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Old
09-05-2009, 02:27 AM
  #51
Usual_Suspect
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaphod42 View Post
- Pioneer make some of the best TVs and are AWESOME but are lots of $$$.

It is debatable if you can actually see the difference of i vs p.

HD TV is broadcasted in 1080i; Blu-ray is true 1080p.

You need 3 things for HD.
1. a TV that can display it
2. a source that can send it (HD PVR or box, Blu-ray, PS3[the best Blu-ray player])
3. The one thing people seem to NEVER know about is the HD CABLE. The only HD cable capable of sending 1080p is an HDMI cable, they are lots of $$$ but they are a must (DON’T CHEAP out on them spend between $60 - $100 on each)
Some errors in your post:

- Pioneer used to make great Plasmas (known for great black levels). They no longer make plasma screens and by March 2010 they will stop making TVs altogether.
- There is no debate that 1080p is better resolution than 1080i and that the difference can be seen. You are getting half as much information on 1080i as 1080p. Many people rate 720p higher than 1080i.
- HDTV is broadcast in 720p or 1080i
- DirecTv now broadcasts movies in 1080p
- HDMI cables are not lots of $$$. All of the evidence is that "cheap" HDMI cables are as good as expensive ones.


Last edited by Usual_Suspect: 09-05-2009 at 02:40 AM.
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09-05-2009, 02:49 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Usual_Suspect View Post
Some errors in your post:

- Pioneer used to make great Plasmas (known for great black levels). They no longer make plasma screens and by March 2010 they will stop making TVs altogether.
- HDTV is broadcast in 720p or 1080i
- DirecTv now broadcasts movies in 1080p
- HDMI cables are not lots of $$$. All of the evidence is that "cheap" HDMI cables are as good as expensive ones.
I stopped installing home theaters about 8 months ago and am not in the industry anymore, I remember hearing something about them stop making TVs soon. Still they were very nice TVs although super expensive.

In regards to the HDMI cables there is a lot of debate, I have seen are few of the shows that test HDMI cables and say they are all the same BUT on the ones I saw they weren't testing true 1080p signals (specifically Blu-ray) I also pointed out how its debatable whether you can see the difference between the 1080p and 1080i so really if you dont notice a difference by all means scrap the higher priced HDMI cables, I will say this that "mathematically" certain HDMI cables are in fact better BUT once again, whether you can see the difference.... People do buy HDMI cables that only display 720p and 1080i becasue they are $30 but the ones that do 1080p are usually upwards of $60.

in regards to the 1080p 1080i, 1080p is definitely better but in my experience most people dont notice a difference, the basic custumer doesn't always know what they are looking for therefore it becomes debatable, however I notice a huge difference in
Blu-ray compared to just 1080p but that also has other things involved than just lines of resolution. Basically what im saying is there is a lot more personal preference involved and it comes down to what you think "looks" the best

Like I said this was from 8 months ago, maybe things have changed HDMI wise but this was from my experiences.

Another note, TVs look AWESOME hanging on the wall with the cables hidden in the wall, obviously its more $ but it looks better than any other way (I used to install them like that)


Last edited by Toydarian: 09-05-2009 at 03:00 AM.
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09-05-2009, 03:10 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaphod42 View Post
I stopped installing home theaters about 8 months ago and am not in the industry anymore, I remember hearing something about them stop making TVs soon. Still they were very nice TVs although super expensive.

In regards to the HDMI cables there is a lot of debate, I have seen are few of the shows that test HDMI cables and say they are all the same BUT on the ones I saw they weren't testing true 1080p signals (specifically Blu-ray) I also pointed out how its debatable whether you can see the difference between the 1080p and 1080i so really if you dont notice a difference by all means scrap the higher priced HDMI cables, I will say this that "mathematically" certain HDMI cables are in fact better BUT once again, whether you can see the difference.... People do buy HDMI cables that only display 720p and 1080i becasue they are $30 but the ones that do 1080p are usually upwards of $60.

in regards to the 1080p 1080i, 1080p is definitely better but in my experience most people dont notice a difference, the basic custumer doesn't always know what they are looking for therefore it becomes debatable, however I notice a huge difference in
Blu-ray compared to just 1080p but that also has other things involved than just lines of resolution. Basically what im saying is there is a lot more personal preference involved and it comes down to what you think "looks" the best

Like I said this was from 8 months ago, maybe things have changed HDMI wise but this was from my experiences.

Another note, TVs look AWESOME hanging on the wall with the cables hidden in the wall, obviously its more $ but it looks better than any other way (I used to install them like that)
I edited my previous post after you quoted it. I'll re-post.

There is no debate that 1080p is better resolution than 1080i and that the difference can be seen. You are getting half as much information on 1080i as 1080p. Many people rate 720p higher than 1080i.

The bigger the TV the more obvious the difference is. Maybe you haven't seen people notice this because they are viewing on a small TV.

As for cables, you are completely misinformed.

Your position is that the shows that you have seen didn't test 1080p so the tests you haven't personally seen didn't test 1080p either? I think I'll trust the experts.

"People buy HDMI cables that only support 720p or 1080i"?? All HDMI that claims it supports 1080p must support 1080p.

An HDMI 1.3 cable compared to another HDMI 1.3 cable from a different manufacturer are the same standard.


Last edited by Usual_Suspect: 09-05-2009 at 03:22 AM.
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Old
09-05-2009, 03:18 AM
  #54
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If your planning on using the tv very often you may want to stick to LCD rather than a Plasma because 'picture burn in' is a problem but i've heard they came out with anti-burn in now for the plasma. the 120hz or 240hz is really only for gaming because you actually need to turn it off when you want to watch movies or else it will look really weird. Make sure you read up reviews for the tv you want.

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Old
09-05-2009, 03:27 AM
  #55
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No not all HDMI cables Support 1080p. The company I used to work for (along with all the other large Electronics stores) sell cheaper HDMI that do not support 1080p, I know with 100% accuracy that is the case.

I said the programs on TV I saw did not test 1080p, but I installed hundreds of TVs and saw the 1080p vs. 1080i on TVs as large as 65" and projectors even bigger. I noticed a difference but what I am saying is some people dont see a difference which is why it is debatable, not saying that it is the same. I for one consider 1080p superior to 1080i but from experience some people did not notice a difference. that is all I am saying, some people cant tell.

To say I was inexperienced on the things I was installing is quite unfair.

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Old
09-05-2009, 06:59 AM
  #56
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There is no difference in quality from a cheap HDMI cable to an expensive one, it's digital signal, unlike VGA, Component, etc, which are analog. There would be a loss in quality over long runs of cable, I mean like 50' or more, something most of us don't have to worry about. A friend of mine actually bought some 50' cables on ebay, and rans them in the floor when he was building his house, no real signal loss.
PS- HDMI cables have always been 1080p compatible, since the first version came out. It wouldnt be any cheaper to not have 1080p output, I don't know where you are getting your info from, but all it is, is wires on pins... Even then I don't know if having less pins is even possible, because HDMI is data lines.

HDMI Pinout:
Pin 1 TMDS Data2+
Pin 2 TMDS Data2 Shield
Pin 3 TMDS Data2–
Pin 4 TMDS Data1+
Pin 5 TMDS Data1 Shield
Pin 6 TMDS Data1–
Pin 7 TMDS Data0+
Pin 8 TMDS Data0 Shield
Pin 9 TMDS Data0–
Pin 10 TMDS Clock+
Pin 11 TMDS Clock Shield
Pin 12 TMDS Clock–
Pin 13 CEC
Pin 14 Reserved (N.C. on device)
Pin 15 SCL
Pin 16 SDA
Pin 17 DDC/CEC Ground
Pin 18 +5 V Power (max 50 mA)
Pin 19 Hot Plug Detect

Now, there is different categories that these cables are tested it, there is category 1 cable, which is tested at 74MHz (720p/1080i) but that doesnt mean the sable cannot produce 1080p, it's just what it was tested at. It's still capable of producing full hd, but over long runs of cable you may experience some "blinking".


Last edited by Teddy Peckman: 09-05-2009 at 07:30 AM.
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Old
09-05-2009, 07:42 AM
  #57
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The first thing you need to do is to establish your budget and what you will be primarily watching. From here you can think about the size of TV you might want.

At this point I would say that 32" is considered a bare minimum. Since I have a great preference for plasma (dollar for dollar lcd's can't come close) I would suggest looking at 40+ so that you can bring the 42" plasmas into the picture.

For 42" plasmas, I would look at Panasonic and Samsung. On the LCD side, Samsung is probably the best bet for value, though Sony's XBR series is the best product. I would saty away fron Sharp right now (I own an older Sharp and a Sony LCD as well as a Pioneer Plasma as a disclaimer).

As far as where to go, in Edmonton I like Visions over BB or FS, since they will usually be very aggressive on price. Always ask for the best price they can give you. I am not a believer in extended warrenties. Plasmas and LCD's have about a 2-3%
failure rate with the vast majority of issues coming soon after purchase. Instead use a credit card that extends the warrenty and you will be better off.

You can get some older generation stuff at Costco a a great price, if you are careful.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Usual_Suspect View Post
This is not the best list! You will have a very difficult time trying to find many that would put the Panasonic Plasmas above the Pioneer Signature\Elite or their KRP 500M (the KRP 500M is not available in Canada).

For anyone in the market for a great TV, Pioneer has slashed their prices on their Singature Elite Plasmas. The 50" model can be found for $2700-3000, which while pricey is actually an incedible deal for what is likely the best TV ever made. These panels are reported to have part of Pioneer's 10th generation technology included in them. Be aware though that this is a monitor, so it doesn not have a tuner or speakers. Your cable box acts as the tuner and any HT in a box would be a far better sound option than any TV's speakers anyway.

One thing people don't consider when they are looking for a big TV is the possibility of a front projector. If you have a room in your basement that is at least 10x10 that can be kept fiarly dark, you can have a great HT with a 100+ picture for about the same cost as a good 50" TV with much less effort than most people would expect. Many of today's front projectors are etremely user friendly.


Last edited by Fourier: 09-05-2009 at 10:02 AM.
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Old
09-05-2009, 09:05 AM
  #58
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I recommend an LCD. When I got my first three, all Plasma and LCD's were a good $5500+. They're dirt cheap now. You can get a really nice one for about $1700+.

The refresh rate will increase the price if you need it. You can get 600HZ, but I would aim higher.

I have 1 Sony and 3 Samsungs so far. I've had 1 blow out and that's the only Plasma I bought. Samsungs always good.

If you go to a big box store, the only leverage you will have is if you buy warranty. Don't buy rip off "Monster" cables, HDMI cables, etc.

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09-05-2009, 10:33 AM
  #59
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Okay since there are some experts here I want to throw out my question if the OP doesn't mind.

Got a 42" Grand Wega LCD 2 1/2 years ago and about 6 months ago I started getting a faint red strip across the top of the screen about 4" wide. Kind of pissed me off but you don't notice it unless you are looking for it. Now sometimes it looks like I get a faint blue strip along the bottom 2" wide but it's not there all the time.

About 2 weeks ago my tv started showing a warning my bulb is getting close to the end of life.

My question is that is my TV hooped and I shouldn't buy a new bulb or is it because my bulb is going that these faint areas are happening.

thanks,

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09-05-2009, 10:35 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by CMacdonald View Post
Okay since there are some experts here I want to throw out my question if the OP doesn't mind.

Got a 42" Grand Wega LCD 2 1/2 years ago and about 6 months ago I started getting a faint red strip across the top of the screen about 4" wide. Kind of pissed me off but you don't notice it unless you are looking for it. Now sometimes it looks like I get a faint blue strip along the bottom 2" wide but it's not there all the time.

About 2 weeks ago my tv started showing a warning my bulb is getting close to the end of life.

My question is that is my TV hooped and I shouldn't buy a new bulb or is it because my bulb is going that these faint areas because my bulb is going.

thanks,
I'm pretty sure it's your bulb.

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Old
09-05-2009, 10:38 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by BlueChipper View Post
I'm pretty sure it's your bulb.
How much do those cost?

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09-05-2009, 10:41 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
How much do those cost?
I'm assuming the person didn't buy warranty because most bulbs last well over 6000 hours (Unless it went way over that).

I'd say around $300.

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09-05-2009, 10:44 AM
  #63
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It seems that Plasma has a better picture than LCD and costs less. I am wondering why they seem to be fading out of the picture? Are there reliability issues? Which of the two are more reliable? Can a Plasma be fixed?

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09-05-2009, 10:50 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
It seems that Plasma has a better picture than LCD and costs less. I am wondering why they seem to be fading out of the picture? Are there reliability issues? Which of the two are more reliable? Can a Plasma be fixed?
Most people buy LCD now a days. It's becoming the standard. Plasma is more expensive to fix from what I've seen. Plasma uses natural gases to make your picture and had better contrast/black levels.

I'm no expert at all, but from my experience, and a lot of others, LCD is the way to go.

Never had a problem in 5+ years with any of them.

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09-05-2009, 10:51 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
It seems that Plasma has a better picture than LCD and costs less. I am wondering why they seem to be fading out of the picture? Are there reliability issues? Which of the two are more reliable? Can a Plasma be fixed?
More expensive to service for the manufacturers would be high up on the list of reasons.

They also consume quite a bit more power.

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09-05-2009, 10:55 AM
  #66
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Buy a Sharp if you can afford it, they invented LCD and are still miles ahead of everyone. I got a great price at Visions and I bought the extended warranty. With Visions if you don't use the warranty you get it back in the form of a in store credit. No one else I know does that. This was a few years ago so I would confirm that before purchasing.

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09-05-2009, 10:56 AM
  #67
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Here's a forum that will answer a lot of your questions:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=14

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09-05-2009, 10:59 AM
  #68
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Buy a Sharp if you can afford it, they invented LCD and are still miles ahead of everyone. I got a great price at Visions and I bought the extended warranty. With Visions if you don't use the warranty you get it back in the form of a in store credit. No one else I know does that. This was a few years ago so I would confirm that before purchasing.
They still offer the price of the warranty back as store credit.

Again, I can't count how many people that have received new TV's by having the protection plan on it. I strongly recommend it.

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09-05-2009, 11:00 AM
  #69
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Here's a forum that will answer a lot of your questions:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=14
Or if you want the Grand Daddy of them all try

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/?styleid=18

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09-05-2009, 11:05 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Louis Cypher View Post
Buy a Sharp if you can afford it, they invented LCD and are still miles ahead of everyone. I got a great price at Visions and I bought the extended warranty. With Visions if you don't use the warranty you get it back in the form of a in store credit. No one else I know does that. This was a few years ago so I would confirm that before purchasing.
Not to be argumentative, but Sharp is not the best brand for LCD's at this time. They have lost a lot of ground recently. Sony's XBR Series for absolute pq and Samsung for value are dominating the LCD world. (Again, I own an older Sharp so I am not saying this out of spite towards the brand). But what is true is that all of these TV's are actually very good, so there is really no way to go too far wrong.


Last edited by Fourier: 09-05-2009 at 11:13 AM.
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09-05-2009, 11:08 AM
  #71
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Make sure it has a good refresh rate or else it doesn't matter how good the graphics are.

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09-05-2009, 11:24 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Ol' Jase View Post
More expensive to service for the manufacturers would be high up on the list of reasons.

They also consume quite a bit more power.
Plasmas do consume more power. But the cost differential would be minimal considering that for similar size and quality plasma is much cheaper. The service cost may also be a bit of a non-factor these days because at the rate prices drop and technology improves FP TV's are really a disposable item. It will almost always be wiser to replace an out of warrenty TV than to repare it unless the issue is extremely minor.

LCD's show much better in a big box store than do plasmas. They are naturally quite a bit brighter and tend to have more vivid colors. As such they are much easier to sell than plasmas. There is also the lingering talk of "burn-in" which is mostly a thing of the past. Plasmas still can have image retention, but this is ususally temporary and would not be noticed by most. (CRT's also had burn-in issues but it was seldom talked about back then). In contrast, LCD's suffer from motion blur, which is a killer for me when watching hockey. But this is also becoming less of an issue with LCD's as the technology is certainly improving significantly. (Though just because the refresh rate is higher does not mean you will not have motion blur. There is more to it than simply the refreshment rate.

LCD's are also easier to make in small sizes than plasma. Despite the movement to bigger tv's the market for 42"+ is still limited.

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09-05-2009, 11:29 AM
  #73
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I would wait until boxing day. It seems like new technology is coming out that will replace the LCD models out now (LED I think?) You should be able to find some good deals on LCD's, as they try to clear out stock, and make way for the new stuff...

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09-05-2009, 11:42 AM
  #74
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09-05-2009, 11:52 AM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis Cypher View Post
Buy a Sharp if you can afford it, they invented LCD and are still miles ahead of everyone. I got a great price at Visions and I bought the extended warranty. With Visions if you don't use the warranty you get it back in the form of a in store credit. No one else I know does that. This was a few years ago so I would confirm that before purchasing.
Visions still has that deal, and when I bought my TV at future shop I told them about how I could get the same TV at the same price, and that I wanted future shop to match visions protection plan deal and refund the $ money if not used and they did it.

Just make sure you know the day that your PP expires and do not call them withany questions about anything unless you know that you have a big problem and will need your TV fixed or replaced because even a phone call to ask a question counts as using your warrenty to them.

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