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Torrey Mitchell 3 years, 4.1 mil

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Old
08-30-2009, 11:55 PM
  #26
Kitten Mittons
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniper Archetype View Post
You're complaining about $300,000/year cap hit compared to what you want. It's not really significant. It'll be a steal next year so I'm not stressed.
Well, when you put it that way , I guess it really is a small fraction, even if he was offered 800k. But it is still about the principle...he could've offered 800k but offered 1.3mil - around 40% more - what kind of overapayment are we going to expect in 4 years? Or once time comes for Pavs and Seto?
I do admit it's an overreaction on my part.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
Henrik Karlsson G 1,325,000 UFA
Logan Couture C 1,270,833 1,270,833 RFA
Nick Petrecki D 1,125,000 1,125,000 1,125,000 RFA

What exactly have these guys earned?
I remember my jaw dropping when I saw these numbers before... so ridiculous.

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08-30-2009, 11:58 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
Henrik Karlsson G 1,325,000 UFA
Logan Couture C 1,270,833 1,270,833 RFA
Nick Petrecki D 1,125,000 1,125,000 1,125,000 RFA

What exactly have these guys earned?
None of those guys count against the cap and all of those numbers are totals including the bonuses and not their base rate which is standardized for the most part. All of those guys also have a secondary pay rate depending on where they play, I assume. I could be wrong though.

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08-30-2009, 11:58 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
I don't believe in paying someone for what they might do.
welcome to the salary cap and sports in general

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08-30-2009, 11:59 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
None of those guys count against the cap and all of those numbers are totals including the bonuses and not their base rate which is standardized for the most part. All of those guys also have a secondary pay rate depending on where they play, I assume. I could be wrong though.
Those numbers are their cap hit if they play in the NHL. Based on potential is my point. I don't see anything wrong with this contract. Could end up being a little high. Could end up being little low.

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Last edited by Led Zappa: 08-31-2009 at 12:07 AM.
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08-31-2009, 12:04 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Davidhye View Post
Well, when you put it that way , I guess it really is a small fraction, even if he was offered 800k. But it is still about the principle...he could've offered 800k but offered 1.3mil - around 40% more - what kind of overapayment are we going to expect in 4 years? Or once time comes for Pavs and Seto?
I do admit it's an overreaction on my part.
Who's to say he didn't and Torrey's camp turned it down? Where are you getting this figure from except from your own estimation of what the value should be based on your own views and what's been expressed on these boards? It's one thing for fans on a message board to assess what they believe fair market value is for a player. it's another thing entirely to know what that real value is in the NHL.

I'm not defending all of DW's moves here. I'm defending this one because it's a good contract for a guy who does everything right and showed no signs of regression after his injury. I just hate that whenever a move is made or not made, all the armchair GMs pile on and throw out alternate scenarios of how things "should've" or "could've" happened even though they're based on nothing and so often do not (and really cannot) account for the variables internal to the system. "(insert player) signed for $X with team Y. Why didn't DW give him that?" when we don't know that he didn't, or that he maybe offered more, or whether or not that player had any interest in playing in San Jose. "Doug signed player Z for $A, but why didn't he offer $B for C years? That's just as fair" There are rare occurances where we do find things like this out, as was teh case with Moen. But by and large we are closed off to all of the innner workings of those proceedings, except for the end result.

It's not really feasible, but I'd love to see Joe Schmo sports fan plugged into the GM's chair of a real team for a day and have to do everything that a real GM does, just to see how easy/hard it is and how they succeed/fail at it. It's not something you can replicate with a video game or "actors" playing a script in something like a message board FA game, or fantasy hockey, or anything like that. I know that armchair management is all part of the sports fan package, but sometimes I think people forget that playing the scenario out in your head is a whole lot different than playing it out in real life.

Sorry David, I'm not picking on you here. I just have had that one stewing in my head all off-season and this felt like a good chance to get it out there.

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08-31-2009, 12:04 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
None of those guys count against the cap and all of those numbers are totals including the bonuses and not their base rate which is standardized for the most part. All of those guys also have a secondary pay rate depending on where they play, I assume. I could be wrong though.
Correct - all of those players are on ELS contracts, which are by definition two way (or three way) deals and all contain Performance Bonuses (since the max ELS Salary for the three are $900K, $875K, and $875K).

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08-31-2009, 12:04 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
Those numbers are there cap hit if they play in the NHL. Based on potential is my point. I don't see anything wrong with this contract. Could end up being a little high. Could end up being little low.
Still, the difference between those contracts and this one is that those ones are more or less standardized. This one was done out of choice. It's not a big deal but it's another point of contention with his negotiating tactics.

Even the smallest amount that a GM can haggle a player down to is something that can be used elsewhere. The problem with Doug Wilson's strategy is that it will hinge on one of two things. Either someone who actually does most of his team's work takes a big pay cut or that he's able to dump a bad contract elsewhere.

I wouldn't mind a one year high pay deal as long as it doesn't cost the long-term health of the future. Rob Blake's deal did that after all is said and done. Kent Huskins deal combined with Clowe and Mitchell is likely to cost the team someone important next year like Marleau.

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08-31-2009, 12:08 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
None of those guys count against the cap and all of those numbers are totals including the bonuses and not their base rate which is standardized for the most part. All of those guys also have a secondary pay rate depending on where they play, I assume. I could be wrong though.
I think you're right on all counts. Except for Karlsson, who will be paid by his Elitserien team and not the Sharks org.

to the people you're quoting, that's just pro sports. Paying for potential is how it's been for a while now. And not all of these are meant to be the fees the team will actually pay. Karlsson, for example, will never see a dime of that money because he'll play for Farjestad this season, become a FA and then the Sharks will be able to hold onto his rights. That pay level is all about setting him up for RFA status so that they have the first move next season when it comes time to either keep him because they like what they saw, or cut him loose because he's not what they expected.

EDIT: Go to capgeek to see the structure of some of the contracts. Petrecki and Couture, for example, are not "truely" making that entire amount. About a quarter of that in both cases is made up of bonuses. so really their base salaries are more in the 700-800k range

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08-31-2009, 12:11 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by The Nemesis View Post
Sorry David, I'm not picking on you here. I just have had that one stewing in my head all off-season and this felt like a good chance to get it out there.
Well, if Mitchell rejected everything up until 1.3mil , he is an ass.
If Huskins did, he's got quite an ego but I have a feeling it was all DW's expectations of him becoming Scuderi.

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08-31-2009, 12:11 AM
  #35
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This may turn out fine, infact it may turn out relatively cheap. But this kid has 1 year in the NHL and he didnt do a whole lot to earn over a mil a year. I honestly think he overpaid.

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08-31-2009, 12:15 AM
  #36
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Mitchell seems like the kind of player who has integrity and drive to live up to this deal so long as his health holds up. I'm pretty much fine with this deal in the end. We did free up enough space to eat $1.367m cap hit this year. Next year and the year thereafter this cap hit should be a blessing.

Congrats to Torrey. He's the kind of player we need more of.

Edit: the upside here is if he gets a chance on the 2nd line (due to say an injury) and shows he can score, then we've just found one of those "players who have to add more value than their cap hit". You need those for long Cup runs.


Last edited by Gilligans Island: 08-31-2009 at 12:24 AM.
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08-31-2009, 12:25 AM
  #37
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Another overpayment by DW to keep someone in town ... I don't mind this one that much because it's not that much, but this trend has to end.

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08-31-2009, 12:28 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Nighthock View Post
Another overpayment by DW to keep someone in town
We just need to win the damn Cup, so we can have players want to sign for cheap a la Detroit.

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08-31-2009, 01:01 AM
  #39
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I knew about this signing on Friday night. I ran into Ryane Clowe and Devin Setoguchi. We were talking about Errors trade and Ryane mentioned the fact that Torrey was signed to a 3 year deal but it wouldn't be released to the pubilc for a while but it's already done.

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08-31-2009, 01:04 AM
  #40
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Did they say anything interesting about Error's trade?

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08-31-2009, 01:07 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by MadmanSJ View Post
Jeez... glad some of you here aren't the GM. Look beyond the f'ing stats if you can comprehend the concept.
What you have here are a bunch of sheep with no concept of reality.

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08-31-2009, 01:18 AM
  #42
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What you have here are a bunch of sheep with no concept of reality.
Because GM's are infallible, right?

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08-31-2009, 01:19 AM
  #43
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I think this is a very decent deal.

Mitchell has repeatedly been mentioned in the 'youngsters Roenick was grooming' kind of discussions and if Setoguchi, Pavelski and Mitchell are to be the leaders of this team in the future, the team has to make some sort of commitment to him now too.

The cap hit is irrelevant based on the past - signing him for 3 years needed Wilson to take into accont where he will be at the end of that period. I believe this contract will be on the money this year and we'll have a steal on our hands for the following 2. This is the price that was necessary for a 3 year deal. If he had a shorter 1 year deal and played his socks off this year he'd have cost us more than $1.3m per for the next 2, I'm sure of that...

I stuck it to Wilson over the Ehrhoff trade but I'll give you one this year - that's a decent signing if you look at the whole deal.

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08-31-2009, 01:21 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
Because GM's are infallible, right?
And Marleau will resign long term for 4.5 to 5 too, right

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08-31-2009, 01:24 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by SJfortheCUP View Post
And Marleau will resign long term for 4.5 to 5 too, right
I never said he would and you dodged the question.

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08-31-2009, 01:28 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
I never said he would and you dodged the question.
To answer directly then, yes i think Mitchell is easily worth that contract and I think it's a very good signing. +1 for DW. And if we get a 2nd for Ehrhoff (or flip those prospects for someone) seeing as he was gone anyway, I don't have a problem with that either. I guess some people would have rather waived Ehrhoff so we wouldn't "help" Vancouver. For the love of God.

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08-31-2009, 01:29 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Lord Stanley 4 SJ View Post
I knew about this signing on Friday night. I ran into Ryane Clowe and Devin Setoguchi. We were talking about Errors trade and Ryane mentioned the fact that Torrey was signed to a 3 year deal but it wouldn't be released to the pubilc for a while but it's already done.
DW also mentioned in that Rusanowsky interview that the deal was pretty much done ... "just need to dot the i's and cross the t's" ...

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08-31-2009, 01:30 AM
  #48
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This is about $500k more than most people were counting on when they were figuring roster space. That's basically what a 13th forward is going to cost. If he doesn't dump Cheechoo or someone else with a big contract, that's almost going to guarantee you won't see Couture, Petrecki, or probably Moore playing in the NHL this year. DW now has a bit under $3 mil to fill out 4 roster spots and have space for injury call-ups.

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08-31-2009, 01:32 AM
  #49
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Is Mitchell even skating? I heard a few weeks ago that his knee was swelling and he wasn't skating. It didn't sound good for the start of this season.

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08-31-2009, 01:34 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJfortheCUP View Post
To answer directly then, yes i think Mitchell is easily worth that contract and I think it's a very good signing. +1 for DW. And if we get a 2nd for Ehrhoff (or flip those prospects for someone) seeing as he was gone anyway, I don't have a problem with that either. I guess some people would have rather waived Ehrhoff so we wouldn't "help" Vancouver. For the love of God.
I think it's that most people would rather have waived or traded Cheechoo, not Ehrhoff.

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