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Old
09-07-2009, 07:36 PM
  #1
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Die Hard Ranger fan with concerns...

Wat's up guys, I am a die hard Rangers fan new to HF Boards.

Now that I have gotten that out of the way, I want to start by addressing concerns within this team. I used to be an optimistic Ranger's fan thinking every year we made our offseason moves that it could be the year where we finally get over the bubble, and obviously those feelings have been futile.

Now, there are a bunch of nieve Rangers fans that start to bother me more and more every year. I have now icreasingly become pessimistic about this team.

Like I had someone on the IGN NHL EA Boards think that the Rangers would be one of the top teams in the East, which leads me to reason number one I don't think so:

Once teams start to triple team Gaborik (if he stays healthy), then I really don't feel as though our secondary scoring could carry the load. I look at Prospal as being on the downside of his career, and I'd rather have Zherdev than both of them. We have a lot of 3rd and 4th line players now, with brashear, boyle, i personally think prospal isn't that good so you could concievably count him.

I know most of us are die hard Rangers fans, but I am really worried that this team isn't equipped to be very good at all, this is one of the times I hope I am wrong. Our defense consists of Staal and Girardi, a couple of slow, shoddy defenders, and two young kids. Our lines are scattered with some decent scoring here and there, we don't really have a line that could strike fear in any team, just a few decent plays scattered around.

So thoughts and opinions would be greatly appreciated, and no he's not a real Ranger fan, I'm just looking at the team realisticly and looking for an intelligent discussion on how bad we'll be this year lol jk.

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09-07-2009, 07:45 PM
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Inferno
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYSportsfan6230 View Post
Wat's up guys, I am a die hard Rangers fan new to HF Boards.

Now that I have gotten that out of the way, I want to start by addressing concerns within this team. I used to be an optimistic Ranger's fan thinking every year we made our offseason moves that it could be the year where we finally get over the bubble, and obviously those feelings have been futile.

Now, there are a bunch of nieve Rangers fans that start to bother me more and more every year. I have now icreasingly become pessimistic about this team.

Like I had someone on the IGN NHL EA Boards think that the Rangers would be one of the top teams in the East, which leads me to reason number one I don't think so:

Once teams start to triple team Gaborik (if he stays healthy), then I really don't feel as though our secondary scoring could carry the load. I look at Prospal as being on the downside of his career, and I'd rather have Zherdev than both of them. We have a lot of 3rd and 4th line players now, with brashear, boyle, i personally think prospal isn't that good so you could concievably count him.

I know most of us are die hard Rangers fans, but I am really worried that this team isn't equipped to be very good at all, this is one of the times I hope I am wrong. Our defense consists of Staal and Girardi, a couple of slow, shoddy defenders, and two young kids. Our lines are scattered with some decent scoring here and there, we don't really have a line that could strike fear in any team, just a few decent plays scattered around.

So thoughts and opinions would be greatly appreciated, and no he's not a real Ranger fan, I'm just looking at the team realisticly and looking for an intelligent discussion on how bad we'll be this year lol jk.

i think this team has a lot of boom or bust potential, and frankly anywhere in between. I think this season, more than any other, you really don't know what to expect. If Gaborik is healthy, and all the secondary scorers notch their 20-25 goals, and the defense stays steady and henrik is henrik, this team has the potential to be a top 3 team.....on the other hand if gaborik is hurt, or the scoring woes continue or we really were dependant on sjo and betts for the pk or the kids on D arent ready or the secondary scorers play like crap or torts starts snapping necks on the bench or.....this could be a very very long season.

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09-07-2009, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
i think this team has a lot of boom or bust potential, and frankly anywhere in between. I think this season, more than any other, you really don't know what to expect. If Gaborik is healthy, and all the secondary scorers notch their 20-25 goals, and the defense stays steady and henrik is henrik, this team has the potential to be a top 3 team.....on the other hand if gaborik is hurt, or the scoring woes continue or we really were dependant on sjo and betts for the pk or the kids on D arent ready or the secondary scorers play like crap or torts starts snapping necks on the bench or.....this could be a very very long season.
I guess, it seems like in a way your basically saying what I'm saying. You painted two completely polar opposite scenarios. I think I used to always go into a season thinking the first scenario (in which everyone will reach their potential and they all will doing their scoring responsibilites, i.e. the optimistic view). I think this is where it has changed for me, I now look at it scenario number two, the pessimistic view, thinking if I think the worst and they do better than that's great, but if they s**k then I'll be prepared for it ahaha.

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09-07-2009, 07:55 PM
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Go into the season with realistic expectations and you won't be disappointed. As currently comprised I think it's hard to argue this team is a favorite. There are too many question marks to really know how things are going to turn out. But I think they have a shot at the playoffs.

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09-07-2009, 07:56 PM
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I definitely think that 7th or 8th is releastic, but I'm not sure if they can make an impact come playoff time.

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09-07-2009, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by NYSportsfan6230 View Post
I definitely think that 7th or 8th is releastic, but I'm not sure if they can make an impact come playoff time.
right now i have us as a 6-10 finish in my head...ill be doing my season preview soon where i will really give it some thought...but yeah 7 or 8 is realisitic if for no other reason, we still have Henrik Lundqvist..

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09-07-2009, 08:10 PM
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I agree with inferno that we are a 6-10 team. Maybe even 4-10, but I wont be able to go that far until I've seen this team play the first 10 games of the season against a few teams (especially a team like the Penguins who they open up against, right?)

This team IMO, will make the playoffs. We added a legitimate scorer to a team that made the playoffs last season in 7 slot and almost knocked out washington in the 1st round. The one glaring hole in that playoff series, as it was all season, was the inability to score goals, especially on the PP. Adding guys like Gaborik and Kotalik to that PP will only make this team that much better. And yes we lost Betts and Sjostrom, but I highly doubt our PK will suffer that greatly because we still have guys like Cally, Drury, and most importantly, Lundqvist.

Yes the worst we can do IMO, is 10th and not a spot lower. But I also highly doubt we miss the playoffs.

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09-07-2009, 08:14 PM
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What is your plan to fix said weak offense?

Also it isn't shocking to believe the Rangers may be mediocre again, it's kind of a trend over the years.

But seriously this team has about 3-4 years before it really becomes legit, some of the bigger contracts will have expired or be expiring. The youth we have now will be taking over the veteran leadership roles, and some of the best prospects we have will be in the league. That's going to be nice, unless of course they decide to give up on that and start trading away prospects, but I honestly believe this team is on the right track now.

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09-07-2009, 08:16 PM
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I think one reason that alot of people are optimistic because this team is going to be radically different from any other Ranger team we have seen since before the lockout.

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09-07-2009, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Failure By Design View Post
What is your plan to fix said weak offense?

Also it isn't shocking to believe the Rangers may be mediocre again, it's kind of a trend over the years.

But seriously this team has about 3-4 years before it really becomes legit, some of the bigger contracts will have expired or be expiring. The youth we have now will be taking over the veteran leadership roles, and some of the best prospects we have will be in the league. That's going to be nice, unless of course they decide to give up on that and start trading away prospects, but I honestly believe this team is on the right track now.
I really dont believe the offense is that weak.

I wouldnt be surprised if some of those prospects make the jump this year by making the squad out of camp and having an impact on the team.

And I highly doubt Sather would trade any of the prospects. He has been very good with keeping our prospects and not trading them away the last 4 years. I dont see why he would change now when the farm system has grown this much.

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09-07-2009, 08:25 PM
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This is how I looked at the team that go me worried, let's say that everyone reaches around their potential, or at least what they had last year:

We lost:
- Naslund who had 25ish goals
- Antropov who had 28, even though not with us I think he was good with us.
- Zherdev, who with 25 could've only improved IMO
- Gomez who could probably put maybe 18-20
These were the main one's

We gained (estimated)
- Gaborik, who I think will have, I don't know let's say 35 to be realistic
- Kotalik who let's say has 25, about last years total
- Prospal, lets say 20, he had 19 last year
- Let's say Higgins has a big year and gets 20
- And let's say Lisin adds 15.

So, in total we lost 97ish goals, and we gained 115 give or take, so did our offense really improve that much, lets say that we add that 18 goal difference to what we had last year, which would give us 228, and that would place us middle of the pack anyways, I know it's a lot of math but these are just numbers if everyone is averages, so I really don't know...

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09-07-2009, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagr68NYR94Leetch View Post
I agree with inferno that we are a 6-10 team. Maybe even 4-10, but I wont be able to go that far until I've seen this team play the first 10 games of the season against a few teams (especially a team like the Penguins who they open up against, right?)
Didn't we start like 9-1 last year? The first 10 games dont really tell the whole story

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09-07-2009, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by NYSportsfan6230 View Post
This is how I looked at the team that go me worried, let's say that everyone reaches around their potential, or at least what they had last year:

We lost:
- Naslund who had 25ish goals
- Antropov who had 28, even though not with us I think he was good with us.
- Zherdev, who with 25 could've only improved IMO
- Gomez who could probably put maybe 18-20
These were the main one's

We gained (estimated)
- Gaborik, who I think will have, I don't know let's say 35 to be realistic
- Kotalik who let's say has 25, about last years total
- Prospal, lets say 20, he had 19 last year
- Let's say Higgins has a big year and gets 20
- And let's say Lisin adds 15.

So, in total we lost 97ish goals, and we gained 115 give or take, so did our offense really improve that much, lets say that we add that 18 goal difference to what we had last year, which would give us 228, and that would place us middle of the pack anyways, I know it's a lot of math but these are just numbers if everyone is averages, so I really don't know...
I think your comparison is exactly why this team will be better.

You also have to take into account that Higgins was hurt last year and that contributed to his poor performance and low point total. I think he will have a nice comeback year that could amount to around 25 goals.

Vinny Prospal was bought out and kicked to the curb by Tampa Bay after they handed him a nice contract in which he probably thought he'd be finishing up his career there. Yes he had a bad season last year, but he seems very much like the type of player who wants to prove people wrong badly. You could see it in what he had said after he signed with the Rangers. So he is definitely capable of 25 goals as well.

I strongly believe this is a much better team than last years. I think Dubinsky, once signed, will have a breakout year playing with Gaborik.

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09-07-2009, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by blue2noise View Post
Didn't we start like 9-1 last year? The first 10 games dont really tell the whole story
You're completely right, we did, and I strongly believe we fell off because of the coaching we had and players like zherdev and naslund who went missing for periods at a time.

Now I'm not saying guys like Prospal and Kotalik wont ever go missing either, but I do believe we have a much stronger coach who will make it less likely that they do. Gaborik is a superstar and will consistently put up points IMO.

You can even give it 20 games to evaluate what type of team we will have this year. My whole point is that right now, to be discussing where this team will be situated when that 82nd game rolls around, is impossible. There are so many open roster spots that will be filled by the youth, more than any year in the last 7-10 years. You dont know at all what this roster will be composed of and who will be on it. I dont know how you can even be guessing where this team will be finishing. Its like a blind man trying to cross a busy street with no assistance.

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09-07-2009, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Jagr68NYR94Leetch View Post
You're completely right, we did, and I strongly believe we fell off because of the coaching we had and players like zherdev and naslund who went missing for periods at a time.

Now I'm not saying guys like Prospal and Kotalik wont ever go missing either, but I do believe we have a much stronger coach who will make it less likely that they do. Gaborik is a superstar and will consistently put up points IMO.

You can even give it 20 games to evaluate what type of team we will have this year. My whole point is that right now, to be discussing where this team will be situated when that 82nd game rolls around, is impossible. There are so many open roster spots that will be filled by the youth, more than any year in the last 7-10 years. You dont know at all what this roster will be composed of and who will be on it. I dont know how you can even be guessing where this team will be finishing. Its like a blind man trying to cross a busy street with no assistance.
But these question marks are one of the main reasons why I don't feel so good about this team. Its hard to know, like you said, how good this team will be so thats why I don't understand why so many people feel so good about this team.

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09-07-2009, 09:00 PM
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But seriously this team has about 3-4 years before it really becomes legit.
I kind of agree...but personally think they can become a really good team in 2-3 years. Once again this year will be a major transition year...with a lot of new faces and guys getting used to one another and Tort's system over the course of a full season. So I'm not expecting much except for a strong effort every night. While I don't see us going the distance, I do expect to be entertained. Anything beyond that is a bonus.

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09-07-2009, 09:02 PM
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After the season i have endured with the mets, im finding myself overly pessimistic.

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09-07-2009, 09:24 PM
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Your first mistake was saying you would rather have gaborik than Zherdev

Your second mistake was saying Roszival was a slow defender. You can usually separate one category of fan from another from the ones that bash our #1 defender from the last 4 years.


There are serious issues with this team. But you highlighted some parts that really arent the main issues. We had Jag triple teamed in 05-06 and personally, I dont think Prucha, Nylander, and Straka are that much of a better supporting cast than Drury, Prospal, Kotalik.

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09-07-2009, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by NYSportsfan6230 View Post
This is how I looked at the team that go me worried, let's say that everyone reaches around their potential, or at least what they had last year:

We lost:
- Naslund who had 25ish goals HURRAY!
- Antropov who had 28, even though not with us I think he was good with us. HURRAY!
- Zherdev, who with 25 could've only improved IMO HURRAY!
- Gomez who could probably put maybe 18-20
These were the main one's HOLY HURRAY HOLY

We gained
- Gaborik, There is some risk, he has a history, but his upside could be astounding. You have to take a chance on this guy and since his contract basically replaces Scott Gomez HURRAY!
- Kotalik who let's say has 25, about last years total -- Zherdevs replacement it'll be a wash
- Prospal, lets say 20, he had 19 last year -- Contract year + alternating good year + Having something to prove = GREAT SIGNING...until we see otherwise, this could be the best bang for the buck signing of the summer
- Let's say Higgins has a big year and gets 20 - Contract year playing infront of his family hometown + It rid us of Gomez's contract HURRAY!
- And let's say Lisin adds 15.... LETS
Don't worry so much....this team today is OK. Not GREAT...but OK. If they work hard and find some chemistry, stay reasonably healthy they will make the playoffs and than ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN. If Henke gets hot they could be problems for the other teams.

New coach..HUGE turnover to the roster = NOBODY KNOWS

Sit back and enjoy watching this unfold

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09-07-2009, 09:43 PM
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You don't think Gabby was double teamed with Minny? He is impossible to contain when he is on his game. Also Zherdev would have ate **** under Torts for a whole season. There would be no improving from his 25 goals.

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09-07-2009, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by NYSportsfan6230 View Post
But these question marks are one of the main reasons why I don't feel so good about this team. Its hard to know, like you said, how good this team will be so thats why I don't understand why so many people feel so good about this team.
Because they are proactive... go talk to the Sabres fans or the Preds fans.... they suffer the loss and their GM ownership does little to address the issues

People feel good because they see the team trying to get better. Making steps to put a better team on the ice.

Its not a perfect science, but they are working it...

Its appeciated and it gets the fans interested, hopeful for a fun season and with a little luck, more success than last year.

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09-07-2009, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
Your first mistake was saying you would rather have gaborik than Zherdev

Your second mistake was saying Roszival was a slow defender. You can usually separate one category of fan from another from the ones that bash our #1 defender from the last 4 years.


There are serious issues with this team. But you highlighted some parts that really arent the main issues. We had Jag triple teamed in 05-06 and personally, I dont think Prucha, Nylander, and Straka are that much of a better supporting cast than Drury, Prospal, Kotalik.
I said I'd rather have Zherdev over Prospal, and maybe even over Kotalik becuase he still has his potential to be tapped while Prospal and Kotalik have pretty much hit there stride and cold argueably be on the downside of their career (mainly Prospal).

Rosival was a SOLID defender, not great. That's first off. Secondly throughout the course of the season I couldn't even count how many times he and Redden pinched, whether on the PP or even strenght, then they get flat-footed leaving Lundqvist to fend for himself. He is a competent defender, Rosival more so than Redden, but he IS Slow. I wouldn't necessrily call Rosival our number on defender anyways, Although he was up there in Time on the ice with Staal, I think in terms of Solely defenseive ablilities, the last two years Staal has been far and above our best defender (hence this is why Staal and Girardi played against other teams top lines, not any combination that involved Rosival or Redden, most of the time).

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09-07-2009, 09:58 PM
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You can throw most of what they did last year out the window...

You can BANK on Wade Redden having a better season this year under Torts.

Look at what Torts and Sather did to the roster... lol

Theres plenty to be pumped about....

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09-07-2009, 09:59 PM
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Staal may have the edge in Defensive awareness last season, i'll agree. But Rozy was coming off a big surgery, and I doubt Staal will contribute a 13 goal season in the near future.

Any defender gets caught at the blueline. Girardi, Kalinen had it happen all the time. Staal was the exception because he played a very defense first style.


As for Z, you have to look at it in term of cost-efficiency. We would have had him for 1 year at 3.9 million. Instead we locked up Kotalik AND Prospal for the same price it would have cost us to keep Zherdev. I would take Z over one of those two, but not both.

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09-07-2009, 10:00 PM
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I believe Prospal and Kotalik both bring more than Zherdev. Sure Nik Z may put up more points in a blowout game but he will always be heartless.

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