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Which current roster has the most Hall of Famers?

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04-04-2004, 12:11 AM
  #1
MiamiScreamingEagles
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Which current roster has the most Hall of Famers?

Which NHL team's current roster has the most future Hall of Famers based solely on what they have accomplished. Meaning, do not count players with potential or who are on the genesis of superstardom like Pavel Datsyuk.

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04-04-2004, 12:20 AM
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Detroit has Hull, Yzerman, Shanahan, Hasek, Lidstrom, Chelios, Cujo

Toronto has Niewy, Sundin, Mogilny, Leetch, Francis, Belfour

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04-04-2004, 12:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walknucklers
Detroit has Hull, Yzerman, Shanahan, Hasek, Lidstrom, Chelios, Cujo

Toronto has Niewy, Sundin, Mogilny, Leetch, Francis, Belfour
Cujo is no hall of famer.

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04-04-2004, 12:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meehan
Cujo is no hall of famer.
Fine, then you can replace Cujo with none other than Mr. Mike Illitch-already a Hall of Famer.

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04-04-2004, 12:48 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walknucklers
Detroit has Hull, Yzerman, Shanahan, Hasek, Lidstrom, Chelios, Cujo

Toronto has Niewy, Sundin, Mogilny, Leetch, Francis, Belfour
So basically its whatever the oldest teams in the league are. Original 6 pride

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04-04-2004, 12:52 AM
  #6
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Sakic, Forsberg, Blake

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04-04-2004, 01:00 AM
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It's pretty much just Toronto, Colorado, and Detroit with more than one HOFer. Maybe NJ with Stevens and Brodeur. Other than that, there's just teams with one future HOFer.

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04-04-2004, 01:01 AM
  #8
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Toronto and Detroit are at the top.

How many are actually going in as members of that team though? Shanny, Yzerman, and Lidstrom for Detroit for sure(Chelios maybe). Only Sundin for Toronto.

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04-04-2004, 01:02 AM
  #9
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Originally Posted by Mack
Sakic, Forsberg, Blake
Well you can make a case for Foote I bet and then Tanguay and Hejduk if they continue to progress the way they do.

Well Selanne and Kariya aren't write in and they are fringe kind of like Cujo but I think they could end up on the ballot. It would actually be kind of like the Richter thing.

 
Old
04-04-2004, 01:04 AM
  #10
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Flyers got Recchi and possibly JR, but you wanted current retire tommorow = HOF guys.

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04-04-2004, 01:14 AM
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Depends on where the bar is set. It keeps on getting lower.

In my opinion, the HoF should be reserved for the best of the best. Guys who left a notable mark on the game. Just being a 'star' isn't enough, this has to be a star among stars. Guys with impressive resumes that include individual accomplishments, awards and/or team success.

A guy like CuJo is no HoFer. He never represented the best at his position at any point in his career. No trophies, no awards, just some decent career statistics (even they are not all that impressive). His case pales in comparison to a legit HoF player like Hasek.

IMO (and ignoring 'gimmickee' entries)

Anaheim- 1: Fedorov
Atlanta- 0
Boston- 0
Buffalo- 0
Calgary- 1: Iginla (barring a career flame-out)
Carolina- 0
Chicago- 0
Colorado- 5: Sakic, Forsberg, Blake, Selanne, Kariya
Columbus- 0
Dallas- 2: Modano, Lehtinen
Detroit- 7:Yzerman, Hatcher, Hasek, Shanahan, Hull, Chelios, Lidstrom
Edmonton- 1: Oates
Florida- 0
LA- 0
Minnesota- 0
Montreal- 0
Nashville- 0
New Jersey- 3: Brodeur, Stevens, Larionov
New York Islanders- 0
New York Rangers- Bure, Messier, Jagr, Richter (US HoF for certain)
Ottawa- 0
Philadelphia- : 0 (several US HoFers though...)
Phoenix- 0
Pittsburgh- 1: Mario
San Jose- 0
St. Louis- 3: McInnis, Pronger, Tkachuk
Tampa Bay- 0
Toronto- 3: Francis, Leetch, Belfour
Vancouver- 2: Naslund, Bertuzzi
Washington- 0

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04-04-2004, 01:20 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Handsome B. Wonderful
Toronto and Detroit are at the top.

How many are actually going in as members of that team though? Shanny, Yzerman, and Lidstrom for Detroit for sure(Chelios maybe). Only Sundin for Toronto.
Detroit wins, hands down.

I would give Colorado before Toronto though.

Sakic and Forsberg are locks. Blake, Selanne and Kariya are good bets. Foote has a chance, as do Hejduk and Tanguay.

For Toronto, only Francis, Leetch and Belfour are locks. After that, it gets dicey.
Nolan- inconsistent career, hasn't won anything.
Mogliny- had some outstanding seasons, some bad ones. Never won anything.
Sundin- Steady star, but never a league leader or major trophy winner.
Niewendyk-Won some Cups and the Smyth, but never a stand-out.
Johansson- Best shot is due to his nationality.

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04-04-2004, 01:25 AM
  #13
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if Linden wins the conn smythe this year (and the Canucks win the cup) then I think you could put up a strong case for him.. but a lot of people will disagree with me based on his relatively low statistical production

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04-04-2004, 01:29 AM
  #14
Superfluous U
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There aren't a whole lot around based on what they've already accomplished. Some guys who may do enough to get there (Bertuzzi, Iginla, Naslund), some guys who are fringe (Kariya, JR, Selanne) and some who its too early to tell (Kovalchuk, Datsyuk). As far as guys who would go in if they retired tomorrow, Detroit has the most. The Leafs definately have 4 on their roster, probably 5 or 6, but Detroit has 6 guys who are locks.


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04-04-2004, 01:33 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmad
if Linden wins the conn smythe this year (and the Canucks win the cup) then I think you could put up a strong case for him.. but a lot of people will disagree with me based on his relatively low statistical production
I think there are a lot of guys in the league with far better HOF credentials. One Conn Smythe does not a HOF career make. Bill Ranford won a Conn Smythe (Goalie, so a little different, but still). Linden's numbers simply do not make him a hall of famer, no matter how nice a guy he is.

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04-04-2004, 01:38 AM
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Hey, I just keep thinking of more things to mention! Daryl Shilling, who posts here from time to time, put up a purely numerical basis for determining HOF credentials here under The Hall of Fame Debate, Part 2 - Hall of Fame Standards. It made a lot of sense when I read through it, and if anyone has the time and energy, they could go through the selections people have made and check how they fair.

Edit: My mistake, I forgot he doesn't list his computation method on the page.


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04-04-2004, 07:56 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCD
Depends on where the bar is set. It keeps on getting lower.

In my opinion, the HoF should be reserved for the best of the best. Guys who left a notable mark on the game. Just being a 'star' isn't enough, this has to be a star among stars. Guys with impressive resumes that include individual accomplishments, awards and/or team success.

A guy like CuJo is no HoFer. He never represented the best at his position at any point in his career. No trophies, no awards, just some decent career statistics (even they are not all that impressive). His case pales in comparison to a legit HoF player like Hasek.

IMO (and ignoring 'gimmickee' entries)

Colorado- 5: Sakic, Forsberg, Blake, Selanne, Kariya
Dallas- 2: Modano, Lehtinen
Detroit- 7:Yzerman, Hatcher, Hasek, Shanahan, Hull, Chelios, Lidstrom
Philadelphia- : 0 (several US HoFers though...)
St. Louis- 3: McInnis, Pronger, Tkachuk
Toronto- 3: Francis, Leetch, Belfour
Vancouver- 2: Naslund, Bertuzzi
With the downward spiral of Selanne's career I don't think he should make it unless his career turns around.

Kariya also needs to get his career revved up again to become a HoFer IMO.

Lehtinen has the 3 Selke's, but that still shouldn't be enough to get him close to the HoF IMO.

I can't see Derien Hatcher making the Hall of Fame, and I don't think it should be close really. If Hatcher does get in that opens the door for a number of others, especially Adam Foote, who I believe has been better than Hatcher.

Naslund needs 2 or 3 more big years, if he doesn't go back to Sweden soon he should be in good shape.

Bertuzzi would need 5-6 more big years, he's not close at the moment.

If Modano and Tkachuk are on the list, Roenick has to be there.

Other snubs that I saw: Mark Recchi & Mats Sundin

From 1990 - present, Recchi is 3rd in the NHL in points.

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04-04-2004, 08:03 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meehan
Cujo is no hall of famer.
actually he is. 408 wins, quite a few 30 win seasons and playoff appearences (and we're not talking one and done he's been to a few conference finals). That's not too bad.


Winning the Stanley Cup is NOT a requirement for making the hall of fame. while he is getting older, and considering that isn't all that far behind Sawchuk, and only ONE guy has 500 wins. Not only is Cujo a hall of famer, he is a LOCK.

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04-04-2004, 08:24 AM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson
actually he is. 408 wins, quite a few 30 win seasons and playoff appearences (and we're not talking one and done he's been to a few conference finals). That's not too bad.

Winning the Stanley Cup is NOT a requirement for making the hall of fame. while he is getting older, and considering that isn't all that far behind Sawchuk, and only ONE guy has 500 wins. Not only is Cujo a hall of famer, he is a LOCK.
No he's not.

A Stanley Cup is not a necessity for a skater, but for a goalie, it's almost needed.

If you're a goalie and haven't won the Cup and haven't even gotten you team to a Satnley Cup Finals, you had better have a number of individual trophies on your mantle.

CuJo has never won a Vezina Trophy or a Jennings.
CuJo has never been named to either the 1st or 2nd all-star teams.

Compare that to the exception to the rule (non-Stanley Cup winning goalies in the Hall of Fame)

Tony Esposito
Calder Trophy
Three Vezina Trophies
First team all-star three times
Second team all-star two times

Eddie Giacomin
Vezina Trophy
First team all-star two times
Second team all-star three times


Cujo NEEDS a Cup win to get him consideration, as he hasn't been even one of the 5 best goalies of his generation.

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04-04-2004, 08:46 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
With the downward spiral of Selanne's career I don't think he should make it unless his career turns around.
Don't let the last 3 years erase the previous 10. Selanne was one of the most dangerous goalscorers of his era, setting the rookie record in the process. His numbers and performance are Hall-worthy. Even if he only has 150+ points for the last 3 years. Messier's late career performances stink, but do not impact his credentials.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
Kariya also needs to get his career revved up again to become a HoFer IMO.
I think his resume stands as-is. He could play another 5-10 years, but already has 700+ points. He has been one of the games elite for his entire career.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
Lehtinen has the 3 Selke's, but that still shouldn't be enough to get him close to the HoF IMO.
Lehtinen is the closest thing to Bob Gainey in the league today. He is an amazing shut-down caliber defensive player who still chips in more than his share of points. IMO, he doesn't get the respect he deserves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
I can't see Derien Hatcher making the Hall of Fame, and I don't think it should be close really. If Hatcher does get in that opens the door for a number of others, especially Adam Foote, who I believe has been better than Hatcher.
I am biased here, I like Hatcher. I see him as the modern day Bob Clarke. IMO, Hatcher is a better player than Foote. He has more of 'a presence' on the ice and plays more of a leadership role. Admittedly though, his resume is light with but a single Cup for awards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
Naslund needs 2 or 3 more big years, if he doesn't go back to Sweden soon he should be in good shape.
If he retires today, it could be close. I give him the benefit of the doubt because he has many potentiall highly productive seasons ahead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
Bertuzzi would need 5-6 more big years, he's not close at the moment.
Bertuzzi is, and has been for a while now, the best Power Forward in the league. Even with the shorter shelf life of PFs, his impact and numbers should merit a look. I agree, this was one of my weaker cases.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
If Modano and Tkachuk are on the list, Roenick has to be there.
Disagree. Modano is a far better 2-way player (better at both ends), has had a more productive career and has gotten looks when the shiny trophies get tossed around.

Tkachuk was the dominant power forward of his era, and is still among the best. You can't measure a PF's impact on points alone. That a tough customer like him can lead the league in goals says a lot. I would vote for him over JR because I think Tkachuk brought more of a presence to the ice and was/is the more dominate player.

JR has had a great career compared to an average player, but is nothing special when placed in a room of stars. Good career numbers, but that is it. He is a lock for the American HoF, but I am not sold on his Hockey HoF credentials.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
Other snubs that I saw: Mark Recchi & Mats Sundin
Recchi- Love Recchi, but I honestly don't know it he had that intangible 'it' that made you think he was headed to the Hall. He had a knack for being on the right team at the right time, but he was rarely the best player on his squad. He played in the shadow of better talents for much of his career and doesn't have any individual accomplishments. Great career numbers and a Cup from Mario. I think he certainly has a shot, but if I was voting I wouldn't consider him a lock. I could change my mind, but he doesn't strike me as a guy that 10 years from now we will be telling people about how we got a chance to see him play.

Sundin- Similar to Roenick. Great career numbers, but never won anything or even got attention for awards. Being one of the highest scoring Europeans ever will be his strongest bid. He is great compared to regular players but don't think he has dinstinguished himself when compared to other star players. IMO (and I am not trying to start a flame war by any means), I think he gets more attention than he is due based on the team he plays for.

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04-04-2004, 08:51 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson
actually he is. 408 wins, quite a few 30 win seasons and playoff appearences (and we're not talking one and done he's been to a few conference finals). That's not too bad.


Winning the Stanley Cup is NOT a requirement for making the hall of fame. while he is getting older, and considering that isn't all that far behind Sawchuk, and only ONE guy has 500 wins. Not only is Cujo a hall of famer, he is a LOCK.
No chance.

A Cup isn't mandatory, but it sure helps. If you don't have a Cup, you best have a seriously strong case without it.

Does CuJo?

How many Vezinas? None. How many times was he even nominated?

How many Smyths (Hextall Style)? None. Never even played in a Stanley Cup final. Made it out of the first round only a handful of times.

Are his statistics jaw-dropping? No. Certainly good, but not all that impressive.

Most importantly, was his performance elite? Was he the player other goalies measured themselves by? No. Even at his zenith, he was no better than the 4th or 5th best in the league.

IMO, if Joseph makes it in it is more a statement about the declining standard than impressive individual merit.

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04-04-2004, 09:02 AM
  #22
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JR deserves it far more then Selanne.

Hell, Recchi's borderline (450 goals, 1200+ points, about 2 years left in him) and e's above Selanne as well. JR is going to be in the HoF.

JR and Selanne are the same age.

JR has 474 645 for 1119

Selanne has 452 499 for 951


And JR is the one that brings more to the table then just goal scoring with his physical play.

Really, I don't think it's close and while you're entitled to your opinion, your opinion is rather odd in this one. Selanne had about 4 really good years and they weren't all back to back even. JR's had the better career

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04-04-2004, 09:15 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCD
Don't let the last 3 years erase the previous 10. Selanne was one of the most dangerous goalscorers of his era, setting the rookie record in the process. His numbers and performance are Hall-worthy. Even if he only has 150+ points for the last 3 years. Messier's late career performances stink, but do not impact his credentials.

Messier had 15-18 great years. Selanne had 5 or 6, and missed the playoffs in almost all those years. Not enough IMO.


Kariya
I think his resume stands as-is. He could play another 5-10 years, but already has 700+ points. He has been one of the games elite for his entire career.

He's been talked about like he's been an elite player for his whole career, but I don't buy it. Just 4 above point-a-game years. 2 other point-per-game years. Misses the playoffs more than he makes it.

Lehtinen is the closest thing to Bob Gainey in the league today. He is an amazing shut-down caliber defensive player who still chips in more than his share of points. IMO, he doesn't get the respect he deserves.

He's got the awards to back it up, but IMO a bit overrated defensively. A great defensive winger does not have the importance of a great defensive center or defenseman. Not the most durable player in the league.

I am biased here, I like Hatcher. I see him as the modern day Bob Clarke. IMO, Hatcher is a better player than Foote. He has more of 'a presence' on the ice and plays more of a leadership role. Admittedly though, his resume is light with but a single Cup for awards.

Hatcher and Foote are close IMO, but I'd have them both fall short of the Hall. Clarke won a number of major awards including 3 Hart's.

Bertuzzi is, and has been for a while now, the best Power Forward in the league. Even with the shorter shelf life of PFs, his impact and numbers should merit a look. I agree, this was one of my weaker cases.

I thought he was on his way, but took a step back this year, not the dominant player he was the past two years. Needs at least 4-5 big years.


Disagree. Modano is a far better 2-way player (better at both ends), has had a more productive career and has gotten looks when the shiny trophies get tossed around.

Overall I think Modano and Roenick are basically even. Modano gets the slight edge due to the Cup win. Early in their career Roenick was a better player, he brought the physical presence in chicago that Modano has NEVER brought. Once Hitchcock arrived Modano became the better player. This year Roenick had again been the better player.

Tkachuk was the dominant power forward of his era, and is still among the best. You can't measure a PF's impact on points alone. That a tough customer like him can lead the league in goals says a lot. I would vote for him over JR because I think Tkachuk brought more of a presence to the ice and was/is the more dominate player.

I like Tkachuk more than most, and don't have a problem with him getting in. In my book Modano, Tkachuk and Roenick are all borderline at this point.


Recchi- Love Recchi, but I honestly don't know it he had that intangible 'it' that made you think he was headed to the Hall. He had a knack for being on the right team at the right time, but he was rarely the best player on his squad. He played in the shadow of better talents for much of his career and doesn't have any individual accomplishments. Great career numbers and a Cup from Mario. I think he certainly has a shot, but if I was voting I wouldn't consider him a lock. I could change my mind, but he doesn't strike me as a guy that 10 years from now we will be telling people about how we got a chance to see him play.

Agree that he's borderline, but I'll take his career over Selanne & Kariya's to this point. Speaking of that I'll take Lindros over Selanne and Kariya.

Sundin- Similar to Roenick. Great career numbers, but never won anything or even got attention for awards. Being one of the highest scoring Europeans ever will be his strongest bid. He is great compared to regular players but don't think he has dinstinguished himself when compared to other star players. IMO (and I am not trying to start a flame war by any means), I think he gets more attention than he is due based on the team he plays for.


Agree not a "lock" but on that same line with Recchi, Roenick, Modano and Tkachuk.

Again I'll take Sundin over Selanne and Kariya.

Another player you didn't mention and I forgot is Mogilny.

Mogliny had down years in Vancouver but has been a big time player for more than a decade and has also been a playoff performer.

Mogilny over Selanne and Kariya in a heartbeat
.


Last edited by John Flyers Fan: 04-04-2004 at 09:56 AM.
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04-04-2004, 09:53 AM
  #24
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Andyrchuck??

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04-04-2004, 10:51 AM
  #25
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Toronto or Detroit definatly wins it.


NJ has:

Brodeur
Stevens
Niedermayer (not incredibly likely, though he's hof calibur)


Bunch of potential Hall of famers if they play well for awhile.

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