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Some things MacT could've did to maybe stem the tide

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Old
04-03-2004, 11:36 PM
  #1
Matts
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Some things MacT could've did to maybe stem the tide

We have all summer to debate how bad or good he is but even though he's on the road he has to find a way to get someone else out besides Nedved against the Morrison line. Seemed like the perfect time for PHBalanced to go out and shut down the Dys top line.

Would've taken some juggling but it still could've been done.

Also, I floated this idea during the 5-4 win over Nashville and that was to change goalies in mid-stream. It was evident right off the bat, well not really I guess because he did stop Rucinksy that Ty didn't have it. He should've never started the second period. He could've had the whole summer to massage his ego if need be.

It was fitting that the Oilers gave up one more road PK goal. It was fitting that Dvorak muffed one more great scoring chance late in the third. Like I said, I like the guy but he's no less of a goal scoring clutz than is/was Todd Marchant. I don't know what in gawd's name happened the year he scored 30.

Disappointing to see Smyth couldn't have an impact and I do love Moreau's 20 goals but his line didn't do a thing after the Nashville game. The balance ran out at the end I guess.

Very poor way to end it and despite the great run it's still only 36 wins and 89 points.

Some things need to be addressed though I think one huge one already has and that's Tommy being gone even though Conklin flopped tonight

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04-03-2004, 11:42 PM
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I don't think any goalie in the league would have stopped that third goal. It was one of those Sakic/Naslund/Iginla shots that guys like Keane (pluggers) pull off once a season. He picked the top corner perfectly.

This was by far Nedved's worst game as an Oiler, he basically handed Morrison the puck after Brewer made a very gutsy play to drop on the first chance. Brewer got caught in no-mans land, and it was a pretty good screen.

I'd like to see this team together next year, just to see an Oilers team that isn't trying to cope with losses to it's top 6 yet again.

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04-03-2004, 11:48 PM
  #3
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There were some nice things to come out of this year (Torres, Bergeron), but center ice was as complete disaster for much of the season and Tommy Gun cast too long a shadow on the season.

I hope the Oilers have a little more skill among their top 12 forwards next time.

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04-03-2004, 11:50 PM
  #4
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Yeah you're probably right

but what about the 4-1 goal and it could've been something just to swing momentum.

And man is there anyone with fewer goals but more golden chances than RD? It's just sick

As for Nedved, he is what he is. I have the feeling he's the guy who could do a good job piling up on weaker teams but not the better teams. Just a hunch though

BUT yeah poor night from Petr but he should'n't have bee out there against that line after the first.

That's on MacT

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04-03-2004, 11:55 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matts
but what about the 4-1 goal and it could've been something just to swing momentum.

And man is there anyone with fewer goals but more golden chances than RD? It's just sick

As for Nedved, he is what he is. I have the feeling he's the guy who could do a good job piling up on weaker teams but not the better teams. Just a hunch though

BUT yeah poor night from Petr but he should'n't have bee out there against that line after the first.

That's on MacT
Well, like I said, it was a screen shot, and those always suck.

Talk about crappy luck, Nedved puts one right through Clout's legs and it just bounces wide.... and just shortly after Torres gets his penalty. That could have really changed the game.

It's tough to get line matchups when you are the visitors, and it's tough to get them all the time. Smyth's line was out against the Morrison line alot too, but when you have first change it's impossible to get your matchup all the time.

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04-04-2004, 12:00 AM
  #6
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I don't think it's skill

Lowe let Tommy rot this team's chances from the inside out. He was making 3.9 mill yes. But he wasn't making $39 million either.

In any case next year we'll find out just how right anyone was who pinned the blame on Salo. I mean this was the 3rd poor start, at least in my estimation, in the 13 games since Tommy left. But he had so many poor starts before he was dealt.

So next year we'll find out why this team has all of a sudden sunk to the depth of also rans because this is the second time in three years of being out of the playoffs and Lowe can talk all he wants about wanting to rub it in the faces of those who questioned some of his decisions.

But the Oilers are out of the playoffs-again- so next year we'll find out if it's the netminding or if there's a big problem where this team falls apart every winter.

For my money, Lowe wears the horns not for the way the Comrie situation played out, because that's so far from being known even though we got nothing '04 tangible for him, but for bringing back Tommy.

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04-04-2004, 12:13 AM
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Matts, I simply don't get this.

Lowe has a guy who up until last season had a pretty good career, and if the Oilers had been playing against any other goalie than Belfour would have had a couple of series wins.

How do you just cut a guy off like that? Does it not look even worse if Conklin plays like crap and Salo has a great comeback year on another team? No, you can't win with sub .900 goaltending, but if you think back to last year, what did the Oilers have?

Markkanen's numbers suffered a much larger drop than Salo's from the season before (so maybe it wasn't just the goaltending), and they had a kid who never really found his AHL game until the 2nd round of the Calder playoffs.

What's more of a gamble, bringing back a guy you know and have watched do incredible things for your team, or go with 2 guys who you haven't seen do much of anything? It's not like the 2nd comings of Hasek and Roy were waiting in the wings, it was a pair of backup goalies who were entering their prime.

There also weren't too many goaltenders on the block this year, aside from Brent Johnson, so I am not sure what other realistic options there were.

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04-04-2004, 12:19 AM
  #8
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Well first off

I thought Salo was great in the playoffs in '99-01. The other two years, no not so much. Last year in Game Six, I mean that was terrible.

The reason why I can keep saying I wanted him turfed is because it isn't hindsight for me. Last year the final straw for me was the admittance by Lowe that Tommy needed to improve his work habits.

He was inconsistent in '01, great in '02 and then awful in '03. He was starting to unravel. The signs were there.

If you wanna cite other options then yeah that's a good point. There werne't any Hasek's out there but Tommy Salo wasn't any prize either

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04-04-2004, 12:24 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matts
I thought Salo was great in the playoffs in '99-01. The other two years, no not so much. Last year in Game Six, I mean that was terrible.

The reason why I can keep saying I wanted him turfed is because it isn't hindsight for me. Last year the final straw for me was the admittance by Lowe that Tommy needed to improve his work habits.

He was inconsistent in '01, great in '02 and then awful in '03. He was starting to unravel. The signs were there.

If you wanna cite other options then yeah that's a good point. There werne't any Hasek's out there but Tommy Salo wasn't any prize either
Get the ******* off of the Salo thing already. This team tried to make the playoffs without having a #1 or #2 Center for about 60 games.

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04-04-2004, 12:29 AM
  #10
get yer Aivazoff
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What's the problem? All I see is:


Quote:
This message is hidden because Matts is on your ignore list.
Ahhhhh.... sweet relief.

.

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04-04-2004, 12:44 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matts
So next year we'll find out why this team has all of a sudden sunk to the depth of also rans because this is the second time in three years of being out of the playoffs and Lowe can talk all he wants about wanting to rub it in the faces of those who questioned some of his decisions.
give your head a shake matts. we haven't "sunk to the depth of also rans" because we've missed the playoffs twice in the last three years. if anything i feel more positive about this teams future than at any point in the recent past. we have lots of young talent in the nhl, on the farm and still in junior. we've got 2 first round draft choices this june. we've got alot of affordable talent an no one due for a huge increase in salary next year. most importantly, we've made it to the war of 04 in relatively good shape if we get a favorable cba so i'm very optimistic. if we can somehow keep nedved or make a trade to get a legitimate first line centre, if mab's maturation was a sign of things to come and not a flash in the pan and if conks and markannen can carry the load like they did down the stretch (tonight not withstanding) then we're in pretty good shape.

sinking to the depth of also ran infers that we've fallen off the face of the earth like the rangers, washington, chicago etc. with no prospects of improvement any time soon. the oil missed the playoffs twice but were in the race until the last 2 or 3 days of the season in both cases.

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04-04-2004, 01:18 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by get yer Aivazoff
What's the problem? All I see is:




Ahhhhh.... sweet relief.

.
AGREE!!

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04-04-2004, 10:18 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matts
I thought Salo was great in the playoffs in '99-01. The other two years, no not so much. Last year in Game Six, I mean that was terrible.
I know it isn't much consolation, but after that goal from the corner I thought he had a very good game, and did come up with some big saves as the Oilers were trying to fight back.

Quote:
The reason why I can keep saying I wanted him turfed is because it isn't hindsight for me. Last year the final straw for me was the admittance by Lowe that Tommy needed to improve his work habits.
But Lowe also said that about other players as well, not just Salo.

Quote:
He was inconsistent in '01, great in '02 and then awful in '03. He was starting to unravel. The signs were there.
He was inconsistant his whole career... Even in his good seasons he would have 3 or 4 7+ game stretches where he was simply unbeatable, and either average or poor the rest of the time. Even last year, the only difference was that he only had the two stretches, as opposed to the three.

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04-04-2004, 12:11 PM
  #14
Mizral
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Sometimes the truth hurts.

Matts is absolutely right. Salo was the reason this team didn't make the playoffs this year, and I don't think either Markkanen or Conklin is an improvement over Salo in any area but salary.

To say that Lowe could not have picked up a Martin Gerber, Mathieu Garon, or Mika Noronen out there is just being flat out blind. Lowe had plenty of opportunities in the last *TWO YEARS* to get another goaltender rather than Salo, but he didn't. He stuck with Salo. Didn't pay off.

As for Salo being great in the past, there was never a point in Salo's career where I ever felt he was 100% solid. I guess the way I've viewed him is similar to how some of you guys might view Dan Cloutier. He has his moments, but he has serious flaws to his game. For Salo, he has never improved the mental side of the game, and because of that, his confidence has eroded to the point where I don't know if he'll be in the NHL much longer.

Lowe didn't see it like we did, and it cost him the playoffs. 1st/2nd centre or not, the goaltender is the most important position in hockey, and the Oilers had arguably the worst starting goaltender in the NHL (or close to it.. maybe Caron in Pittsburgh is worse, as well as possibly Boucher in Phoenix, though they had Burke for the bulk of the year) for a very long period of the season in Tommy Salo.

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04-04-2004, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
Sometimes the truth hurts.

Matts is absolutely right. Salo was the reason this team didn't make the playoffs this year, and I don't think either Markkanen or Conklin is an improvement over Salo in any area but salary.

To say that Lowe could not have picked up a Martin Gerber, Mathieu Garon, or Mika Noronen out there is just being flat out blind. Lowe had plenty of opportunities in the last *TWO YEARS* to get another goaltender rather than Salo, but he didn't. He stuck with Salo. Didn't pay off.

As for Salo being great in the past, there was never a point in Salo's career where I ever felt he was 100% solid. I guess the way I've viewed him is similar to how some of you guys might view Dan Cloutier. He has his moments, but he has serious flaws to his game. For Salo, he has never improved the mental side of the game, and because of that, his confidence has eroded to the point where I don't know if he'll be in the NHL much longer.

Lowe didn't see it like we did, and it cost him the playoffs. 1st/2nd centre or not, the goaltender is the most important position in hockey, and the Oilers had arguably the worst starting goaltender in the NHL (or close to it.. maybe Caron in Pittsburgh is worse, as well as possibly Boucher in Phoenix, though they had Burke for the bulk of the year) for a very long period of the season in Tommy Salo.
So what exactly has Cloutier accomplished behind a superior Vancouver team (compared to Edmonton) in the past 4 years?

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04-04-2004, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
Sometimes the truth hurts.

Matts is absolutely right. Salo was the reason this team didn't make the playoffs this year, and I don't think either Markkanen or Conklin is an improvement over Salo in any area but salary.
Look at the stats. While you're at it, look at Bergeron's stats. Maybe then you will learn something


.

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04-04-2004, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windowlicker
So what exactly has Cloutier accomplished behind a superior Vancouver team (compared to Edmonton) in the past 4 years?
windowlicker - that was my point. Cloutier is the same way. Looks good from time to time, but when the chips are down, Cloutier has failed in the past.

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04-04-2004, 12:42 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rage
Look at the stats. While you're at it, look at Bergeron's stats. Maybe then you will learn something


.
What stats? Salo's 2.58 GAA or .879 save percentage?

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04-04-2004, 01:14 PM
  #19
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Well

Lowe could've went out and got another netminder. Sutter did when he realized how bad Turek was he.

He didn't pull the woe is me act\

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04-04-2004, 01:39 PM
  #20
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There isn't a playoff team in this league that would have Horcoff on their top 2 lines.Lowe should have done something around the Heritage classic to address this problem.Even though I like Smith his time in Edmonton may be coming to an end at 3 million.The one guy I would like to see the Oil pick up that is a UFA is Tverdovsky.

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04-04-2004, 01:54 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by copperaddict
There isn't a playoff team in this league that would have Horcoff on their top 2 lines.Lowe should have done something around the Heritage classic to address this problem.Even though I like Smith his time in Edmonton may be coming to an end at 3 million.The one guy I would like to see the Oil pick up that is a UFA is Tverdovsky.
Ugh, Tverdovsky? Bite your tongue!

I think Tverdovsky's talent is slipping, not to mention any semblence of defensive awareness. Truely, Andy Delmore might be better than that guy!

As for Horcoff, I could make a case for maybe the Blues having him up there as a winger, or maybe the Preds as a 2nd line C since Zholtok isn't doing much. But you're right, the top end spots up the middle is a problem. Hopefully they can resign Nedved to a reasonable amount. But if they do, where does that leave Reasoner/Horcoff/Stoll in the last 2 spots? Or will they move York to the wing permanently? I personally hope they don't, I like York much more up the middle.

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04-04-2004, 01:56 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matts
Lowe could've went out and got another netminder. Sutter did when he realized how bad Turek was he.

He didn't pull the woe is me act\
To be fair, Matts, I heard lots of rumours about a goaltender coming to Edmonton all season, so maybe he was trying, but didn't pull the trigger. Not a complete excuse mind you.

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04-04-2004, 04:56 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
Sometimes the truth hurts.

Matts is absolutely right. Salo was the reason this team didn't make the playoffs this year, and I don't think either Markkanen or Conklin is an improvement over Salo in any area but salary.
Maybe, maybe not, but is that tandem any worse than Cloutier/Hedberg? I don't think so.

Quote:
To say that Lowe could not have picked up a Martin Gerber, Mathieu Garon, or Mika Noronen out there is just being flat out blind. Lowe had plenty of opportunities in the last *TWO YEARS* to get another goaltender rather than Salo, but he didn't. He stuck with Salo. Didn't pay off.
Like who? Do you think Montreal was going to trade Garon? They weren't, and if you think they would or will, you might want to stop posting, because you have no clue about what you are talking about. The 3 goalies you mentioned weren't going to be traded (Anaheim still needs a backup), so how can they pick up a guy like that? Who were the goaltenders available the past 2 seasons?

Osgood, Johnson, Kolzig. Kolzig being the only one who is a true upgrade to Salo, but he costs $6mil, and the price for his services would have been rather high prospect wise. Aside from those 3, who else?

Gerber was a backup in Anaheim, why would they trade him, they have a need he fills. Garon? What kind of an idiot trades a good young goalie like that this early in their career? Norronen wasn't going anywhere either, as Buffalo likes their Biron/Norronen tandem and it nearly got them into the playoffs this season.

As for Salo being great in the past, there was never a point in Salo's career where I ever felt he was 100% solid. I guess the way I've viewed him is similar to how some of you guys might view Dan Cloutier. He has his moments, but he has serious flaws to his game. For Salo, he has never improved the mental side of the game, and because of that, his confidence has eroded to the point where I don't know if he'll be in the NHL much longer.

Quote:
Lowe didn't see it like we did, and it cost him the playoffs. 1st/2nd centre or not, the goaltender is the most important position in hockey, and the Oilers had arguably the worst starting goaltender in the NHL (or close to it.. maybe Caron in Pittsburgh is worse, as well as possibly Boucher in Phoenix, though they had Burke for the bulk of the year) for a very long period of the season in Tommy Salo.
How do you know how he saw it? Maybe Salo was his best option at the time. If you can't trade a guy, you have to buy him out or waive him. $3.9 mil is a hell of a lot to swallow, and if you can't find anything you might as well see if he can make a comeback. If Lowe drops him and Salo has a bounce-back year, <b>you</b> would be complaining what a stupid move it was that Lowe let him go.

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04-04-2004, 05:21 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
Maybe, maybe not, but is that tandem any worse than Cloutier/Hedberg? I don't think so.
What does that have to do with this? Cloutier and Hedberg both suck, I already know that Dawgbone. Try to stick to the topic at hand. You're reaching.

Quote:
Like who? Do you think Montreal was going to trade Garon? They weren't, and if you think they would or will, you might want to stop posting, because you have no clue about what you are talking about. The 3 goalies you mentioned weren't going to be traded (Anaheim still needs a backup), so how can they pick up a guy like that? Who were the goaltenders available the past 2 seasons?
Sure, they would have moved Garon in the right deal. In fact, Garon was one of the guys rumoured to be on the block for Les Habitants at the deadline.

Quote:
Osgood, Johnson, Kolzig. Kolzig being the only one who is a true upgrade to Salo, but he costs $6mil, and the price for his services would have been rather high prospect wise. Aside from those 3, who else?
Osgood? What made you think he was going anywhere/ Johnson sucks and Kolzig is too expensive. But there have been other options in the last two years.

Quote:
Gerber was a backup in Anaheim, why would they trade him, they have a need he fills. Garon? What kind of an idiot trades a good young goalie like that this early in their career? Norronen wasn't going anywhere either, as Buffalo likes their Biron/Norronen tandem and it nearly got them into the playoffs this season.
Dawgbone,

Gerber will be 30 in September this year. He's good, but he's not *that* young. Biron was playing like a wild-man down the stretch, and if you ask most Buffalo Sabres fans, Mika Noronen was most definetly on the table, especially with rookie Ryan Miller in the pipeline.

You also failed to mention all the goalies that have been traded or acquired as free agents in the last while I noticed. Mikka Kiprusoff is just the tip of the iceberg of starting goaltenders acquired in the last two years, Dawgbone.

Quote:
How do you know how he saw it? Maybe Salo was his best option at the time. If you can't trade a guy, you have to buy him out or waive him. $3.9 mil is a hell of a lot to swallow, and if you can't find anything you might as well see if he can make a comeback. If Lowe drops him and Salo has a bounce-back year, <b>you</b> would be complaining what a stupid move it was that Lowe let him go.
Again, dawgbone, you're thinking with your heart not with your head. If Salo was his best option at the time, why did he move Markkanen who I'm sure you would agree is better than Salo considering the salary. Heck, you might even say that he's better in terms of pure gameplay than Salo. So right there there's one option Lowe had, but he moved Markkanen at the beginning of the year instead.

And as Lowe prooved, he was able to move Salo - mind you he was a UFA. However, what would have been so wrong with buying Salo out two years ago and running Markkanen/Conklin then? Save a bunch of money and get probobly similar goaltending. Or, imagine, moving Philly's 1st for a big improvement at goal and using Markkanen at backup. The Oilers had options. Buying Salo out was just one of them.

Your last sentence is an assumption, how do you know that, dawgbone?

Everything you've said to me has come from the standpoint that Lowe can do no wrong, and that smacks of homerism. Everyone is a bit of a homer, but being a homer about a GM is a fruitless excersize. Don't you think it's slightly fair to criticize Lowe's handling of the goaltending considering in the last two years, the Oilers GAA has been near the bottom of the league? And that the Oilers have been spending about $4.5 - 5 million dollars per year on said goaltending? Lowe deserves at least SOME criticism for that, and if you can't see it - if you truely believe Lowe did everything he could as a GM to improve the goaltending situation, or that nothing else was possible to improve since nothing else was available.. well, I'd just like you to take a look a couple hundred clicks south of you and check out what the GM in Calgary has done. He did what Lowe could not do. And he's taken the Flames to the playoffs because of it.

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04-04-2004, 06:47 PM
  #25
The Rage
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
What stats? Salo's 2.58 GAA or .879 save percentage?
Yes, good job. Now go look at Conklin's and Markanen's stats. You'll see they're far superior to Salo's.

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