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Old
04-06-2004, 11:50 PM
  #26
momentai
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Originally Posted by Behind Enemy Lines
Harding deserved to make this team.

I really like Deslauriers' potential and feel he will develop into a solid pro. But at this point in time the better player won the nod for the National Junior team.
I wasn't trying to diminish Harding as a player at all. I thought he played solid in the camp... merely that Deslauriers had to be *that* much better than Harding over the camp in order to make it. Not a knock on Harding at all as a goaltender... Just that the odds were relatively stacked against Deslauriers to make the team - fair or not. That's why I wasn't surprised at all JDD was not selected and Harding was.

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04-07-2004, 12:08 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by momentai
I wasn't trying to diminish Harding as a player at all. I thought he played solid in the camp... merely that Deslauriers had to be *that* much better than Harding over the camp in order to make it. Not a knock on Harding at all as a goaltender... Just that the odds were relatively stacked against Deslauriers to make the team - fair or not. That's why I wasn't surprised at all JDD was not selected and Harding was.
Deslauriers had a poor start to this season and was inconsistent. Harding has a trackrecord as a franchise goalie dating back to his stellar WHL debut at 16. His play has been consistently above average during his whole junior career. Most recently playing in front of bad teams. Throw Cam Ward into the mix with great stats on very good teams and it is clear the decision is very, very tough to make.

My comments go back to threads in December which alleged politics played a role. Looking at track record and play in camp I think Harding deserved the nod and therefore wasn't surprised with all things considered. To rehash this again is pointless.

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04-07-2004, 12:19 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Behind Enemy Lines
My comments go back to threads in December which alleged politics played a role. Looking at track record and play in camp I think Harding deserved the nod and therefore wasn't surprised with all things considered. To rehash this again is pointless.
Again, I'm not surprised. But when the coaches themselves said that international experience was a definite consideration... I knew that regardless of how well Deslauriers played, he was going to be relatively behind the 8-ball. Nothing wrong with that at all. That's all I was trying to get at. (Nothing mentioned about play during the year at all)

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04-07-2004, 01:22 PM
  #29
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JDD is probably the second best goalie in the Q this year next to Fleury. That has to mean something. Many people believe that one of the major reasons JDD didn't make this year's Team Canada roster is because they didn't want two Q goalies on the team again for fear of favourtism.

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04-07-2004, 01:32 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by oilerrick
JDD is probably the second best goalie in the Q this year next to Fleury. That has to mean something. Many people believe that one of the major reasons JDD didn't make this year's Team Canada roster is because they didn't want two Q goalies on the team again for fear of favourtism.
Not that I've seen any of the games, but I'm very pleased with his run in the playoffs so far. Seems to be winning a lot of the close games, and outperforming Fleury by all accounts. Not that I expect him to be a better goalie than Fleury, but the fact that he plays well in the playoffs, means a lot to me.

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Old
04-07-2004, 01:40 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Behind Enemy Lines
I have read opinions expressed before about politics playing a role in Harding's selection over Deslauriers. I feel this diminishes Harding's play and track record in earning the nod. Have a look at Harding's stats in the WHL which includes major personal awards. I have seen him play many times and excel in front of average Regina Pats teams. I also watched these two goalies (along with Ward and Fleury) play in the Nat's Summer Camp. Harding deserved to make this team.

I really like Deslauriers' potential and feel he will develop into a solid pro. But at this point in time the better player won the nod for the National Junior team.
I went to most of the public stuff at the selection camp, and JDD out-performed every goaltender there (including Fleury).

Granted, I understand that the selection camp is only part of the evaluation, but too be fair, no one really gets to watch all these guys play. I mean you watch Harding all the time, and you saw him do better than JDD in the summer. That's fine, your opinion is based on that.

I saw JDD and them at the main selection camp, and my opinion is based on that. I haven't watched much of either guy outside of that, but in that camp, JDD was the best goaltender there.

Just like Brodziak. He was at least the 3rd best centre there. Most of the guys I don't get to see very much, so I am basing it on that selection camp. You can only judge on what you see, and from what I saw at the selection camp, team Canada missed the boat on both picks.

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Old
04-07-2004, 10:04 PM
  #32
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Just to add an update, JDD won again this evening, outdueling M-A Fleury.

JDD faced 34 in the 3-2 Win, while Fleury faced 26 shots.

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Old
04-07-2004, 10:56 PM
  #33
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To me we have one of the top five goalie prospects. JDD has the next superstar french goalie written all over him. Out performing the most hyped goalie not in the NHL is something to really be impressed with - especially three games in a row in the playoffs! Now, I know that JDD is a one in a decadecillion shot to ever get the that level - but just like Brodeur JDD slipped back a good bit behind anglophone goalies. The only goalie that, looking back, is worth more then JDD is Kari obviously - and IMO he's the best goalie prospect in the world (yes better then Fleury who had a great tournament and the hype followed).

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04-07-2004, 11:06 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by thome_26
To me we have one of the top five goalie prospects. JDD has the next superstar french goalie written all over him. Out performing the most hyped goalie not in the NHL is something to really be impressed with - especially three games in a row in the playoffs! Now, I know that JDD is a one in a decadecillion shot to ever get the that level - but just like Brodeur JDD slipped back a good bit behind anglophone goalies. The only goalie that, looking back, is worth more then JDD is Kari obviously - and IMO he's the best goalie prospect in the world (yes better then Fleury who had a great tournament and the hype followed).
lets not get too excited man. you might be setting yourself up for disappointment

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04-07-2004, 11:10 PM
  #35
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I'm not getting to excited at all. Simple fact is that JDD has out played the most hyped goalie since forever three games in a row in the playoffs as well as winning all kinds of player of the week/month/day whatever. Of course there is a chance for every prospect to flop - doesn't mean you can't be optimisitic instaed of pessimistic.

And if you think that I was being out of touch with the comparison to Brodeur - make sure you take note on the part where i said he has next to no chance of ever reaching that level - nobody expects that.

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Old
04-07-2004, 11:12 PM
  #36
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Just a quick question outkast...

when have you ever seen JDD play?

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04-07-2004, 11:27 PM
  #37
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On both the scoreboard and in terms of stats - JDD is killing Fleury - nice to see

Here is the link to the series stats:

http://www.lhjmq.qc.ca/lang_en/index...ison=2&group=H

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Old
04-07-2004, 11:39 PM
  #38
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With JDD's great play all season i dont see why we have to draft a goalie in this draft i say wait till next year and see how well JDD plays as a rookie in the AHL until using a first rounder on a goalie.

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Old
04-08-2004, 12:58 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
I went to most of the public stuff at the selection camp, and JDD out-performed every goaltender there (including Fleury).

Granted, I understand that the selection camp is only part of the evaluation, but too be fair, no one really gets to watch all these guys play. I mean you watch Harding all the time, and you saw him do better than JDD in the summer. That's fine, your opinion is based on that.

I saw JDD and them at the main selection camp, and my opinion is based on that. I haven't watched much of either guy outside of that, but in that camp, JDD was the best goaltender there.

Just like Brodziak. He was at least the 3rd best centre there. Most of the guys I don't get to see very much, so I am basing it on that selection camp. You can only judge on what you see, and from what I saw at the selection camp, team Canada missed the boat on both picks.
Dawbone, I appreciate and respect your opinions. And I don't doubt your opinion JDD may have had the best camp in December. However I think the coaches selection likely factored in many variables mentioned here: track record, camp performances, international experience. For a backup position, the Canadian Nats probably couldn't have gone wrong with either Harding, JDD, or Ward for that matter.

However to say Team Canada missed the boat on overlooking JDD, here is Harding's stats in his only appearance in the WJT. Hard to improve on perfect - even given the quality of opponent faced. Harding did his job when called up.

Rank Name No Team G GIP MIP SOG GA GAA SVS SVS%
1 HARDING Josh 35 CAN 6 1 60:00 11 0 0.00 11 100.00%

As far as other posters and conspiracy theorists about 'political' concerns about selecting two Francophone goalies, Team Canada has done just many times in past years -1996 (Theodore, Denis); 1997 (Denis, Biron); 1998 (Luongo, Garon); and 2002 (LeClaire, Michaud). IF anything, given the heavy Western content on this year's team, if politics played a factor in things it might have helped JDD's case to bulk up in Francophone content.

I might agree with you about Brodziak getting a raw deal. He played great all year and in the December camp. However he was in tough having not attended the Summer camp and basically emerging out of nowhere. Eric Fehr would have likely made my team. He was a demon at the Summer Camp.

Hard to argue against those selected when we were one sloppy period away from the Gold medal.

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Old
04-08-2004, 01:48 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBrew
With JDD's great play all season i dont see why we have to draft a goalie in this draft i say wait till next year and see how well JDD plays as a rookie in the AHL until using a first rounder on a goalie.
I like JDD's chances as possibly making the NHL and perhaps become a star/solid starting goalie for the Oilers one day, but it never hurts to draft fill the shelf with prospects in a department a team is weak in. This years draft has some impressive goaltenders availible. Montoya, Schwarz... If those two are picked up early in the draft I would pick up Dubnyk with the Philly pick, or Ellis in the second round. I would not use the first pick for a goalie, I think a high grade scorer is what Edmonton desperately needs.

GXL

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Old
04-08-2004, 01:52 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GorillazXL
I like JDD's chances as possibly making the NHL and perhaps become a star/solid starting goalie for the Oilers one day, but it never hurts to draft fill the shelf with prospects in a department a team is weak in. This years draft has some impressive goaltenders availible. Montoya, Schwarz... If those two are picked up early in the draft I would pick up Dubnyk with the Philly pick, or Ellis in the second round. I would not use the first pick for a goalie, I think a high grade scorer is what Edmonton desperately needs.

GXL
Agree with you GXL. I'd look at Dubnyk with the second first rounder. I guess he has had a somewhat inconsistent year. But this guy is huge and athletic. Upside could be very good and add some quality depth to a weak position in our system.

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04-08-2004, 08:57 AM
  #42
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i have always had a feeling that JDD will be a starter and a top 15 starter at that, just will take a much longer time to develop into that.

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Old
04-08-2004, 09:02 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Behind Enemy Lines
Dawbone, I appreciate and respect your opinions. And I don't doubt your opinion JDD may have had the best camp in December. However I think the coaches selection likely factored in many variables mentioned here: track record, camp performances, international experience. For a backup position, the Canadian Nats probably couldn't have gone wrong with either Harding, JDD, or Ward for that matter.

However to say Team Canada missed the boat on overlooking JDD, here is Harding's stats in his only appearance in the WJT. Hard to improve on perfect - even given the quality of opponent faced. Harding did his job when called up.

Rank Name No Team G GIP MIP SOG GA GAA SVS SVS%
1 HARDING Josh 35 CAN 6 1 60:00 11 0 0.00 11 100.00%

As far as other posters and conspiracy theorists about 'political' concerns about selecting two Francophone goalies, Team Canada has done just many times in past years -1996 (Theodore, Denis); 1997 (Denis, Biron); 1998 (Luongo, Garon); and 2002 (LeClaire, Michaud). IF anything, given the heavy Western content on this year's team, if politics played a factor in things it might have helped JDD's case to bulk up in Francophone content.

I might agree with you about Brodziak getting a raw deal. He played great all year and in the December camp. However he was in tough having not attended the Summer camp and basically emerging out of nowhere. Eric Fehr would have likely made my team. He was a demon at the Summer Camp.

Hard to argue against those selected when we were one sloppy period away from the Gold medal.
I was just kind of defending my reasoning for saying JDD got passed over wrongfully. I was one of the guys who said JDD shouldn't have been cut, and that was pretty much my reason why. Like I said, I don't see much of them in the regular season, but at the selection camp, I saw alot of all the goaltenders and that is what formed my opinion. I felt it was kind of useless looking at stats because the Q and the Dub are so different it is tough to compare them.

And to be brutally honest, I was even the one who questioned whether or not Fleury should have been an automatic selection as well.

I know, I hate hindsight arguments, but 2 years in a row, shoddy goaltending at the WJC's has hurt Canada. Last year it was Lenevue this season Fleury wasn't nearly as good as he should have been.

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04-08-2004, 11:17 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBrew
With JDD's great play all season i dont see why we have to draft a goalie in this draft i say wait till next year and see how well JDD plays as a rookie in the AHL until using a first rounder on a goalie.

Gotta disagree Brew. Goalies are high risk prospects at best. I think Lowe and KP would be best to draft a bunch of goalies and hope one or two work out. Trevor Kidd was the most highly rated goalie in his draft year and look at how well he turned out. Same with Jamie Storr ( though I wouldn't right him off just yet)



T

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04-08-2004, 12:12 PM
  #45
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I'm another one who thinks we could use another blue chip goalie prospect in the organization. You never know with goalies, and throwing all of your eggs in one basket does not make sense. Say we don't draft another NHL-potential goalie and JDD doesn't pan out (which we won't know for at least two years)... you have to either trade from a position of weakness or draft again, which takes a long time. Both situations are far from ideal.

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04-08-2004, 12:55 PM
  #46
AVE MAN
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Originally Posted by kyle
When did you see him play? Against who?

I HAVE seen him play. He's got the size and the vision that are prerequisites to playing in this league. He also brings a lot more. He's biggest attribute is his side-to-side movement. I've yet to see a goalie move laterally as well as he does outside of the NHL. I haven't seen him play much (2 or 3 times) but I've been heartily impressed.

What exactly in his game did you see that merits such a subpar review from you? What fundamental flaw was prevolent?
He(outkast) has no response to your post but keeps regurgitating his unfounded comments with no logical explanation but to stir the pot. Don't you guys call that a troll?

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04-08-2004, 01:15 PM
  #47
kyle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVE MAN
He(outkast) has no response to your post but keeps regurgitating his unfounded comments with no logical explanation but to stir the pot. Don't you guys call that a troll?
I call it a lot of things.. most get me banned.. troll is an acceptable substitute.

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