 until 1988, Starikov debuting internationally in 1978 and the bit younger Stelnov continuing until 1990. Stelnov has 13 goals in an impressive 153 games played on the national team in the eighties (top-6 dman in Russia indeed!) and Starikov even more with 186 games.
+ 1 Josef Stumpel, C was twice top-5 in assists
+1 Jude Drouin, C had 68 NHL playoff points in 72 playoff games "effective two-way player"
+1 to all the above because of what he said.
Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord
]Jacques Martin, coach: +1. I'll give Jacques my support. He has a ton of regular season success, good longevity, and good presence in Adams voting.
+1 because of what he said.
Quote:
Jan Erixon, LW: +1. Had a good short NHL career and was a respected defensive specialist as shown by selke voting.
Real Chevrefils, LW: +1. Top line candidate. Had a drinking problem that curbed his career but has undeniable talent. My top-line winger in AA10.
Edmond Bouchard, LW/D: +1. Another guy who would make an excellent multi-positional spare.
+1 to all these.
+1 Moreau was on my list because he's very good at checking and penalty killing.
+1 Bell though he seems like Moreau. The team needs penalty killers.
+1 Nilan because he was considered a great Hab in my family.
+1 Johnson because he is too famous not to be drafted.

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09-10-2009, 03:25 PM
  #344
seventieslord
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I edited last night's post... sorry for jumping the gun there.

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09-10-2009, 09:39 PM
  #345
VanIslander
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+1 Nanne for me (I didn't top-10 list him but now I wish I had)

The Case for Lou Nanne

Nanne is the NCAA all-star defenseman who captained the 1968 Olympic team and two world championship squads for team USA and was alternate captain of the 1976 Canada Cup team, a natural leader of the North Stars for 10 NHL seasons and IIHF HOF inductee.



Quote:
...a steady and physical defensemen who made shot blocking an art.
http://www.northstarshockey.com/lousoo.htm

Quote:
... A steady defenceman.. mostly known for his defensive, penalty killing abilities
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lou_Nanne[/CENTER]

Quote:
Lou Nanne was a versatile player who was proficient at right-wing and defence. He played all 635 of his NHL games with the Minnesota North Stars. While he was a solid player on the ice for the Stars, his greatest contribution came after he retired and built the club into a Stanley Cup contender.

Born in Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario Nanne played three years at the University of Minnesota where he studied business administration. In 1962-63 he led the WCHA in scoring with 43 points in 29 games and was named to the conference all-star team and the NCAA West first all-American team. This was followed by four high scoring years in USHL with the Rochester Mustangs.

After becoming a U.S. citizen, Nanne joined his new country's national team in 1967 then scored four points in seven games at the 1968 Grenoble Olympics. He signed with the Minnesota North Stars in March 1968 and got a couple of big league games under his belt before preparing for training camp.

Beginning in 1968-69, Nanne spent a decade wearing a North Stars uniform. He scored 21 goals in 1971-72 but was predominantly a playmaker and penalty killer
http://www.legendsofhockey.net:8080/...p?player=13821

Quote:
During the 1977-78 season, Name became the first person to become a Player-General Manager in the NHL. He retired as a player following that season
http://www.wcha.com/sports/m-hockey/...120403aaa.html

- the only defenseman ever to win the scoring title in the NCAA's Western Collegiate Hockey Association and listed as one of the top-50 University of Minnesota Golden Gophers of all time
http://www.wcha.com/sports/m-hockey/...120403aaa.html

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09-10-2009, 09:46 PM
  #346
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+1 coach Jacques Martin

because 500+ NHL wins, four divisional titles, a Jack Adams trophy (and twice finalist other years) speaks for itself.

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09-10-2009, 09:50 PM
  #347
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The case for left wing Sergei Yashin



Both Semenov and Svetlov are on the verge of making the team and Yashin is their real-life longtime teammate, so there is chemistry to consider. They played together over half a decade for both Moscow Dynamo and the national team. Not every guy on a great line can be a top scorer!


He played on the Soviet Union's top international team for seven years and 109 contests between 1982-89. That in itself counts for something! Not everything, but something. Instead of going with a Red Army left winger or one of many others in the Soviet league, Tikhonov consistently went to him. Why? The truth is, we don't have a lot of info on him, though he is in the Soviet hockey hall of fame so there should be info in Russian that could be translated. He was "speedy", that part of his game has been remarked upon. He probably was on the national team so long because those years his linemates were also there, the three playing together AS AN EFFECTIVE UNIT. That in itself is a partial reason to draft him. He is no scrub. That much is obvious. If Yashin-Semenov-Svetlov could skate together and be a top level line for most of the eighties in multiple championships against the world's best, then why can't they here?

- Yashin scored against Canada and Sweden in the final rounds of the Soviet's Olympic gold medal win in 1988.
- Yashin set up Semenov and Svetlov for goals in a Canada Cup '84 game.
- Yashin did not play in Canada Cup '87 because: "the speedy Yashin was hurt in practice in the Labatt Calgary Cup and hadn't recovered in time", as quoted from The Canada Cup Hockey Fact and Stat Book pg113.
- Yashin also was a left winger on the Soviet's gold medal winning world championship teams of 1986 and 1989.

The 5'11 198 lbs was an Olympic gold medalist, multiple world champion and Soviet hall of famer (though way too many get into the Soviet HOF so that ain't so significant I guess). His Soviet league career shows consistency, so obviously he's not some inconsistent flashy scorer. His role on the line and the team, whatever it was, didn't include any expectations beyond what he showed year after year:

1982-83 Moscow Dynamo Russia 43 games 17 goals 23 points 36 PIM
1983-84 Moscow Dynamo Russia 34 games 16 goals 25 points 22 PIM
1984-85 Moscow Dynamo Russia 40 games 15 goals 35 points 32 PIM
1985-86 Moscow Dynamo Russia 40 games 14 goals 33 points 26 PIM
1986-87 Moscow Dynamo Russia 40 games 6 goals 17 points 36 PIM
1987-88 Moscow Dynamo Russia 47 games 13 goals 24 points 34 PIM
1988-89 Moscow Dynamo Russia 44 games 18 goals 28 points 30 PIM
1989-90 Moscow Dynamo Russia 48 games 14 goals 29 points 14 PIM

His Soviet league stats show him more of a passer on the Semenov-Svetlov line, and his offensive production is consistent and of course less than his linemates, which suggests - not shows - that his role on the line was not to score but to do the intangible little things. I am not suggesting he is a glue guy but a great line doesn't have three puck hogs, it has various roles playing together and if his two linemates could score so much than Yashin was doing what? extra baggage? Maybe in the Soviet league. But why would Tikhonov call on him to play in everything from Canada Cup '84 to multiple world championships and the Olympics if he was just a scrub. No, clearly the Soviet Hockey Hall of Famer is a worldclass player, even if marginal in an all-time context. He is not inconsistent nor is there any negative reports on him. That too counts for something. Not much, but something.

All in all, he is a marginal selection in the AAA due to question marks (of lack of info) but would be comparable to a AA draft regular. But given his international success with two others likely to be on the Dawson City team, Yashin must look good at training camp while on that line! That is, he should fit right in if both Semenov and Svetlov make the team. In fact, the trio should be expected to be quite effective together at the AAA level.

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09-10-2009, 10:17 PM
  #348
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Dawson City:

1939 or earlier
1940-1965: Karel Gut
1966-1979: Vyacheslav Anisin
1980-1989: Kelly Hrudey
1990-1999
in 2009: Jose Theodore

So we need a player for >1939 and 90-99.

I like Billy Bell as a versatile checking forward and he'd fit under the 39 or earlier category, so +1 for him

I don't love any of the 90-99 options, but I think Stumpel's two top 5 in assists makes him the best option. +1 for Stumpel.

+1 to Svetlov as well. The info in this thread makes a compelling case.

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09-10-2009, 10:34 PM
  #349
VanIslander
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Dawson City Nuggets Training Camp

Progress of the unsigned:

Jacques Martin, coach +1+1+1
Lloyd Percival, coach +1+1
Joel Quenneville, coach
Tom Renney, coach
Dave King, coach
John Tortorella, coach -1

Jude Drouin, C +1+1+1+1
Josef Stumpel, C +1+1+1+1
Anatoli Semenov, C +1+1+1
Alexander Uvarov, C +1-1
Doru Tureanu, C
Nils Nilsson, C

Sergei Svetlov, RW +1+1+1+1
Mark Johnson, RW +1+1+1
Chris Nilan, RW +1+1+1
Billy Bell, RW/C +1+1+1
Glenn Brydson, RW +1+1
Cory Stillman, W +1-1
Ian Laperriere, RW +1-1
Joe Kocur, RW +1-1
Tommy Williams, RW -1

Real Chevrefils, LW +1+1+1+1
Jan Erixon, LW +1+1+1
Edmond Bouchard, LW/D +1+1+1
Ted Irvine, LW +1+1
Alf Pike, LW/D +1+1
Ethan Moreau, LW +1+1
Sergei Yashin, LW +1-1+1
Errol Thompson, LW +1
Rob Zamuner, LW +1
Ron Murphy, LW

Igor Stelnov, D +1+1+1+1
Sergei Starikov, D +1+1+1+1
Leo Reise Sr., D +1+1
Igor Romishevsky, D +1
Howie Young, D +1
Bob Trapp, D +1
Lou Nanne, RW/D -1+1
Marcus Ragnarsson, D +1-1
Igor Kravchuk, D -1
Gary Nylund, D -1
Oleg Tverdovsky, D -1

Dan Bouchard, G
Reggie Lemelin, G

Note: Drouin, Stumpel, Chevrefils, Svetlov, Starikov and Stelnov are on the verge of making the team, needing just one more positive scouting report, but if both scouts yet to report in see negatives in their game then they could be cut.

Messages have been sent to the two remaining AAA11GMs/Nugget scouts to get their reports in soon.

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09-10-2009, 11:04 PM
  #350
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The case for Igor Romishevsky

The defenseman is a two-time Olympic gold medalist (1968, '72), four-time world championship winner (1968, '69, '70, '71) with 15 goals in 129 games on the Soviet national team from 1965-1972.

He is also a three-time all-star (two 2nd teams and a 3rd team all-star) in Soviet league (1968, '69, '71) with an impressive 126 goals in 437 Soviet league games.

Quote:
...absence of several world-class players affected the performance of the Soviets in the 1972 Summit Series. Obviously, the Olympic Champions Igor Romishevsky, Vitaly Davydov and, especially, Anatoly Firsov could have been a powerful addition to the Soviet team in the 1972 Summit.
http://www.chidlovski.com/personal/1...ts/howru72.htm

----------------------------

Interestingly, I found this:
Quote:
Plante was forced to come up with the big save on
Igor Romishevsky
just before the two-minute mark, after
Andre Boudrias had missed the net twice from close in for
the home club.
http://forums.internationalhockey.ne...ead.php?t=8354

The above quote is from arguably one of the most important games in Soviet hockey history as the Soviets took on the Montreal Junior Canadiens in 1965, dominating the play but losing 2-1 because of spectacular goaltending by Plante, the game important because it is said to have taught the Soviets the importance of improving their goaltending (it is said set the priority and focus to find and develop a Tretiak).

The rosters include a lot of all-time greats:
Quote:
RUSSIA
Goal: Zinger (Konovalenko)
Defense: Ragulin, Kuzkin, Romishevsky, Davydov
Forwards: Loktev, Almetov, Alexandrov, Starshinov, Mayorov, Firsov, Vikulov, Yakushev

JUNIOR CANADIENS
Goal: Jacques Plante
Defense: Serge Savard, Carol Vadnais
Forwards: Andre Boudrias, Jacques Lemaire


Last edited by VanIslander: 09-10-2009 at 11:20 PM.
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