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The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

Peak wise, Forsberg or Jagr?

View Poll Results: Who had the better peak?
Peter Forsberg 24 24.00%
Jaromir Jagr 76 76.00%
Voters: 100. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-19-2010, 06:10 PM
  #1
Billy Crawford
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Peak wise, Forsberg or Jagr?

The title says it all. There was a thread about it on the main board but after 14 pages of mostly blind homerism and national bias I decided to take seventieslord's advice and post a poll here. Keep in mind that it's only about peak value because all things considered Jagr vs. Forsberg is a landslide victory for Jagr in my opinion. But as far as far as their peaks I think it's a lot closer.
So what do you guys think? I personally believe that Jagr at his peak was better than Forsberg at his but admittedly I'm a biased Pens fan who started following hockey in the late 90's.

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Old
01-19-2010, 06:30 PM
  #2
jcbio11
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Jagr and I am not biased.

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Old
01-19-2010, 06:54 PM
  #3
overpass
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I don't have a strong opinion on this one, so I'm not voting. I think they were the best two players of their era at their peak.

But here's one point in Forsberg's favour. There's a line of argument that states that Forsberg benefitted from playing with Sakic, as opposing teams didn't have to focus on him as much. To counter this, consider the 24 games that Sakic missed in the regular season of 2002-03.

Colorado went 18-4-2 in those 24 games. Forsberg played in 20 of those games, in which they were 16-3-1. In those 20 games Forsbeg scored 10 goals, 28 assists, 38 points, and was +25. That's a pretty awesome run as the undisputed #1 centre.

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01-19-2010, 06:56 PM
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mco543
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Jagr, all day everyday and I grew up hating him too. The things Jagr could do at his peak were out of this galaxy. When motivated Jagr could single handedly will a team of minor league players to the playoffs.

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Old
01-19-2010, 07:47 PM
  #5
seventieslord
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hmmm, 7-0 so far. Czech Your Math and jags6868 have massive ****-eating grins right now.

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01-19-2010, 08:02 PM
  #6
Moses Doughty
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Foppa, Ive never seen someone so dominating as him in his era. Never will there be another Forsberg.

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01-19-2010, 08:30 PM
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Ohashi_Jouzu
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As someone who sat down and watched from the outside, I support the process that this board took in establishing its top 100 list. Since that list has Jagr clearly ahead of Forsberg, I don't feel like there's anything I could add personally that would make that determination more, nor less, valid.

Both great, but clearly Jagr.

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Old
01-19-2010, 09:17 PM
  #8
finchster
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Jagr by far

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Old
01-19-2010, 09:25 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Foley View Post
Foppa, Ive never seen someone so dominating as him in his era. Never will there be another Forsberg.
When healthy both Lindros and Jagr were better and more dominating than Forsberg, in that era of mid-to-late 90's.

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01-19-2010, 09:34 PM
  #10
livewell68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Foley View Post
Foppa, Ive never seen someone so dominating as him in his era. Never will there be another Forsberg.
Sure there were a few players more dominant than he was in his era Jagr and Lindros.

Jagr was way more dominant offensively and Lindros was similar to Forsberg but slightly better since he was a better goal scorer.

Many people consider Forsberg a power forward but I bet my left leg Forsberg doesn't a make a top 5 power forward list.

Here are the best power forwards of all-time.

1. Howe
2. Esposito
3. Neely
4. Clarke
5. Lindros
The only player in his prime that could give Jagr a run for his money from the mid to late 90's is Lindros.

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Old
01-19-2010, 09:47 PM
  #11
lextune
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I am a huge Forsberg fan.......

....but the answer to this question is Jagr.

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Old
01-19-2010, 09:49 PM
  #12
ted1971
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Jagr by a country Mile.

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01-19-2010, 09:53 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jags6868 View Post
Sure there were a few players more dominant than he was in his era Jagr and Lindros.

Jagr was way more dominant offensively and Lindros was similar to Forsberg but slightly better since he was a better goal scorer.

Many people consider Forsberg a power forward but I bet my left leg Forsberg doesn't a make a top 5 power forward list.

Here are the best power forwards of all-time.

1. Howe
2. Esposito
3. Neely
4. Clarke
5. Lindros
The only player in his prime that could give Jagr a run for his money from the mid to late 90's is Lindros.
Clarke was a great great player, but he wasn't a power forward.

Neely couldn't hold Lindros' jock when both were healthy.

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Old
01-19-2010, 10:12 PM
  #14
Big Phil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Foley View Post
Foppa, Ive never seen someone so dominating as him in his era. Never will there be another Forsberg.
See that's the thing. Yes the man was a heck of a player and a sure fire Hall of Famer. But he wasn't even the most dominating player on his TEAM let alone his era. Sakic at his peak beats him out IMO.

For health reasons I give Forsberg the nod over Lindros because I don't believe in the "what if" factor but I gve Sakic a better peak and without even thinking much I take Jagr in a walk.

Think about it. It's 1998 or 1999. You are a GM. You have a choice. Do you take Jagr or Forsberg straight up? Is there a player in the NHL that you would give up Jagr for? Maybe Hasek, maybe. Not Forsberg. Jagr won 5 scoring titles and won 4 in a row at one point. Forsberg narrowly beat Nalsund in 2003. Nice, but not utterly dominant.

And there already is another Forsberg in the NHL. There are at least two players in the NHL today that dominate a clear cut above what Forsberg did. Crosby and Ovechkin. And if he feels like it Malkin and Thornton are neck and neck with a prime Forsberg.

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01-19-2010, 10:41 PM
  #15
livewell68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
See that's the thing. Yes the man was a heck of a player and a sure fire Hall of Famer. But he wasn't even the most dominating player on his TEAM let alone his era. Sakic at his peak beats him out IMO.

For health reasons I give Forsberg the nod over Lindros because I don't believe in the "what if" factor but I gve Sakic a better peak and without even thinking much I take Jagr in a walk.

Think about it. It's 1998 or 1999. You are a GM. You have a choice. Do you take Jagr or Forsberg straight up? Is there a player in the NHL that you would give up Jagr for? Maybe Hasek, maybe. Not Forsberg. Jagr won 5 scoring titles and won 4 in a row at one point. Forsberg narrowly beat Nalsund in 2003. Nice, but not utterly dominant.

And there already is another Forsberg in the NHL. There are at least two players in the NHL today that dominate a clear cut above what Forsberg did. Crosby and Ovechkin. And if he feels like it Malkin and Thornton are neck and neck with a prime Forsberg.
This! Jagr in his prime would also be a step ahead of Ovechkin and Crosby.

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01-19-2010, 10:47 PM
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lextune
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jags6868 View Post
Here are the best power forwards of all-time.

1. Howe
2. Esposito
3. Neely
4. Clarke
5. Lindros
This is pretty off-topic and totally wrong, lol.

Espo and Clarke don't belong on the list at all and Cam would have to be behind Lindros, and I am the biggest Neely fan that has ever lived, (in my opinion the HoF might as well have closed down if they weren't going to induct him).

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01-19-2010, 10:52 PM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Foley View Post
Foppa, Ive never seen someone so dominating as him in his era. Never will there be another Forsberg.
I'd say Crosby plays a very similar game to Forsberg - or at least he did, until he got into his head that he's more of a goalscorer than a playmaker.

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01-19-2010, 11:02 PM
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livewell68
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Originally Posted by lextune View Post
This is pretty off-topic and totally wrong, lol.

Espo and Clarke don't belong on the list at all and Cam would have to be behind Lindros, and I am the biggest Neely fan that has ever lived, (in my opinion the HoF might as well have closed down if they weren't going to induct him).
Cam Neely in his prime and only when healthy was a beast.

As for Clarke and Esposito, they were big tough players that were very gritty and back in the late 60's and 70's hockey was different than it is now. Everyone used to fight but they used to check less than they did in the 90's and now so they might have not looked like power forwards at first glance but they were.

You would consider Brind'amour in his prime as a power forward wouldn't you? Well Clarke was very similar to Brind'amour.

You would also consider Bertuzzi in his prime as a power foward right? Well Esposito played very similar to Bertuzzi. Just like Bertuzzi, Espoito had great hands for a big guy and scored a lot of close range "garbage goals" and couldn't be moved and was also intimidating due his size.

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01-19-2010, 11:48 PM
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lextune
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I don't know what you are going by, but I actually saw all these players play....
Quote:
Originally Posted by jags6868 View Post
Cam Neely in his prime and only when healthy was a beast.
I quite literally saw every single game Neely played as a Bruin and saw Lindros play hundreds of times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jags6868 View Post
Clarke was very similar to Brind'amour.
No.

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Old
01-20-2010, 05:54 AM
  #20
Canadiens1958
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Power Forward

Quote:
Originally Posted by jags6868 View Post
Cam Neely in his prime and only when healthy was a beast.

As for Clarke and Esposito, they were big tough players that were very gritty and back in the late 60's and 70's hockey was different than it is now. Everyone used to fight but they used to check less than they did in the 90's and now so they might have not looked like power forwards at first glance but they were.

You would consider Brind'amour in his prime as a power forward wouldn't you? Well Clarke was very similar to Brind'amour.

You would also consider Bertuzzi in his prime as a power foward right? Well Esposito played very similar to Bertuzzi. Just like Bertuzzi, Espoito had great hands for a big guy and scored a lot of close range "garbage goals" and couldn't be moved and was also intimidating due his size.
Criteria for a power forward also includes the ability to move other players - like Howe, Messier etc. did. Phil Esposito and Bob Clarke did not move other players.

Phil Esposito was a more skilled/faster version of Tim Kerr. As short shifts(< 1 minute) became the norm, this type of forward slowly faded away.

Clarke was an inflated 5'10", 185 lbs. Doug Gilmour would be a fairly close comparison but smaller. Mike Peca had similar defensive skills but was nowhere near the offensive force.

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Old
01-20-2010, 02:41 PM
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Big Phil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jags6868 View Post
As for Clarke and Esposito, they were big tough players that were very gritty and back in the late 60's and 70's hockey was different than it is now. Everyone used to fight but they used to check less than they did in the 90's and now so they might have not looked like power forwards at first glance but they were.

You would consider Brind'amour in his prime as a power forward wouldn't you? Well Clarke was very similar to Brind'amour.

You would also consider Bertuzzi in his prime as a power foward right? Well Esposito played very similar to Bertuzzi. Just like Bertuzzi, Espoito had great hands for a big guy and scored a lot of close range "garbage goals" and couldn't be moved and was also intimidating due his size.
Esposito is a little bit closer than Clarke as a powerforward. But he still didn't intimidate. Esposito didn't really throw checks like Bertuzzi did. That is a key to also being a power forward. Size wise Espo was big for his time. Clarke even at his prime was not big or even average in the NHL. Average height in the '70s was about 6'0"

BrindAmour was not a power forward any time I recall. Not big enough, not physical enough. Just a good two way player. Clarke was a GREAT two way player and a HHOFer but I don't call cheapshotting a player and hiding behind a goon much to do with a power forward

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01-20-2010, 02:43 PM
  #22
Big Phil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jags6868 View Post
This! Jagr in his prime would also be a step ahead of Ovechkin and Crosby.
As of right now you are probably right. But I don't think we've seen the best from either of them yet

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01-20-2010, 02:48 PM
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I am biased as my username might suggest, but for me it comes down to I would rather have a prime Forsberg in the playoffs then a prime Jagr, regular season it is all Jagr though no doubt.

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Old
01-21-2010, 05:44 AM
  #24
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Originally Posted by Forsbergwannabe View Post
I am biased as my username might suggest, but for me it comes down to I would rather have a prime Forsberg in the playoffs then a prime Jagr, regular season it is all Jagr though no doubt.
Jagr ranks among all-time leaders in OT playoff goals and playoff GW goals.

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01-21-2010, 11:18 AM
  #25
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Definitely Jagr

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