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What if Lisin surprises?

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Old
09-02-2009, 05:21 PM
  #151
Musto
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at least having him on the pk strikes me as a possibility considering the style of pk will be different than last year. without betts and sjo blocking shots and the solid 2wayness of korpikoski gone the complexion has changed drastically.

i would expect more of a press to score shorthandedly this year. lisin could be useful at least in this capacity, especially if his 2way game improves.

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09-02-2009, 05:28 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by seanaveryhaircut View Post
at least having him on the pk strikes me as a possibility considering the style of pk will be different than last year. without betts and sjo blocking shots and the solid 2wayness of korpikoski gone the complexion has changed drastically.

i would expect more of a press to score shorthandedly this year. lisin could be useful at least in this capacity, especially if his 2way game improves.
so in addition to being a top line offensive talent, he kills penalties too!

even aggressive PK's need guys that can..ya know play defense.

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09-02-2009, 05:33 PM
  #153
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especially if his 2way game improves.

emphasis on this, captain obvioso

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09-02-2009, 05:33 PM
  #154
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Without knowing much about Lisin, I think he will put up 20 goals and 20 assists this year. Why? No reason... just a hunch.

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09-02-2009, 05:37 PM
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanaveryhaircut View Post
at least having him on the pk strikes me as a possibility considering the style of pk will be different than last year. without betts and sjo blocking shots and the solid 2wayness of korpikoski gone the complexion has changed drastically.

i would expect more of a press to score shorthandedly this year. lisin could be useful at least in this capacity, especially if his 2way game improves.
At the end of the day only a fool would have his PK play to score putting fast, offensive gifted players on their PK over strong, tough, checking, defensive responsible forwards.

In other words I would take a good defensive player with adequate offensive skills over the opposite on the PK. Even if they have exceptional offensive skills. Yes, Betts, Korps and Sjo are gone but we still have some good PK players (Not great though) but that's all you really need when you have an elite goalie in between the pipes....

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Old
09-04-2009, 10:26 AM
  #156
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If Gratchev plays at LW and Lisin plays at RW then ANisimov can play at Center

perfect an all Russian line

and it doesn't matter which # we put in front of them w/ 4 scoring dmen in Roz/Gilroy/Staal/Girardi--(maybe even Redden wakes up under Torts)
the depth is available to have at least 1 good passer scorer on each shift from the D

the key is to trim away the specialists from the rest of the roster.

the lineup lacks big forwards w/ speed ok even if Brashear has a renaissance and doubles his minutes/ per game avg thats what a whopping 12 minutes a night...

something has to change I see Brashear as a specialist in the matches against the Flyers/Isles/Devils and for the rest of the matches he sits in the pb the way K.Daneyko did at a a similar age while the NJD were winning.

regardless of lining up the lines the NYR have 5 quality grinders
avery, higgins,Rismiller,Callahan,Voros

4 quality snipers-Gaborik, Kotalik, Drury,maybe LIsin

2 playmakers--Prospal(even @ LW), and Anisimov

and 2 power forwards--Dubinsky(6'1/217) and Gratchev(6'3/220)

if Boyle can make a significant addition to the team full time he'd be the 3rd power fwd..but then again he also can play Defense. Boyle's biggest attribute is his raw athleticism but he's a blunt object for now and needs to be shaped into a true weapon either on the frontline or on the power play...I could see him as the next D.Byfuglien causing headaches on the PP or I could see him as the next specialist...

on a great team everybody has a role...but specialists aren't needed so for the biggest games...Brashear sits unless the flyers/njd/nyi are involved.

Prospal--Dubinsky--Gaborik

Drury--Boyle(surprise)--Kotalik

Higgins/Avery--Higgins/Avery--Callahan

Gratchev/Brashear--Anisimov--Lisin

----**keep in mind that I don't shut minutes down as the lines drop each of these lines is expected to play at least 15 minutes a match*

the key is in what capacity...I could see the 3rd line being a PK corps

and using both Boyle and Gratchev on PP for their size but somewhere you need a sniper and both Kotalik and Gaborik would be used more in that dept.

pp---Kotalik--Drury--Gaborik--Staal--Gilroy

Prospal--Dubinsky--Callahan--Redden--Roz


PK--I'm not sure but maybe something like this
Higgins-Dubinsky-Redden/Staal--Roz
Gratchev--Avery--Sauer/prospect/UFA--Girardi


the real weakness on the team is Defense even if THN is right and Gilroys' good for 45pts the team lacks size and toughness on Def outside of Michael Sauer who isn't quick enough to be an ideal top 3 right now.

as for the rest of the team...more power forwards are needed. Not sure why Sjostrom was let go as he'd be a good bet to pot 20 goals under a more offensive coach like Tortorella and wasn't expensive @900k.

but we'll see what happens

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Old
09-04-2009, 11:23 AM
  #157
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You don't often see the words Voros and quality in the same sentence.

Kotalik and Drury are quality snipers?

Sjostrom would have gotten 20 goals?

Are we playing fantasy hockey and we have disabled all the players on the other rosters?

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Old
09-07-2009, 05:29 PM
  #158
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Line combos

20 Prospal - 23 Drury - 10 Gaborik
16 Avery - 17 Dubinsky - 24 Callahan
21 Higgins - 42 Anisimov - 12 Kotalik
87 Brashear - 39 Arnason - 34 Voros
81 Lisin

18 Staal - 5 Girardi
6 Redden - 33 Rozsival
38 Potter - 97 Gllroy
56 Sauer

30 Lundqvist
40 Valiquette

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Old
09-07-2009, 06:14 PM
  #159
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I am not going to have any faith in Lisin UNTIL he actual produces. Until then I'm going to call him Zherdev V2. I actually liked Zherdev, but he got s**t on by the entire organization, and he would've been great on a line with Gaborik becuase of Z's great passsing skills. I have lost all optimism when it comes to projects with the Rangers, becuase they always fail.

To the poster a couple of spots above me, they aren't going to alternate Grachev and Brashear, they'd rather have Grachev play everyday in the minors then constantly alternating between sitting out and playing. Here would be my line combinations:

Higgins-Dubinsky-Gaborik
Prospal/Callahan-Drury-Kotalik
Prospal/Callahan-Animsov-Lisn
Avery-Boyle-Brashear

Staal-Rosival
Redden-Girardi
Sanguinetti-Sauer

Something like this, I didn't worry too much about the D combos. But if Grachev impresses enough I could see the lines going like this:

Higgins-Dubinsky-Gaborik
Callahan-Drury-Kotalik
Avery-Prospal/Anismov-Grachev/Lisin
Boyle-Anismov/Prospal-Brashear

All this can depend greatly on the play of Prospal, he could be on any of the lines based on how he is preforming.

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Old
09-07-2009, 06:25 PM
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericd View Post
20 Prospal - 23 Drury - 10 Gaborik
16 Avery - 17 Dubinsky - 24 Callahan
21 Higgins - 42 Anisimov - 12 Kotalik
87 Brashear - 39 Arnason - 34 Voros
81 Lisin

18 Staal - 5 Girardi
6 Redden - 33 Rozsival
38 Potter - 97 Gllroy
56 Sauer

30 Lundqvist
40 Valiquette
errrrr.... no

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Old
09-10-2009, 09:56 PM
  #161
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Lisin 'honored' to be part of the Rangers
Russian winger, obtained in trade, says he'll do whatever it takes to win.



"Rangers forward Enver Lisin is an interesting paradox. He is lighthearted and quick with a smile and a joke when he is off of the ice. But when Lisin is at work on the ice, he brings an intensity and passion to his craft that he hopes will catch the attention of the Rangers’ coaching staff when training camp opens up on Saturday......."


http://rangers.nhl.com/club/news.htm...id=nyr-home-dl




Great article, and love what the kid is saying:
"“I want to show them my effort and that I am willing to sacrifice for wins,” stated the 23-year-old Lisin, who was acquired by the Rangers from the Phoenix Coyotes this past summer in exchange for Lauri Korpikoski. “I will do whatever it takes to win every game, game after game. I will not stop working until 60 minutes, or 65 minutes, has passed.”"

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Old
09-10-2009, 10:21 PM
  #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericd View Post
20 Prospal - 23 Drury - 10 Gaborik
16 Avery - 17 Dubinsky - 24 Callahan
21 Higgins - 42 Anisimov - 12 Kotalik
87 Brashear - 39 Arnason - 34 Voros
81 Lisin

18 Staal - 5 Girardi
6 Redden - 33 Rozsival
38 Potter - 97 Gllroy
56 Sauer

30 Lundqvist
40 Valiquette
pretty terrible.

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Old
09-10-2009, 10:42 PM
  #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psykedout66 View Post
Lisin 'honored' to be part of the Rangers
Russian winger, obtained in trade, says he'll do whatever it takes to win.



"Rangers forward Enver Lisin is an interesting paradox. He is lighthearted and quick with a smile and a joke when he is off of the ice. But when Lisin is at work on the ice, he brings an intensity and passion to his craft that he hopes will catch the attention of the Rangers’ coaching staff when training camp opens up on Saturday......."


http://rangers.nhl.com/club/news.htm...id=nyr-home-dl




Great article, and love what the kid is saying:
"“I want to show them my effort and that I am willing to sacrifice for wins,” stated the 23-year-old Lisin, who was acquired by the Rangers from the Phoenix Coyotes this past summer in exchange for Lauri Korpikoski. “I will do whatever it takes to win every game, game after game. I will not stop working until 60 minutes, or 65 minutes, has passed.”"
I have been, and still am one of the few people here who thinks this kid will surprise A LOT of people here.

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Old
09-10-2009, 11:03 PM
  #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
I have been, and still am one of the few people here who thinks this kid will surprise A LOT of people here.
becareful. be very careful. they will find you and take you away for saying things like that.....


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Old
09-10-2009, 11:06 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
becareful. be very careful. they will find you and take you away for saying things like that.....

Ha! Let them come, I am ready. All of the arguments that have occurred here have been the people saying he isnt that good(who most of the time(not always) havent seen him play) calling out people who think he will be good(who most of the time havent seen him play(but not always)). I happen to have seen him play and I think he will be a good addition to this team.

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Old
09-11-2009, 02:54 AM
  #166
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Wow, looking at those lines is really depressing - no scoring anywhere. It will probably be at least a few seasons before kids like Grachev, Anisimov, Stepan, Bourque, Del Zotto, McDonagh and Lisin can start making a real impact.

Here are my thoughts on lines:

Dubinsky - Prospal - Gaborik
Lisin - Anisimov - Higgins
Callahan - Drury - Kotalik
Brashear - Boyle - Avery
Byers

Staal - Girardi
Redden - Gllroy
Del Zotto - Rozsival
Potter/Heikinen (one if HFD, one as #7)

30 Lundqvist
40 Valiquette

I know, my lines look crazy because I have -

Dubinsky on the wing
Anisimov and Lisin on the 2nd lines.
Avery on the 4th Line

My reasoning: I think Dubi should be developed in an Adam Graves mold. I think he is a 50-60 point producer. He is NOT really a playmaker. He should work on his shot and deflections and how to plant himself in front of the net on the PP. So, that's why the wing. But, if you are having issues with that, switch him with Prospal. But that's my 1st line.

My 2nd line is really by default. It is made up of merely potential and Higgins right now - nothing more. My only defense for this is that Drury's best seasons were with Kotalik on Buffalo's THIRD LINE. I think they are perfect there and anywhere else they will be asked to do more than they are capable - and thus fail - merely because of expectations put on them. Give anisimov, the boys with the scoring talent, the scoring jobs and let them grow into them.

As for Aves on the 4th line - this just looks bad on paper - i think the one strength of this team is all the interchangeable grit up front. Players like Avery, Higgins, Kotalik and Callahan can be shuffled at will. If one of them is playing poorly or is hurt, you just move the 10th forward up. Byers too. So, Avery on the 4th - not really, not for long. Keep in mind both Higgins and Avery have been known to wear down over a full season - they should be used to spell each other throughout the long grind.

Finally, on defense, I think Del Zotto really has a shot - because I believe everything the Rangers PR spoon feeds me.

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Old
09-11-2009, 03:37 AM
  #167
Cynical TyranT
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wow. glad you guys arent coaches. I wouldnt even use these lines in NHL 10.

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Old
09-11-2009, 03:41 AM
  #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
I have been, and still am one of the few people here who thinks this kid will surprise A LOT of people here.
If he makes the squad, no surprises here, if he makes top 2 lines, no surprises here.

He's the only one on the team who can match Gaborik's speed at all.

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Old
09-11-2009, 11:41 AM
  #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Lisins pro stats:

RSL:
116 GP
21 G
11 A
32 P

AHL:
70 GP
20 G
23 A
43 P

NHL
78 GP
18 G
10 A
28 P

Enver Lisin has not been what anyone could mistake as a dynamic offensive force at any level of hockey. Forgive us all if we are reluctact to drink the Kool-aid, but right now its evidence and common sense versus your word, which consists of generalities and blanket statements.
Forgive me, but using stats in this manner is the worst possible way of evaluating a player. You would be much better off watching more games.

Have you watched him play? I have and he is a dynamic offensive player. He scored 13 goals in 48 NHL games last year playing mostly on a line with Todd Fedoruk.

When he first came to America he knew about 5 words of English and was horribly homesick. He isn't an attitude problem but he had a big problem adjusting. That is not uncommon for young players of any nationality.

Check Dubinsky's AHL stats from before he joined the Rangers and they weren't all that exciting. He's turned out OK, hasn't he?

If Lisin accepts his defensive responsibilities and plays to his potential he will be a huge steal for this franchise.

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09-11-2009, 11:56 AM
  #170
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Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
Forgive me, but using stats in this manner is the worst possible way of evaluating a player. You would be much better off watching more games.

Have you watched him play? I have and he is a dynamic offensive player. He scored 13 goals in 48 NHL games last year playing mostly on a line with Todd Fedoruk

When he first came to America he knew about 5 words of English and was horribly homesick. He isn't an attitude problem but he had a big problem adjusting. That is not uncommon for young players of any nationality.

Check Dubinsky's AHL stats from before he joined the Rangers and they weren't all that exciting. He's turned out OK, hasn't he?

If Lisin accepts his defensive responsibilities and plays to his potential he will be a huge steal for this franchise.
All Im doing is pointing out that he hasnt been an offensive dynamo at ANY LEVEL of professional hockey. I, for one, think thats a much better way to evaluate a player than listening to you tell me hes going to be good because you've seen him play a few games.

Dubinsky's production was average in the lower levels and its average in the NHL. He's turned out OK because he is a MUCH more complete player than Lisin, who by every scouting report I've seen seems to need a roadmap to find the defensive zone.

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Old
09-11-2009, 12:24 PM
  #171
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At this point it will be a surprise if Lisin isn't a participant in the All Star Game.

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09-11-2009, 01:22 PM
  #172
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At this point it will be a surprise if Lisin isn't a participant in the All Star Game.
Woah, woah, woah. I never said he was going to be an all-star but I think he could put up 35-45 points playing on the 3rd line. His speed alone makes him a great asset for a forechecking style of play.

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Old
09-11-2009, 04:32 PM
  #173
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i will wager a bet.

if dubinsky and lisin both play the same number of minutes this season and both play similar pp minutes, who here doubts that lisin couldnt outscore dubinsky ?? i mean, callahan will probably outscore dubi.

any takers ?

i mean dubinsky went long stretches last season playing top minutes with top players last season and look pretty pedestrian. in fact, his scoring stats were just so-so.

dubinsky has average skills while lisin is blessed with top skills.

why is it so hard for some here to accept that?


Last edited by offdacrossbar: 09-11-2009 at 04:45 PM.
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Old
09-11-2009, 04:55 PM
  #174
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
i will wager a bet.

if dubinsky and lisin both play the same number of minutes this season and both play similar pp minutes, who here doubts that lisin couldnt outscore dubinsky ?? i mean, callahan will probably outscore dubi.

any takers ?

i mean dubinsky went long stretches last season playing top minutes with top players last season and look pretty pedestrian. in fact, his scoring stats were just so-so.

dubinsky has average skills while lisin is blessed with top skills.

why is it so hard for some here to accept that?
Because its just your opinion, and worst yet, theres zero evidence in Lisin's history to back up your assertation that hes this top notch offensive talent.

I would take you up on your bet if I thought for one second that Lisin would even approach the minutes Dubinsky plays.

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Old
09-11-2009, 04:56 PM
  #175
chosen
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
i will wager a bet.

if dubinsky and lisin both play the same number of minutes this season and both play similar pp minutes, who here doubts that lisin couldnt outscore dubinsky ?? i mean, callahan will probably outscore dubi.

any takers ?

i mean dubinsky went long stretches last season playing top minutes with top players last season and look pretty pedestrian. in fact, his scoring stats were just so-so.

dubinsky has average skills while lisin is blessed with top skills.

why is it so hard for some here to accept that?
I'll take the bet.

However, points scored by Lisin in the AHL, in Europe or in a beer league do not count.

What will be the excuse if Lisin doesn't get these minutes he so richly deserves? Will Lisin's Lads declare Torts to be an imbecile?

This is the mootest bet ever made but how could I resist?

I hope Lisin scores 50 goals but I always bet the percentages.

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