We will have A DAY to to do all this, two at the outside... so let's keep it simple.
If you want to send a 3rd or 4th liner or two on your list, then do it. I will. So at camp we should have all major areas covered (a Lučić type all-time great ought to be in camp, even if not selected).
10 guys per GM to be submitted. Everyone is encouraged to include 3rd/4th liners as well as 1st and 2nd liners but it isn't mandatory.
Although as I'm not a AAA GM this time around, that makes sense. It might be better to do something akin to the all-star team voting this year; top-5 top-6 centres remaining, top-5 top-6 wingers remaining, top-5 bottom 6 centres remaining, etc..
Just my two cents
Thats what I was thinking. I agree with everything you said VanI, and I do believe that we should be making the best TEAM, but everyones criteria might not be the same. We could have a team of scorers, we could have a team of grinders, who knows. That's why I'm saying we should make a set criteria, however small it is, for players going to the training camp, rather than just let everyone make their own.
This should do, but lets hope everyone follows this criteria.
if just 3 or 4 GMs do we'll have plenty to choose from
again, if one considers which undrafted guys could and ought to have played in the AAA draft, then one's list of top-10 undrafted will likely involve more defensive oriented players, as they stand out less in the history of hockey, there is a lot more quality depth there on my lists than top line players! there are several undrafted players whom I think worthy of main ATD selection as fourth liners, defensive forwards, agitators, fighters, forechecking energy guys.
anyways,... submit a list of the ten guys you think ought to make a AAA team but didn't
Don't you turn into Kyle McMahon! The best picks may very well be role players!!! We are not looking at 'the most offensively talented' but instead the ten guys who could and should play ON A TEAM at a higher level of competition, whether an offensive line or a defensive line guy, a powerplay specialist, stay at home defenseman, enforcer, penalty killer, whatever!
There's nothing wrong with that way of thinking. We are still, in essence, "calling up" players from the level below ours (yes, this is the AAA draft but the teams we're building are still far above NHL teams). When an NHL team wants to call up a guy from the minors to fill a 3rd-4th line role, what they're usually doing is grabbing that tough, heart and soul, 2nd liner with 55 points and 160 PIMs at the AHL level. Or the 80-point scorer with toughness, who's not quite talented enough for the NHL's scoring lines, but can be an energy guy at the next level. It's not very common for an NHL team to call up an actual AHL 4th-liner to be on their NHL roster. As you move up the ranks, you settle into lesser and lesser roles. One player, for example, could be a 120 point scorer in the ECHL, a 2nd liner in the AHL, and just a 4th line energy guy in the NHL. It's very rare that a player is so specialized that they're pigeonholed into one role no matter the level. usually it is a defensive specialist with limited offensive ability (always on a shutdown line) or an offense only player with no other abilities (has to make the top-2 lines or he goes down to the level below)
You see this principle in the ATD. Guys who were first line stars for most of their careers, but not as dominant as others, and possess 3rd/4th line skills such as toughness and defensive ability, get placed on 4th lines over players who just have 4th-line skills. So you end up with Jack Adams, Tommy Dunderdale, Cooney Weiland, and Pete Mahovlich centering 4th lines, not Kevyn Adams, Randy Gilhen, Mike Eagles, and Bob Bassen.
When recalling players, teams look for guys with the overall skills to play at that level, and then slot them into the lineup where they best suit the team.
I'm not saying that this is set in stone. Some guys are so damn good at their 3rd/4th line role that they deserve a callup to play that role at a higher level. But they are the exception, not the rule, IMO.
My list of 10 will probably not have many first line players and, in fact, I worried that the opposite of the problem you mention might happen, a team of role players. But heck, we'll see what we get and go with that.
My list will likely include more skilled players but they will include players with the ability to fill a bottom-six role.
Meagher, Kasper, Maltby and several other ATD regulars are drafted solely for non-scoring reasons (they can't score). A great penalty killer is expected to do just that, nothing more. Every great team has room for a specialist or two if not an entire line. Teams don't often expect its fourth lines to score. There are other jobs to be done. Look at championship teams and you see it. A great shutdown line at times has a two-way centre and a two-way winger and a defensive specialist winger.
A defensive forward is as valuable as a defensive defenseman. Offensive skills needn't be a requirement of every skater, though of course a certain degree of skating and stickhandling needs to be.
Plus there are the agitators and fighters. Fighting IS a part of hockey, especially during some eras. Teams can easily accommodate a spot on the bench for a role player, just like teams dress seven defensemen and one less forward.
Last edited by VanIslander: 08-31-2009 at 01:38 AM.
"What he lacked in size, he more than made up for with quickness and agility on the ice,
making him the perfect hound for checking other team's top offensive threats"
"the hardest worker on the team, a great leader and an inspiration"
Hampson received a nickname "The Tic", because he "latched on and never let go". Former Seals coach about Ted's leadership abilities: "Anybody would be happy to have Ted Hampson, a good guy and a hard worker. You might call him an overachiever but I don't think so; he had a big heart. I could use him on the power play, penalty kill and double shift him and he never said a word. He was a good leader, too." About his captainship with the Seals, Hampson said: "I was an old-style captain. I didn't say anything in the dressing room. I tried to give my best effort on the ice and hopefully get the others to do likewise. -- For me, it was play together and play to win."
Hampson described himself as a player like this: "Skating was easy for me. I came into pro hockey as a high scorer but I had to learn to be a checker in the NHL. In Oakland, I got the chance to play more offensively, take face-offs, kill penalties and did my share of checking. I liked to play with guys who liked to share the puck. Team play was important to me and the Seals had a lot of it. I gave it my best try to win every game."
"He was about 5' 6'' in stature but 6' 5'' in heart." — A former teammate "He never quit. You could knock him down, but he'd get right up and go faster." — Dennis Hextall
Bill Masterton Memorial Trophy (1969)
2 x Top 10 in assists (6th, 9th)
C Herb Jordan - early scoring star who played in top leagues his entire career (CAHL, ECAHA, ECHA, NHA), placing 2nd in scoring four times (twice as runner-up to Russell Bowie), plus 4th and 6th. Jordan also demonstrated some playmaking ability, at least as much as could be expected for his time. He twice led his league in sparsely-recorded assists, with 4 in 1903 and 1906. He was also leading Renfrew in scoring in the 1910 NHA season before the Cup-hungry O'Briens, in their quest to build the ultimate team, bought Newsy Lalonde, and Jordan had to make way for Newsy. Aside from one more game the next year, it was the last top-level hockey he'd play. He will fit in well next to the playmaking LW Jack McDonald, his actual linemate for four years in Quebec. (1906, 1907, 1908, 1909)
LW/RW/D Jack Marks - A decent offensive player who was mostly an defensive specialist, with a fair amount of PIMS and great size for the 1900s. He'll be a great complement to the smaller, offensive oriented McDonald and Jordan. Although the three never all played together, he, too, was McDonald's teammate for four seasons (1912, 1915, 1916, 1917, and a game in 1920) - So, needless to say, I love the chemistry that this line will have.
In other news, the McDonald-Jordan-Marks line, now known as The Bulldog Line, will be Regina's first unit as I believe McDonald and Jordan actually form a more potent offensive duo than Gagne and Smith. (my goalscoring research went back just to 1910 but needless to say, a guy who was a four-time scoring runner-up would score better than those guys and many others, if the study was extended back just 7 years)
1947 Stanley Cup Champion
1948 Stanley Cup Champion
1949 Stanley Cup Champion
Toronto Maple Leafs Legends:
Boesch was a wheat farmer who served two years with the Royal Canadian Air Force during World War II. Born in Milestone, Saskatchewan in 1920, Boesch was originally a prospect of the New York Americans. However due conscription and war time travel restrictions, Boesch wasn't allowed to leave the country to attend New York's training camp.
Boesch joined the Leafs in 1946 after playing a year in the minors with the Pittsburgh Hornets of the AHL. Boesch, who was unique in that he was the only NHLer to regularly wear a moustache during the 1940s, would play 4 years with the Leafs and was an important cog in Toronto's three consecutive championships.
Boesch was partnered defensively with Bill Barilko. The two became famous for the "Maginot Line Knee Drop," as both players would simultaneously drop to their knees to blow enemy shots.
Boesch's career was short and sweet. Following the 1949-50 season Boesch had to return to the family farm. His father had passed away that summer and Garth had to return to "make some real money."
Garth Boesch, who later lived near San Francisco, died in May of 1998. He was one of hockey's most underrated D-men in the history of the game. In fact Boesch is the perfect example of why Hockey's Greatest Legends exists. We feel the contributions of players from eras gone by should never be forgotten.
D Doug Jarrett
Legends of Hockey:
Standing 6'3", defenceman Doug Jarrett was a handful for opposing forwards. Rather than resort to rough play, the lanky defender used his superior reach to advantage and generally stayed in position and out of the penalty box. He was also considered a clean hitter whose hip check was among the best in the league.
Jarrett continued to play sound defense over the next few years and usually contributed approximately twenty points per year. One concern early in his career was a lack of stamina caused by a lack of starch in his diet. The Hawks decided to allow him to take in more carbohydrates and starches and play a few pounds heavier. He helped Chicago win its first ever regular season title in 1966-67 and was on hand when the team reached the finals in 1971 and 1973. In the early 70s he often formed an effective and physical defensive pairing with Keith Magnuson.
While he was in the middle of his eleventh season on the Chicago blueline, Jarrett was chosen to play in the 1975 NHL All-Star Game.
Halifax select right winger Chico Maki, who three times played in the all-star game over the 12+ solid NHL seasons he played on the Blackhawks, with six significant offensive seasons and six more significant scoring postseasons.
A great playmaker.. a gritty performer, splendid penalty killer and unselfish checker...
Halifax selects underappreciated speedy Joe Juneau, who averaged 50+ assists per season his first five years, including twice top-10 in assists, before transforming into a more defensively oriented player.
... a good playmaker that was a strong presence in back to back Stanley Cup finals, 1998 with Washington and 1999 with Buffalo... rounding out his game and becoming a very versatile player... became a key penalty killer and checker. He underwent an interesting transformation from scoring star to a jack-of-all-trades utility player noted for his work ethic and strong defensive play. While his scoring totals diminished, his hockey sense remained as strong as always.
- holds the NHL record for most assists by a left winger: 70 (in his 102-point 1992/93 rookie season, runner-up for the Calder trophy)
- 1992 Olympics top scorer (15 pts in 8 games) and silver medalist
- two-time NCAA all-star (1990, 1991)
and an impressive first 8 years of his NHL career:
Offensive years in Boston: 193 points in 161 NHL games (18 pts in 19 playoff games) Two-way clutch in Washington: 234 points in 312 NHL games (41 pts in 43 playoff games, scored 4 playoff GWGs - 2 of them in OT - in their Stanley Cup finals run) Two-way clutch in Buffalo: Only 9 regular season games, but... (11 points in 20 playoff games, Stanley Cup finals appearance)
all in all, even including his thirtysomething end-of-career years, a very good 79 points in 112 career NHL playoff games
...with the Caps he became a more versatile player...a solid two-way player
His exceptional first year blinded too many "fans" to the fact that his best years of hockey were in Washington and that he did get better and better overall as a player up until he was 30, perhaps even 31 years old (Buffalo Stanley Cup run) and that he should not be remembered only for his rookie season nor for how he played as a 35 and 36 year old Hab. A pet peeve. A very underrated, misjudged player.
With their 8th and 9th picks in the 11th AAA draft, the Cumberland County Cool Blues are pleased to select first, one of the top goal-scorers remaining with four top-20 finishes in goals, from Hay River, Northwest Territories, left winger...
Originally Posted by Legends of Hockey In a draft year that saw an abundance of future stars like Jaromir Jagr, Martin Brodeur, Owen Nolan, Keith Tkachuk, and Peter Bondra, Geoff Sanderson found himself in a select group as the Hartford Whalers second choice, 36th overall, in the 1990 NHL Entry Draft.
After spending his junior career with the WHL's Swift Current Broncos, where he led the team in several offensive categories, he was off to Hartford to pursue his dream of playing in the NHL. In only his second full season with the team, Sanderson flourished with 89 points in 82 games and played for Team Canada in the World Championships. The next year saw him have another great season for the Whalers, capped off with a World Championship victory for Canada.
Sanderson kept up his steady play with the Whalers, while capturing another World Championship crown in 1997. The Whalers moved to Carolina for the 1997-98 season where they became the Hurricanes, a fitting name for the season that Sanderson and his family would have. After settling in with the new team, he was traded to the Canucks for a brief nine -game stint and then on to the Sabres who were gearing up for the playoffs. After a great run in the 1998-99 season, the Sabres came close to winning the Stanley Cup, only to fall to the Dallas Stars in the sixth game of the finals.
We feel that Sanderson is a player who we just can't pass up anymore. Great speed and skill, but intimidated by physical play, we feel the fiery Jirik and good checking Jackson will open up the ice for him on the second line. A great fit... and second, we select a very steady Soviet blue-liner, who will form a great first pairing with Curt Giles, from Ust-Kamenogorsk, USSR...
Originally Posted by chidlovski.net One of the strongest young Soviet blueliners of the late 1960's - early 1970's, Yevgeny Paladiev represented Spartak Moscow in Team USSR. He was an extremely reliable and fearless defense player with a poweful long distance slapshot and effective body-checking and shot-blocking skills. Paladiev was one of the Spartak fans favorites during his relatively short career in the top level hockey. Like his teammate xxxxx, he was drafted to the Soviet Army but never played a game for a mighty CSKA, an all-time rivalry of his home team Spartak.
I admit, Paladiev was on my radar. I completele realize he's been overrated by past MLDs and he's the guy I alluded to when discussing those "recurring mistakes". He's gone from MLD top pairings (three times, but selected later each time), to our 7th guy last time, to a #3 in the AAA. I think that's about fair by now. Don't you? He was a soviet league all-star once, represented them in 38 International games, and in one WC scored 7 points when the other five Russian defensemen combined for 8. Although he got outmatched in the Summit Series, the other quote about his play shows that he was usually a resilient workhorse.
He's fallen, and rightfully so. Do you think he should fall even further?
2nd biggest player of his era stading at 6'3 192lb. One of only two remaining defensemen to place in the top 5 in Norris voting. Was mainly a hard-hitting stay-at-home defensemen but had decent offensive ability. placed 6th,9th in scoring in his last two seasons before he suffered a career ending leg injury. Played in 1956 all-star game.
* Placed Top-5 in Norris Voting Once
* Won Stanley Cup (1951)
* Played in a All-Star Game (1956)
* Placed Top-10 for defenseman in scoring (1955, 1956)
Left-winger Nick Libett used his speed and quick hands to be an asset at both ends of the ice. He reached the 20-goal mark six times and would have been better known if he played on one of the NHL's better clubs.
Originally Posted by Detroit Red Wings History
Libett broke in with Detroit in 1967-68, launching a 14-season NHL career as an effective, two-way left-winger. Six times, Libett attained the 20-goal plateau, netting a career high of 31 goals in 1971-72. It was without the puck where Libett was most respected, however. His work as a checker rated him among the best in the NHL.
A durable, hard-working sort, Libett missed only two games his first six NHL seasons and once played 389 consecutive games.
Libett performed these challenging and often dirty tasks for a team which made the playoffs just twice during his 12 seasons as a Red Wing.
Libett represented the Wings in the 1976-77 NHL All-Star Game and was picked to play for Canada at the 1979 World Championships.
Originally Posted by Rod Gilbert
Every time I played against him, I cringed, because I knew I wouldn't have any room and I was going to have a tough time.
Originally Posted by Nick Libett
Checking was different then. Today, checkers can have only four goals. I wasn't a prolific scorer, but I knew I could score 20 or 25 a season.
Originally Posted by Dave Lewis
He had that determination and drive you'd like to see all the players on your team have. You'd slow him down and he'd keep coming. You'd hit him and he'd get back up. And he was relentless as a checker.
* Team Captain (1974, 1979)
* Played in NHL All-Star Game (1977)
* Represented Team Canada at the World Championships (1979)
* Scored 20+ Goals (1970, 1972, 1974, 1975, 1976, 1978)
* Scored 30+ Goals (1972)
* Recorded 40+ Points (1970, 1972, 1973, 1974, 1975, 1976, 1977, 1978)
* Recorded 50+ Points (1972, 1973, 1975)
* Had 8 points in 16 playoff games (including 6 goals)