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Old
09-09-2009, 05:04 PM
  #26
BigHabs
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Originally Posted by Alex28 View Post
Since this board is becoming kinda stale

To WAS: McDonald, 3rd

To STL: Neuvirth, Fleischmann, Nylander

Reasoning - Eller is coming along better than expected and should probably be a regular next season, at worst the season after that. They can bridge the gap with Nylander, who should be good for 40-50 points after a change of scenery, and whose contract is cheaper next year if he completely underperforms and blues want to waive. Blues pick up a bluechip goaltending prospect who'd probably be the best goalie prospect in the system and could take over a starting job as early as next year. Fleischmann gives blues another potential sniper in addition to Boyes and a Czech mate for Neuvirth.

On the other side, the Capitals get a very fast north-south center in his prime who would be ideal under Boudreau for centering Semin. The 3rd we use to draft Berdyukov or Chernov, depending on which one is more impressive by next summer.

Flame away.

How about:

STL
Boyes,Steen, Polak

MTL
Plekanec, D'agostini, O'byrne, 1st round pick '10, 4th round pick '11

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Old
09-09-2009, 10:31 PM
  #27
BluesFan45
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Originally Posted by TK 421 View Post
He did after returning from his injury because the Blues didn't want him getting leaned on the rest of the year with the chance of reinjury. Basically the same reason Oshie didn't go back to C with his high ankle sprain. Amac will be back at center this year while Oshie will have to wait at RW with Tkachuk back for a final season.
McDonald didn't return to Center for two reasons.
1. David Backes flourished as a top 2 line Center.
2. Murray/the team was leery/timid about Andy coming back from injury.

It will be an interesting issue coming up this year. Will Backes and Berglund take the top 2 center spots and Andy shift to LW. He was very solid and dangerous on the wing vs VAncouver, just couldn't catch a break.

Most likely you see: Backes-Berglund-Tkachuk (later in teh season Oshie)-McClement as the 4 centers on the team.

That said...Andy just took a fairly reasonable extension. He has been a hair under a point per game as a Blue, can't beat that at $4.7mil per for 4 more years. There is no desire to trade Andy unless we are getting a legit, #1 Dman or top level scorer. As much as I like Green, he aint coming this way. Nor is Ovechkin...Id pass on Semin.

Blues are pretty much set rosterwise till injuries hit.

I think the Blues would want to make room for Eller, but at this point the team has gone in to "not rushing players to the NHL" mode. Eller will get to the NHL when he has forced his way there or there are injuries and he can make it in form Peoria. I think the team wants it that way.

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Old
09-10-2009, 03:27 AM
  #28
TK 421
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Originally Posted by BluesFan45 View Post
McDonald didn't return to Center for two reasons.
1. David Backes flourished as a top 2 line Center.
2. Murray/the team was leery/timid about Andy coming back from injury.


It will be an interesting issue coming up this year. Will Backes and Berglund take the top 2 center spots and Andy shift to LW. He was very solid and dangerous on the wing vs VAncouver, just couldn't catch a break.

Most likely you see: Backes-Berglund-Tkachuk (later in teh season Oshie)-McClement as the 4 centers on the team.

That said...Andy just took a fairly reasonable extension. He has been a hair under a point per game as a Blue, can't beat that at $4.7mil per for 4 more years. There is no desire to trade Andy unless we are getting a legit, #1 Dman or top level scorer. As much as I like Green, he aint coming this way. Nor is Ovechkin...Id pass on Semin.

Blues are pretty much set rosterwise till injuries hit.

I think the Blues would want to make room for Eller, but at this point the team has gone in to "not rushing players to the NHL" mode. Eller will get to the NHL when he has forced his way there or there are injuries and he can make it in form Peoria. I think the team wants it that way.
No offense, but I am absolutely the last person you should be attempting to explain organizational intent to regarding the Blues.

There isn't a reason to keep Oshie from starting the season at center other than Tkachuk being here for a final season. Therefore, it isn't any more likely that he plays there toward the end of the year than the beginning unless Walt is moved. The problem here is that AM isn't likely to play Walt at wing at any point this coming season. He prefers Walt at center and that is well established. He also prefers Oshie at C but if he'll ONLY play Walt at center, then TJ stays at RW. You're not moving Berglund or McClement so that's 3 guys who are set at C.

So that leaves 1 top 6 C spot for MacDonald, Backes and Oshie. Murray apparently wants to start the year with Backes getting the spot which leaves MacDonald and Oshie at wing. Personally I believe this is detrimental to Oshie who should be getting his minutes at C. Amac has the speed and skating to thrive at wing but Oshie doesn't. Not only that but I prefer Backes at RW putting the fear of god in opposing D men on the forecheck which he can't do from center. Backes also has the skating and speed that Oshie doesn't and he can play wing without it hurting his effectiveness. Oshie, on the other hand, has the reads and game of a center and is superior defensively to both Backes and MacDonald. Until his skating improves, he's just not as effective at wing. My arrangement of the lines makes more sense but it will be hard for Murray to resist having a 6'3,218 lb.power center mauling poor unfortunates. Believe me, I would love for TJ to get his center spot this year but I don't see it happening due to the situation. I hope he comes into camp and forces Murrays' thinking to change. AM does like him at C, but it appears Oshie will have to remind him why. As I said before, who knows how it actually shakes out with so many good options. As a Blues fan I love having this "problem".

I don't think they'll move Amac even if they do keep him at LW. He would fit perfectly as a long term replacement for Kariya.

Murrays' most recent quote from JR's article was that he'll keep the most deserving players. In Ellers' case, this means beating out Winchester for 3rd LW and I believe it is exactly this particular situation that Murray was thinking of when he said it(along with Weaver/Bell/Strachan possibly being beat out by Pietrangelo). Pietrangelo obviously has the caveat that it's either juniors or the NHL which plays into his favor. Eller gets no such luxury. The Blues are contenders right now, so obviously it makes it harder for the young guys to crack this roster.

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Old
09-10-2009, 12:10 PM
  #29
WalterSobchak
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Walt prefers to play the wing and has stated that preference repeatedly. He understood that when it was necessary (they had no one else to play the position) he'd play it. This season I see him being used there sparingly and I see him as more of the 3rd line LW/occassional PP player.

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Old
09-10-2009, 03:13 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TK 421 View Post
No offense, but I am absolutely the last person you should be attempting to explain organizational intent to regarding the Blues.

There isn't a reason to keep Oshie from starting the season at center other than Tkachuk being here for a final season. Therefore, it isn't any more likely that he plays there toward the end of the year than the beginning unless Walt is moved. The problem here is that AM isn't likely to play Walt at wing at any point this coming season. He prefers Walt at center and that is well established. He also prefers Oshie at C but if he'll ONLY play Walt at center, then TJ stays at RW. You're not moving Berglund or McClement so that's 3 guys who are set at C.

So that leaves 1 top 6 C spot for MacDonald, Backes and Oshie. Murray apparently wants to start the year with Backes getting the spot which leaves MacDonald and Oshie at wing. Personally I believe this is detrimental to Oshie who should be getting his minutes at C. Amac has the speed and skating to thrive at wing but Oshie doesn't. Not only that but I prefer Backes at RW putting the fear of god in opposing D men on the forecheck which he can't do from center. Backes also has the skating and speed that Oshie doesn't and he can play wing without it hurting his effectiveness. Oshie, on the other hand, has the reads and game of a center and is superior defensively to both Backes and MacDonald. Until his skating improves, he's just not as effective at wing. My arrangement of the lines makes more sense but it will be hard for Murray to resist having a 6'3,218 lb.power center mauling poor unfortunates. Believe me, I would love for TJ to get his center spot this year but I don't see it happening due to the situation. I hope he comes into camp and forces Murrays' thinking to change. AM does like him at C, but it appears Oshie will have to remind him why. As I said before, who knows how it actually shakes out with so many good options. As a Blues fan I love having this "problem".

I don't think they'll move Amac even if they do keep him at LW. He would fit perfectly as a long term replacement for Kariya.

Murrays' most recent quote from JR's article was that he'll keep the most deserving players. In Ellers' case, this means beating out Winchester for 3rd LW and I believe it is exactly this particular situation that Murray was thinking of when he said it(along with Weaver/Bell/Strachan possibly being beat out by Pietrangelo). Pietrangelo obviously has the caveat that it's either juniors or the NHL which plays into his favor. Eller gets no such luxury. The Blues are contenders right now, so obviously it makes it harder for the young guys to crack this roster.
Why would you move Oshie back to center and not allow him to what he does best? He wont be able to be as aggressive on the forecheck and in the offensive zone with the added defensive responsibility of being a center. Center isnt even necessarily his natural position, as he played wing his freshman year with Toews. He was on pace for well over 50 points (had he not been injured) his rookie season on the wing, why mess with success?

While Oshie isnt the fastest skater on the ice, he certainly isnt slow for a winger. And its not all about deep speed, he is very agile and can get up to top speed quickly. So the whole speed thing doesnt really worry me with Oshie.

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Old
09-11-2009, 02:49 AM
  #31
TK 421
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Originally Posted by Hustle and Flow View Post
Why would you move Oshie back to center and not allow him to what he does best? He wont be able to be as aggressive on the forecheck and in the offensive zone with the added defensive responsibility of being a center. Center isnt even necessarily his natural position, as he played wing his freshman year with Toews. He was on pace for well over 50 points (had he not been injured) his rookie season on the wing, why mess with success?

While Oshie isnt the fastest skater on the ice, he certainly isnt slow for a winger. And its not all about deep speed, he is very agile and can get up to top speed quickly. So the whole speed thing doesnt really worry me with Oshie.
Simple. I don't think that's what he does best. I want his reads and defensive game in the middle and I don't think he's near as effective at wing until he works on his skating. Not to mention he clearly prefers center and has said so on several occasions. I don't find his forecheck to be all that impressive at this juncture. David Backes on the other hand, scares the crap out of professionals on a regular basis at wing. I don't care about how many offensive opportunities Oshie gets. I care about the Blues having the strongest possible lineup and Oshie being put in the best position to take the next step forward in his career which is eventually playing center. You have to keep in mind that AM was playing him at 2nd center before his injury as a rookie.

Until his skating improves(and I've been watching closely for 4 years) he won't be as effective at wing. Of course his reads help to cover for this, but he was hesitant and clearly uncomfortable in the playoffs at wing in the offensive zone. So why was it that he was money on the backcheck, but crap on the forecheck? The hesitancy was caused by TJ knowing damn well he wasn't quick enough to get back defensively when the Nucks turned it back up ice nor was he quick enough to even pressure their D in the first place. Truly a no win situation for him. The best he could do with his skating the way it is was make sure he didn't get burned defensively. If his future is as a scoring line winger, then why did AM play him on the point of the PP? We both know it wasn't for offensive reasons. He was there solely so that we didn't get burned for a shorty. I've made my case on several occasions and have been ruminating on this particular players' flaws longer than most have known he was "going to be good" so it's difficult for me to ignore what I know in favor of just not worrying about it. This will not magically fix itself. He has to put the work in.

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