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Calgary - Anaheim

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Old
08-31-2009, 11:27 PM
  #51
Pepper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iggy-4-50 View Post
I just wish people would have a clue sometimes before they shoot their mouths off.

Ryan is a UFA next season
LOL that's a classic, you tell people to get a clue before shooting their mouth off and then proceed to make yourself look clueless by claiming that Ryan is an UFA after next season.

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Old
08-31-2009, 11:40 PM
  #52
bumperkisser
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lol, hopefully he knew that it was RFA and he just didnt care enogh to post that.. how are people so bone headed sometimes lol

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Old
08-31-2009, 11:43 PM
  #53
Moses Doughty
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The only reason Anaheim would so much as consider this is if they really questioned the d. But being a Ducj hater, I admit that Ryan is a beast. I'd give ip alot to get him. If Anaheim really wants a number 2 d there are much better ways.
Ducks would say NO.

And they could trade a guy like Lupul or even Giggy which wouldn't make sense on the ladder

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Old
09-01-2009, 02:02 AM
  #54
Rob Zepp
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Originally Posted by Iggy-4-50 View Post
Funny how you bring up his -11 from and injury filled year but don't mention the +12 and +11 the previous 2 seasons
Thought if you were trading a player, you were trading the player of today versus a version from previous years.

Anyway, this would be a solid move for Calgary as they can shed some $$ from the back end and get a strong first line and a more balanced attack. Also would give them someone to take the load when JI passes the torch as no one else in the hopper has that pedigre in the prospect pool currently.

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Old
09-01-2009, 02:57 AM
  #55
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Robb Zepp is too good of a troll for me to handle. I just have to ignore him.

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Old
09-01-2009, 09:44 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Patrick - Flames Fan View Post
You logic is rediculous. So by your methods.

- Scott Neidermeyer was -8 and is a #6D.
- Chris Pronger is only a #5D because he was +0.
- Rod Brind'Amour, one of the best 2 way forwards was 2nd last in the whole NHL last year at -23.

- Drew Doughty was -17
-Ryan Suter was -16
- Stamkos was -13

No matter their previous poor +/- teams would snap this people up at FAIR market value, not a discount because of an offyear.
+/- is an absolutely horrible way to measure defensive ability. Now I would hope most would know that, especially after seeing Marek Malik lead the league in +/- because he got to ride with the WCE all year.

That being said, that doesn't get Phaneuf off the hook. If you want to play the stat geek, you could mention how he's on the ice for more ES goals than just about anyone(I believe he might've been tops in the league). And this is despite the fact that he doesn't go up against the top lines of the other teams. Overall, that's just incredible how someone can be so bad against the depth scoring of a team. But perhaps you don't like to stat geek it up, and you can simply watch Phaneuf and tell that not only is he an idiot with little hockey sense, but he's bad positionally as well.


So all things considered, it isn't hard to pick a 22-year old sophomore forward who scored at a 40-goal pace in his rookie year and was flat out dominant over a 24-year old defenseman who is terrible in his own end. The Flames fans in this thread trying to say that Ryan doesn't even compare to Phaneuf in terms of value are basically as biased as it gets. Oh, and that's not even considering that for next year, at least, Ryan will make more than $5 million less than him.

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Old
09-01-2009, 10:47 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garfinkel1 View Post
I always wondered if we broke down PPG to PPM(Points per minutes of ice time) what would the top 10 Points, top 10 goals and top 10 assists leaders look like. Players like Ovechkin are amazing talent of course but I was wondering if the dffrence between the Malkins, Ovechkins Crosbys and the lower tier players would be that diverce if it was by minutes rather than games given they get more ice time (and deservedly so).

Here are a few people that stuck out to me as good Point/Minute players. (Kotalik, Gomez and Zherdev I did because I am a Ranger fan and was curious.)
Go ahead and add a few people you find intresting or discuss those already listed.

1. Malkin - 113 Points -> 16minutes, 20 seconds per point.
2. Ovie - 110 Points -> 16minutes, 31 seconds per point.
3. Crosby - 103 Points -> 16minutes, 23 seconds per point.
4. Datsyuk - 97 Points -> 16 minutes, 2 seconds per point.
5. Parise - 94 Points -> 16 minutes, 21 seconds per point.
19. Semin - 79 Points -> 15minutes, 1 second per point.
51. Vanek - 64 Points -> 19 minutes, 36 seconds per point.
59. Kessel - 60 Points -> 19 minutes, 18.5 seconds per point.
73. Zherdev - 58 Points -> 23 minutes, 46 minutes per point.
74. Gomez - 58 points -> 27 minutes, 56 seconds per point.
76. B. Ryan - 57 Points -> 12 minutes, 49 seconds per point.
78. Hudler - 57 Points - > 18 minutes, 42 seconds per point.
108. Perron - 50 points -> 23 minutes, 31 seconds per point.
117. Richards - 48 Points -> 23 minutes, 52 seconds per point.
155. Kotalik - 43 Points -> 26 minutes, 57 seconds per point.
164. Lucic - 43 Points -> 25 minutes, 36 seconds per point.


  • B. Ryan (0)
  • A. Semin (-2min, 12 seconds)
  • Datsyuk (-1min, 1 second)
  • Malkin (-18 seconds)
  • Crosby(-3 seconds)
  • Ovie (-18 seconds)




I found that to be reallly intresting. Could Boby Ryan not handle the minutes to play 1st line minutes because he sure is producing like one. I also Found Datsyuk's results to be amazing. To be known as such an amazing player in his own zone and the ability to put up numbers at that pace is astonishing. He's gotta be on everyones list of top 5 forwards in the game.
I'm telling you, Bobby Ryan is the real deal.

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Old
09-01-2009, 12:39 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leopold Stotch View Post
That being said, that doesn't get Phaneuf off the hook. If you want to play the stat geek, you could mention how he's on the ice for more ES goals than just about anyone(I believe he might've been tops in the league). And this is despite the fact that he doesn't go up against the top lines of the other teams. Overall, that's just incredible how someone can be so bad against the depth scoring of a team. But perhaps you don't like to stat geek it up, and you can simply watch Phaneuf and tell that not only is he an idiot with little hockey sense, but he's bad positionally as well.
Right, Phaneuf plays the easy minutes. After all, he was third in the league in averaging 26 minutes a night, I'm sure it was all against 3rd and 4th lines. Just because he's not polished defensively doesn't mean he won't learn. He doesn't need to be Lidstrom, he plays a completely different style. He's mature offensively and physically right now, not defensively.

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Old
09-01-2009, 01:00 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Cactus Jack View Post
Right, Phaneuf plays the easy minutes. After all, he was third in the league in averaging 26 minutes a night, I'm sure it was all against 3rd and 4th lines. Just because he's not polished defensively doesn't mean he won't learn. He doesn't need to be Lidstrom, he plays a completely different style. He's mature offensively and physically right now, not defensively.
No, Phaneuf didn't go out much against the opponent's top units. He did play a lot, but it wasn't against the best the other team had to offer very often.

And it's not that he isn't polished or mature defensively, he's just plain bad. He's physical, sure, but has no head for the defensive side of the game.

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Old
09-01-2009, 01:10 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Ryan Getzlaf View Post
No, Phaneuf didn't go out much against the opponent's top units. He did play a lot, but it wasn't against the best the other team had to offer very often.

And it's not that he isn't polished or mature defensively, he's just plain bad. He's physical, sure, but has no head for the defensive side of the game.
You have no clue.

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Old
09-01-2009, 01:12 PM
  #61
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Right now? I would say their value is similar however, if ryan can do the exact same thing next year as he did last year, his value shoots way past dion's. Right now with Dion you know what can be expected his highs and lows. With Ryan for all we know he could fall flat on his face ala Carey price after the injury last season. If he can do just as good this year and prove consistency, I wouldnt trade him in a million years if I was the ducks. If he becomes even stronger next year this trade begins to look laughable.

The whole whats harder to find a 100 point forward, or 60 point defencemen all depends on the defencemen. If we are taking about a 60 point defencemen who is strong defencively, then yes; if we are talking about a 60 point defencemen who is a liability in his own end then no.

Also to consider is the fact teams seem to never trade their 90-100 point players. You don't see crosby's, malkin's and datsyuk's been moved all over the place. You do however see more trades involving top teir defencemen like pronger. All being said, I would always keep the 90-100 point forward as they are hard to draft and even harder to attain via trade.

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Old
09-01-2009, 01:55 PM
  #62
Iggy-4-50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Ryan Getzlaf View Post
No, Phaneuf didn't go out much against the opponent's top units. He did play a lot, but it wasn't against the best the other team had to offer very often.

And it's not that he isn't polished or mature defensively, he's just plain bad. He's physical, sure, but has no head for the defensive side of the game.
Someone must have hacked into your acct, is it possible to have over 11,000 posts with comments like this?

WOW

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Old
09-01-2009, 02:10 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by 20 Cent View Post
Aren't you able to discuss the subject properly? I don't know whether he's from Europe or whether he just put up that German flag for fun. Keep in mind the majority of European posters here first got in touch with the NHL through NHL video games and are now expanding their interest into the real thing...the NHL itself. Maybe he's not aware that the Plus/Minus shouldn't be overvalued, because we all know that it's more a team stat and not so much an individual stat.

Robb...do you know the famous saying...offense wins games and defense win championships? Having Phanuef, Bouwmeester and Regher on the team means that Sutter has at least on the ice through an entire game. Also, Phaunef has time to round out his game. He's still young in terms of age for a NHL D-man.
Robb has been poking at Flames fans for a little bit now. I have no idea about the flag either, I suspect its for fun. He has a database that he has worked on for years that can predict where teams will finish. He also claims to know about of NHL players and even is friends with a guy who recently played with the Flames for a few years. He knows what people "around the game" say about certain players as well. He's got the inside story.

He's a Canucks fan who doesn't like the Flames yet he insists that he's an objective fan. Oh and in his opinion Flames fans are insecure because you know.... sports are so serious that you can be insecure about your team

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Old
09-01-2009, 02:22 PM
  #64
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Flames don't do this because their depth on the blueline isn't that deep. With their new coach, they'll concentrate more on their back-end - rather than weakening it for goals up front.

It may cost them some games in the regular season - but they'll be a tougher post-season opponent.

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Old
09-01-2009, 02:41 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Iggy-4-50 View Post
Someone must have hacked into your acct, is it possible to have over 11,000 posts with comments like this?

WOW
This guy is talking ****, still?

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Old
09-01-2009, 02:43 PM
  #66
Coach John McGuirk
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Why does Anaheim split up (arguably) the best line in the NHL by trading a great young forward with all the potential in the world, and why does Calgary trade a young defenseman who also has all the potential in the world, and is big piece of their defense corps which is (arguably) the best in the NHL?

Sure, the value might be there on paper, but in reality it makes no sense.

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Old
09-01-2009, 04:33 PM
  #67
blankall
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Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
Ryan had 31 goals, in only 64 games... that's a 40 goal pace... in his rookie season.

And anyone that watched him play last year knows it was no fluke... he is an outstanding player and showed it already in his rookie year... he was also the team's top +/- forward, played aggressively - through a full season, he'd be right behind Perry in hits! solid on the PP (2nd on the team behind Selanne in PPG), and did it with just 15.5min/night of icetime - which is surely to go up significantly next season.... looks like a top end powerforward in the making to me, who's already scoring at a 40 goal pace through just his rookie year!

Phaneuf didn't just have a bad season "by his standards" ... he was bad last year in general... just go back and read calpuck for example, and the comments they had about Phaneuf through the year... his defense was non-existent... he was bad. Still, he's young and improving those parts of his game can come through experience... but anyone who saw him play last year knows that he didn't have a good season by anyone's standards... defensively he was just plain bad!

I think value-wise this is a pretty good trade... but neither team would do it... both players have tons of potential and both will get better... neither team is going to move one of their own drafted players that has star potential in them. Too risky a move that can hurt either team if they made it.
Doesn't matter. Phaneuf is not getting traded for a rookie who had a goal streak on a hot line.

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Old
09-01-2009, 04:57 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by blankall View Post
Doesn't matter. Phaneuf is not getting traded for a rookie who had a goal streak on a hot line.
a 30-goal scorer as a rookie will not be traded for an un needed Defenseman.

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Old
09-01-2009, 05:19 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by blankall View Post
Doesn't matter. Phaneuf is not getting traded for a rookie who had a goal streak on a hot line.
Haha, Ryan played the majority of the season in the 3rd and 4th line. I think he even averaged better ppg on the 3rd and 4th line than he did in the playoffs on the 1st line.

Ryan makes his teammates better, which was the reason he wasn't with Getzlaf all year long in the first place. He is better than Perry so saying that he got his stats because of his linemates... you obviously haven't seen him more than one game, two tops.

The funny thing in this thread is, that people are talking about his goals, add to that, that he's even a better passer.

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Old
09-01-2009, 05:25 PM
  #70
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[QUOTE:Originally Posted by Garfinkel1
I always wondered if we broke down PPG to PPM(Points per minutes of ice time) what would the top 10 Points, top 10 goals and top 10 assists leaders look like. Players like Ovechkin are amazing talent of course but I was wondering if the dffrence between the Malkins, Ovechkins Crosbys and the lower tier players would be that diverce if it was by minutes rather than games given they get more ice time (and deservedly so).

Here are a few people that stuck out to me as good Point/Minute players. (Kotalik, Gomez and Zherdev I did because I am a Ranger fan and was curious.)
Go ahead and add a few people you find intresting or discuss those already listed.

1. Malkin - 113 Points -> 16minutes, 20 seconds per point.
2. Ovie - 110 Points -> 16minutes, 31 seconds per point.
3. Crosby - 103 Points -> 16minutes, 23 seconds per point.
4. Datsyuk - 97 Points -> 16 minutes, 2 seconds per point.
5. Parise - 94 Points -> 16 minutes, 21 seconds per point.
19. Semin - 79 Points -> 15minutes, 1 second per point.
51. Vanek - 64 Points -> 19 minutes, 36 seconds per point.
59. Kessel - 60 Points -> 19 minutes, 18.5 seconds per point.
73. Zherdev - 58 Points -> 23 minutes, 46 minutes per point.
74. Gomez - 58 points -> 27 minutes, 56 seconds per point.
76. B. Ryan - 57 Points -> 12 minutes, 49 seconds per point.
78. Hudler - 57 Points - > 18 minutes, 42 seconds per point.
108. Perron - 50 points -> 23 minutes, 31 seconds per point.
117. Richards - 48 Points -> 23 minutes, 52 seconds per point.
155. Kotalik - 43 Points -> 26 minutes, 57 seconds per point.
164. Lucic - 43 Points -> 25 minutes, 36 seconds per point.


B. Ryan (0)
A. Semin (-2min, 12 seconds)
Datsyuk (-1min, 1 second)
Malkin (-18 seconds)
Crosby(-3 seconds)
Ovie (-18 seconds)




I found that to be reallly intresting. Could Boby Ryan not handle the minutes to play 1st line minutes because he sure is producing like one. I also Found Datsyuk's results to be amazing. To be known as such an amazing player in his own zone and the ability to put up numbers at that pace is astonishing. He's gotta be on everyones list of top 5 forwards in the game.

I'm telling you, Bobby Ryan is the real deal.[/QUOTE]

Its not that he couldnt handle it because in the playoffs, you saw he could obviously handle it.. its just the way the ducks handle their prospects.. they have to earn their ice time and they ease them into the role.. thats why at the start, ryan was playin on the 4th line, then on the 2nd, and then when kunitz got traded we tried him out with getzy n perry

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Old
09-01-2009, 06:12 PM
  #71
Rob Zepp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 20 Cent View Post

Robb...do you know the famous saying...offense wins games and defense win championships? Having Phanuef, Bouwmeester and Regher on the team means that Sutter has at least on the ice through an entire game. Also, Phaunef has time to round out his game. He's still young in terms of age for a NHL D-man.
Very familiar with that.....absolutely. However, two key parts of the Calgary Franchise D are Kipprusoff and Phaneuf and your optimism on the latter is possible but it will take a shift in attitude towards to the game. This thread was about a proposed trade and the Calgary team desparately needs a young talented forward who can score the way Bobby Ryan can.

Anyway, seems no Anaheim fans are keen on this deal anyway.

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Old
09-01-2009, 07:26 PM
  #72
blankall
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Originally Posted by New Jersey Devils View Post
a 30-goal scorer as a rookie will not be traded for an un needed Defenseman.
Phaneuf in an "off year" averaged almost 27 minutes a game.

Last time I checked, Pronger just walked... so yeah you do need that.

Not to mention Neidermeyer (who also had a -ve +/- btw) is not getting any younger.

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Old
09-01-2009, 07:29 PM
  #73
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surprised at the objection from calgary fans. as a ducks fan i don't like it.

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Old
09-01-2009, 08:32 PM
  #74
ericnut
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Doesn't matter. Phaneuf is not getting traded for a rookie who had a goal streak on a hot line.
Playing with Parros? Ha!

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Old
09-01-2009, 11:29 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blankall View Post
Phaneuf in an "off year" averaged almost 27 minutes a game.

Last time I checked, Pronger just walked... so yeah you do need that.

Not to mention Neidermeyer (who also had a -ve +/- btw) is not getting any younger.
Pronger was moved (not walked) because the GM wanted to change the talent and salary balance of the team. The team was too defense-heavy, and too light on offense. He's not going to go back on his decision without at least giving it a shot.

Pronger's money was spent on forwards (Lupul and Koivu). The ice time will go to players like Wisniewski, Whitney, and Sbisa.

If Anaheim needed it so much, they'd have kept the better and cheaper Pronger. Instead of trading him away to acquire Phaneuf.

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