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Old
09-12-2009, 07:45 PM
  #226
SupersonicMonkey*
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How can anyone say this team is not talented?

It is considerably more talented then it was last year.

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09-12-2009, 07:58 PM
  #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
It's funny, before Tortorella got here, no one ever had a problem with the team's conditioning. Let me remind some people here: conditioning isn't why this team wasn't very good last year. Lack of talent was. From the looks of this year's roster, that hasn't really changed. Not much, at least. So don't be surprised in the middle of the season if the team is flying around the ice for 60 minutes and still losing games.
I don't disagree that the main problem last year was lack of talent, but just because lack of conditioning wasn't a buzz word at the time doesn't mean it wasn't apparent they lacked it.

The Rangers folded multiple times in the 3rd period under Renney, and were significantly outscored in the 3rd compared to other periods (Goal differential per period: +/- 0 in the 1st, +1 in the 2nd and -13 in the 3rd).

They also were 27th in winning percentage when leading after 1 period, and 21st when leading after 2.

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09-12-2009, 08:08 PM
  #228
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Actually, SM, in terms of PROVEN offensive NHL talent this team is very weak. They added one game breaker in Gaborik and a few grinders (higgins, kotalik) and an aging Prospal - who can all "chip in." But only Gabby is a true game changer. In turn, they lost Gomez, Naslund, Antropov, Zherdev - all top 6 talent.

From a pure skill level, while adding Gabby who is amazing - we did get weaker overall. We definitely improved grit, speed and aggressiveness - but did not grow in proven NHL talent. Players like Lisin, Anisimov, Del Zotto, Sanguinetti, Gilroy and Grachev have been pretty talented offensively in lesser leagues - but none of them are proven NHL offensive talent - YET.

Barring something unexpected, these kids will take at least a year or two to turn that potential into something more proven. And probably not all of them will. So, yes, this is a weaker team offensively than the team that finished last season? Maybe? It's about the same. Frankly, we are a bubble team at best.

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09-12-2009, 08:20 PM
  #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jabroni1994 View Post
[/B]

As long as the team is giving their all and trying to win the game, that's fine with me. Obviously, I'd rather have then win than lose, but if they lose, as least do it going down swinging.
Agreed, so many times it just looked like they quit while they were ahead, or didn't play a full 60 minutes resulting in a blown lead.

As for the conditioning, there were definitely some players last season who struggled physically once Torts was the coach. Mara and Naslund come to mind. I don't think it was a teamwide problem, just a handful of players. Now that Torts has had a hand in selecting players for the team, I'm assuming players' stamina and conditioning was a consideration.

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09-12-2009, 08:33 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
How can anyone say this team is not talented?

It is considerably more talented then it was last year.
Zherdev is a bigger talent than every forward on this team sans Gaborik, and as much as I hate Gomez (and you know I do), so is he. That doesn't mean I'm saying we shouldn't have traded him, just that I disagree with the general direction this team is being taken in, much like it has been since Sather took over.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian View Post
I don't disagree that the main problem last year was lack of talent, but just because lack of conditioning wasn't a buzz word at the time doesn't mean it wasn't apparent they lacked it.

The Rangers folded multiple times in the 3rd period under Renney, and were significantly outscored in the 3rd compared to other periods (Goal differential per period: +/- 0 in the 1st, +1 in the 2nd and -13 in the 3rd).

They also were 27th in winning percentage when leading after 1 period, and 21st when leading after 2.
And I'll reiterate: they'll still be losing games, regardless of their conditioning, because they still lack talent, and that is a much bigger problem than conditioning. I don't remember conditioning being a very big problem with the Islanders last season, but they didn't win many games.

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09-12-2009, 09:31 PM
  #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
I don't remember conditioning being a very big problem with the Islanders last season, but they didn't win many games.
Humor me, what was the Islanders conditioning like last year since you seem to know how they ran it?

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09-12-2009, 09:55 PM
  #232
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We'll have to wait and see how the team meshes before we say that this team will be mediocre. I do think how Tortorella's conditioning plan may help the team play a full 60 minutes...how many leads did last years team blow... the game in Toronto and the home game against the Caps immediately pop in my head.

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09-12-2009, 10:04 PM
  #233
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another part of why we tired so much late in games last year was because we so often played in our own zone. if ur always defending and protecting ur net ur gonna wear down over 60 mins.

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Old
09-12-2009, 10:22 PM
  #234
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Im so on the fence with this team.

I definitely like the lineup better than last season - they just flat out have a better team when all is said and done IMO. I think Tortorella is going to help this team. I think the PP will be better (it has nowhere to go but up.) I am convinced Drury is going to have a better year.

But how they fall into place with the rest of the league is interesting. Its tough for me to project where this team will end up. With such a large turnover its tough to predict if theyll have the necessary chemistry to make some noise in a extremely tough division. IT depends on how things break, health and how quickly they (i hate using this word) "Gel".

So i dont think its crazy to say they will miss the playoffs this year, or with a couple of holes filled, a bonus in contribution from some rookies and a healthy Gaborik be somewhere near the top of the conference.

I'm eager to see how this team looks on the ice, but i must admit going in my enthusiasm is very tempered to say the least. I think with the past years and all that has gone on each summer i am more pessimistic than optimistic, even though they made a significant coaching change in my eyes.

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Old
09-12-2009, 10:41 PM
  #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAmarante View Post
Humor me, what was the Islanders conditioning like last year since you seem to know how they ran it?
I don't recall implying that I know their training regiment or how Gordon ran the team. What I do know is that I saw them enough times to know that it wasn't an issue for them. Not on a team wide basis, at least.

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Old
09-12-2009, 10:44 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by Chariot View Post
Actually he had a previous surgery on the opposite hip the year before....yep
same as Sauer did. It's congenital.

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09-12-2009, 10:49 PM
  #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
I don't recall implying that I know their training regiment or how Gordon ran the team. What I do know is that I saw them enough times to know that it wasn't an issue for them. Not on a team wide basis, at least.
My only point is there are so many wild cards on this team. I feel like anything is possible, certain parts click and we're in business. Maybe we suck, maybe we're decent, who knows. Everyone is getting so down on the team, lets have a some positive feelings.

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09-12-2009, 10:55 PM
  #238
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anyone read this yet?

http://rangers.nhl.com/club/news.htm...id=nyr-home-dl

Quote:
“I’ve been through a lot,” Drury stated after the first day of camp on Saturday. “But nothing like this.”
Quote:
“The first two (sprints) were bad, obviously,” newcomer Christopher Higgins joked. “And the next three to (four) were equally as awful.”
Quote:
“Overall, I think the guys feel better, that they are in better shape going into this season,” said Drury. “I am pretty sure that just about every guy started skating way earlier than they would have ever started heading into camp. I think overall everyone feels more prepared heading into the season.”
The Renney digs continue out of Drury's mouth lol

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Old
09-12-2009, 10:56 PM
  #239
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Actually I don't think last years' subpar performance on offense was that much a lack of talent. Naslund, Zherdev, Gomez, Drury had plenty of skill. Arguably younger players like Dawes and Prucha could help out with the offense as well. The problem was too many of the above were just a bunch of dancers. There's not a lot size there. There's not a lot of grit either. I think while we might have a little less established talent coming in we should be a lot better in the size and grit areas. As well younger guys are moving up the food chain particularly Grachev and Anisimov who should be able to establish themselves in the finesse department but still have the size and strength where the physical side of the game won't be a problem. Just saying--there may be growing pains but overall I see reasons to feel positive about the direction we're going.

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Old
09-12-2009, 11:11 PM
  #240
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EG Quotes

Quote:
Evgeny Grachev, meanwhile, was among the third group to take their laps today and is one of a number whose first meeting with Tortorella was hearing him bark at them to “push it, keep skating.” Grachev said afterward that he was pleased with his play at Traverse City this week - Gordie Clark, the Rangers’ director of player personnel, called it “dominating” at times - and that he felt a confidence that had been building throughout his 2008-09 season with the Brampton Battalion, his first in North America.

Quote:
About that growing confidence, he said: “Yeah, for sure, last season gave me a lot to get used to this type of game, the rinks. I understand the game better, I know what to expect from my opponents.”


http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/rangers/#ixzz0QxMTNPQJ

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09-12-2009, 11:36 PM
  #241
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any word on how anisimov is holding up out there?

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Old
09-12-2009, 11:54 PM
  #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
And I'll reiterate: they'll still be losing games, regardless of their conditioning, because they still lack talent, and that is a much bigger problem than conditioning. I don't remember conditioning being a very big problem with the Islanders last season, but they didn't win many games.
Just because it wasn't the biggest problem doesn't mean it wasn't a problem and shouldn't be addressed.

The reason you don't know anything about the Islanders conditing is because no one cared if they won or lost, they were projected to be terrible and were terrible. Just like the past three years, this team is a 5-10 seed on paper, where four or five games will determine home ice in the playoffs or watching from home. They've been soft finishing games since the lockout, I'll take my chances with an enhanced conditioning schedule helping to fix some of that, better than just ignoring it.

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Old
09-12-2009, 11:59 PM
  #243
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Actually I don't think last years' subpar performance on offense was that much a lack of talent. Naslund, Zherdev, Gomez, Drury had plenty of skill.
What???

Where do you people come up with this nonsense? Are you kidding me? Do I really need to explain how completely ludicrous this comment is?

Naslund was a shell of himself. He was slow, his hands were like stone compared to what they once were. His shot was still decent enough that he was worth having around, but aside from his shot, he was basically useless.

I don't mind Zherdev, and I thought we should have kept him, but he's a mediocre 2nd liner, and so is Gomez.

And Drury...for ****'s sake, Drury isn't even a skill player. He's a grinder with a good shot. Dancer? The only time Drury could even think about pulling off anything resembling a deke is in the shootout.

One of the worst groups of forwards in the league. Not a single first-line forward among them.

Quote:
Arguably younger players like Dawes and Prucha could help out with the offense as well.
Except they didn't. Nor will they ever.

Quote:
The problem was too many of the above were just a bunch of dancers. There's not a lot size there. There's not a lot of grit either.
There wasn't size or grit, but that was hardly the big problem. The problem was that the roster consisted of a bunch of 2nd and 3rd line players. That was the problem.

Big and strong 2nd and 3rd liners are still 2nd and 3rd liners.

Quote:
I think while we might have a little less established talent coming in we should be a lot better in the size and grit areas. As well younger guys are moving up the food chain particularly Grachev and Anisimov who should be able to establish themselves in the finesse department but still have the size and strength where the physical side of the game won't be a problem. Just saying--there may be growing pains but overall I see reasons to feel positive about the direction we're going.
What a surprise! Another Glen Sather Ranger club with nothing but a bunch of question marks and all hope resting on the back of one player, who, not surprisingly, is also a huge question mark. Yay!

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Old
09-13-2009, 12:08 AM
  #244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian View Post
Just because it wasn't the biggest problem doesn't mean it wasn't a problem and shouldn't be addressed.

The reason you don't know anything about the Islanders conditing is because no one cared if they won or lost, they were projected to be terrible and were terrible. Just like the past three years, this team is a 5-10 seed on paper, where four or five games will determine home ice in the playoffs or watching from home. They've been soft finishing games since the lockout, I'll take my chances with an enhanced conditioning schedule helping to fix some of that, better than just ignoring it.
Here's a thought: maybe they wouldn't be a 5-10 seed who needed to worry about four or five games if they weren't built, yet again, to be a completely mediocre team.

Here's another thought: maybe if less time was spent thinking about conditioning, something that was hardly a problem to begin with, and more time was devoted to using intelligence in roster building and learning from previous mistakes, then they might be a team that wouldn't have to worry so much about four or five games.

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09-13-2009, 12:14 AM
  #245
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Man remember i hated skating drills in HS hockey... and that was just public HS hockey... i can't even imagine the skating drills they're going through.

It makes me want to puke just thinking about it, ha!

Hopefully this mentality and effort doesn't fizzle at any point in the year.

They need to keep it going, all the way.

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09-13-2009, 12:21 AM
  #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Man remember i hated skating drills in HS hockey... and that was just public HS hockey... i can't even imagine the skating drills they're going through.

It makes me want to puke just thinking about it, ha!

Hopefully this mentality and effort doesn't fizzle at any point in the year.

They need to keep it going, all the way.
Haha I agree man, I cant image what they are going through...

Im sure they will keep it going, Torts is not one to lay off things mid way through.

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Old
09-13-2009, 01:09 AM
  #247
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Oh, my heart bleeds for the pain and suffering these poor, poor hockey have to go through.

Give me a break. Try standing on your feet for 10-12 hours at a time for $8/hr, day in and day out 50 weeks a year and tell me how hard professional hockey players have it during training camp. Cry me a freakin' river.

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Old
09-13-2009, 01:21 AM
  #248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Here's a thought: maybe they wouldn't be a 5-10 seed who needed to worry about four or five games if they weren't built, yet again, to be a completely mediocre team.

Here's another thought: maybe if less time was spent thinking about conditioning, something that was hardly a problem to begin with, and more time was devoted to using intelligence in roster building and learning from previous mistakes, then they might be a team that wouldn't have to worry so much about four or five games.
There is zero correlation, so I don't know what point you are trying to make other than you dislike this current team, which is certainly your own prerogative.

Everyone knows Sather is an inept GM, but it's not like he's spending time drawing up running maps or teaching the staff plyo drills instead of negotiating contracts. This "Torts guy" bs has run its course, he's had limited to no roster roster input, just like Renney and every other coach before him.

It's the coach's job (along with assistants/trainers/etc) to run the camp and get as much as they can out of this flawed team. If having a well conditioned team is their opinion on how to do it, then frankly I hope it works. There is nothing that they can do to make this team a true cup contender within reason, but maybe if they add some tinfoil and polish this turd it will be slightly appealing.

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Old
09-13-2009, 01:35 AM
  #249
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Sting you act like u have behind the scene access to the Rangers locker room. You don't! If an NHL coach says his team needs to work on conditioning then I will believe him and not listen to the stupid **** you have to say. Do us all a favour and stop posting your garbage.

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Old
09-13-2009, 01:57 AM
  #250
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Ryan McDonagh wasn't invited?

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