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NHLPA fires Paul Kelly (UPD: player review of firing completed)

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Old
09-17-2009, 10:36 PM
  #401
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernie View Post
I realize the rules were not followed in the Saskin hiring, but what rules did he break by changing the union's stance during negotiations? Was that not his call to make as president? I understand he ticked some people off but he did get a deal that has been decent for the players.

I'd like to see some more information about the rules he broke there if you have it.
The player reps and all the players had clearly voted on the issue of no salary cap - it was not Linden's call to make. There was bargaining committee at the very least that should have been involved.

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09-17-2009, 11:07 PM
  #402
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Read these comments from Chris Chelios and ask yourself if he doesn't owe Trevor Linden a public apology:

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"I agree that our abrupt vote was questionable without being able to explain our position to our teammates," Chelios told TSN.

"But, at the end of the day, we had advisors and PA staff and not once did they say...we need to wait. There's no doubt the procedure was questionable," Chelios added.

Chelios says his Red Wings teammates were very unhappy over the fact they weren't consulted before the board made it's move.

"As a player rep, my role is to gather information and report back to my team. Following that I speak to the board on behalf of my team and in this case, we didn't do that."
Chelios acknowledges he played a key role in bringing Paul Kelly in to the players association and recognizes the vote to have him fired included 22 in favour of the change; a sound majority.

However, his experience tells him more time was needed to make such a significant decision.

"We've been down this road before. We should have been more patient,"Chelios concluded.

Chelios believes the NHLPA may require some structural changes to give the next executive director more flexibility to do his job.
http://www.tsn.ca/columnists/darren_dreger/?id=291497

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09-17-2009, 11:17 PM
  #403
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
http://www.nationalpost.com/sports/s...tml?id=2004190
Chelios wants Kelly to return to NHLPA: report

I was wondering if something like this would happen.


Last edited by nye: 09-17-2009 at 11:24 PM.
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09-18-2009, 02:23 AM
  #404
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Well props to Chelio: I thought he was amongst the zeolots that got Kelly's head.


Last edited by Kimota: 09-18-2009 at 02:29 AM.
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09-18-2009, 12:01 PM
  #405
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Crosby has spoken up as well.

I guess a lot of the players wonder why it had to go down so fast, in the middle of the night before it was brought to the wider membership.

I guess its as clear to the players as much as eveyone else that this rush job bears all the marks of a coup and some empire building on the part of some individuals.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle1292825/

Pittsburgh Penguins’ star Sidney Crosby has joined the call for an explanation into why Paul Kelly was fired as executive director of the NHL Players’ Association.

Crosby issued a statement today backing up what his agents, J.P. Barry and Pat Brisson of CAA Hockey, had said last night; that the players need to know how and why Kelly was ousted during an executive board meeting in Chicago on Aug. 31.

“I would just say that I agree with Pat’s comments and that I definitely want to know how things happened,” Crosby said. “I am part of the union like every other player and I think we all deserve a good explanation.”

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09-18-2009, 12:09 PM
  #406
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If Crosby is making this statement *after* having the decision explained to him, isn't this a polite way of saying "our rep was a moron for buying into this load of crap"?

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09-18-2009, 01:16 PM
  #407
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Crosby issued a statement today backing up what his agents, J.P. Barry and Pat Brisson of CAA Hockey, had said last night; that the players need to know how and why Kelly was ousted during an executive board meeting in Chicago on Aug. 31.
And that's the real news here.

The fact that the agents are actually speaking openly means that this thing will not be swept under the rug.

Ian Penny should have just shut up and accepted his five year contract. Now his job security doesn't look very airtight.

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09-18-2009, 01:34 PM
  #408
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Originally Posted by Ernie View Post
And that's the real news here.

The fact that the agents are actually speaking openly means that this thing will not be swept under the rug.

Ian Penny should have just shut up and accepted his five year contract. Now his job security doesn't look very airtight.
You also have to remember that JP Barry was an associate legal counsel with the NHLPA under Goodenow (1995 to 1998) so he has pretty good grasp of the situation.

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09-18-2009, 05:50 PM
  #409
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Quote:
DarrenDreger

Rob Blake joins the chorus of players requesting information into the process in which Paul Kelly was fired.
TSN.ca

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Old
09-20-2009, 12:53 PM
  #410
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Kinda OT: Somebody on Craigslist is selling PA Player minutes from 1979

http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/drh/clt/1382703628.html

If nothing else, it's interesting what the talking points were back in '79

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09-20-2009, 12:58 PM
  #411
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy_Ike View Post
Quote:
DarrenDreger

Rob Blake joins the chorus of players requesting information into the process in which Paul Kelly was fired.
TSN.ca
With Blake, Chelios, Crosby, JP Barry et al now questioning the process I am thinking the term "Buzz Kill" may be applicable.

An (Ian) Penny for your thoughts?

The cabal who engineered the place coup may not be in the (Ron) Pink?

OOOOOOPPPPSSS... stuck in pun loop.

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09-20-2009, 01:01 PM
  #412
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Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
With Blake, Chelios, Crosby, JP Barry et al now questioning the process I am thinking the term "Buzz Kill" may be applicable.

An (Ian) Penny for your thoughts?

The cabal who engineered the place coup may not be in the (Ron) Pink?

OOOOOOPPPPSSS... stuck in pun loop.
I guess this Pink thought he would ride the gravy train....

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Old
09-20-2009, 11:56 PM
  #413
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Shawn Horcoff gives some insight into how the decision was made and where the pressure to make the immediate decision was coming from:
Quote:
Shawn Horcoff says he stands by the board's decision to fire Paul Kelly, regardless of whether he believes it was the right thing to do or not, but as a member of the NHLPA's 30-player executive board, who participated in the marathon meetings leading up to Kelly's firing, Horcoff admits feeling pressure from the PA's advisory board and interim ombudsman, Buzz Hargrove.

"I never felt comfortable with the environment the advisory board created in the meetings in Chicago," Horcoff said.

"They had a lot to say. They took up a lot of our time and had strong influence on the decision made."
...
In hindsight, Horcoff says waiting and discussing the issues with his teammates would have been the right thing to do.

"I don't think we should been allowed to make that decision in such a rush," Horcoff told TSN.

"That decision should have waited...it needed to wait. We should have brought our findings back to our teammates and allowed for further discussion with the players."
http://www.tsn.ca/columnists/darren_dreger/?id=291762

When the person who is charged with giving independent advice to the players, General Counsel Ian Penny, slides into the position of the ousted Executive Director there is something seriously wrong with that picture.

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09-21-2009, 12:23 AM
  #414
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Shawn Horcoff says he stands by the board's decision to fire Paul Kelly, regardless of whether he believes it was the right thing to do or not
Oi.

You support running off the cliff, as long as you run off of it together, eh Shawn?

But, after declaring you lockstep with the union regardless of right or wrong, you immediately sell it out by admitting it is under undue influence from a questionable source?

This is good stuff from a sociological point of view. It is abundantly clear that 1. a 'few' people with very good ability to influence people have seized their chance, and 2. there's way too many influenceable people in that list of 30 players (probably guys who don't even realize they are), and not enough Chelioses who will stand up and say "wtf guys?"... accusations from various sources accusing the reps of being too young and inexperienced (impressionable?) appear to be on solid ground. While this situation almost never goes good places, it is almost always interesting...

God what I would give to see the NHLPA's internal forums.

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09-21-2009, 10:17 AM
  #415
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Originally Posted by Crazy_Ike View Post
Oi.

God what I would give to see the NHLPA's internal forums.
I have a friend who is NHLer he sent me some sample most recent threads:

PAboards.com
List top of left wingers in division of SE- Today 3:58 AM (bigpimpinAO)
Did yer lads see mine goal saturnight?? - Today 8:02 AM (NIKLAS HAGMAN)
(Poll) Kelly vs Goodenow - Today 10:39 AM (chilicheli)
Post your USA 2010 lineup -Today 10:52 AM (burkie69)
(Eklund) Vinny to MTL -Today 11:01 AM (burkie69)
Check out my new haircut guys - Today 11:04 AM (Gr3enBo1)
(Poll) Kelly vs Eagleson, who is worst of worst? - Today 11:05 AM (BigEsuperstar)

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09-21-2009, 04:00 PM
  #416
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http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=291762

"That decision should have waited...it needed to wait. We should have brought our findings back to our teammates and allowed for further discussion with the players."

That didn't happen and Horcoff admits his Oilers teammates were upset at being kept in the dark before a decision of this magnitude was made.


Its interesting that both Horcoff and Chelios said that their teammates were unhappy with the way this went down without their input.

And the way Horcoff described the meeting -the pressure Hargove and the rest brought to bear on them-meshes pretty well with what Duhatschuk and others had to say about a palace coup.

But it looks like they got away with it.

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09-24-2009, 12:34 PM
  #417
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Brad Park has now weighed in and delivered a hip check to Andrew Ference:
Quote:
''Let me tell Andrew Ference, one defenceman to another, he should spend more time worrying about going back to get the puck than to worry about Paul Kelly's ability to do the job as head of the PA,'' Park told the Globe. ''When [Ference] was in junior, I assume he wasn't going to college...so I ask, what makes him so [expletive] smart?! They had a guy like Chris Chelios in that room [in Chicago] who disagreed, told them to wait and think.

''Maybe guys like Ference should take time to listen to guys who are older and smarter.''
...
“What you have then is guys who aren’t around long enough to be acclimated to the issues, how everything is supposed to work. So they end up trusting guys with degrees and listening to whatever they’re being told - and that’s exactly what we did with Eagleson. We trusted him, without taking the time to find out if he was a legitimate guy.’’

Ian Penny, the union’s general counsel, is now interim executive director. Kelly’s rapid cashiering began soon after Penny received a five-year contract extension, in yet another hurried vote, one that excluded Kelly - a fact that some players feel was a violation of the union’s constitution.

“So what you end up with is Penny gets a five-year contract and he’s not reviewed,’’ said Park, noting that part of Kelly’s dismissal was a review of his job, a review overseen by Ference, Mike Komisarek, Matt Stajan, and ex-Bruin Brad Boyes. “Huh? He’s not reviewed, but Paul is? Come on.

“You know, I have a new favorite expression: stupid is forever. I never met a part-time stupid person. They’re all full-time.’’
And Mark Recchi is not happy with what happened and let Ference know directly:
Quote:
“Look, I’m not the smartest guy in the world,’’ said the 41-year-old Recchi, long respected as one of the rank-and-file’s character individuals, “but the second I learned what happened in Chicago, I knew the process was wrong. It stunk. This should not have happened and we have to fix it. We can’t let this happen again.’’

According to Recchi, none of the league’s 740 players, other than the 27 who voted that morning in Chicago, knew that Kelly’s ouster was at hand. He said that was among the points made yesterday in a team meeting at Wilmington that was attended by everyone other than captain Zdeno Chara, who was given the day off by coach Claude Julien. Recchi said a number of Boston players emphatically expressed to Ference their displeasure with how it was handled.

“That’s 720 players who didn’t know what was going on,’’ said Recchi, noting that the latest developments have many believing the union is a laughingstock. “Why not tell guys in advance what’s going on? I don’t get it. A lot of guys don’t get it.

“I think Andrew understands now that the process is not right and something has to change. The process has to be looked at, how it went down. We want an internal investigation of how this was handled.’’
http://www.boston.com/sports/hockey/..._nhlpa/?page=1

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09-24-2009, 03:32 PM
  #418
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Paging cleduc and salzy. If the benefit of the doubt they extended to Pink, Penney, Hargrove, Lindros and Ference is to be extended to everyone(as it thus should be), well then those boys have lots of 'splainin' to do.

And if some people are lying, and some aren't, it doesn't look very good for the named people above, either.

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09-24-2009, 10:04 PM
  #419
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Originally Posted by Bluefan75 View Post
Paging cleduc and salzy. If the benefit of the doubt they extended to Pink, Penney, Hargrove, Lindros and Ference is to be extended to everyone(as it thus should be), well then those boys have lots of 'splainin' to do.

And if some people are lying, and some aren't, it doesn't look very good for the named people above, either.
Wait - have we learned something new or did Paul Kelly still go behind their backs and order transcripts that he was denied access to by his employer (twice)?

''Guys that say, 'Oh, you need to have everybody vote on something that big,' well, we had five guys voting on hiring [Kelly],'' Ference told Shinzawa. ''I didn't hear too many guys complaining about the process of hiring him. We didn't have 740 guys vote on that.''

I suppose eventually someone will attempt to guess at a motive behind the nefarious activities of Andrew Ference. We've heard Crosby was pretty upset about Kelly's firing. I'll take a stab at it - Ference was just trying to get back at him for getting the best of him in their little scrap a couple years ago?

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09-24-2009, 10:16 PM
  #420
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I suppose eventually someone will attempt to guess at a motive behind the nefarious activities of Andrew Ference.
I don't think there's anything nefarious at all. He's beginning to understand just how badly he'd been played, and it's causing a counter-reaction that's coming out as borderline ***holeness.

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09-24-2009, 10:26 PM
  #421
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Originally Posted by pepty View Post
http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=291762

"That decision should have waited...it needed to wait. We should have brought our findings back to our teammates and allowed for further discussion with the players."

That didn't happen and Horcoff admits his Oilers teammates were upset at being kept in the dark before a decision of this magnitude was made.


Its interesting that both Horcoff and Chelios said that their teammates were unhappy with the way this went down without their input.

And the way Horcoff described the meeting -the pressure Hargove and the rest brought to bear on them-meshes pretty well with what Duhatschuk and others had to say about a palace coup.

But it looks like they got away with it.
So, Horcoff is done popping off on players senior to him that questioned what happened? Guess it wasn't so easy to blow off when it got to him in his own lockeroom.

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09-24-2009, 11:58 PM
  #422
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I have to say, when guys like Recchi, Lindsay, and Park are jumping on the Union Reps, I become a lot more sympathetic towards Kelly.

I've been following the story from the outside since it broke and I have to say, while obviously the players don't care about the fans too much, it's a real indictment of the character of some of these guys that they can just fire a guy who by all accounts has been doing a decent job and that they still haven't given an satisfactory explanation to the fans (who pay their salaries in case they forgot) or apparently to the other 720 players in the league of what occurred and why Kelly was fired. If the best they can come up with is that he looked at the minutes of a meeting that he had a right to be at from the NHLPA constitution, that's not nearly good enough.

And speaking as a Flyers fan, while I like Hartnell, if guys like him are seriously involved in these decisions without consulting some of the smarter guys on our roster, that scares the hell out of me.

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09-25-2009, 02:05 AM
  #423
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Quote:
Originally Posted by salzy View Post
Wait - have we learned something new or did Paul Kelly still go behind their backs and order transcripts that he was denied access to by his employer (twice)?

''Guys that say, 'Oh, you need to have everybody vote on something that big,' well, we had five guys voting on hiring [Kelly],'' Ference told Shinzawa. ''I didn't hear too many guys complaining about the process of hiring him. We didn't have 740 guys vote on that.''

I suppose eventually someone will attempt to guess at a motive behind the nefarious activities of Andrew Ference. We've heard Crosby was pretty upset about Kelly's firing. I'll take a stab at it - Ference was just trying to get back at him for getting the best of him in their little scrap a couple years ago?
It is most certainly safe to say that Ference is really starting to feel the heat now. Or he's really just totally oblivious or lacks comprehension of the processes within in the PA.... That he is oh so eager to be a part of.

To continue... (next paragraph from same article quoted {bold above} - which conveniently found it's way onto the "cutting room floor" )

Quote:
Kelly’s election came as the result of a vote offered to all members of the NHLPA, who could have rejected him on the basis of his salary. Each player representative was asked to poll his members, asking if they would confirm a recommendation from within the NHLPA to hire Kelly. Each of the league’s 30 clubs voted to put Kelly into office.
And confirmed by the media release from the NHLPA (timeline for relevance)

Quote:
TORONTO (October 15, 2007): The National Hockey League Players’ Association (NHLPA) Executive Board, which consists of the 30 Player Representatives, held a conference call on Monday evening during which Paul Kelly was nominated for the position of NHLPA Executive Director. The Executive Board will immediately conduct a secret ballot vote.

The NHLPA’s constitution requires that the Executive Director be elected by a majority of the members of the Executive Board. This process will be completed by October 23, 2007.
http://www.nhlpa.com/MediaReleases/R...-FBA36D4DD0C8}

Yes, Andrew, 5 of your fellow constituents formed the search committee and with help from Reilly Partners - (i.e. Dave Poulin) came to agreement Kelly was the right man for the job... (ahem... cough alledgedly cough)... but unfortunately for your sake and your misguidedness those 5 didn't hold the sole voting powers. Yes, they were charged with the recommendation but it still had to go in front of the majority.

Quote:
TORONTO (October 24, 2007): The National Hockey League Players’ Association (NHLPA) today announced that Paul V. Kelly has been named as its new Executive Director. The search process, conducted by a five-member committee of NHLPA members and the executive search firm Reilly Partners of Chicago, culminated with the introduction of Kelly at today’s media conference in Toronto...

The selection of Mr. Kelly by the members of the NHLPA brings conclusion to a comprehensive process that saw Reilly Partners, an executive search firm based in Chicago, Illinois and the five-member search committee of current NHLPA members including Mike Cammalleri (L.A. Kings), Chris Chelios (Detroit Red Wings), Shawn Horcoff (Edmonton Oilers), Eric Lindros (UFA), and Robyn Reghr (Calgary Flames), examine hundreds of potential candidates before unanimously recommending Paul Kelly to the membership.

“During the review and consultation period of this search, Paul Kelly’s name kept coming back to the top of the list as the prime candidate to take us forward,” said Shawn Horcoff of the Edmonton Oilers. “A number of highly qualified candidates were evaluated and interviewed, but at the end of the process, we were unanimous in selecting Paul as the candidate to take back to the membership. His tremendous legal credentials, in addition to his past involvement with players and our Association, really stood out.”
http://www.nhlpa.com/MediaReleases/R...-6FB52B0A3003}

Maybe at this point, Ference should just ask Chia to trade him to Toronto... then all Burkie has to do is swing a deal with the Blues to get Boyes over there and then they, along with Komisarek and Stajan, can just conduct PA meetings out of the Leafs locker room from here on out, you know, go "green"... to save on expenditures such as travel (even though it would be only .2 km difference), electricity, office space, etc. I'm sure Suzuki would be proud.


Last edited by Major4Boarding: 09-25-2009 at 02:21 AM.
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Old
09-25-2009, 11:53 AM
  #424
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Wait - have we learned something new or did Paul Kelly still go behind their backs and order transcripts that he was denied access to by his employer (twice)?
''Guys that say, 'Oh, you need to have everybody vote on something that big,' well, we had five guys voting on hiring [Kelly],'' Ference told Shinzawa. ''I didn't hear too many guys complaining about the process of hiring him. We didn't have 740 guys vote on that.''

I suppose eventually someone will attempt to guess at a motive behind the nefarious activities of Andrew Ference. We've heard Crosby was pretty upset about Kelly's firing. I'll take a stab at it - Ference was just trying to get back at him for getting the best of him in their little scrap a couple years ago?
I haven't gone through every single post you have made in this thread, but if memory serves, you have made this point several time, that Kelly was wrong to get this info, while completely whitewashing the fact that in this same meeting, during the part where he was excluded, the players "reviewing" him also saw fit while they had a moment to give a very high-ranking person a 5 year deal without the ED involved. Either you are too stupid to see the problem(which I don't think you are), or you are being intellecutally dishonest by completely ignoring that fact.

Either way, there is very little in terms of credibility with Ference et al.

Ference is getting played like a violin.

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09-25-2009, 12:38 PM
  #425
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Kelly informed the NHLPA exec comm that he had accessed the information he shouldn't have. (Nothing I read/heard of what was made public *how* that happened, just that it did.)

And nothing known of what he did with the information, if anything once he saw it.

Reading Moneyplayers (slow process, only about a chapter a day at lunch). Very interesting reading the history of Eagleson, Goodenow. (Eagleson was essentially in the pocket of the NHLPA, especially BOG pres Wirtz and NHL pres Ziegler. The players got steamrolled until Godenow took over -- to Eagleson's chagrin and way underestimated by Eagleson and NHL.)

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